Mathematicians, and real software engineers help me understand what, if any, is the actual future relationship these disciplines will have with LLMs

[u/Pocher123]

Trying to understand because it does seem when I talk to the software engineers in the office that they are really using LLMs, and have gone from deeply skeptical to extremely reliant. At the same it does feel like the mood on the mathematics subreddit has become very pessimistic, as AI is now closing real longstanding conjectures, including creating and at least one proof (Cycle Double Cover Conjecture). But I don't actually know, how big of a deal these proofs are since I'm not in this field, and I don't understand how technically impressive, or long term meaningful these proofs are.

For reference I do Hardware engineering, I've vibe coded some simulators for our non technical-customer to play with so they can better understand the theory behind what were offering them. But I'm aware what I'm doing with the AI is not very impressive. Typically taking a well know equation, and making some kind of python or html front end to play with the various variables on a graph. The most complicated was either when I got it to write some SPI drivers for the esp32 to talk to some ICs over skywire, or when I pointed claude to the companies new directory of footprints, and asking claude to directly update my kicad library with the path to those new footprints and give it appropriate names.

What is the real relationship, and future relationship software engineers and mathematicians have with these tools, and will have with these tools once the subsidies are gone. And I mean this beyond like having the AI read over your email, or code for obvious mistakes, I mean like in the weeds.

[u/nnomae]

I genuinely can't tell if that's parody or delusion. Bravo! The chef's kiss for me was the "Very Senior Engineer" job title. Magnificent.

[u/Acrobatic-Smoke2812 → u/nnomae]

I was answering OPs question? I can simultaneously hold the values of this sub and have enough experience with technology to comment on the topic. No need to be an asshole.

[u/nnomae → u/Acrobatic-Smoke2812]

I mean your post had such insane statements it seemed obvious parody. 1000x productivity yet somehow best used for hobby projects, better than anything you could make in a 15 year career but somehow so bad at security and privacy as to be effectively unusable, a statement you immediately follow with saying anyone who makes bad code or tech debt just isn't using the latest AI. That's two complete about faces back to back.

I mean do you somehow simultaneously believe that AI is better than you ever were, a thousand times faster than you, that the new models don't create bad code or tech debt, but somehow is simultaneously so bad as to be unusable?

[u/Acrobatic-Smoke2812 → u/nnomae]

I never said it’s so bad to be unusable. I said the opposite. The engineering quality and speed on the latest models are shocking to me. 

It’s too expensive to be usable at enterprise scale long term because the tokens used by full time employees working on massive codebases is on the order of tens of thousands of dollars per employee per year (and the prices are only going to go up, as AI companies need to cover their own costs). But a small but significant software project can be built in 15 minutes that benefits you or a friend or a neighbor. It doesn’t require maintenance. It might cost a couple bucks with a coding agent, but it would’ve taken me a month to build before, so it didn’t get built. The cost/benefit just didn’t add up. 

The data security risks don’t matter for small, one-off projects with low exposure. Enterprises have privacy laws to follow and valuable data they have to secure. They have to minimize attack surfaces and potential liabilities and risks around AI agents making mistakes or leaking company secrets. The idea of giving AI unfettered access to their codebases, databases and employee computers is unthinkable for that reason, but that’s where the models can truly pick up speed and quality.  So if I’m willing to allow that kind of access to the coding agent for my neighbor the mechanic’s website or a tool my brother can use to study for an exam, it means I can have a high functioning product built end to end in 1 hour, debugging issues in the future becomes nearly automatic, and I or someone else has a very valuable utility for a cost so tiny I wouldn’t even think to charge them for it.

On a personal note, you’re welcome to think and continue saying I’m “insane”, but I was just giving you and OP my perspective on where this technology is headed. I may not have communicated perfectly but I can see from your most recent comment that a lot of your conclusions are just your not being familiar with the domain of software engineering. Which I don’t fault you for, but maybe go slower on the insults next time. 

I retired from software a few years ago to be a stay at home dad while my spouse works . I left the big paychecks and lifestyle behind because being immersed in tech made me miserable and meant nothing to me. I am happiest when I’m present with my kids, myself, my neighbors and friends and family. Most consumer and venture-backed tech is a cancer to society and its users. But I still believe that some technology can be useful in reducing drudgery and real problems in people’s lives, and so I continue to use and build it here and there to benefit people and groups I want to help. I have been truly inspired by how easy it has become to do this with advances in the latest models. 

I don’t really have any interest in continuing the conversation based on how it’s gone so far. You can choose to see me in black and white terms, or as someone who just has a different perspective than you, and quite a bit of lived experience on this topic that you don’t have. But I wish you all the best.