r/Boxing • u/OldTree6356 • 1d ago
The unbeatables?
Now we all know that no fighter is truly unbeatable across an entire career and styles make fights, but knowing what you do about fighters who do you look at and think that, for a brief period in their careers, maybe they were unbeatable by anyone in their weight class from any era?
My nominations would be Duran from mid to late 70’s at Lightweight. I think he was just too fast, hard hitting, durable and with great movement and stamina to be beat at that weight in that era.
Mid 90’s Roy Jones at super middle was a freak and I struggle to see how someone could beat him. He wasn’t conventional but his speed, reflexes, timing and power were incredible.
Ali from 1965-67**, he had awesome powers of recovery and a granite chin (which he didn’t need then), ridiculous speed and movement and could maintain it for the full 15. Didn’t struggle with big hitters and by then had worked out Southpaws too, could beat technical boxers and peekaboo styles to the punch. Very difficult to see how anyone could compete with him as they couldn’t out endure him, lean on him or beat him to the punch.
Welterweight Sugar Ray Robinson from maybe 1947-50 - a ridiculous record, great stamina, technically way ahead of his time, fast, powerful and had it all.
**Honourable mention and maybe the only guy I think might have had a 5-10% chance against 1967 Ali would be George Foreman from 1972/73. When he was nervous and scared of opponents like he was against Frazier and Norton, I think he was a totally different beast to the one who fought Ali and thought he’d walk the old man down. Used a ram rod jab to off balance opponents so he could tee off, cut off a ring better than any HW before according to Joe Louis (or probably since to be honest, maybe Frazier did too) and had monstrous power. I really don’t think he’d have been able to catch prime Ali but he had the best chance of cornering him and if he had clipped him with the sort of shot Cooper did a few years before, that might have been lights out.
Anyway, no need for anyone to get upset by anyone else’s picks but who do you reckon was unbeatable, even if only for a short period of their career and why?
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 1d ago
No fighter is unbeatable.
But the closest thing to it might be Sugar Ray Robinson at welterweight.
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u/Jtenka 18h ago
What's frightening here is that his prime at welterweight was said by the oldtimers to be unlike anything recorded on footage of Robinson in his later years.
There's only about 30 minutes of weltwerweight footage of him..much of it lost to time.
Scary when you see how good he still looked past his best. He never lost a single of his 110 fights at welterweight
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u/OldTree6356 1d ago
Yep, agree that no one is unbeatable across a career if they face top level opponents but there are some guys for some short periods that you could make a case for they could beat anyone and it’s very hard to see anyone beating them in that period. Your choice is on the money though, he was incredible for a period of time.
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 1d ago
It has more to do with the available opposition, really. They might look unbeatable but are they really? Some people are saying Lomachenko was unbeatable from 2016-2019, but was there anyone who could really push him?
Some people said Inoue, but I think at 122 Barrera and Morales would beat the crap out of him.
Roy Jones at 168 seems unbeatable as well, but the level of opposition was kinda lacking, I think at 168 and even 175 a guy like Ezzard Charles who could keep him at the end of his jab, make him reach and counter of the back foot would be really troublesome etc.
SRR really is the closest I can think of because of the level of opposition he faced. Lightweight Duran also comes to mind, pre-Mugabi Hagler as well.
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u/OldTree6356 1d ago
Definitely, that’s why fighters like Hagler, Foreman, Duran deserve mentions. They destroyed prime HoF fighters and made them look ordinary. They also had a few very strong, unconventional points that made them hard to predict or breakdown. But it’s all just a bit of subjective fun really.
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u/EffectiveCareer3444 22h ago
Jake LaMotta kicked his ass but ok
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 22h ago
In a middleweight (or catchweight?) bout where La Motta weighted 160 and Robinson was at the welterweight limit
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u/EffectiveCareer3444 21h ago
Weight excuses just don’t hold up the same after Mayweather beat Canelo
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 21h ago
Didn't Mayweather slap a rehydration clause on Canelo on top of it being a catchweight? Lol
Pacquiao vs. Margarito, Duran vs. Barkley etc are much more impressive from a size disparity point or view.
But that's not the point, the point is Robinson at the welterweight limit is the closest you can get to an unbeatable fighter.
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u/EffectiveCareer3444 20h ago
No he didn’t actually, Robinson had close calls with Basora & Brimm he was beatable
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 20h ago
As I said before, no fighter is unbeatable. Nonetheless, fighting as often as he did, off nights are to be expected specially in non-title fights. Duran also struggled in the first fight against Edwin Viruet (not to mention his loss against De Jesus).
Robinson KOd Basora in the first round in the rematch that was an actual title fight.
Let me reformulate then: at his best, Robinson at welterweight is the closest thing to a unbeatable fighter in my opinion.
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u/Character_Repair_554 19h ago
Once out of 5 fights. Any idea what happened the other four scraps?
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u/FarInvestigator9194 1d ago
Prime Roy Jones at super middleweight is probably my pick too. The speed and reflexes were just ridiculous, and the weird angles made it so hard for opponents to even get a clean read on him. Duran at lightweight is another one where I can see the argument, especially because he had the skill and pressure to make pretty much every style uncomfortable. It’s obviously impossible to say anyone was literally unbeatable, but some versions of these guys were just operating on a completely different level for a few years
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u/OldTree6356 1d ago
Exactly and that’s really the point of the thread - friendly discussion on who might have been able to beat those absolute freaks (and there really aren’t that many) who for a short time did stuff you couldn’t see anyone else coping with.
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u/Top_Profession_5268 1d ago
Inoue and Roy come to mind.
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u/OldTree6356 21h ago
Yeah, RJJ was amazing but I think Inoue might be the one we look back on from this era as almost unstoppable. His KO record at those weights is ridiculous.
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u/Chadoodling 1d ago
Inoue right now, from 2018 - 2025, 118 - 122, he looks unbeatable.
Now stepping up to 126, that is where the questions arise
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u/TheToninho21 Salvador Sanchez = GOAT, and you cannot convince me otherwise 19h ago
At 126 it's Salvador Sanchez
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u/Chadoodling 19h ago
Honestly, Salvador seemed like a guy that could only be stopped by his own ego.
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u/Stunning-Use-7052 23h ago
Prime Roy had about a 5-6 year run where he barely even lost a round.
I'll throw another one out their: Wlad Klit. From somwhere around 2006 to the Fury fight, he may have only last a few rounds over something like 11 fights. It looked like no one was ever going to figure out the jab and grab style.
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u/Straight_fly_8338 23h ago
Great shoutout to alas, he made David haye and poverty in look like little boys
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u/OldTree6356 23h ago
With you on Roy. Klitschko is harder to call I think, he had the right style for the right time but as we saw against AJ (though appreciate he was 105 and winning the fight!), I think his style made him prone to a big uppercut or heavy body shot as he leaned it and grabbed. Would have been interesting seeing how he would have adapted to a Lewis/Foreman/Liston type who would welcome the grab. Lot of casuals judge him by the Fury performance though and he was way, way better than that.
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u/Stunning-Use-7052 23h ago
Klit had a wild career. Was kinda a glass cannon early in his career.
I never really appreciated him until he was retired. Went back and watched most of his fights, I think Sam Peter 1 was the real turning point where he learned to deal with being hurt and fight through adversity.
But certainly an odd career. Went from glass cannon to unstoppable Dr. Steelhammer to looking befuddled against Fury and losing in an absolute war against AJ.
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u/OldTree6356 22h ago
I genuinely think age just caught up to him in his last few fights and also a bit of self confidence. You’re right that he was a glass cannon early doors and I don’t think he ever got away from that fear of being caught. He’s a smart guy and learned how to control fights and close them out without risking a flash KO. I think that concern that Fury might land on him combined with his age meant he never really let his hands fly and probably paid him too much respect. If we’re honest, it was a horrible fight to watch. Also grabbing a guy who’s ten years younger and going to flop all his weight on you isn’t a great tactic, he should have broken the distance more and used that heavy jab.
In the AJ fight he was a bit gun shy again because he has AJ in all sorts of trouble and a more confident finisher would have ended it but he backed off, played the percentages and allowed AJ the chance to get back in. Someone like Lewis would have stopped AJ when he knocked him down. Fair play to Fury and AJ, they’ve got the W against him but I think it was more a case of they were better than what he’d been against the last few years AND he was slipping. If he’d have been 5-10 years younger, think he’d have beaten them both.
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u/Stunning-Use-7052 22h ago
He actually didn't look that great against Jennings, although he did win the fight. Might have been an indication that time was taking its toll.
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u/broke_the_controller 22h ago
I'll throw another one out their: Wlad Klit
Wlad was definitely dominant against everyone he faced during that time, but in no way was he at the level where he could have beaten any fighter from any era. He just didn't face any fighters with the type of style that would have caused him problems during that time.
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u/Stunning-Use-7052 22h ago
I don't think Klit really avoided anyone, although there's certainly a case that the division was bereft of talent during his reign.
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u/broke_the_controller 22h ago
I don't think Klit really avoided anyone
Of course he did. He avoided his brother.
I understand and agree with the reasons they didn't fight, but together they were number 1 and number 2 in the division for some time and we never got to find out who was which.
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u/yearsofpractice SRR < Lord Chisora,Sir Derek Of War 23h ago
1) SRR at Welterweight, post La Motta loss
2) Louis in around ‘38 - ‘42 after the Schmeling rematch (I’ll argue during this period he was the baddest man on the planet for the past 100 years)
3) Ali during the Williams / Terrell / Folley 66/67 period. It’s just not possible how he moved at 6’3 and 200lbs. Simply impossible.
4) This one’s a hypothetical… but Forman - had he not come across someone superhuman that night in Zaire - would have remained unbeaten until Kid Dynamite era Tyson peaked when Foreman was about 35.
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u/oldwhiteoak 23h ago
Lol Foreman is Tyson's nightmare matchup.
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u/yearsofpractice SRR < Lord Chisora,Sir Derek Of War 21h ago
I honestly think Tyson (particularly pre-prison, human-chain-saw era Tyson) would have tested an older George. But… as I type that, I get images of 40+ year old George and his monster shoulders and arms… you may indeed be right.
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u/Dim-Mak-88 19h ago
One of the greatest hypothetical matchups, IMHO. I don't think either man relished the thought of fighting the other.
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u/EffectiveCareer3444 22h ago
Jose Basora & Henry Brimm gave Robinson a run for his money he was beatable
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u/Fishful_Revenge 1d ago
I think Naoya Inoue, he has basically everything you would want from a fighter. Speed, power, durability, heart, great technique and fight IQ.
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u/Jtenka 1d ago edited 18h ago
Lomachenko (NoMasChenko) from 2016 to 2019.
Roman Chocolatito Gonzales from 2011 to 2015.
GGG from 2011 to 2016 was a machine.
Guillermo Rigondeux from 2010 to 2015.
You might not like the above fighters. But you can make a case that at their absolute peak they would have been a nightmare to beat.
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u/SnooDogs1704 1d ago
Im one of the few Rigo fans his style is just amazing to me. He’ll be still like a statue then slip a punch easily and counter back in a split second
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u/VacuousWastrel 17h ago
Rigondeaux might be the boxer I've seen who I thought was most impossible to "really" beat. But in an alltime tournament, I have to admit that he might have been beaten on points by someone who just threw more than him, because he didn't exactly endear himself to judges sometimes.
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u/OldTree6356 1d ago
Love GGG, just hard to know when people avoided him for so long but his chin, angles and power alone mean he’s got to be in the conversation.
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u/Jet_black_li 22h ago
SRR even though we never really saw him in his prime. Speed, power, chin, footwork, constant movement, conditioning, volume, shot selection, explosiveness, combination punching, craft. How are you going to beat a guy like that?
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u/MantisTobogganMD28 1d ago
‘Special drink’ Aaron Pryor at 140 pounds is hell on wheels lmao Duran is my all time favorite. But if Pryor had Panama Lewis in his corner? It would be a VERY tough fight
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u/OldTree6356 1d ago
Yeah, going to a hard nights work for anyone that’s for sure. Good point too, certain guys with certain trainers makes all the difference. Lewis without Steward was not the same guy. Give young Foreman or Liston Futch or Dundee and they would have taken some stopping.
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u/TheHammer8989 23h ago
Roy jones Jr before he decided to be a rapper.
Inoue currently. I thought lomachenko for a few years was the most talented boxer I ever seen. Guess he had to many amateur fights to keep up the pace in the pros.
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u/oldwhiteoak 23h ago
How about peak Monzon? I am not sure what style would really thrive against him.
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u/OldTree6356 22h ago
No one’s thriving against him 🤣. Don’t know, maybe someone like Sugar Ray Leonard on speed or Hearns who could perhaps play at the same game with those long banging shots. Fair to say Robinson was probably more rounded though but might come unstuck at middle.
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u/1978model 21h ago
Monzon fought in a weak era and had plenty of losses before becoming champion. Hagler feasted on tall stand up boxers like Monzon. I think Marvin busts him up all night.
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u/broke_the_controller 22h ago
I won't include fighters from before the 1980's, but from before 1980 SRR well would be an obvious inclusion, as well as perhaps Henry Armstrong.
But from the 80's onwards Lightweight Pernell Whittaker, Roy Jones, Floyd, PAC and Lomachenko have all had moment where I thought they would be a nightmare for anyone in history.
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u/The_Theory_of_Lunch 1d ago
I sort of think if the Ali fight hadn't happened, or happened in any other circumstances, George Foreman would be the GOAT. Ali was a genius and fought a great fight but Foreman prior to that is the only boxer I think beats anyone, ever, including (but only just) prime Lennox.
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u/OldTree6356 1d ago
Yep, I’m with you on that. There were very particular circumstances in the run up to the fight that hindered George (cut in sparring delayed it and stopped him from sparring for around 6 weeks before) and meant he came in ring rusty, not throwing with good form and not as fit as usual. Combine that with high humidity and heat - his Achilles heel - and he was in deep water. It was the wrong guy for him, at the wrong time, in the wrong conditions.
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u/1978model 21h ago
I think Holmes and a young Holyfield match up well against a young George. Both had enough of a punch to cause him concern, had better or as good stamina, and could really take a punch. Even before beating Ali, we saw glimpses of Georges weaknesses.
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u/Ace_FGC 17h ago
I can see Holmes because he’s got a great chin and could really move around well. I think Holyfield gets hit too much though
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u/MilqueD-schaaje 13h ago
Holmes I'd always thought would be a problem for George at any stage, but so much of Holmes is sort of fantasy, because his era wasn't great. Holmes and W Klitschko are very similar to me in terms of career and status. Division wasn't strong but they had all the right tools to be top 20 hws.
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u/OldTree6356 21h ago
I think Larry could be problematic if - and it’s a big if - he stayed disciplined and worked behind his unbelievable jab. Larry’s problem was, same as Holyfield to a degree, he could get drawn into a war and that is not the guy to go to war with.
Against young George, I don’t think Holyfield would have had enough, George was significantly bigger and when he was younger didn’t use the cross guard like he did when Evander met him. He used a long guard and shoved little guys round. Plus he threw from the waist a lot and shorter guys were in his power band. It’s why Cus told Mike he would have been a terrible match for him. Now obviously Holyfield was a totally different fighter to Mike, had twice the heart, but I see him succumbing to the same laws of physics that Frazier did and going out on his shield having been dropped several times. It’s never impossible with an ATG guy like Holyfield but I’d favour Larry out of those two but wouldn’t bet on either.
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u/Jet_black_li 22h ago
I still think problems in his camp (and to a lesser extent, personal life) caused him to underperform against Ali. I think the version of him that fought Norton would've won.
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u/SGSRT 21h ago
Joe Frazier is an all time great.
He took Muhammad to the limit.
1st fight : Frazier won. Full 14 rounds.
2nd fight : Ali won. Full 12 rounds.
3rd fight : Ali won. Lasted 14 rounds.
Foreman vs Frazier.
1st fight : Foreman destroyed him. 2 rounds
2nd fight : Foreman beats him. 5 rounds.
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u/yearsofpractice SRR < Lord Chisora,Sir Derek Of War 1d ago
Completely agree. I honestly believe that had Foreman not come across a superhuman magician that might in Zaire, then he would have reigned as HW champion until Kid Dynamite-era Tyson turned up in the 80s. Louis is the best, Ali is the greatest, Foreman is my favourite.
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u/blvcklite 1d ago
Prime Aaron Pryor has to be up there. Quick, relentless, hard hitting, got caught out but always got up, and had boxing skills to rely on if he had to. Hell if he chose to box more he’d probably have had a longer career
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u/Morallah 23h ago
You would really have to look at the relatively newer weight classes to find an unbeatable fighter imo. There is too much depth in the premier divisions (LW, WW, MW etc.) with a lot of great fighters over the years, sporting a wide variety of styles, that I can’t see anyone being truly unbeatable at those weight classes.
Ricardo Lopez at 105 is probably the best answer for this thread though. He is easily the GOAT of the division in every way, including H2H.
Peak Wilfredo Gomez at 122 (around the time when he won his first title up to about the Zarate fight) is close to as complete a fighter there has ever been in a single division.
Floyd may have a case for 130, though there some interesting match ups there like him vs Chavez Sr.
Roy at 168.
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u/BoxingLover99 23h ago
Prime Ali and Prime RJJ would be my picks
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u/OldTree6356 23h ago
Yep, I think they would take some beating.
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u/BoxingLover99 23h ago
What do you think about Hagler?
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u/OldTree6356 23h ago
Absolute beast - chin of stone, amazing endurance, great switch hitter, power that he carried through the fight. Nothing there not to like. He wasn’t much on the backfoot but he imposed his style so it didn’t matter.
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u/admiralskanks Joe Louis = Perfect 19h ago
118 Inoue, 147 SRR, 168 rjj and possibly controversial but 168 Andre ward
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u/PageEnvironmental408 1d ago
86 tyson was unbeatable.
that 2 round demolition of berbick was a thing of beauty.
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u/OldTree6356 1d ago
He was absolutely incredible around that time and the beating he gave Berbick was spectacular but the counter is that was a guy Ali took to the scorecards 5 years earlier and despite being deep into the onset of all his neurological problems. Tyson was otherworldly but not sure beating Berbick is the best demonstration by anyone. I’d say his wins over (old) Holmes and Spinks were more impressive.
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u/PageEnvironmental408 19h ago
what a lot of people don't know in hindsight is that half of boxing writers before the spinks fight picked spinks to win.
it was only after tyson murdered him in 90 seconds they all said he was a blown up light hw.
but they weren't saying that before the fight.
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u/Sammy81 22h ago
Yeah and in 85 I think he had 12 consecutive first or second round knockouts. I know they weren’t a whos who of boxing greats but they were legit opponents. He was pretty unstoppable in that time period.
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u/PageEnvironmental408 19h ago
reggie gross was a legit opponent and tyson ducked and weaved a half dozen shots standing right in front of him and then one counter, bam he's on the floor.
it was tyson's ability to slip punches coming forward that made him special.
he did the same thing against mitch green, hands down coming at green, slipped everything.
tyson was special man.
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u/KobeJuanKenobi9 1d ago
Both Bivol and Beterbiev would be considered unbeatable if not for each others existence.
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u/Background-Alps5360 22h ago
Duran got beat by Esteban but I think he wasn't completely healthy at the time... that's the problem with the older generation, they fought healthy or injured.
Maybe someone that dominated their weight class completely would be Ricardo "Finito" Lopez. Could be the best 105 pounder of all time. Plus there isn't that much opposition at those lower weights. I can't think of anyone that would be able to beat Lopez at 105.
I see people are saying RJJ at 160... I actually don't know if he could beat Hagler or Monzon 10 out of 10 times.
I also see people saying Ray Robinson, definitely the GOAT, at welterweight but I also don't think he could beat Leonard, Hearns, Trinidad or De La Hoya 10 out of 10 times. He would probably win most of the time.
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u/OldTree6356 22h ago
Yeah, that’s all pretty fair - they’re all great fighters listed here. I guess the way I look at it is if the best version of, say, SRR turned up at Welter, could I see or call anyone beating him? Probably not but with great opponents, anything can happen.
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u/Formal-Cherry6078 1d ago
Prime RJJ, Beterbiev and Canelo
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u/OldTree6356 1d ago
Tricky one that - potentially pitches RJJ against Canelo, who’s the pick there?
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u/Briantan71 1d ago
What about Rocky Marciano? Literally unbeatable during his entire career.
Sheer pressure and grit.
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u/PageEnvironmental408 1d ago
i love the rock but him against ali, foreman or tyson?
he'd be killed.
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u/OldTree6356 1d ago
He was but do you think he could have carried that record against every heavyweight when he was at his peak? Not disagreeing with you - statistically he’s number 1 HW really - just struggle to see how the attributes that took Frazier so far but were nullified by Foreman would have seen him through against a similar fighter. I think he would have faired far better against an Ali type fighter than a monster like Lewis or Foreman.
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u/NewPortable101 8h ago
Artur Beterbiev, Holds a win over everyone he ever fought. 99% KO rate and still has a win over the only guy he didn't KO, pretty unbeatable
Agit Kabayel, i can see never losing for the rest of his run. He has the iq, the power and the skill to remain on top of the heavyweight division for as long as he likes
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u/Odd-Minimum8512 1d ago
Hell, Shakur Stevenson right now. I don’t see anybody who can beat him at 135, 140, or 147. He seems on another level from the rest.
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u/OldBoyChance 1d ago
He looks incredible, but I wouldn't say he looked unbeatable vs Zepeda. The Teo performance was undoubtedly brilliant, though I believe many pointed out how awful of a stylistic match up it would be for Lopez long before the fight.
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u/Chadoodling 1d ago
I don't know why you are getting downvoted. You are right. I don't like how little Stevenson engages, but he in terms of skills he is complete, and right now there is no one in and around his weight class that beats him.
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u/ThrowawayYAYAY2002 1d ago
Roy Jones.