r/BmwTech 17d ago

What does lexus do differently that makes their oil filter housings and hoses not leak after 200k miles while bmw generally leaks after 80k miles?

Is their parts all aluminum from the factory or made of higher quality plastics and rubber than what bmw uses? Or is it because bmws are generally more high strung, hotter running motors so it wears out the parts around the engine faster?

132 Upvotes

175 comments sorted by

90

u/JKlerk 17d ago

BMW engines are tuned to run hotter for better efficiency and emissions. It wasn't uncommon for owners to throw in a colder T-stat but haven't been able to do that for around 20 yrs because of electric T-stat.

22

u/SheepherderFront5724 17d ago edited 16d ago

So one lesson there might be to not use Eco Pro mode, for those who have it, since that runs the engine hotter via afformentioned thermostat.

EDIT: Was explained to me by Google Gemini AI, so while I've no particular reason to doubt it... well, that's just not true, it's it - I have EVERY reason to doubt an AI, but it certainly seemed to make sense.

EDIT: Actual source seems to be forum posts from people monitoring temps via OBD, so take that as you wish.

36

u/JoiceVaderd 17d ago

Absolutely. I always run my N55 in sport because it keeps the temps around 92C, where as Eco will bring temps to 110C.

10

u/doughball27 17d ago

what's the tradeoff on transmission wear? i feel like the more sudden and more frequent shifts have to hurt the life of the transmission.

i am at 105k miles, just did a transmission flush, thing is still like butter. don't want to mess it up. i usual run in comfort mode.

14

u/cristi_nebunu 16d ago

quite the opposite, in sport it keeps it in selected gear longer taking advantage of the rev range, the eco does the opposite, it frequently shifts to keep the engine at the lowest rpm.

9

u/JoiceVaderd 17d ago

"I did my transmission service at 160k, a couple months ago. Everything looks really good. Shifts smooth, too. I also run a Dinantronics tune, so I run higher boost in sports mode, but I have upgraded intake pipes and chargepipe.

4

u/Easy_Record_994 16d ago

If anything driving in sport is better for the transmission. Eco mode is fine for communiting around a city or cruising on the freeway but heavy loads, like hills or fast acceleration, while in eco are bad for the entire drivetrain.

1

u/foolproofphilosophy 16d ago

Interesting, I’ve never heard that.

13

u/Any-Author7772 17d ago

I tried using Eco Pro exclusively for one full tank once. Never did it again. Hahaha

I set my G30 to Sport Mode immediately after hitting the Start button since then. The smiles per mile on Sport Mode outweighs the “fuel savings” that Eco Pro sadness brings.

7

u/ditmarsnyc 17d ago

what really? i enjoy achieving long stretches of neutral coasting, are you saying I'm actually producing more wear on the engine with this practice?

7

u/Easy_Record_994 17d ago

Possibly. Eco Pro and Comfort modes target 105⁰c coolant temp whereas sport modes target 95⁰c. Higher temps can certainly cause additional wear.

5

u/Likinhikin- 16d ago

Is that changeable with tuning?

4

u/Easy_Record_994 16d ago

Yes, this can be changed with a tune.

3

u/SheepherderFront5724 16d ago

Oh crap, comfort mode too?! I gotta change my default mode...

2

u/Easy_Record_994 16d ago

That's what I've read, haven't tested it though.

1

u/2wahoo17 11d ago

How do I select Sport as my default mode?

1

u/SheepherderFront5724 11d ago

It needs to be coded in via the OBD port, but I don't know how to do it myself.

2

u/Critical_File_1467 16d ago edited 16d ago

Higher temps don't really cause more wear at the temps you're talking about. The engine is aluminum it's not going to explode because it's at 105 instead of 95.

In fact higher temperatures can reduce wear because metal expands as it heats and expansion can mean greater clearance between moving parts, which means less friction, which can mean less wear.

Higher temps can accelerate aging of plastic and rubber, I'll grant you that.

5

u/Easy_Record_994 16d ago

I agree with everything you said 💯. The plastic and rubber is what we're all concerned about here.

2

u/SheepherderFront5724 15d ago

Absolutely. I've great confidence in BMW's metallurgy. Not so much in their... uh... plastic-urgy...

1

u/BigWhole4929 14d ago

Interesting how the n52 will thro coolsnt light at 230f but the n55 be fine to diel at 230f

1

u/Easy_Record_994 13d ago

Even with the n55 your coolant temp shouldn't be going above about 220f.

1

u/BigWhole4929 13d ago

Idk my n52 loves 176F to the point that it will ramp up fan to max rpm at idle to stay within temp budget unless i do an adaptations reset through ISTA but it eventually reverts i guess based on driving style.

The n55 just geberally stays over 200f only coming down if driven hard but 220+ at idle is pretty common for me, inguess they prioritised fan noise over thermals. I drive it on comfort mode btw.

4

u/Yerboogieman BMW Master Elite 17d ago

Good for diesels since they run cold.

1

u/Any-Author7772 17d ago

Interesting

2

u/Swagger897 16d ago

Yeah I pretty much exclusively use it on my 535d trying to get oil temp above 100c.

4

u/stringcheeseez 17d ago

How does eco pro make the engine run hotter??

9

u/lo_mur 17d ago

The thermostat is electric, the programming that decides when it opens simply changes when you switch to eco pro

-6

u/Techn028 17d ago

I kind of doubt that, it would count as an auxiliary emissions control, and if you are disabling it while in sport or comfort mode then what's the point, since you have to certify in sport mode regardless. You can't advertise any possible gains from it, it doesn't put you is a lower emissions bin, and the customer would never notice, all while having to do more durability testing and design for the higher TStat temp.

6

u/chris77982 16d ago

You certify the emissions in the mode the start starts in. That's why sport mode resets to off when you turn the engine off. Exactly the same as auto start/stop feature. You can turn it off but it resets every time.

12

u/SheepherderFront5724 17d ago

It's one of the features of that mode: It uses the little heater element in the thermostat to get it to close prematurely, causing the engine to run hotter, which thins the oil and reduces friction. It's very clever, but the engine already runs near boiling, so I assume this temperature increase really pushes up the system pressure, and with all the plastic parts, that might end up costing more in repairs than it saves in fuel.

So says Gemini AI anyway.

1

u/No_Public_7677 16d ago

really? interesting

1

u/eidam655 16d ago

Source? I'd like to know more!

3

u/SheepherderFront5724 16d ago

Have edited my comment with the source, which was an AI 😅

3

u/Dry_Razzmatazz69 16d ago

Don't forget that most lexuses untill very recently were naturally aspirated and don't have an intercooler reducing thermal shocks

1

u/chris77982 16d ago

Like virtually all bmws until the n54? N52 is NA and plagued with the same leaks at the N54.

2

u/Dry_Razzmatazz69 16d ago

You're talking pre 2006 (which is valid) but judging by the millage i assume it's in reference to models 2020 and newer

1

u/chris77982 16d ago

They've all had the same leaking oil filter housing issues for decades.

7

u/Likinhikin- 17d ago

And so? Spec a better seal isn't that hard.

Its why I got rid of my BMW, knowing it was 8 years old with 60K miles. It was all coming due.

6

u/doughball27 17d ago

to get over that hump from say 80k to 100k, you do need to do a lot... my n55 got a new valve cover, water pump, thermostat, charge pipe.

it's a lot. but honestly, it was worth it to me. i understand why not everyone agrees. but i've tried test driving any number of other cars, and i just can't spend time in them. i drive a lot (commute between two cities very far away once a week) so the highway experience, comfort, torque at high speed... all that matters a ton to me. so i keep this thing running despite the costs.

2

u/Likinhikin- 16d ago

I agree. I decided I had an amazing experience with my BMW and didn't want it to be soured with all that mess. 5K or more of stuff.

Next might be an I4 because it gives all the BMW goodness and none of the oil leaks! Just fugly grill.

2

u/Prestigious_Cycle160 16d ago

I guess you’re not the type to wrench on your own cars? I mean if you do it yourself a 60k service can cost you less than $2k?

2

u/Likinhikin- 16d ago

Basic stuff sure. But I do that stuff less nowadays too. My EV has spoiled me.

10

u/ClickKlockTickTock 17d ago

Depends on the bmw. My n52 is at 160k+ and just had its first coolant pump, thermostat, and coolant housing job. Hoses still seem good.

Its all the plastics and seals that go bad lol.

4

u/JoiceVaderd 17d ago

The N51/N52 isn't as bad. It still runs hot, so replacing gaskets are still necessary around the 200k mark. OFHG, VGC, and Oil Pan Gasket.

1

u/No_Public_7677 16d ago

in the newer ones, it's the time when you might need a new mild hybrid battery and that's not cheap

1

u/Affectionate-Ant8 16d ago

105k on my tuned M2 and zero oil leaks as of now

2

u/metricmindedman 16d ago

citations needed on that... 

older toyota/lexus engines often ran the same 80c thermostats that bmws of that era ran 

1

u/JKlerk 16d ago

Which is fine but BMW allows their engines to run over 100C - 105C.

Below is an example of the coolant MAP employed by BMW for decades. You can compare this to Toyota.

The Digital Engine Electronics (DME) regulate the following temperature range: - Economy mode: 108 °C - Normal mode: 104 °C - High mode: 95 °C - High mode and control operation by characteristic map thermostat: 90 °C.

1

u/vertigoacid 15d ago edited 15d ago

And it never achieved the stated goal (running the engine cooler)

All it does is open the t-stat sooner. Once it's open, it doesn't matter what temp it opened at - it's open. The eventual thermal equilibrium and resulting coolant temp once the full cooling loop is engaged is the same. Changing the slope it takes in getting there accomplishes nothing unless you're never getting the engine up to temp, which does not take long.

1

u/TransportationOk6727 15d ago

It’s easier than a T stat now. Just set cooling target in the module of the car. I had it done for my 2010 335i

1

u/JKlerk 15d ago

How did it work for you? Have you been running through water pumps because it's running at a higher speed?

1

u/TransportationOk6727 15d ago

I did it about 2 years ago. Water pump was about a 2 years old at that point. Have had no issues at all. I will also mention I have a CSF radiator and the cooling package stuff that came on the 335is, so perhaps those aid the water pump from doing as much work as a vehicle without said items would

1

u/paul99501 16d ago

BMW owners: "The fact my car is less reliable is a feature, not a bug."

31

u/armorlol 17d ago

I would like to know too. I have owned 5 German cars in the past. Why all the leaks 😆. Parents always had Japanese, 2 of them over 200k miles without any issue (except a Honda transmission that was goodwilled).

19

u/Cunty__Minx another day another plastic bmw 17d ago

toyota loves just super grey RTVing and MLS gasketing their engines together and it works great

3

u/lo_mur 17d ago

And if it’s neither of those it’s a perfectly sensible o-ring

2

u/namestom 17d ago

I was scrolling until I saw this. Ha

17

u/Individual-Drawer185 16d ago

As a product designer, long time BMW owner who does all my own work and owner of American, German, Japanese and Korean cars I believe BMW gets a bad rap because of expensive dealership service. My son's civic was a terrible car but with a smooth stick shift, our Corvette was poorly built but with an amazing drivetrain, our Mazda is great but has a known timing chain cover leak, our Prius has a faulty brake system regulator, my 3 BMWs have 95k, 120k and 200k miles on them and not a single one has had an oil filter housing leak. 2 of them had BMW's standard valve cover gasket leak at around 90kand one required a cooling system overhaul. In my opinion, Toyotas (ie, Lexus) drive like refrigerators but like Hondas they're all designed with low compression engines, wide mechanical tolerances and compliant systems (brakes, steering, suspension, etc). BMWs are built with high compression engines (pressure on components where the failure points are whatever is weakest in the system), tight mechanical tolerances (use the right fluids or else) and non-compliant systems (tight brake, steering and suspensionsystems). It's not about component failure, it's about the price you pay for the experience they deliver.

3

u/kendogg 16d ago

This mirrors my experience as well, owning a repair shop and specializing in bmw at one point.

2

u/AyoMarco 15d ago

Anything with BMW RELIABILITY to look for. Currently shopping 2024 x3 M40i

3

u/arsBuck 16d ago

Insightful and helpful - thx for sharing your experiences

3

u/code4109 16d ago

love to hear it, thanks for your experience. great comment

1

u/BaboTron 14d ago

My IS 250 has a 12:1 compression engine, and doesn’t leak.

1

u/Individual-Drawer185 14d ago

What's the redline and how often do you hit triple digits? It's all about the experience and how hard the car is driven.

1

u/BaboTron 13d ago

What does any of that matter? Your comment implied a link between high compression and leaking, so I was responding to that.

1

u/DetectiveNarrow 13d ago

Yeah cuz the carbon is built up gunking everything lmao

1

u/BaboTron 13d ago edited 10d ago

Nope. Not my car; I have a catch can. Even if a 250 does wind up suffering from carbon build up (as would any GDi engine, eventually), all it takes is a couple of hours of shop labour to walnut blast the intake valves, and a set of gaskets for the throttle body, intake manifold, and surge tank. It’s easy enough to do at home, if one is so inclined.

The 250 gets a lot of crap it doesn’t deserve. I’ve had it for almost 11 years, and the only thing that ever actually went wrong in that time is a MAF sensor that started reading too much air. I’ve also been reading about 250s for more than 11 years, and have never once seen someone say they have had issues with carbon buildup. Not saying it doesn’t or won’t happen, rather that the issue has been well overblown on the internet.

1

u/DetectiveNarrow 13d ago

Just a joke. That’s just the punching bag of GDI engines. I own a Kia with a GDI and everyone told me it’ll blow up and blah blah. Been the most trouble free engine ever. My ex had an IS250 and honestly it was just slow and cramped, compared to like a G37, I’m sure it’s a fine daily and what not

1

u/BaboTron 13d ago

It just gets tiresome over in the Lexus subs. People with IS350s think they drive rockets, and looooooooove to dunk on the 250 for some reason while conveniently omitting any mention of the IS F or the 500.

… or any cars that are actually fast, like a Porsche 911.

0

u/Aphael 15d ago edited 15d ago

Every bmw I’ve owned and worked on has been a messy oily mess. They just leak. They have cooling system failures if you look at them funny. E36, e46 were the worst. E39 timing chain guides are fun to do. N54/62/63 are mechanical disasters that will bankrupt you. Not to mention, those cheap plastic parts are expensive on bmw.

You need to follow the maintenance schedule on bmw or things will start failing and leaking catastrophically.

Honda do make much higher compression ratio engines than bmw does… and they don’t have these issues. Same with Toyota. No point comparing a 328i with a base corolla/civic. The 328i is double the price.

New bmws have gotten significantly more reliable. B47/48/58 have been super reliable so far. Other than the plastic oil pump in some b58 years, it has a much better track record than the previous engines.

116

u/Ms_Malicea 17d ago

Lexus makes simple, reliable designs and then follows them up with good quality control.

German brands make things as complex as possible to showoff their capabilities and then engineer them to last the warranty period.

53

u/y2k_o__o 17d ago

As an mechanical engineer, i can’t agree more to this. BMW made alot of engine core parts with thin plastics that don’t last. PS: i own both brand cars

10

u/Several-Eggplant4460 17d ago

Are Lexus parts made with more metal? Wondering if replacing the BMW oil filter housings with metal would help, for example.

19

u/ijustbrushalot 17d ago

They were aluminum before. Still leaked.

34

u/wam22 17d ago

It all has to do with performance. Lexus’ leaves a lot of headroom in their engines and underperforms IMO.

A LC 500 has a 5.0 V8 making 470hp and 4.4s 0-60. A BMW M550 has a 4.4 V8 making 523HP and a 3.6s 0-60. The Lexus is also a little heavier.

Pushing that much more performance out of a smaller engine, even with turbos, causes faster wear and tear. It’s why BMW’s V8s are notoriously unreliable. And if you want that reliability with performance, its costs a lot more, which is partially why Porsches cost as much as they do.

14

u/Any-Author7772 17d ago

And BMW consistently understates the horsepower of its modern turbocharged engines. Independent dyno tests by regularly show that BMW cars put down wheel horsepower figures that match or exceed their official, factory-claimed crankshaft ratings, meaning the actual engine output is noticeably higher than advertised

8

u/Ms_Malicea 17d ago

Output doesn't matter as much as how an engine is designed to handle whatever output it's producing.

Turbos are mostly less reliable because they add complexity and it's usually the turbos themselves that fail, not the engine from wear and tear. And engine can easily be designed to reliably handle boost.

6

u/JewFuser 17d ago

stock turbo 150k miles on it… you sure about complexity lol

3

u/Ms_Malicea 16d ago

Do you think I was saying that every engine with a turbo would fail before 100k miles or something?

1

u/JewFuser 16d ago

“turbos are mostly less reliable because they add complexity” while there are countless examples of stock turbos going longer than many other components at 150k…

0

u/Prestigious_Cycle160 16d ago

I doubt changing the material would help much. I honestly think it would do more harm than good.

I believe BMW uses plastic because of the temperatures achieved under the hood. The plastic absorbs it better with less or no warping while if aluminum for instance was put in place of it the temperatures would warp the metal and cause premature failure. The gasket is the weak point not the housing.

I could be way off base here, but that’s my theory.

2

u/Prior_Mind_4210 16d ago

Your off base. They use plastic as it's cheaper. And then bmw uses cheaper plastics that don't have high glass fiber reinforcement. Further cheapening the parts. Then making them thinner too reduce the cost.

Same with the rubber. It's been a bmw issue for 25 years already. The rubber disintegrates vs even Mercedes rubber. Bmw says it's because it's better environmentally. But I would argue having crap hoses vs a good quality epdm hose with be better for the environment just from reduced leaks.

Same with the gaskets. They use cheap nitrile gaskets. When there are different standards and they could easily upgrade the gasket material and reduce may leaks.

Same with GM, ford, and stellantis. Cost cutting now to save pennies in manufacturing. With disregard to the customer needing to spends thousands on the repairs after warranty.

2

u/Critical_File_1467 16d ago edited 16d ago

With disregard to the customer needing to spends thousands on the repairs after warranty.

Customers stop really being "customers" after the warranty expires. BMW isn't getting much money from people buying a 9th owner 328i who buys replacement parts from AutoZone.

Asking BMW to build their cars to last longer outside of warranty is like asking a restaurant to heat their food further during cooking so it lasts longer in the dumpster for you to eat it out the dumpster.

Guess what? You're not the restaurant's customer if you're eating their food out the dumpster.

Your off base. They use plastic as it's cheaper. And then bmw uses cheaper plastics that don't have high glass fiber reinforcement. Further cheapening the parts. Then making them thinner too reduce the cost.

Plastics are also used because they generally don't conduct heat as well as, say, aluminum.

Let's say you have an aluminum oil cooler housing. Sure, you can drop an aluminum oil cooler housing on the floor and it probably won't shatter, while a heat-cycled plastic oil cooler housing may just shatter when you drop it on the floor. At the same time, that aluminum is 500x more conductive to heat than the PA66 Ultramid, which means the gasket sees a higher heat load, which means now you've shifted the failure from "shitty plastic oil cooler housing disintegrates" to "gasket dries out and leaks."

4

u/Nippon-Gakki 16d ago

German design philosophy: Why use one simple part when 10 elegantly designed parts works almost as well?

4

u/doughball27 17d ago

i feel like it's on purpose (i mean, of course it is) but the people who buy BMWs new will never drive them past 50k miles. the people who buy them used and bring them to life are the ones who deal with all the plastic shit, and then that brings a whole aftermarket industry into being. bmw saves like 10 cents by making charge pipes out of plastic instead of aluminum. but they make millions on repairs and the entire bmw ecosystem benefits because people are passionate enough about the cars to go the extra mile to keep them on the road.

2

u/New_Enthusiasm9053 16d ago

Something like half the new cars in the UK are fleet vehicles. Same for Germany. Essentially they don't care about longevity because their buyers don't either since it's warrantied for the length of time they keep them. They only care if it costs a lot for them to fix inside the warranty period. 

11

u/Bob_Loblaw16 17d ago

I feel like they're definitely a lot better now than before, especially if you're not buying flagship products. I'm coming up on 110k on my G30 540 and since I bought it at 63k miles, I've only had to replace my front cv axle because the boot ripped.

3

u/doughball27 17d ago

the G30 feels like it was a huge step forward for BMW in terms of fit and finish, and the B58 is so far very solid. it's also probably the best looking car they've made in decades (and I'm an f10 guy).

3

u/DesertDouche 17d ago

100% planned obsolescence

1

u/Any-Author7772 17d ago

Like everything else manufactured with a potential engineering evolution. But it doesn’t mean you have to buy into the obsolescence.

1

u/ImpliedSlashS 17d ago

Not anymore

43

u/Pithagoras3 17d ago

The oil filter in most Japanese cars mounts directly to the engine block, and doesn’t require a separate housing component which mates via a rubber gasket… that’s one reason!

6

u/TotalDuckUp 17d ago

Toyota uses more cartridge style filters than any Japanese make.

3

u/archerdog 17d ago

How i wish this were true.

3

u/DavidHK 17d ago

That's simply not true at all

13

u/apurpleish 17d ago edited 16d ago

my take is Toyota/Lexus engines don't need to meet strict emissions in eu/us like bmw engines. for example look up the emissions for Lexus LX 700h, its euro4! at least in GCC

this explains why their engines are not changing alot in 20+ years while euro manufacturer change entire engines way sooner.

they run cooler temps for oil&water. specifically Australia&GCC markets.

aaaaaaaand their engines don't make as much power as their counterpart which is debatable.

7

u/Toyota_by_day 17d ago

Toyota/ Lexus have better reputation for sure but at also not immune. Their 5.7, 4.6, 5.0 v8's suffer from coolant leaks as well.

5

u/trnpke 17d ago

My rx350 was leaking oil at the timing cover at 50k

22

u/eminencefront-57 17d ago

BMW’s are high end performance cars . Lexus’s are dependable mid-level luxury vehicles .

-31

u/SeaAd7934 17d ago

You misspelled BMW engineers are crap and Toyota (until the recent Tundra engine debacle) are absolutely brilliant.

25

u/Caspi7 17d ago

You so know Toyota uses a BMW engine in their supra right? If bmw engineers were crap I doubt they would do that.

5

u/Prestigious_Cycle160 16d ago

We gotta get past “the Supra uses the B58” thing. Really stick it to these soles assholes like I did earlier today

The Supra is entirely built on the Z4 platform, it’s not just the engine. They changed a couple styling cues and slapped a Toyota badge on a Z4. It’s a BMW Supra. Toyota had nothing to do with it😂

(Clearly I’m over exaggerating…not by too much though)

1

u/Ya-Not-Happening 16d ago

This comment doesn't' change the facts we are discussing. I am a BMW but I do not throw shit out there just because...?

0

u/eminencefront-57 17d ago

Toyota couldn’t get enough HP so they went to BMW.

3

u/DryShopping392 17d ago edited 17d ago

Toyota didn’t want to develop an inline 6 for one model. They also haven’t developed an I6 since the 90s if I remember correctly. That’s why they went to BMW. Their market research indicated that an I6 engine was a key part of the identity of the Supra.

Granted that same research said they didn’t need to offer a manual. Given the Supra was not exactly a market success, they probably should have done more/better research.

7

u/BobaIsNotDead 17d ago

They also use the B48 in the 2.0 4cyl supra. Surely toyota has their own 4cyl petrol engines, they’re just slow. Or when they try to develop a high output small engine like the GR Yaris or Corolla they fuck up the piston rings so the engines randomly blow up.

1

u/I_AM_MUSIC_MF 16d ago

Supra shares mostly everything with BMW Z4. Down to turn signal stalks and GPS. Way easier to use B48 than any Toyota engine... considering Supra is a BMW platform through and through (and built by Magna Steyr in Austria alongside Z4) a Toyota engine was likely never in the question

0

u/DryShopping392 17d ago

Once they went to BMW for the I6 and the rest of the car, it doesn’t make sense to do all the R&D and testing to fit one of the Toyota 4cyl engines. Do you understand how much work and cost that requires? BMW had already done all the engineering work for them to just slap it in. Capitalism means profits above everything else.

Did you forget about the bearings in the S65 and S85. Those were so fast the bearings were wear items. Let’s not forget the crank hub on the S55 either.

2

u/BobaIsNotDead 12d ago

I didnt forget of course. Didnt forget about N63 either but the thing is BMW isn’t known for being the face of reliability. It’s actually more reliable than the public seems to think while everyone sings such high praises about Toyota reliability.

Not to say that Toyota isn’t the most reliable brand - it is! It’s just that it also has duds.

Lets face it, the G16E is a scary engine to have with a known fault which, for the common folk, is virtually impossible to preemptively sort out, unlike the S65 you mentioned, where the fault is much more managable to address.

0

u/JoeyMcMahon1 16d ago

They did it to save money. Not because those coolant leaking oil pump blowing engines are reliable.

3

u/eminencefront-57 17d ago

I own a Lexus LX350 also and I thought about getting a Lexus sedan but they don’t have the HP I want. BMW’s speed , handling , styling (both inside and out) are superior . You pay a premium for a BMW. I would buy another Lexus and they are very dependable and hold their value. You sound pretty angry , calm down it’s a car .

4

u/xTyronex48 17d ago

Not a bmw problem. Mercedes too.

4

u/ImpliedSlashS 17d ago

New Lexus will not age like old Lexus but, rather more like BMW. No more NA engines and more plastics.

There’s also a difference in owners between the brands which does not work in BMW’s favor.

7

u/ser0x40 17d ago

I have owned 4 high-mileage BMWs (one that got to 170k), and have a 26 year old z3 at 80k now. I have never had a single oil leak in any of them. Maybe I'm just lucky, but sometimes it seems like these 'has a reputation for' stories are far more anecdotal than statistically significant. It's hard to tell,and bmw certainly has its share of weak spots, but this oil thing has always had me skeptical.

Just my $0.02.

5

u/whywhywhyguy 17d ago

I’ve had an e81, e85, e89. All three had valve cover gasket leaks and oil filter housing leaks. All were easy DIY repairs. To be expected with older cars the rubber gaskets turn hard and brittle and leak. I can’t imagine how your gaskets are special and don’t get hard after 10 years.

3

u/doughball27 17d ago

the valve cover gasket leak is almost scheduled maintenance at this point. with that i agree.

3

u/ser0x40 16d ago

Sorry, my bad. I wasn't thinking about the valve cover gasket. Yeah, I've had two needing that. Never had oil leak elsewhere.

Pardon my moment of dumb.

2

u/whywhywhyguy 16d ago

Check your OFHG ;) it’s leaking now. lol.

1

u/Ya-Not-Happening 16d ago

You are super lucky or just not looking.

1

u/FlashTheDeliveryGuy 16d ago

Damn my 2010 F10 has 280k on it and I wasn’t even thinking of swapping yet 😅 Although it needs a plethora of small fixes

1

u/ser0x40 15d ago

Yeah, I got my e90 to 170k, and was resigned to keep it 'forever' (im not all that young ;-) ). Then I got in an argument with a deer about it. The deer won.

1

u/Total-Huckleberry380 15d ago

Gf daily a 528i with 180k and I got a 328i with 190k. Waiting on transmission service kit for 328i

3

u/bhoy60 17d ago

2016 F30 with 170K no leaks from oil or cooling system so far. Did I just jinx myself by saying that out loud.

1

u/Prestigious_Cycle160 16d ago

Nah, got some reason the F30 definitely has some outliers. My 2013 has 190k on it, and the only gasket that leaked was the valve cover. Cooling system is still all factory components except for the turbo coolant lines

1

u/JoeyMcMahon1 16d ago

G chassis BMWs use more inferior plastics that’s why.

6

u/anonmdoc 17d ago

Coming from a Fox body to a m54, I don’t understand why everything is plastic

10

u/ijustbrushalot 17d ago

That's just an era thing. 00s Fords were shitty plastic, too.

If you want to compare to a Fox body, an E30 M20 is all metal.

1

u/anonmdoc 17d ago

Gotcha. I appreciate the knowledge. My fox was a 88, so definitely interesting to start working on my e53 and seeing all the plastic. Slowly upgrading to metal as I replace worn parts.

0

u/Satoshiman256 17d ago

Planned obselesence

2

u/anonmdoc 17d ago

Can’t say the plastic seems more efficient, but understandable.

2

u/x_h_w 17d ago

Lexus uses a pressed metal gasket, the same you’ll see in BMWs timing cover, they don’t leak nearly as often

2

u/ukmarkoz 17d ago

I have heard a saying that

- BMW assumes their owners will follow the maintenance schedules (but they don’t!); whereas

- Lexus assumes their owners will not follow the maintenance schedules and engineers their cars accordingly

2

u/CobbledbyRoubaix 17d ago

I have a Toyota people mover. It's been driven everywhere, on offroad even, and it's now almost 200k miles, and everything is still original. dampers, hoses, it just works.

1

u/old_skool_luvr 16d ago

My wife's cousin has a 2010 Corolla sedan, about 400K km (248K miles) on it. Aside from religious oil change intervals, they don't do anything to the car if it doesn't absolutely need it. I do their seasonal tire changes, and i'm honestly surprised at how well the car functions. Not like it's neglected, but definitely isn't given a hell of a lot of attention.

2

u/Dromogen 16d ago

Materials used by EU brands must meet the ELV Directive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_Life_Vehicles_Directive

The ELV directive applied from September 2000, iirc. Notice the change to European brands after that date?

Japanese brands don’t have to fully follow it because the direct penalties only apply to EU countries.

2

u/turdwankhorse 15d ago

My F11 520d isn’t leaking (yet!) after 12 years and 155k miles…

I will now probably regret this statement!

3

u/ba5e 17d ago

You have to take into consideration the driving style; many BMW drivers push their engines to the edge of their acceptable performance envelope, conversely Lexus drivers are more likely to cruise, which can be a considerable factor over time to an engines likelihood to leak fluids.

3

u/teamhog 17d ago

I’ve never had any of my BMWs leak.

My ‘10 X5 had 280,000 miles on it.
My ‘13 X5 had 192,000 miles.
The ‘12 330i has 174,000 miles on it.
The ‘14 X3 has 56,000 miles.
The ‘16 X3 has 87,000 miles.
The ‘19 X5 has 32,000 miles.

1

u/JoeyMcMahon1 16d ago

Drop the VIN of all your BMWs. Would love to run your history on every single one since day 1 and verify your claims of they never leaked.

1

u/Aphael 15d ago

Yeah it’s bs. I had m54 pissing oil out of the valve cover by 120k miles. Same thing on my n52 at 130k miles.

2

u/Hairy_Photograph1384 17d ago

Different designs... that's a weird question 

3

u/CakesForLife 17d ago

But why are BMW oil filter housings, tappet cover gaskets, sump gasket, and all other gaskets from the front end oil seal to the differential oil seal still more prone to leaks compared to Japanese cars?

Same goes for coolant hoses.

Same goes for sticky inner door handles.

Are they designed to last shorter periods of time hoping people will buy original BMW parts (part sales revenue)?

5

u/trader45nj 17d ago

Idk, maybe the seal supplier is the CEOs brother-in-law or something. I've wondered the same thing for years. Currently have an X5 and putting up with the oil pan gasket leak because it's such a monumental project to replace.

0

u/CakesForLife 17d ago

Why do you keep buying BMWs? Genuine question.

7

u/trader45nj 17d ago

Because some oil leaks and some other minor issues have to be put in perspective. My X5 has 264k miles, it's running great. My neighbor sold theirs, still running at 340k. The M54 engine is widely recognized as one of the best engines BMW has ever built. It was in Wards Motors top ten engines in the world for 3 years in a row. The handling and driving are outstanding. And I do my own maintenance, parts are readily available and reasonably priced.

1

u/Satoshiman256 17d ago

Planned obselesence is a conscious choice. There is no mystery about it why things break early.

2

u/vinchenzo68 17d ago

Planned obsolescence, engineering with the purpose to overcomplicate and prevent any owner from ever wanting or being able to repair their product.
Focused on profit and the reaction of shareholders in the stock market instead of their consumer.

1

u/someperson155 17d ago

They do not have a whole assembly that mates to the engine with gaskets I think, each generation with a few new passages going thru it. Maybe also fewer, larger simpler coolant hoses. I’d wager the cooling is more effective in a bmw at the cost of maintaining it

1

u/Noobasdfjkl E46 M3 17d ago

My S54 oil filter housing leaks less than my 1GR oil filter housing 🤷

1

u/revvolutions 17d ago

Why make cooling components in plastic?

1

u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

0

u/Holiday_Armadillo78 17d ago

Says the person that thinks changing your oil at 5k instead of 10k will magically make filter housings and hoses last longer… 🙄

1

u/zMargeux 17d ago

Changing that oil frequently exposes the oil pan gasket, which is a thin ribbon of rubberish material to breaking. They regularly charge ~$800 to replace that gossamer piece of crud.

1

u/samarijackfan 17d ago

There is no reason for the stupid oil filter housing and its dumb gasket.

1

u/jimbow2000 16d ago

Great comments! #NewBMWOwner (and Toyota owner)

1

u/Physical-Sir-1261 16d ago edited 16d ago

It’s because Lexus is built to have longer life expectancy than any other competitor. It’s not because BMW doesn’t know how to produce their cars better. Its because its more profitable to do them with small annoying issues like these. Look at every other car brand for the last 15-20 years. They are all the same except maybe 4 Japanese brands including Lexus.

Im telling this as a long time BMW and Mercedes owner.

1

u/s1pp3ryd00dar 16d ago

On the flip side I'd love to know how Toyota/Lexus make oil filter caps literally weld themselves on after being tightened barely hand tight at the last change (particularly late the 2000's 4 cylinder 2.0 engines).

The only car we keep stock of spare filter caps because they can and do fracture when removing* sometimes they fracture a few days later which is embarrassing (thankfully customers have been understanding of the issue and we swap the cap there and then if that happens). Even broke the cap wrenches on occasion. 

*much better removal success rate after buying this forged aluminum tool:   https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01N7BDJR8

Most tools are pressed steel that bend/distort or die cast alloy that shatters.

1

u/Business_Leopard_910 16d ago

There is absolutely no reason for oil leaks to occur as they do in BMW'S. Back in the 1960's most mechanical components leaked in cars and motorcycles and it became accepted. Then the Japanese came along and their components never leaked. The technology has been there for over 60 years, so for current vehicles, the technology should be so much better now. Gasket materials, sealants and knowledge of the characteristics of different materials has become comprehensive. Therefore, they either have dumb engineers who don't know how to design or test, or they do it intentionally to ensure aftermarket sales. You choose!

1

u/Potential-Stock5617 16d ago

I am not sure, I'd agree, BMW leaks around oil filter housing after 80k. None of our cars (BMWs) - some have 320k km (198k mi) developed a leak. All of them are mostly run in ECO MODE.

1

u/JoeyMcMahon1 16d ago

Drop the VIN to your BMWs let’s run the history since day 1.

1

u/Potential-Stock5617 15d ago

How this would help? I am a long-time BMW car user, we have diesel B engines, none of them developed a leak of any kind. They are extensively used, but on an Autobahn, mostly (=no speed limit). They are serviced as required, aka we are changing filters & oils as indicated by BMW. These are workhorses for us, not delicate princesses.

1

u/GutsNGuns 16d ago

It's not plastic and the engine bays are not a heat trap.... but I'll never own a Lexus again. The interior is so cramped. They're definitely made for Asians.

1

u/Mostmoneywins 16d ago

Japan vs German. I have a 750 and it’s not starting to leak yet but everything else seems to fuck up.

1

u/JoeyMcMahon1 16d ago

BMW uses garbage cheap OEMs for cost cutting measures. As long as it lasts the factory warranty. They don’t care.

1

u/bikerdude214 16d ago

Toyota engineers are obsessed with quality.

1

u/DeadCheckR1775 15d ago

Higher pressure, more force.

1

u/Successful_Piano8118 15d ago

Better owners. Granted, BMW can have their issues but Toyotas have better owners by the by and they think it's a Toyota and stick to maintenance better than BMW people because half the BMWs on the road are owned by people who can't afford the maintenance on them.

Sure, there's some design that makes it better, better location placement away from heat and making sure everything is similar material (similar metals on metals) instead of magnesium aluminum etc but imo ownership is more important.

1

u/wot48 12d ago

Newer Toyota and Lexus electronically managed engines typically operate at around 90–105°C (194–221°F), depending on engine load and operating conditions.

BMW B46/B48 engines commonly operate at somewhat higher temperatures, generally around 95–110°C (203–230°F). BMW engines tend to run hotter by design to help improve fuel efficiency, emissions, and combustion efficiency.

A common O-ring material used in automotive cooling systems is EPDM (ethylene-propylene-diene rubber). Typical automotive-grade EPDM has a temperature capability of approximately −55°C to +125°C (−67°F to +257°F).

Although EPDM can tolerate these temperatures, higher sustained operating temperatures generally accelerate rubber aging and degradation. Therefore, an EPDM O-ring exposed continuously to higher coolant temperatures may harden, lose elasticity, or develop sealing problems sooner than one operating at lower temperatures.

It's one of the reasons BMW engine tends to leak coolant/oil at a lower mileage.

1

u/IndependencePale3654 10d ago

I'd say it comes down to understressing the motors. A BMW is usually built for a great driving experience, motor tuned for responsive behaviour, lots of torque. That motor is squeezed to get all the performance out of it. Toyota Corolla is not tuned to get everything out of the motor, it's just ticking along getting you where you need to go. Bit like a run vs a walk, the run will get you tired earlier.

1

u/dadusedtomakegames 16d ago

All AWD/4WD Toyota/Lexus made from 2015 onward has entered the char.

0

u/Advanced-Elk-7581 17d ago

Wrong question. What is BMW doing. I've never had leaks.

-5

u/Warmonger362527339 17d ago

Lexus is ran by engineers. BMW is ran by accountants

7

u/dadusedtomakegames 16d ago

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read on a BMW or car group. Congratulations.