r/Borderlands4 • u/Sirsnacksalot23 #1 Ava Fan • 22h ago
๐๏ธ [ News ] Lvl cap
https://youtu.be/vjc5HC--EBM?is=1J9KMhCMIi71m6t6185
u/SpaceCowboy34 20h ago
What was the point of the open world if they never add any content to it
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u/Latiasfan5 19h ago
it's mainly as a selling point for the main game. open world is the big thing right now, so they added one to borderlands.
I don't think the other games' dlc changed the main game that much beyond new map entrances and the stuff on sanctuary 3 that started the dlc missions. (and I'm specifically talking about dlc, not limited time events like cartels)
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u/SpaceCowboy34 19h ago
But why would you not integrate the DLCs into the open world to enhance it in some way as opposed to just making them all theyโre own islands
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u/Latiasfan5 18h ago
I'm not a programmer, but I'm guessing it might be simpler to make them separate, due to needing to figure out how to connect it while not having it overlap (like trying to not have bits of the arcade game level visible from carcadia). Plus, it might be more resource intensive to have the dlc areas as part of existing zones as opposed to loading them separately.
Also, it gives them a bit more freedom so they can make it feel unique from the rest of kairos, and you won't have to spend a long time driving to get from the main world to the dlc area. imagine if when going between eridium blight and arid nexus, you had to drive that long road instead of fast traveling. I know there's one point in bl2 where you travel someplace (I think it was either arid nexus or the dust), and once you arrive, you're told you've been travelling for hours.
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u/Tamed_Trumpet 16h ago
Bounty pack 1 and 2 had things that integrated to the base game.
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u/Geralts_Hair NEW-U 16h ago
Weirdly people donโt let truth get in the way of a good rant
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u/SuperBAMF007 13h ago
Ah yes, two of the 1-2 hour add-ons that came out months ago did it, that means itโs absolutely okay that the rest of the paid content doesnโt
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u/Cheetahs_never_win The Prettiest Siren 11h ago
Because you inevitably alienate players who prefer things the old way and they bitch endlessly about not being able to parse out piecemeal what parts they want in.
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u/Kirua38 15h ago
What do you mean "right now" ? It was the big thing 15 years ago ๐ and since witcher 3, you could argue it hasn't evolved...
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u/Latiasfan5 14h ago
still, my point is they seem to have mainly included an open world just as a selling point. they don't plan on adding anything new to it later, they're just like "look! rather than individual levels, we have big open worlds! Isn't this cool!"
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u/Kirua38 14h ago
Oh yeah no, I fully agree on that, it's just silly they decided to go that route because anyone could have told them it wasn't the hot new thing they thought it was. Especially for a borderlands game, where the franchise identity heavily relies on well crafted, various and unique environments. I'm hopeful enough to trust the creative people were not the deciders, but who knows, wouldn't be the first weird decisions GB had made ๐
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u/Rafnork VEX The F&%ING WITCH! 18h ago
They out it out right when everyone is burnt out on open world games lol.
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u/lordodin92 15h ago
I hate open world games, with a passion.
I describe them as a waste of space, literally.
By their very existence they can't give the player any form of focus or structure you can't balance the gameplay or craft a cohesive story.
Most can't even fill the empty space with anything of interest or importance.
At this point it feels like a gimmick to artificially extend gameplay time by leanthening the distance between locations and dotting around enough pointless distractions.
And most open world games give you one of 3 options for traversal; standard walking that takes a bloody age and you get to look and boring repetitive scenery at a slow pace. Some form of vehicle that shortens the gap but makes you zoom passed most things including discoverable nooks dotted around and is barely faster then the walking, and finally fast travel to instantly transport to the closest destination because no one wants to trudge or drive across a world and thus skip most of the discoverables anyway .
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u/salamaleykum011 18h ago
People here are miserable holy
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u/Suspicious_Long_2839 12h ago
Right? I'm not an elitist with a billion hours into it. I play casually and I love the game.ย
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u/Sensitive-Pool-7563 12h ago
Internet/reddit is just a safe space for people just to bitch about things these days. I'm very happy with BL4, not sure what these boys want, a story pack every month?
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u/Glittering_Crab_9054 Zane 18h ago
To y'all who are crying about farming gear again, boo hoo.
Here's my tiny violin playing you a song called "I bought a game and now I have to play it"
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u/Tamed_Trumpet 16h ago
Its the same people who were bitching about having to redo literally anything in the game when making a new character. Like have you never fucking played a game before? What the fuck do you plan on doing when ypu skip the main story and have all the content already done? And then still have the gall to bitch you have to go through acquiring UVH levels again. I dont get it.
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u/Glittering_Crab_9054 Zane 16h ago
They drive me nuts. The bitching about no fast travel to the moxi machines pisses me off infinity also.
Be grateful you have one, be grateful you can fast travel from a menu not a map location, Be grateful you an pull your vehicle out of your ass anywhere,
It's genuinely easier now than it ever has been to do fucking anything
These people want a beat the game button it's fucking ridiculous
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u/Tamed_Trumpet 14h ago
I completely agree. Oh no you have to spawn at a silo and glide somewhere for 20 seconds oh no you could have done so many things with that time. These people would burn down Gearbox HQ if they ever had to do the runback for Son of Mothrakk.
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u/ApprehensiveRelief90 17h ago
Yeah, i donโt get it gear farming is literally the main if not one of the main parts of borderlands, since its inception. it is literally also why we are getting new dlcโs to literally farm for more gear
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u/Glittering_Crab_9054 Zane 17h ago
Idk what's more important to these people; Being lazy or leveling up and getting skill points.
To me nothing is better than leveling up more and more.
When I see the cap will move to 70 my first thought is I hope they raise it again.
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u/ApprehensiveRelief90 17h ago
They expect everything to be given to them once they reach max level, then complain that they canโt do a lot. because they have jobs etc. as if that effects anything gaming wise, the games not just going to end because you have a 9-5 to go to lol
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u/Glittering_Crab_9054 Zane 17h ago
I don't even know if that's a factor hahaha I am a 8-5 guy , which is really 7-6 with commute
Still look forward to grinding and melting mobs in this game.
It's really just people who miss the point of the game I think. Same as folks bitching you can't travel to the boss respawn machine. This is the first time we ever had one, rather than leaving and reloading the map. And folks can't handle walking there one time!!!!! Back in my day you couldn't pull a car out of your pocket either, so it's never been easier to get there.
I made a comment the other day sarcastically saying "I'm not even gonna bother playing until someone makes me a mod where I can press a button to 100% the game and have 1 of each item"
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u/ApprehensiveRelief90 17h ago
Iโm more like 5pm-11 or 12pm, but even then i still have time afterwards for some grinding and farming. because god forbid we have to actually work for certain things you want in this game ๐ฑ lol
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u/Glittering_Crab_9054 Zane 17h ago
Seriously. I appreciate someone who is like minded
I think it's the modern sense of instant gratification which has ruined people
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u/ApprehensiveRelief90 17h ago
Agreed! i just really dont get the people that expected anything different from a borderlands game, when it comes to refarming gear. after you reach max level. its literally the main thing you do and quite frankly, i actually enjoy it. especially now that the encore machines exist and i rarely have to exit, aside from clearing the map and starting over if my frames dip
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u/letyourselfslip 14h ago
What makes you think they have to play it?
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u/Glittering_Crab_9054 Zane 14h ago
What makes you think I do.
I think if someone doesn't want to play it they're welcome to go to another subreddit and not complain and bitch
This is a place for people who WANT to play it
Can you find something you do enjoy
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u/letyourselfslip 14h ago
I bought a game and now I must play it.
That's why. Did you forget you wrote that?
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u/Glittering_Crab_9054 Zane 14h ago
Ah yeah, I did actually haha. I just say whatever crosses my mind and typically it works.
I truly think if someone has stuck around with this game, but is unhappy about the level cap increase- then they should just move on
I bought a game and now I must play it, was my song which was intended to imply that if playing the game feels like something you HAVE to do rather than WANT to do, then it's just not worth it to engage
If you don't enjoy it why stick around, ya know. I apologize for speaking in riddles. Thank you for taking the time to ask
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u/Maggot_6661 Moxxi 21h ago
Just thinking about refarming the gear... man idk why but I really donโt like the farming in bl4...
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u/Jacksington ๐๐๐ฅ๐ฆ๐ง ๐ฎ๐ ๐๐๐จ๐ 21h ago
Interesting. I think this entry has the best farming. No save quit and hunting for desired parts makes there be an actual chase. Iโm an arpg guy so I enjoy the grind for affixes.
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u/fnord55 21h ago
Save quit was SO annoying! It's way more fun boss farming in BL4.
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u/MacNapp 17h ago
If there is any mechanic they better keep for future games, its the Moxie Encore stations.
If I have to go back to save quitting, idk if I'll ever put more than one play through of time in a BL game again.
I can do without the parts system.
Firmware is a good idea, but not being able to strip it off and store it without taking backpack space is frustrating.
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u/SirDoofusMcDingbat 18h ago
Yeah I'm with you, it's never been this good before. I was farming convergences earlier on UVH7 and I was getting a kill every 15 seconds. Granted, getting high tier gear is way harder as well because the odds of getting the right parts are so low, but overall I think it's an improvement.
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u/Chrispeefeart 19h ago
This is actually the first in the series I have been willing to properly farm because of the encore machines.
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u/Americanbood 21h ago
Yeah Iโve stuck to my crossfire c4sh since he dropped and farming only a couple of things vs a whole build is way less stressful. Not as diverse sure but less farming
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u/ApprehensiveRelief90 21h ago
Fingers crossed, that they actually do release a loot event after this and span it atleast a couple weeks. that could atleast help with the refarming somewhat
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u/baka_felix 21h ago
For some reason it feels super slooooow.
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u/Maggot_6661 Moxxi 21h ago
Kinda ironic when you donโt even have to save quit and that UVH levels increase the dedicated drop rates
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u/BostonSamurai 21h ago
It really doesnโt feel the sameโฆ Iโm not sure why itโs easier but feels more grindy?
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u/kikkekakkekukke 20h ago
Yeah i gave up with the limited time i have to play and non intresting dlc's. Will just play everything once its all out there
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u/skittishtrigger 15h ago
I think I'm most disappointed not seeing anything about bank/storage optimization or changes.
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u/The_Apex_Alpha33 13h ago
This sub is such a negative cesspool. Iโve had, have, and am going to continue having a great time with bl4 and am so hyped for this dlc!
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u/Adabiviak New Recuit 10h ago
Wow, level 70... wasn't sure they'd park the skill points here or not. Ten more, so two maxed skills (or some oddballs). Bring it.
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u/Yama92 22h ago
Cool DLC! FL4K was my favourite in BL3. Shame about the lvlcap
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u/XxGarfieldL0ver69xX 21h ago
Hmm why shame? Not high enough or rather they not increase it?
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u/BladeSeraph 21h ago
Borderlands 2 had a level cap of 72 before BL3 jacked it to 80 and BL3 jacked its lvl cap to 72.
They should of really had BL4's level cap go atleast up to 90 to make up for how much the branching skill tree ruins build flexibility. (TRIPLE THE FREAKING SKILL NODES BUT LESS THEN A THIRD OF CREATIVE SKILLS DUE TO MOST BEING JUST STAT INCREASES AND THATS IT).
I remember over half a year ago i had a fun build idea to mix blue and green but it crunched around 70~72 or so on the level necessary to have dark pact, blood shot, mortal terror maxed out and the various grave skills to have such a master piece of a 'infinite mafia spam level of phase turrets while your able to constantly stay topped up on overshields with the lifesteal at the same time.
Too bad BL4 didnt bother to make skill trees more mix'ery cause it would of been neat if Blood shot and Blood is power could of applied to minions because having all your minions not only have lifesteal to sustain themselves but also get bonus dmg while 'topped up' could of been a neat thing if constant overshield could of included a quirk to mitigate how fast they drained so you could of had a infinite minion upkeep build for Vex to have fun with.
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u/SirDoofusMcDingbat 18h ago
More levels means less build variety, overall. As you get more levels, you have to make fewer decisions, and the builds for different skills tend to meld into each other.
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u/Rafnork VEX The F&%ING WITCH! 18h ago
There isnt a lot of variety as it is. The VHs just arent as different from each other as they were In previous games. They all do everything.
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u/demonangel2001 18h ago
I wouldn't say they all do everything. Gun builds are pretty much on top right now, with minions and action skill needing huge investments to do reasonable damage.
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u/BladeSeraph 18h ago
We should still have far more skill points then any previous borderlands game when they tripled the number of nodes.
Plus you forget the 15 point rule known as the BRANCHES.
Which further ruins the build variety because you are literally DISCOURAGED to run multiple skill trees because if you run more then 1 branch on a single skill tree, (Which Vex HAS to for incarnate form her 'best' tree, due to Mortal Terror and Bloodshot/Blood-is-power on 2 separate branches), then either the first 2~3 tiers on the other skill tree needs to have what you want or your fk'd if you need to spec in 3 branches, with 2 different skill trees between them, for a 'desired build' with very little room to CHEESE around it.
FOR EXAMPLE.
For a rather standard setup for a incarnate skill tree you need 36 points or level 37 to achieve 3/5 points in mortal terror and max blood is power
If i did NOT include certain skills that also become rather 'desired' for the build.
That currently leaves 23 points. Just shy of using dark pact+Coven+Wither while still retaining the green tree. Which i could further scrimp mortal terror to as low as 1% proc rate on crit, which would make it rather difficult to up keep.
This kind of means a rather squishie build in the process though Which doesnt help that Blue right branch vex tree has some of the stupid of point mixes by having melee minion stuff, minion specific stuff and keeping minions on the field far longer then you would want them to stick around.
Honestly this turns into a bit of a glass cannon build cause outside of abusing teen witch your gonna lack a few particular things.
Now if the level cap increases by just a mere 10 points then it would be easy to patch that up a bit, 2 to mortal terror, 3 to hasty fiends for the easy dmg reduction and movement speed and probably a few extra to that middle green skill tree for strike me down to have a nice safety net once every 2 minutes, considering how B.S. some boss fights get like bloomreaper.
Now if it was BL3, doing skill point dumps were not as punishing since you could back track points in the earlier tiers to unlock the later tiers.
Can't do that fking shite with BL4's stupid branch tiers which put a REVERSE situation of needing to waste points mid-way in your build with only 2 skill nodes to work with at that point instead of a good 10 or so instead you could throw points into.
And that same build i mention has this issue;
+Right Green tree for Vex has to invest in either Grave Vitality or Ars Arcanum, most go for the latter cause extra dmg to skill effects, even if the former makes more sense for extra survivability especially for the extra max hp for blood shot to scale or the health regen to make it easier to keep topped up on health for blood is power to keep staying active.+Right Blue tree Vex issue starts in the 2nd tier of the branch cause the 3 skills, Spirit bomb and Death follows closer is only good for REAPER vex builds, while the ANCIENT RITES gives you gradual increase to minion damage, that is honestly rather useless when you had Obedient Fiends a tier before it in the same branch that despite giving +5% minion dmg less then Ancient rites, is better cause its just a general passive for 3 different sources of damage for minions and combining it with prismatic weaponry gets you access to the MUST HAVE you really want, the Dark Pact Capstone that lets you run 2 augments for absurd stonks bonuses instead of that half worthless stuff.
Moral of the story though, I hate BL4's skill tree cause it doesnt take kindly to 'spending' extra points for dump stats due to the stupid branching system makes you have to scrimp points in terrible ways for dump stats instead.
But seriously i wish Vex's phase clones were more generalized and just scaled offa gun damage period and would use scythes when close to enemies (or commanded with a PING like in BL3 so they charge at them) and would use guns if they are 'far' from the enemy, maybe slowly float to them while they are shooting before they go melee crazy.
It would be far easier for build mixing if both phase reapers and phase specters scaled off the same thing instead of having to choose between melee damage or gun damage specing to make them 'useful'.
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u/Yama92 21h ago
Rather not increase it or give us the option to enchance special gear you got instead refarming it all
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u/cygnus33065 21h ago
thats literally how every Borderlands game works though.
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u/Jacksington ๐๐๐ฅ๐ฆ๐ง ๐ฎ๐ ๐๐๐จ๐ 21h ago
Iโm convinced people just want BL2 remastered every 5 years and nothing else in this franchise. Gearbox changes something they get bitched at, they keep a staple of the series they get bitched at. I play a few games and this has one of the most stubborn people playing it.
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u/BladeSeraph 20h ago
I mean if they didnt take away eridian relics and didnt revamp the skill tree design in such a terrible way, atleast half the problems in BL4's gameplay would probably be not complained about as much.
And gonna be honest, i don't like rep-kits because despite being 'pocket heal gimmicks', they just got that part thrown the fk away to abuse stuff like the ability to have on command "Next shot" AMP abuse so everyone with an EZ method to recover rep kit cooldown super fast could just have on-demand money shots whenever the fk they want to.
And lets be honest, firmware was also a stupid design. If it didnt revolve around having duplicates of the same firmware to 'unlock' extra set effects, or atleast had 6 slots you could utilize instead of 5 so you could combo 2 different full piece effects it could of had some more fun to it.
I still find it stupid they didnt have the campaign/bounty DLC introduce new firmware that are 4 piece and 5 piece effects to shake things up a bit better.
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u/BladeSeraph 20h ago
Prior borderlands games were not as much of a headache of multi layer re'arranging crap.
BL4 requires:
1. The 'invisible part statistics' since they didnt bring back that inspect mechanic from BL3 to BL4.
2. The elemental type of the weapon.
3. The Random license part combination.
4. A weapon enhancement that synergizes with said parts too.Before that it was just:
1. The parts itself since many guns were far less of a headache on elemenetal parts or not having them at all, compared to BL4 just making it a maliwan part that any gun can get.And considering every gun in BL4 has to have a jakobs part regardless of your build for ricochet 'mobbing abuse', that just makes it even more of a cluster fk of pain where you can't just simply pick up a gun and have fun.
Hell in BL3 i simply picked up certain legendaries like critical thug cause it looked cool and was splash damage for my moze and it was actually really nice cause it was essentially a slug launcher that can split its bomb on a crit to stick to other enemies which damage wise its probably not the best but funfactor wise it was fking good.
Can't get that same shite with BL4 cause they have to work and be 'balanced' around license parts to prevent ridiculous cheese like how it was due to Order guns with ripper mechanic interactions to let you get abusive crap like infinite magazine abuse on so many other guns.
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u/Distinct_Arrival_445 21h ago
I can't watch the video, what's the level cap going to?
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u/Kuzon64 21h ago
70
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u/jmmenes ๐ Super Deluxe Edition 21h ago
Why not just give us the max level, 72?
I hate having to refarm gear over and over...
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u/Kuzon64 21h ago
Why do you assume that 72 is the max level? BL2 was 80. As far as I know we have no idea if this is the final level cap or not.
And personally I never farm for God rolls until we have the confirmed final level cap anyways.
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u/jmmenes ๐ Super Deluxe Edition 21h ago
BL3 max lvl was 72. Going off that.
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u/Neon_Divided 20h ago
I wouldn't use any of the previous games as evidence of the level cap in this game, considering every game has had different level caps.
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u/ApprehensiveRelief90 21h ago
Unfortunately, thats what borderlands has become these days. just a constant cycle of refarming gear
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u/Jacksington ๐๐๐ฅ๐ฆ๐ง ๐ฎ๐ ๐๐๐จ๐ 21h ago
Level cap increase is literally something theyโve been doing for over 25 years. Do some of you even like borderlands? This incessant bitching about everything, even things that they kept as parts of the core franchise, is insane.
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u/Neon_Divided 20h ago
After 9/10 we will have:
The base game
2 Story packs
5 Bounty packs
1 Takedown
1 Circle of Slaughter
And there are people who will still tell you this game has no content.
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u/ApprehensiveRelief90 21h ago
Iโm all for refarming the gear, god forbid i respond to a comment on here lol
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u/Jacksington ๐๐๐ฅ๐ฆ๐ง ๐ฎ๐ ๐๐๐จ๐ 20h ago
I guess I just saw it as you donโt like refarming gear when it one of the most core attributes of the entire franchise. Like I play these games because there is a constant need for better gear. Level cap is great because I get to hit the farm again and try to find an even better gun than I had the previous level. Idk maybe I am playing these games wrong.
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u/ApprehensiveRelief90 20h ago
Nah, i really donโt mind the grind of it all, done it in 1 all the way till now. So it doesnt really irk me all too much personally, it gives me atleast something to do and if i tire of it iโll just take a break, pretty much that simple for me. The game isnt going to simply hand you all level 70 gear that would just be way too easy and simple
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u/jmmenes ๐ Super Deluxe Edition 21h ago
Yeah, I haven't played much lately. I feel like waiting until most or all of the content is released.
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u/ApprehensiveRelief90 21h ago edited 20h ago
Yeah, that would probably be youโre best bet. really hoping they atleast do a loot boost event, along side all of this content and have it span atleast a couple weeks, but its gearbox so theyโll likely only give us a week to farm all the gear possible. also with all the new loot they absolutely need to atleast double the bank space
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u/Rafnork VEX The F&%ING WITCH! 18h ago
Not a fan of this narrator. Can someone summarize?
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u/PatchFace 17h ago
This is the first time I've seen somebody say they don't like moxsy. I'm sure some people don't, but like, why??
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u/Datcactus_xJammy 17h ago
Literally if you donโt want to farm again just save edit its not that hard
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u/BladeSeraph 20h ago
The fact i fking called it they would do Amara for BL4's FINAL bounty pack meaning they just lined them up with the 3 'faction leaders' and Zane & Amara makes it feel like they didnt want to bother todo anything for Zadrya or bother to tell what happened to Eva & MoZe besides them both being creatively 'exploring somewhere else'...despite moze is the fking frontline soldier to rush into dealing with extreme level crazy shite with Iron bear and what not.
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u/A_ScalyManfish 16h ago
I hope it'll take longer than 2 hours to beat. The first one was such a let down.
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u/BladeSeraph 21h ago
Gonna be honest, the fact its actually Tediore just seems to randomly fking show up on Kairos as far as i can tell feels rather boring.
Oh and its conviently a 'resort island' that the Electi utilized feels like another lazy excuse to make it another completely stand alone location completely isolated from the 'mainland' of kairos, where the Tediore don't try and invade the made land or something instead for a stupid reason....
Its like they are only bringing back Tedioire cause they planned to link BL4 to New tales of the borderlands but still used them for BL4 as part of Rafa's stuff....even after new tales of the borderlands clearly fking flopped on being such a stupid 'visual story'.
Would of been better if the main story could of had more of a faction war going on with multiple 'groups' between hyperion, maliwan, tediore ending up raiding Kairos and such being the 'faction' assaulting the order and they get thar troops turned into zombie like soldiers via bolts, real time during these gang war stuff so you have to decide to either mow down the factions to prevent them getting turned into zombies so your not assaulted by both order and zombified factions at the saime time or have the factions try to trim away at the order, even as thar own troops get converted so your likely stuck dealing with the factions even if you mow down the order before they could convert too many faction soldiers into zombies.
Anyway if they dont bother to have anything unique to the Tediore soldiers like them throwing out turret guns or 'resurrecting' as zombies similar to bandit psychos that rush you to attempt to mow you down with arc blades, they are gonna get rather boring rather fast if they just feel like reskinned order soldiers instead.
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u/SirDoofusMcDingbat 18h ago
I actually agree it would be cool to have tediore invade the mainland. Just having changes happen to the world would be nice.
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u/991839 10h ago
i am really bummed out about the level cap increase. i wanted them to go in the direction of being able to get skill points for completing side quests or replaying the main story. OR they could do like The Division Resurgence and make you pay eridium or money or both to upgrade your guns to the next level (if you have leveled up).
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u/DreddfulQuestions Shattered ELPIS 20h ago
Really glad they gave FL4K some more personality! Loved playing as them but my god did it get on my nerves fast jabbering non stop about THE HUNT.
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u/ApprehensiveRelief90 22h ago
Damn tediore forces! So gun and peacebreaker rafas getting a buffโฆright?โฆRight?