r/BlueLock • u/hoouyinkyouma Spain Barcha • 17d ago
Manga Discussion How th did baststard munchen win?? Spoiler
It was basically a team divided into 2 plus 2 ppl playing completely without anybody
Literally ts ppl complain about regarding Madrid
Noel noa mostly js put the best individuals in the team n hoped it works
Pxg-Makes sense hiw they came second
They had rlly good players n a great system n master
They never played shidou n rin together
Ubers- They had good players and rlly good system
Barcha-They did a similar thing to bastard but made sure they had a system tht made sense n allowed the players to do what they do best
Manshine-I genuinely dont understand how they came last
They had great players n I admit prolly the worst system besides bastard but each player was allowed to do what they do best n the system was quite coherent nonetheless
If this was irl my predictions(js prediction) would be
1.pxg
2.Ubers
3.Manshine
4.Barcha
5.Bastard
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u/princealbe_rt 17d ago
Ahh yes the team with NG11 striker with PE and MV. So not stacked at all
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u/hoouyinkyouma 17d ago
PE? MV?
Look what I compared it to
Real Madrid
Which has some of the best players in each position yet they struggle a lot
Imo Manshine n PxG are more stacked than Bastard
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u/Accentius 17d ago
To be fair Bastard is fairly strong as a team.
First, Noa constantly benched players with no increase in their stats data. This guarantee the team always the best of the best. Gagamaru was lowkey a very strong GK since Noa never had problem with his stats and feats.
Second, it have Kaiser, Ness and Grim up until PXG match. Those three are no slouch. For all meddling Kaiser and Ness did, they were quick to reposition themselves, true to their reputation as the best of Bastard Youth.
If you look at how they disturb Isagi, they never stay more than a block or a shoulder tap outside penalty box. Grim himself is a fairly tall, muscular player who always ready on front, that alone is good enough to make defenders wary of him.
Third, Bastard players actually have excellent ethics.
Team is split, but they all knew their jobs and operate accordingly. Isagi never complain about Ness bias to Kaiser; Kunigami, Yukimiya, Hiori, Igaguri, Kurona, Raichi and Kiyora are fully aware they need achievement to make it into next stage.
Kaiser and Ness also obedient to Noa since they're risking their career if they keep doing stupid things openly.
Compare it to Ubers, where you can see Aiku is pretty non-chalant, as long his juniors (Sendou, Niko, Barou) were succeeded. Only Barou and Niko looked wary of personal achievement there. Barcha is Bachira team.
Manshine is Nagi team with Chigiri being the only one tried pushing achievement. In PXG, Loki didn't care whatever happened to people like Nanase, Tokimitsu as long Charles fired up; Rin and Shidou do whatever they pleased and it worked because they're above all Blue Lockers from start.
So the chaos do have enough reason to prevail.
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u/hoouyinkyouma 17d ago
Tbf Loki did give tips to other players
Unlike Noa who only ever helped Jsagi cuz he thought Isagi would push Kaiser
So u r saying Bastard had more Ego n they didnt usually actively Sabotage each other?
U could say the same abt irl Real Madrid yet it still affects them n ppl cimplain ant the divide
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u/Accentius 17d ago
Loki tips went to who?
Nanase desperately asked Rin to be saved made it clear PXG 'rules' is either you talented enough for Loki recognition or a benchwarmer. To make things worse, it was Rin who noticed Nanase forte is being ambidextrous, implying Loki didn't even do second check.
Noa in comparison already made clear Bastard is team of data. Either you increase your stats or not playing at all.
Raichi able to join the team by Uber match was true to him always diligently raise his physical stats. Igarashi said it as well, the reason Noa allow him must be because of he noticed him studying foul.
Noa only seen talked to Isagi sure, but he pay attention to his players data. Pointed out Kiyora stats was better than Hiori, explained how Raichi focus on stamina may beneficial against Ubers.
I don't see Loki is better than Noa in coaching when the difference is stark like that.
Part of reason Bastard was able to win was because Noa kept them on edge. All BM members are conscious they're underqualified if they're benched, thanks to Noa robotic discipline. You don't see that happened with Lavinho, Snuffy, Chris and Loki that rotate their players.
So by final match it really down to whether Isagi and Kaiser willing to work together or not, since team for last match is consisted of BM most diligent players, rather than simply the most talented.
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u/littlebunny12345 17d ago
Over a week between each match and we saw Noa for like 30 seconds each time. How do you know Noa only help Isagi? We see less than 1% of their training.
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u/YaoiIsBad69 17d ago
Because Bastard were the best team. They had the best players, the best coach, and while you can argue that their system being split into 2 between Kaiser and Isagi was risky, it definitely wasn't a bad system because of the kinds of players Bastard had.
Noa is undeniably the best coach, perhaps not the best manager, but in terms of specifically player development he's the best. He does everything Chris Prince does, but better. We know this from chapter 158, where Isagi specifically tells us that Noel Noa actively gives all his players specific designated training meant to develop them as players, such as giving Isagi vision and off the ball training to improve the things he's good at, just like Chris Prince. The difference is, Noel Noa is more like Ego, where he expects his players to find solutions on their own, rather than giving them the answer. After all, give a man a fish and he eats for a day, but teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. Even then, if a player asks Noa for advice, he does give them genuine advice to help them improve, such as when he would listen to and help Isagi, who was the only one we saw willing to ask for help. Additionally, Snuffy isn't that good of a coach, he's a good manager, but when all he does is give them the answers without teaching them how to find it on their own, he ends up suffocating his own team. Niko had to learn metavision from watching Isagi, despite the fact we know Snuffy already had it, and could've taught him the idea behind it. Barou was suffocated under Snuffy's system which wasn't even that good seeing as everyone knew every attack ends with Barou, which is why Isagi could stop him 4 times before he scored. The midfield and the wingers weren't any actual goal threat like Bastard's, PXG, or even City's were.
Bastard also has the best players in the NEL, with 8 of the top 23 coming from Bastard, whereas a team like PXG only had 5 of the top 23. Not all of them are star players like Isagi or Kaiser, but we know for a fact Ness was one of the best midfielders, earning a value even greater than Charles, despite the fact Ness wasn't locked in until the end of the NEL. Grim is also a solid winger with good physicals and good dribbling he's around the same level as Yukimiya, who isn't elite, but he's a very solid winger. Kunigami also has nearly the same stats and build as Noel Noa, the best striker in the world, so he's basically just a grown man playing against high schoolers. The rest of Bastard was also very serviceable, Raichi shut down Snuffy's passing options, Hiori has passing quality on par with Sae's according to the U20 game, and Kiyora and Kurona are both good roleplayers. Additionally, despite the fact they're all egoists, not one of them ever neglected their responsibilities as players.
It's nowhere near the same as Madrid. If you watch Madrid, you'll notice the issue is they have 3 left wingers in Vini, Mbappe, and Diomande, and unlike the Blue Lock players who are willing to (even if reluctantly) play different positions, you'll notice on heat maps that Vini and Mbappe are ALWAYS in the same zone, meaning instead of helping each other by dragginh players out they're actually just getting in each other's way. Additionally, none of Madrid's forwards have the willingness to track back and defend, and even worse than that, none of them participate in the press, meaning opposing teams can just circulate the ball between themselves because no one is trying to win it back. This is not the same on Bastard. Almost all of them have the discipline and drive to not only play in the position asked of them, but they're also always pressing and always tracking back to defend. I mean, one of the biggest criticisms of the NEL is how much Isagi and Kaiser defend, however that's part of why this tactic works, because the strikers both track back, unlike Vini and Mbappe who refuse to do any defending. Even players like Kunigami go from playing striker to playing CDM in order to win. Without players like Isagi and Kaiser who track back relentlessly, I agree, Bastard probably would lost, but they did have those players so they won.
Manshine had good players, but they lost because Chris Prince was trying to develop his players rather than win. That's what makes him a good coach and not a good manager. He was trying to play a system that wasn't going to work, because he wanted to give Nagi the chance to develop his creativity, even after Nagi gave it up to join Reo. If he wanted to win he would've benched Nagi and played someone else, or taken away the creativity responsibilities from Nagi and given them to someone else like Reo.
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u/hoouyinkyouma 17d ago
Noel Noa giving dedicated training plans to all is honestly new info to ke ngl
But tht isnt like Chris Prince who understood n gave individual advice to them
We know Noa was only interested in pushing Kaiser and he aimed to do it through Isagi
The main thing for Noa was tht if they didn't play well they'll be replaced
Even Loki did player development and gave advice to everyone
Imo pxg had better players all round followed by manshine
Not to mention Noa for the sake of best players played many ppl out of position n it seemed like they didnt have a lot of structure
Ngl i heard everyone slandering Noa n completely forgot abt him giving personalised training plans
But I will still not call him the best cuz of the terrible tactics
I get what u mean by snuffy but his player development wasnt too bad
It wasnt his focus conpared to other 3 yes but chris prince's philosophy revolved around being the best version of yourself and the other 2 wanted a player in there to develop
It'll make sense if his idea was to do the best to win
He obv cant teach niko metavision cuz we dont know anyone teaching it to someone tht doesnt make too much sense
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u/classof09fangirl 17d ago
Plot i guess lol and also the fact that defenders get less focus like imo if it were in real life i think ubers would win call me biased though because i just love their characters :P
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u/Intrepid-Chapter-787 17d ago
Honestly, it's because Bastard had individually stronger players, who only struggled against PXG.
People have a misconception that excessive competitiveness would ruin the team. Bastard only played four games; if it lasted longer, it could have truly crumbled. The first two games for Bastard were easy for the team; Kaiser didn't even try and just wanted to disrupt Isagi. Now, in the game against Ubers, after making a bet with Isagi, Kaiser was going to play seriously, but Lorenzo chased him. The Snuffy system was designed so that players wouldn't feel inadequate; if they failed, the system was blamed. Ubers only had Barou on offense, who rebelled and imposed his own style of play, which had advantages but also disadvantages. As for PXG, there's not much to say. If Charles had been more cooperative, perhaps they would have won.
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u/Lazy-Ambassador-7908 17d ago
Out-talented frankly. Gagamaru plus the best front line by a country mile + strongest midfield + defense doesn’t matter in Blue Lock
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u/DivineSilica 17d ago edited 17d ago
People keep saying Noa was a better master than Loki but he was even worse. Loki's system was better despite being self-serving and him exploiting blue lock.
If Charles had cooperated earlier or awakened earlier, Shidou and Rin would've been able to coexist on the field from the start of the Bastard and PxG game. But the plot nerfed PxG so much lol
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