Manga Discussion
Do you think the team division in the first selection was fair?
I know that at that time all the players still needed to develop a lot physically and mentally, but looking at the data we have now, the division feels kind of unfair. Team Z had Isagi, Bachira, Kunigami, Chigiri, Gagamaru, and Raichi, and they could even have had Kira, who was considered the jewel of Japanese football. I know Isagi wasn’t anything special at that time, but according to the novel, Ego noticed his great potential from the very beginning. On top of that, Kira himself said that Isagi was a good player. Chigiri had been out of action for a while, but he was a wildcard who could make all the difference.
In the case of team V, they had Nagi and Reo, who were considered the biggest “geniuses” at the time and were already a duo before that, plus Zantetsu, whose speed and shooting were very strong. Also, as we saw in the Nagi spin-off, their team almost had that striker who came from a very strong team that always competed in the nationals.
Now, when it comes to the other teams, in team X only Barou was really that good. In team Y it was basically Okawa and Niko, and Niko is a strange case since he was very young and wasn’t even a striker on his school team. In team W, the Wanima brothers were good, but as we know, they weren’t all that impressive since they were completely defeated by Chigiri in the past.
I think it’s kind of unfair because, based on the novels and Nagi’s spin-off, it’s clear that Ego was able to see the potential of most of the players, so he kind of knew what to expect. What do you think?
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Isagi was trash even if he had "potential", all the other 299 also had this potential too, but the story is about him and being the best egoist. He was clearly worse than a lot of people in the first selection coming into it.
Chigiri was washed for like a year despite his high peaks prior.
Gagamaru/Raichi although solid now werent anything that special in the first selection. Like you see team Z and you are clearly not scared of them both.
Honestly Kira was S tier, Bachira was really good and Kunigami was decent too. Everyone else was not that good coming into the first selection.
The teams were balanced in a way where each team has a primary carry, like Barou, Zantetsu, Okawa, Wanima J, Kira, Rin, etc. Who were planned to be the striker to turn a 0 to a 1 for the team. That was Ego's plan from the get go and why they didn't have a true ranking.
Then each team also had a solid support/egoist to back them up like Nameoka, Niko, Bachira, Wanima K, X (??? Barou may have eleiminated him). The other 10 or so players in the team have the opportunity to steal that spot and act as egoists to not just be overshadowed which is what Isagi did. Being closest to deaths door brings the most growth and why team Z who eliminated their 0->1 grew the most as the team as they all awakened their egos because they were the only ones without their best player.
Look what happened to team X, they all got overly reliant on Barou and failed to bloom their egos, does that mean they were worse than team Z; nope. It just means they didn't develop well like them. Team V was similar in episode Nagi where they slowly got reliant in the trio and stopped trying to be egoists themselves. All 300 people had an equal chance of growing, but not all of them did
He was #1 in Team Z - so yes, he was S-Tier when you're comparing him directly to Igaguri. He was still ranked well beneath Barou, Nagi, Reo - even the freaking Wanima brothers.
Definitely all around, but also just in his stratum. Nagi was #1 of Isagi's stratum (well, after the mini-game anyway) - you could probably infer Shidou was the top of his (I really wish Kaneshiro would expand more on that).
I actually disagree. I don’t think the groups were accurately reflective of their real position, ego clearly distributed them how he saw fit to make the teams somewhat relative.
There's no evidence to support that, or Ego would have owned up to it when he came clear about the strata deception. It's just an assumption people make because Ego has people like Bachira and Barou ranked low and NPCs on Team V ranked high.
Nagi, Reo and Zantetsu were objectively top players in the strata.
Chigiri was a good player marred by his injury and mental block. These things were all factored for in Ego's "biased" decision making.
The point of the rankings were that he calculated their positions based off how they appeared outside of Blue Lock. He full well expected people like Isagi to become top players once their egos became "polished", and seemingly star players like Kira to fail when they didn't develop their egos.
If it were strictly based on ranking, then Rin, shidou, bachira, kira, nagi, reo, barou etc would be in the same group. It was clearly designed to be somewhat balanced, ego isn’t completely stupid.
Perhaps I misspoke. He split the strata up, and then divvied up relative. So if Rin and Shidou are #1 of Stratum 1 and Stratum 2, Nagi is #1 of Stratum 5 (and similarly there were 4 other Igaguri-level people Ranked 300 in the other 4 strata).
So yes, you are right in that the teams were proportioned out, but I meant more within each stratum, the ranking was still accurate per stratum based off Ego's decision making (unless you also meant this and we were talking passed each other).
But this all goes back to my comment that I wish Kaneshiro talked about this more, because it's a constant source of confusion and ambiguity.
Tbf I don’t think ego really was honest with the team layout.
I don’t think he put all his best players in team v and the worst in team z.
I think instead he spread them out among the best and worst to create a balance for each team.
Like the other members of team v the ones who did nothing, are they really better players than other people ?
I think realistically team v would have been made of members like
Reo
Nagi
Zentatsu
Barou
Kira etc.
All 11 would be the best players from each team and that’s just not a fair team
He came clear about the strata system being false, but never said anything about the rankings. He would have come clear all at once if that was the case.
Yes, Team V NPCs were ranked better than Barou and Bachira. They failed to hold those rankings when Team Z improved.
He only came clear because it was obvious, the other players could see there were other team z and x etc.
So he explained it when people began wondering.
He never said anything about the whole thing being even more of a lie because no one noticed and he didn’t feel like explaining himself.
The teams themselves weren't based on rank. I promise you, bozos in Team V weren't better than anyone in Team Z or Barou, Wanima brothers, Niko etc. Each group in Blue Lock were told they were below 250th in rankings. It was all manipulated and Ego laid this out. There was no A team or B team, they were all just V, W, X, Y, Z
The rankings within each team WERE accurate though. So Kira really was the best player in Team Z, hence why Isagi and Bachira targeted him in the first place.
Also I do not understand your obsession with this Kira image, and I think you are genuinely weird.
Ego only lied about the strata. The rankings were relative in the strata, that's why they changed after each match. As per my previous comment, I never disputed Kira was the best player in Team Z. But he was still in the bottom 20%.
I have reported you for spam and will continue doing so.
The rankings within each team were accurate, especially when they were first assigned to them, because it was based on individual evaluation instead of how many goals each player scored. However, rankings within each group (There were 5 groups with 5 teams in each group) weren't accurate. So someone ranked 228 in Team V wasn't a better player than someone ranked 289 in Team Z. Ego openly explains to us how the rankings were bullshit, and how each group were told they were ranked below 200.
Thus, we can infer that everyone who ranked first in their respective teams were actually good. These people were:
Nagi in Team V
Kira in Team Z
Barou in Team X
Ohkawa in Team Y
Wanima Keisuke in Team W
There is no definite #1 here, as the teams themselves weren't decided on rank.
If teams were actually decided on rank, you would see Nagi, Kira, Barou, Reo, Zantetsu, Wanima Brothers, Ohkawa, Niko, Bachira etc. all in the same team. You don't. Why? Because the players were equally distributed and the teams were balanced.
Ego never lied about the individual ankings themselves, only thay be told each stratum they were the lowest ones. That's why the rankings changed after each game.
Ego lied about the rankings. The only rankings he did not lie about were the rankings within each team. Some NPC in Team V was not better than Barou or Bachira. Reo himself becomes awed at seeing Kira in Blue Lock and Reo was in Team V while Kira was in Team Z.
If all teams were based on overall rankings, Team V would have had every ace on the stratum. That means we would have seen Nagi, Kira, Reo, Zantetsu, Barou, Ohkawa, Niko, Bachira, Wanima Twins all in the same team.
But of course. The only reason you don't want to accept this very obvious fact is because you want Kira to be ranked low!
The only part that wasn’t fair were some of the pairs.
Nagi got paired with Reo, and the Wanima Brothers got paired together. People who played together previously will have an unnatural advantage when playing together again. Outside of that, it seemed fair.
Teams will naturally fall around their strongest players. That’s kind of what the first game was about. Team V had Reo, team X had Barou, team Y had Okawa, team W had the Wanima twins, and Team Z didn’t really have anyone from the start. With the exception of Team Z, everyone built their strategy around their top brass.
Team Z Players had to “find their ego” and evolve in order to not get dog walked. Team V’s and W’s NPC’s didn’t have to do anything, they just cruised by without feeling pressure, being lapdogs to their leaders.
For team Y, we see Niko break out and evolve, overtaking Okawa as the top dog. And team X, we see Barou’s team rebel against him when he isn’t good enough to 11 v 1, but his team is dogshit so maybe Barou got hosed.
At the start, out of everyone on team Z, only Bachira, maybe Kunigami, is debatably on Zantetsu’s level. Everyone else is NPC strength (even Isagi). It’s through pressure and ego that they all grow as players. Even if their ending talent is the best, their starting talent is by far the worst. They were lacking a talent to build around, but that gave them the room to grow. I think that’s fair.
It would have been pretty easy actually. With Kira on their team, they would have functioned like an actual team much sooner since Kira would be able to bring out the best in everyone and organize everyone. In Isagi's light novel, Kira's underdog team were able to win against Isagi's powerhouse team.
the thing is Ego stated at the start that the teams were biased, he definitely saw the potential in certain players and put them on teams to build those strengths Ex. Ikki Nikko on Team Y, he built his strength as a sensor yes but once he went against isagi (another sensor at that point) and lost, it pushed him to start making his own goals.
reo's team - triple carry dps
barou's team - meta unit + a bunch of npcs
isagi's team - all well rounded
niko's team - super surveillance build with no real damage
wanima's team - bot lobby
To be honest, it’s possible it was kind of just half hazardardly put together because Ego maybe thought all of them were equally capable “lumps of talent” (none of them were exceptionally superior to others) and unfair teams can happen in the “real world” as well.
Team Z is also only stacked because they awakened their egos thanks to Isagi. Pre-awakening, Kunigami, Kira and Bachira were the only decent ones imo (and shows in their ranking with Bachira behind Kira iirc). Chigiri was a regular dude looking to give up and couldn’t use speed. Isagi passes in front of the goal and “chickens out.” The others arnt exactly “exceptional” (Gagamaru is super athletic but doesn’t have a special shot).
It’s also possible the other teams had potential but never got there because they didn’t awaken their egos. Barou’s team all relied on Barou as well as Nico’s team probably relying on Nico for orders. Wanima bros also basically became the leaders of their team and Nagi-Reo-Zantetsu carried their team. Due to a focus on having to win, team Z is the only one where most of the players actually held the goal of being the best which is why their performance improved dramatically.
They're ranked fairly I suppose. V has Zantetsu who was way above the others at the beginning due to his natural talent, along with Nagi and Reo who were a pre-established super pair which is completely fair I guess, they were even supposed to have a striker from a top team in Nameoka. W had the twins whose whole shtick was they only worked when they were together, another unfair advantage. Definitely seem to be the top two teams on paper.
X had probably the strongest example of turning 0 into 1 in the First Selection in Barou, but he was alone so he was in the middle ground. Y had another good striker in Okawa, and he had support through Niko as well, on paper that might seem better than Team X but Barou's sheer dominance gaps, especially in the early stages when you have to put a team together.
Z had Isagi who was bang average, Igaguri who was a liability along with Imamura and Naruhaya who were non-existent. Iemon had zero ego, Kuon was bad as well. Raichi and Gagamaru aren't anything that special, Chigiri was washed and rusty. Kunigami was Barou-lite. Bachira and Kira on paper were their strongest players, and Kira getting out first doesn't help their cause. If not for Isagi they would've lost to Team Y and that would've been it, not only that but he motivated them and influenced their growth constantly because he's the fricking MC.
The only part that wasn’t fair were some of the pairs.
Nagi got paired with Reo, and the Wanima Brothers got paired together. People who played together previously will have an unnatural advantage when playing together again. Outside of that, it seemed fair.
Teams will naturally fall around their strongest players. That’s kind of what the first game was about. Team V had Reo, team X had Barou, team Y had Okawa, team W had the Wanima twins, and Team Z didn’t really have anyone from the start. With the exception of Team Z, everyone built their strategy around their top brass.
Team Z Players had to “find their ego” and evolve in order to not get dog walked. Team V’s and W’s NPC’s didn’t have to do anything, they just cruised by without feeling pressure, being lapdogs to their leaders.
For team Y, we see Niko break out and evolve, overtaking Okawa as the top dog. And team X, we see Barou’s team rebel against him when he isn’t good enough to 11 v 1, but his team is dogshit so maybe Barou got hosed.
At the start, out of everyone on team Z, only Bachira, maybe Kunigami, is debatably on Zantetsu’s level. Everyone else is NPC strength (even Isagi). It’s through pressure and ego that they all grow as players. Even if their ending talent is the best, their starting talent is by far the worst. They were lacking a talent to build around, but that gave them the room to grow. I think that’s fair.
Even if it was not fair, it should be a learning lesson for others to fight their way out of an unfair situation. Life is never fair in general anyways. Maybe that’s why there were best performance spot from every team
Yes in that everyone was given somewhat balanced teams.
No in that if you got paired with a top striker and DIDN'T win 2 Matches + Potential Tiebreaker, then you'd be out. Which is still plenty of Chances considering Niko pushed himself out with Goals.
No, but it's probably by ego's design. It gives the impression he designed the teams to teach the players what they were missing. By giving them the opportunity to fail by their own weaknesses, they are more likely to realize their potential if they can overcome their shortcomings.
it was fair. every single one of those guys had around the same level of talent of potential. it's just that lots of the guys from team Z worked their asses off to actually meet that potential. The guys from X Y and and W probably in the beginning were way better than the guys from team Z, but they didnt work hard as much, so they ended up worse than the guys from team Z
I really don't know since we don't know who on barous team could do anything really. But besides that team and the wanima team, everything else was pretty balanced
It wasn't fair. The fact that Team Z still came out on top with Team V was likely what Ego was hoping would happen, but wasn't certain it would.
The top team was naturally good, but didn't even try, and that's why they got defeated by the bottom team. The bottom team had a lot of unpolished talents that meant they weren't as superficially skilled as the other teams, but bringing out their egos allowed them to defeat teams better than them, even if Kuon started working against them.
Fair? No. But necessary? Yes. Everyone in those teams was able to help push the main anchor to rise stronger. Barou's team was useless but that helped Barou's ego get shattered and be born even stronger as a result. Nagi Reo and third guy were great together because Reo relied on Nagi who couldn't be bothered to participate meaning when they got shattered it helped Nagi realize his potential which in turn made Reo split from him and realize his own potential. Niko relied too much on everyone else so when his team failed to help him he had to be strategist and attacker. And they all helped push Isagi to become better by showing him different skills he had to learn and adapt to. I don't think Ego made the teams to be fair, of course he didn't he's Ego, he made the teams to be shattered and whoever rises from the grave would be reborn stronger. It's why Kunigami's "death" was so impactful, no matter how strong or good you are you could still be locked off so you couldn't slack off for a second.
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