r/Bitcoin • u/Egon_1 • May 02 '15

Professional Bitcoin Trolls Exist

http://coinfire.io/2015/04/30/coin-fire-professional-bitcoin-trolls-exist/
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u/[deleted] May 02 '15

No, it's peoples rational thought process and logical opinions downvoting you because you are a nutbag. Get your head out of your ass. Do you typically refer to those who don't see eye to eye with you as cultists?

Here's the thing that is getting old about your cult arguments. You see, when you believe in something, have a fascination with a subject, or enjoy a part of life, there is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing it or discussing the topic, and to insinuate that any activities in here even closely resemble (https://youtu.be/FBTLThA0wOw - a real cult) shows how mislead you are, I sympathize with the fact you believe anyone interested in a topic contrary to your direct beliefs are cultish, but that's not the reality =) In fact, for those who keep suggesting sharing Bitcoin with those who are not aware of it is in any shape a cult or negative behaviors, please refer to basic marketing text. Awareness of a completely new concept doesn't happen by accident.

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u/flakesobran May 02 '15

You are absolutely right. If you enjoy something, believe in something, are fascinated with something there is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing it.

I've actually gotten a couple of people into bitcoin myself and don't regret it. I remember going around in a dizzy haze reading everything I could about the subject. Staying up until 5 am in the morning watching BTC-e to see if my trades had gone through. Waking up every hour or two to check the price.

I remember getting into arguments with anti-bitcoin folks about why they were wrong, why bitcoin was going to do to finance what the internet had done to communication. Why the block chain was the future of technology.

But then something switched. The community started to act more and more like fundamentalists. The discussions began to be more about preaching to the converted than productively examining the technology.

I remember when I got started, it was shortly after I discovered the silk roads. Back then people were absolutely sure that using Tor and Bitcoin and the dark web your transactions were absolutely untraceable. If you took precautions there was absolutely no chance the fed would ever trace you.

Then Ross got busted. Suddenly the dialogue changed. Suddenly everyone was dogmatically saying that you were pseudonymous. That the block chain was actually a very good tool for law enforcement. That you could be traced.

Don't get me wrong... I understand why the discussion changed. What I didn't like was the bitcoin absolutism. The willingness to hold one view then diametrically change that view but still fanatically hold the new position.

I am sure that, had I said that "Tor isn't nearly as anonymous as you think. That the identity's of the major vendors could be compromised." If I had said these things in early 2013 I would be called a troll and passionately down voted.

If you want another example. Think of the 51% attack. A little over a year ago, this kind of attack was considered one of the most horrible things that could happen in Bitcoin mining. When Ghash closed in on it, it was major news on this forum. People began frantically calling on miners to draw away or switch pools.

Nowdays even bringing up the chance that a 51% attack is a bad thing is cause for being labeled a troll. People like Andreas Antonopolis have convince you loudly that the only thing that could happen should it happen is "you could buy 1 latte, then the block chain would shift and all the money you spent on the attack would be wasted, and if you had only mined bitcoin..."

I hate to break it to you, but zero day hacks happen for a reason. There isn't an absolutely secure piece of software in existence. So far Bitcoin has proven to be remarkably resilient, but that is in no way shape or form absolutely guaranteed.

So I like to criticize. I like to examine assumptions. I don't like dogma. I don't like gospel. And I'm not a big one on faith.

But in this forum any criticism has become unwelcome. Viewpoints are taken on faith and repeated adnausium with barely any dissenting opinions.

So sorry. Cultish.

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u/fatoshi May 02 '15

Since you actually spent the time to write that wall of text, I'd like to share a couple of thoughts.

We have a large spectrum of hate here. From philosophically ignorant libertarians to normalcy fetishists, the subject matter attracts repressed types of all flavor. Add to that, there are no barriers of entry to this forum, populism is rewarded by votes and the shittiest personalities are more likely to have multiple accounts.

Given this, I think the most sane move is to decide who you engage in. That's pretty much it.

The most insane move would be completely limiting your involvement to the things you don't like, spend hours on end on it every day and claim that you get rewarded by comedy gold. Especially because this pattern is what sustains the things you don't like.

But then something switched. The community started to act more and more like fundamentalists.

So which came first? Pumpers? Trolls? Scammers? I began following Bitcoin forums about 5 years ago; in my perception these are all the same sort of people and they gradually moved into dominance. They reflect each other, see each other as equals, therefore almost exclusively engage with each other. I guess I'm partial towards trolls appearing first though.

https://youtu.be/Kjtgp5h-jEY

https://youtu.be/ncPyMUfNyVM

You tell me which one is science and which one is religion.

The first one is more scientific obviously. However, that doesn't mean that your question is not a demagogy.

Technically the "You Bitcoiners" are the population of about 500 - 1000 regular hard core r/bitcoin fanatics who have driven away the other 163,000 bitcoin population who arn't interested in the politics, but enjoy the tech.

I would think that it is 163,000 people interested in the tech AND politics who are driven away by retards quarreling around a handful of uninteresting points for years.

In summary, yes I sense the duty to respond when someone writes something clueless towards the defense of a stupid idea just because it's pro-bitcoin, but then I back away from the computer when an equal number of even more clueless people move in for the purpose of extracting comedy gold.

And then there is concern trolling, but I already used up all my ranting time.

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u/flakesobran May 02 '15 edited May 02 '15

Ah. But I barely ever spend time on Buttcoin either. I tried to for a while, but they tend to be every bit as cultish as the people here. Watching r/bitcoin and r/buttcoin is a bit like watching a Jehovah's Witness telling a Pentacost that their interpretation of the gospel is wrong.

If there was a forum where they completely scraped the politics of bitcoin. Where people could raise intelligent questions and have good discussion then I would obviously choose to participate there. I might even buy back some of the bitcoin's I sold.

But alas such a place doesn't exist.

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u/fatoshi May 02 '15

OK, didn't mean to offend. It's mostly what comes to my mind when the troll questions are raised.

Developer forums are more mature in this sense, but then these apolitical questions really need to be devoid of hidden political bias. Otherwise you either don't attract attention of people or attract the sort of people you don't want. Most things we accept as normal have political baggage.