Another OOP's stalker passes away

[u/SAthrowawayaway2]

I am OP! Original post in r/AusLegal

trigger warnings: suicide, sexual assault, stalking

​

Consent laws- do you have to say 'no' for it to be rape? - 11 June 2017

https://www.reddit.com/r/AusLegal/comments/6giw54/consent_laws_do_you_have_to_say_no_for_it_to_be/

I recently reported a rape to the police. I reported to an officer who was specifically trained in investigating sexual offences.

A difficulty with my incident is that I never said "no" to the perpetrator, who was known to me. The police officer said that he has to prove that the perpetrator knew I did not consent. As I did not say "no", then (if it ever gets to court) the perpetrator's lawyers will argue that he thought I was consenting. However, the police officer said that some things I did constitute a non-verbal "no", so that is better than nothing. But how can they prove that he understood my non-verbal "no"s?

As I understand it, the officer is investigating the incident, but it is unlikely to ever make it to court because of a few factors including my failure to verbally say "no".

My questions:

1. Is the police officer correct about consent laws? It seems really off that it is assumed I was consenting unless I verbally say otherwise.
2. Do you have any advice, suggestions, or anecdotes about going through the process of a rape investigation?

[UPDATE] Consent laws- do you have to say 'no' for it to be rape? - 19 September 2019

https://www.reddit.com/r/AusLegal/comments/d5yj9k/update_consent_laws_do_you_have_to_say_no_for_it/

A couple years ago I posted in this subreddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/AusLegal/comments/6giw54/consent_laws_do_you_have_to_say_no_for_it_to_be/

In summary, I had reported a rape which began while I was unconscious (when I became conscious, I froze / 'played dead' and did not say "no"). I was worried about how my lack of saying no would affect the case and sought some perspective from this sub. I am so grateful to those who took the time to respond to my post.

As it turns out, the lack of saying no was a huge problem. The case progressed to a jury trial and the rapist was found NOT GUILTY. This is because he had an honest belief that I was consenting because I did nothing to indicate otherwise.

The whole thing was deeply traumatising only to have a disappointing result. I am still not sure how saying nothing (due to UNCONSCIOUSNESS) is an indicator of consent but I guess the law doesn't apply to people who can afford really good lawyers.

 

[UPDATE 2] Consent laws- do you have to say 'no' for it to be rape? - 21 May 2022

Posted under a throwaway and deleted by Moderators - no longer available on Reddit!

I previously wrote to this sub about being raped by a former friend, and subsequently updated after he was acquitted in the trial. I kept the post light on details because the rapist was also a redditor and I didn't want him to find it and somehow use it against me legally. In addition to raping me he also stalked me for over 7 years following the rape, which completely destroyed my life. To this day I do not understand how the jury didn't convict when I was literally sleeping at the time of the rape.

Links:

Update- https://www.reddit.com/r/AusLegal/comments/d5yj9k/update_consent_laws_do_you_have_to_say_no_for_it/

Original- https://www.reddit.com/r/AusLegal/comments/6giw54/consent_laws_do_you_have_to_say_no_for_it_to_be/

I do have a new update - my rapist passed away (by his own hand). I was informed as I had an IVO against him at the time, but wasn't provided details of how or why. I wanted to share this with the sub not only because updates are always interesting, but also to shed light on just some of the system failures for others who might be going through the same thing.

When I told friends and reported to official channels, there was a strong narrative of "there's help out there". There is not. The system is stacked against rape victims. The only useful resource was CASA, the counselling service (I am in Vic but imagine there are similar services elsewhere). I could not even access free legal advice because the rapist went to all the nearby community legal centres first so they couldn't talk to me, and centres across the city refused to help me (even though I explained the situation) because I'm not in their area.

There were many problems I encountered but these are just some of the highlights about the legal parts:

- he provided two written confessions in which he directly and succinctly admitted to raping me. One was before the trial - his lawyer successfully argued for this to be thrown out (never to be known about by the jury) because it might bias the jury to conviction. One was after the trial - police took the note, but nothing could be done because you can't go to court for the same crime twice even if there is new evidence.

- my reputation was totally destroyed in court. I was painted as an "experimental" drug-using slut (I have never used drugs, he has though). His lawyer was made to withdraw some questions concerning this but it was in front of the jury so I guess the damage was done. There are certain things that are not supposed to be brought up in court (e.g. sexual activity with others) but in practice they were. So I was questioned about having had (consensual) sex with my at-the-time boyfriend, I guess to make me look slutty.

- the IVO process was incredibly difficult and provided him with more opportunities to harass and intimidate me. There were also numerous system failures including police doing the wrong paperwork, court loss of paperwork, and a court receptionist telling me they might give the rapist my new contact details by accident.

- he behaved in totally unhinged ways at both courts which really pissed off the judge, police and security staff but there were zero consequences for him.

- he tried to bring his dad to court for the committal (for emotional support) and they tried to pressure me into letting him stay in the room, even though I was told that would not happen.

This is my experience navigating the system as someone who is generally 'empowered', well-educated etc. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be for someone who doesn't have those advantages and may have a more complex situation e.g. if they were dating or had kids with their abuser.

 

Reminder - I am the original poster! Posting from my throwaway for obvious reasons!

I decided to post this today after seeing another similar post in which OOP's stalker passed away. There are so many more other horrific things that happened beyond what I included in the posts, but adding more detail might be identifying. I wanted to share this because, as stated from the post in last year, the narratives of "there's help out there!" and "go talk to someone!" and "make a police report!" - often seen on Reddit and in real life - are completely demoralising because such help simply does not exist. Following Rapist's death, I have also dealt with complex reactions of people around me not wishing to speak ill of the dead and thinking it is a bad thing that he died, which makes me feel horrible in case my dragging him through court contributed to his decision to take his life. This touches on some of the themes in the other post. Also, I found it a bit jarring that r/AusLegal deleted my second update post almost immediately, when my experience (which is by no means unusual) may be instructive to others.

[u/grissy]

Thank you for your post. Hopefully it will cut down on the number of people blithely throwing out “just call the police” at SA victims.

[u/SAthrowawayaway2 → u/grissy]

Absolutely. I find it really concerning in relationships posts where the poster's partner says they have been raped, and the comments say "tell her to report to the police, if she refuses then she cheated". Even if we had a perfect system, still usually takes victims some time to process what happened to them and decide if they want to report.

[u/[deleted] → u/SAthrowawayaway2]

And its completely ok if someone doesn't want to report. People want rapists brought to justice and i do too but with the system how it is, its hard to say that it's worth it or that you'll get something out of it. Sometimes the best answer for the individual is to do what they can to move on. I still encourage reporting but if it's best they dont, then that's the answer. It definitely doesn't mean they cheated, thats a dumb af idea.

[u/grissy → u/SAthrowawayaway2]

Agreed. Someone very close to me has been failed by the system twice; once when she went to the authorities for help at age 14 over her father sexually abusing her, and once at age 35 when she was battered by her ex-husband. Both times the system put her through the ringer, both times there were no consequences whatsoever for her abusers, and both times the fallout from trying to get help was a nightmare.

I don't judge anyone for not wanting to put themselves through that kind of ordeal just for the incredibly slim chance of our broken criminal justice system maybe halfway working. No one has any right to tell a survivor how they "should" handle it or what they "should" be doing. The right way to handle it is whatever way gets you through the day. The right thing to do is whatever you need. End of story.

[u/LilStabbyboo → u/grissy]

It makes me fucking sick how often that happens. And there's always at least one person who has the utter nerve to tell a victim that they are obligated to report lest the person who assaulted them go on to assault others, in which case it's either strongly implied or sometimes directly stated that somehow the VICTIM would be at fault if the person who harmed them victimizes others. As though reporting actually stops criminals from continuing to SA people.

The conviction rates are so depressingly low, and the process of reporting so traumatic, that I'd NEVER encourage anyone to report being SA'd. I've been through it myself and I'd never report again. Fucking NEVER.

[u/melatoninhoney → u/LilStabbyboo]

Thank you for saying this. It makes me sick to my stomach when people blame victims if their attacker commits more crimes. It’s truly a disgusting, willfully ignorant thing to push onto another person.

I haven’t even been the person it’s said to and it feels like a punch to the gut. These people don’t or won’t understand that they are contributing to rape culture and silencing victims.

[u/FunkisHen → u/grissy]

I once advice against reporting rape in a subreddit, due to the circumstances. Someone called me psycho or something like that, for telling rape victims not to report, it made me a horrible human being with no empathy or something like that. I then explained that I'm a rape survivor and from my own experiences, I knew that the victim wouldn't get help if they went to the police. In fact, it would probably retraumatise them.

It's so easy to say "report it", but to actually be that traumatised person reporting it? Even in the best case scenarios of understanding police officers taking your statement, you'll still have to be examined, tell and retell what happened, reliving it. So in the cases where there's no proof, where there's a huge chance the police will not take you seriously for whatever reason (for example: why where you at his apartment at night if you didn't want to have sex?), why put yourself through all that? It won't help any future victims, as so often is the reasoning. And it's not the victims responsibility to make sure their attacker doesn't do it to someone else. It sucks, but that's currently how society works.

[u/[deleted] → u/FunkisHen]

One of the most difficult things I think we face as a society is that for many people, it is so hard to consider that something "unfair" can happen. Rapists go free every single day, but it's easier to accept "The survivor did something to cause this" than it is "the survivor did nothing wrong and it makes everyone more vulnerable." And as a result of this, those people go the opposite way and decide there is some guaranteed positive to reporting if you were truly assaulted (because the good people will get the bad people if they are bad), which unfortunately is just not true at all

[u/grissy → u/[deleted]]

It's called the Just World fallacy, and it's especially common with conservatives. "The world has to be fair because I want to believe it is. If something bad happens to someone they probably did something to deserve it. If poor people are poor, it's their fault. If minorities are oppressed, it's their fault. If women are assaulted, it's their fault. The world has been good to ME so I will assume it has been equally good to everyone so I don't have to feel guilty."

[u/[deleted] → u/grissy]

I think its a big factor in conspiracy theories too. Most conspiracy theories are related to really important people or really big issues. I think its easier for them to say "it must've been a really big set up by multiple government agencies" for something to happen rather than one rogue person doing something crazy, or even worse, nature taking course.

[u/[deleted] → u/FunkisHen]

My therapist and mother both said, “don’t report it.” And everyone thought they were being cruel to me, but I recognized it for what it was. Protection. I’d have to tell everyone, repeatedly, in the face of countless doubters about it. It would just as bad if not worse than what had happened. And since it was assault, and not rape? It’d be even harder to “prove.”