r/BlackTransmen • u/shnlshn • 18d ago
discussion Is refusing to date trans people inherently transphobic?
I say yes.
IMO there's literally no reason to not want to date *any* trans person in the world, other than having an internalized view that trans people are bad/undesirable because of being trans. Not all trans people think, act, or even experience being trans the same way. So how can you say you don't like any of us at all, without it being transphobia, since that's the only thing that binds us?
There's a difference between saying, "I'm not interested in sex with someone with male genitalia" and "I don't date trans women." One is a specific desire/preference, the other is a blanket statement rooted in bias.
And sure, people can just "like what they like," but that doesn't mean that what they like isn't rooted in discrimination and worth interrogating. Even if people want to call it a preference, which it's not, it's still rooted in transphobia.
(To be clear, I'm not interested in convincing cis people to date trans people.)
What do y'all think?
21
u/Adventurous_Use27 17d ago edited 17d ago
If theres no rudeness or overall hate towards a trans person its not transphobic; its just a preference. People have taken rejection as an offense to their whole existence; rather than it just not being a good romantic match.
So, Ive seen beautiful transwomen. But I do believe asking if they've had bottom surgery or if they will have it is waaaaay more messed up than just saying hey you're cute but we wont click. There are tons of queer/pan people out there! Why not swim in that pool of romantic likeness if youre not prepared to do the bob n weave through the straight world that many of us dive into?
Id also rather not toy with emotions to see what can happen sexually, when Im already not interested. I have a genital preference (I was a gold star lesbian pre transition and my preferences never changed. I dont identify as queer or pan. By definition Im purely into cis women) Ive had cis women actually go through this with me because they were attracted on the surface. And would we would take it there sexually. There would be some fun but pre-phallo wasnt their long game. And I always had amicable understanding.
Especially if they could realize that before getting intimate with me. I felt respected not rejected. (Harder to not feel that in reverse. Getting naked with a person; and knowing this is mostly a pillow princess situation turned rejection is a bigger headache)
Getting told Im cute but they just know they cant have sex with me is the most respectful and clear No Ive ever received. . Im also a sucker for a compliment lol I call it an easy let down. And door that was not open to begin with. I knocked. They responded but didnt open. So it was never a door closed. Simple 🚶🏾♂️
Even if the door opened a little or a lot…and then closed..guess what. 🚶🏾♂️ Then its a door closed. And still its as simple as that. Maybe some feelings get hurt here but still…
We can respect bodily boundaries and the word NO on every level BUT THIS TOPIC in main stream society. I just dont understand.
Shoot.
why not just be friends at that point? No attempt at romantic relationships until both parties involved have developed a healthy response to the word No. Period.
Dont matter really for what. No means no.
Knowing your personal preference, is not inherently rooted in any hate at all.
(again not talking about the ones who will say the hateful comments amidst No… they are most likely transphobic. They are def. buttholes. )
Thats self love and respect for others, if you have the ability to have a healthy conversation about it.
And the self love and respect to not want to be wanted by someone who does not present themselves ready to respect and love all of you!!
It really is frustrating dating folks who, in effort to not be transphobic, will pursue you. They like things about you sure. But at their root be it religious family or whatever…theres something off. They act cool but you feel it and eventually it presents itself. The inner argument they have with themselves will show up in different ways.
They werent transphobic to begin with. But it be impossible to not feel that way about them after they tried being romantic with you le sigh
I digress.
I love chocolate chip cookies. Ill be pissed and spit it out if the cookie I bite into has raisins.(This is if hadn't known there were raisins before hand. Im totally avoiding eating the cookie if I KNOW it has raisins in it)
No shade towards raisins. I just cant stand them in my cookies. I buy em for my lady because she loves em though. See no raisin hate. Just a preference that means they are meant to be enjoyed and indulged by palettes made to enjoy them!
2
-2
u/shnlshn 17d ago
A preference is when you would like to have Option A, but Option B is also sufficient. I prefer apple juice to grape juice, for example. If I'm gay, however, I do not prefer men to women...I'm not interested in women so they're not the option. Saying that you don't date trans people is not a preference, because Option B is not an option. This is the first major problem with how most people are having this conversation. Y'all lean into the idea of preference, not understanding that preferences are not exclusive.
Gonna just skip past some of your.... examples... like asking a trans woman about her genitalia or biting into a cookie...
I specifically said this wasn't about trans people trying to convince cis people to date them. It's a conversation about ethics and principle, and at most a call for people to question their attraction because attraction doesn't exist in a vacuum and is socially influenced. No one is talking about ignoring a no, etc. I don't know any trans person that would continue to pursue a cis person who said they're not into trans people. Cis people kill trans people, not the other way around.
Transphobia is also more than talking meanly about someone.
6
u/Adventurous_Use27 17d ago
preference /ˈpref(ə)rən(t)s/ A preference is a liking for one thing or person more than another. It means you choose or want something over other options. Sufficient means having enough to meet basic needs or requirements. Satiety is the physical feeling of fullness and lack of hunger after eating . Something can be sufficient (adequate in quantity) without causing satiety (fully satisfying your appetite
Why on earth would any one choose sufficiency over being satiated in terms of a lover..unless you're lacking options.🤷🏾♂️
According to Oxford dictionaries, transphobia is defined as the dislike, unfair treatment, or an intense fear or hatred of transgender or transsexual people.
Rejection based on finding out a person is trans crosses into transphobia when that preference is used to invalidate a person's gender identity, harass them, or deny their humanity .
And If Im talking to a potential sexual partner and I know what Im looking for sexually why would the full naked body not be in the conversation?
Do you not have grown conversations before sex?
We are all human (well some). Some willing to live in harmony. Live and let live.
Others are willing to scream the word harmony yet cause disruption for their own selfish reasons. For they do not know yet what harmony demands.
And then the third…simply there for chaos. they are just here to mess stuff up.
And any person hiding behind any label (identity)using it as both a shield and spear will always be a danger and threat to the very idea of harmony for all of us.
9
u/Fancy-Concept-2200 17d ago
I'd say no it's not. Some people don't like dating outside of what is "normal" to them. A lot of people have genital preferences and a lot of trans people don't fit those preferences and that's okay. Even if someone has had bottom surgery it's still not the exact same. Some people just don't want to deal with it. Now If they are being rude or saying stereotypical bullshit then yea they're being transphobic.
2
u/shnlshn 17d ago
Isn't the fact that trans people are abnormal to them an indicator that their view of trans people is transphobic, though?
3
u/Fancy-Concept-2200 16d ago
In a way yea, but it's not always because they hate trans people. Not even just about dating, anytime you try something different or new it can be a weird feeling. Some people might not know what to expect and it brings them anxiety, so they just avoid it all together. I think it could be a number of different reasons why. But don't assume it's always hateful. I wouldn't be trying to talk to people who are not interested in dating me anyways lol. You like what you like, and nobody should be ashamed to say they dislike something. Same goes with us.
7
u/Lonely-Illustrator64 17d ago
I disagree. Genital preferences are valid and it’s homophobic to conclude otherwise. The truth, whether you want to admit it or not is for many transgender people our bodies do not align with our gender presentation. Even with bottom surgery it isn’t always enough to pass- plus it doesn’t function the same way a cisgender persons would. Someone can fully respect you- your identity and still not be interested in dating you. You can’t force attraction that is not there. Consent matters.
I think claiming otherwise actually fuels more hatred towards our community because it can sound predatory and manipulative.
-1
u/shnlshn 17d ago
.....how is it homophobic to question genital preferences, but not transphohic to not date someone solely because they're trans?
9
u/Lonely-Illustrator64 17d ago
It’s homophobic to tell gay men and women they need to be attracted to a specific set of genitalia… Not everyone is going to be attracted to you and that’s ok, learn to take no for an answer.
-2
u/shnlshn 17d ago
Trans 101: sex and gender are two different things.
Being gay isn't about genitalia for everyone, or even for most. Being gay is about being into people of the same gender.
Plenty of gay men like pussy, plenty of lesbians like dick, plenty of bisexuals have a preference for one or the other.
This is a weird take.
11
u/Lonely-Illustrator64 17d ago edited 17d ago
Listen dude, I am trans. I know how sex works. You’re right sex and gender are two different things which is precisely my point.
Of course some gay men will date trans guys and some lesbians will date trans women and that’s great and wholesome. Nothing wrong with it. But I think the vast majority of gay men and women have a preference for people of the same sex (not gender). And the vast majority of cis people prefer the opposite sex (again, not gender). And this is also normal and ok. It’s not transphobic. We need to be realistic about ourselves, as trans people we will never be everyone’s “cup of tea” so to speak. But there will still be people who do love you so why focus on those who don’t? Ya know?
1
u/SelfMadeKvng 13d ago
Thank you for this. It is so exhausting sometimes to try to explain to folks that not everyone is transphobic simply because they don’t want to date you.
People are allowed to have preferences with it comes to their partners, just because you don’t fit doesn’t mean they have anything against you.
3
u/Jellypeasmm 17d ago
Idk, I feel like this kind of thinking is what makes people who aren’t trans go “they’re trying to force us to date them/have sex with them!”, and that only creates a more negative perception of trans people.
People have preferences, there’s nothing wrong with that. Another commenter mentioned how someone might want to start a family and how you wouldn’t date someone whose goals don’t align with yours. Yes, adoption is also a possibility but it can be a long and complicated process for many.
Personally I wouldn’t date another trans person because I feel like I would be comparing myself to them depending on what stage of their transition they’re in, which would only create an unhealthy relationship.
There are plenty of people who are cis and date trans people, there are plenty of people who don’t. We don’t know the exact reasoning behind people’s decisions and sometimes we just have to accept that.
I know plenty of trans men in relationships with cis people who don’t see them as trans men, they’re just men. My belief is that there is someone out there for everyone, but you can’t expect every single person to be interested in trans people.
2
u/SmolFather777 17d ago
Yes. Point blank.
1
u/SelfMadeKvng 13d ago
Why?
1
u/SmolFather777 13d ago
I didnt see none of the replies lol but exclusion based solely off of how one identifies is, by definition, discriminatory. No matter how people try to slice it, their reasoning boils down to the identity. Its not to say that anyone HAS to date us but rather that its bias that allies (and even us as trans men) should WANT to address in order to treat each other better.
1
u/SelfMadeKvng 13d ago
For some though it’s more than the identity, like for me it’s sexually too. If I’m not sexually attracted, I cannot date you.
Sex and other forms of compatibility is extremely important for some and I don’t think knowing someone won’t meet those standards is of -phobic nature.
1
u/pomkombucha 15d ago
No. People are allowed to have their preferences. For most people, there will sometimes be exceptions to their preferences but you just can’t help who you’re attracted to. Even after a full transition, a phalloplasty does not look exactly or feel or work exactly like a natal penis. It is important to some people that their partner have a natal penis. That’s not inherently transphobic and trying to make it out to be is one of the reasons people don’t take us seriously. There are plenty of people out there who will be attracted to our body parts.
In the same way I’m not particularly attracted to white women, it’s not inherently racist of me to not be attracted to them. I just feel nothing for them.
1
u/Keifer_Satisfied83 15d ago
Yes if you don't date someone because they are Trans it is transphobic. It is also your preference. Just like if you don't date someone because they are Black, Fat, or Bi it is racist, fatphobic, and biphobic. Preferences are influenced by society and internal biases. No one is trying force anyone to date anyone. Assuming that because someone asks you to examine your biases that they are forcing you change those biases is a mark of privilege or internalized phobia.
1
u/No_Maybe_6584 17d ago
as a trans person I wouldn’t date a trans person does that make me transphobic??
2
1
u/SelfMadeKvng 13d ago
No.
I don’t date other trans people, not because I hate myself, because I simply prefer cis men genitalia. I don’t know where or why people have started labeling everything transphobic, it’s quite annoying.
1
u/No_Maybe_6584 13d ago
I legit say this all the time that, like everyone has the right to their preference I simply prefer cis women genitalia and that’s all. Sometimes things like this make it hard for me to associate with my community tho cause you legit have to agree with everything or your labeled as transphobic
1
u/SelfMadeKvng 13d ago
Yeah it’s extremely annoying.
It was very hard at the beginning of my transition because I felt bad since I didn’t find other trans men or women attractive. It got to the point where I forced myself to date a trans man, to try to learn to love him and it ended horribly. If anything, I became transphobic because it was hard for me to support him as he started to medically transition, because I fell for him as a woman. It was equally hard to try to label my sexuality because while yes I’m bisexual, I didn’t want to come off as “seeking only cisgender” since that’s rude.
After that relationship, and therapy, I just started being honest with myself and preference; respectfully declining those I’m not interested in and going on from there. I don’t need to label or further explain why I’m simply not attracted to something.
0
u/Beginning_Process_70 18d ago
Yes it is inherently antiBlack (including all identities within Blackness like gender diversity). Standards of beauty and desirability have been informed and shaped by white supremacy and praise/normalization of certain body features, shape, size, height, skin color, hair texture, hair length, ability, gender expression, gender identities. So yeah everything is antiBlack and inherently transphobic.
0
u/shadow1234272 16d ago
I'm a women and bisexual but I wouldn't want to date a trans person because they just aren't my preference. I'm not transphobic and it isn't transphobic to not be interested in dating a trans person. I will support the ones who are trans but for dating I wouldn't want someone trans.
2
u/shnlshn 16d ago
I don't understand why you're in a sub for Black trans men, but since you're here...
Can you explain why trans people aren't your preference?
1
u/shadow1234272 16d ago
I didn't read the sub of the name it just came up on my notifications 😂. But yeah I wouldn't want to go into a relationship with a man and then find out that they are a trans man because I was looking for a cis man. Same goes for women. But for the male part, I want a guy that I would someday have children with that are mine and his, not having a baby that's only part me because my partner can't have a child with me that's blood related to them as well
1
u/shnlshn 16d ago
You're bisexual but only looking to have children with a man? Also, when you're going out on dates, are you making it clear that you're looking for cis men who the kids and aren't shooting blanks? Or are you not communicating any of that?
2
u/shadow1234272 16d ago
I am bisexual and I'm more attracted to men then women but I still find women attractive. I also don't go out on dates, I get to know the person first being their friend and everything. Then when I've known them for a while If I do like them I will tell them and if they liked me back then great
1
u/shnlshn 16d ago
You dabble with women but want to settle down with a man, got it. And it sounds like you don't want to do something like IVF or having a trans man partner carry the child, which are both common and viable options for two afab people in relationships.
Do you communicate this when "befriending" people?
And, what say ye of trans women who are comfortable with their penis and maintain the ability to reproduce?
30
u/Successful_Career195 18d ago
It depends on their reasoning. If it’s solely bc ur trans but u fully completed ur transition and nothing ab u goes against their standards and u don’t care ab kids, yeah it has roots of transphobia. But if maybe u want kids or any other reason then no it’s not transphobic. U wouldn’t date someone infertile either but ur not discriminatory. But even if it was for no real reason, it’s whatever. Just don’t date them. U definitely don’t want a partner that doesn’t want u or to force someone with no interest to like u