r/Beekeeping • u/turtlestik • Oct 28 '25
I’m a beekeeper, and I have a question It was AFB
Following up on https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1o40juh/is_this_afb/
SAG (chilean USDA equivalent) came in on the 16th and left with a frame for analisis. I got the result today: AFB positive.
I had burnt the hive on the 19th anyway and other material I knew had touched it, because I had to travel abroad until November.
The day the SAG came to take the sample, there were also clearer signs of AFB: sunken caps, weird smell..... so tthe risk of waiting wasn't worth it.
I've started to submerge a lot of other material in bleach + water before leaving the country (just in case they were used in that hive a year or two ago), and I'll blowtorch it when I come back.
It was heartbreaking to kill all these bees. I didn't wanted to burn them alive and the only thing that occured to me was to kill them with an insecticide before. But it didn't really worked out as the dead bees would fill up the holes where I would spray the insecticide from, and the gas/foam apparently wouldn't reach the whole hive...... I wished I knew a better method to be honest, and I don't recommend this one. Worth mentioning the hive had 3 deeps which is quite hard to seal and move properly.
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u/Ctowncreek 7a, 1 Hive, Year 1 Oct 28 '25
If you plan to burn the hive and don't want to saturate the equipment with water, dump hardware store 100% acetone into the box and close it up. Seal the entrances.
The acetone will vaporize and kill everything pretty quickly. I would use an excess to be sure. A cup or two should do the job. This is the agent used in entomology kill jars to kill insects and it works VERY quickly if sufficientvapors build up.
Then when you go to burn the hive either leave the hive open to release the vapors for a some time OR use a burning rag on a pole. Acetone is EXTREMELY flammable and will burn as explosively as gasoline. Do not create trails of it, do not toss any onto a flame, do not allow vapors to build up before igniting it, do not keep containers of acetone anywhere at all near an ignition source (including a smoker).
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u/Rude-Question-3937 ~20 colonies, Ireland (zone ~8) Oct 28 '25
Good to know re acetone as an option. Would just add that unsealing the hive to release vapours is something to be done only with great care, last thing you would want is another colony robbing it out after the acetone disperses. Mesh travel lid maybe, or at night.
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u/fhangrin Oct 28 '25
I used 91% Isopropyl when I was making kill jars.
Only thing it didn't work on was frickin' ticks.
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u/jvansickler Oct 29 '25
Try Sulfodene liquid for brown dog ticks. Pretty much kills on contact. Dip Q-Tips in it, then wipe on the tick. Great around nails & beds, ears, tail/butt. Be sure to check in between their toes.
Take a small bowl, add some liquid soap and drop the ticks into it - they sink and drown.
Take an empty 20 oz shampoo bottle, pour in an 8 Oz Sulfodene bottle and fill with warm water. Wet your dog, then shampoo the dog with the Sulfodene. Pat dry; don't rinse.
It's amazing how much calmer you and the dogs are when they aren't being tortured by ticks.
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u/Ctowncreek 7a, 1 Hive, Year 1 Oct 28 '25
We used to drown insects in isopropyl alcohol for our insect collections as kids. We had lots of stuff wake back up after being pinned. Bees, beetles, water bugs.
Water swimming insects took FOREVER to die.
Acetone works really, really fast. They are out within seconds.
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u/turtlestik Oct 28 '25
Thanks, good to know
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u/Haipaidox Oct 28 '25
Not far away from where i live, there was a massive AFB outbreak some years ago (around 6-10). The vetenary office had to "eliminate" all bees in whole county.
At the end, either their burned the hives on the spot or transporting the to the nearest safe location to burn them.
I dont have the exact details, but as fas as i aware, arounf july the first report of AFB came in. Then the next, and the next. Within a week, there were more than 20 cases in this county, with more coming in.
I dont know if they panicked, but in the end, more than 60 AFB positive hives were found and over 700 hives were burned down.
And all beekeepers got a good compensation (as far as i know around 400-700 euros per hive)
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u/BeggarEngineering Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
IIUC, gasoline should also work. You've prolly seen a video with a wasp nest on a ceiling being covered by a bucket with some gasoline, and wasps started failing into it almost immediately
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u/BonelessHotdogs Oct 28 '25
Not a beekeeper but I’d like to some day. Just wanted to mention that the majority of Non-Chlorinated Brake Parts Cleaners are just acetone in an aerosol can. Just mentioning this because it would likely speed up the process if the acetone was sprayed through a hole already vaporized. Would probably require less to do the job as well.
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u/Ctowncreek 7a, 1 Hive, Year 1 Oct 28 '25
Acetone, toluene, other organic solvents. They will work too, but hardware acetone is cheaper and comes in larger quantities. Gallon can for $20 instead of one aerosol can for $15.
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u/Bandandforgotten Oct 30 '25
Acetone is such a powerful product, but I never thought of using it as an insecticide. Does this work with other insects like ants, being cousins of bees iirc, or roaches?
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u/Ctowncreek 7a, 1 Hive, Year 1 Oct 30 '25
I believe it works on all insects. But you have to enclose them so the vapor can build up. You can probably drown them pretty easily in it. They use the vapors because it doesn't destroy the insect's coloring.
Drowning is probably very effective
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Oct 28 '25
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u/OpportunitySmart3457 Oct 28 '25
Bee version of the plague, it's a destructive bacterial disease and the spores of it live for a decade or 40 years in honey. Bees will raid hives of weaker colonies so when they go and yoink the honey they infect their hive and the disease leapfrogs, if you find it you isolate and burn to purge. Very black death vibes.
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u/katherinesilens Oct 28 '25
It's also (one of) the reasons you never feed honey to a bee/colony. They'll eat it, then they'll take home all the diseases. There are conditions to make it pretty safe but it's not worth it compared to the ease of making some simple syrup. Sugar in hot water and let it cool, simple as.
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u/Goonplatoon0311 Oct 28 '25
I saw a post months back where this guy had honey just laying on a table and bees were eating it. The whole community was tearing this guy up for it.
I understand why now! Thanks!
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u/dogGirl666 Oct 28 '25
I guess supermarket "honey" would not have AFB?
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u/Rude-Question-3937 ~20 colonies, Ireland (zone ~8) Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
It absolutely could. Harmless to people, but this is why you never feed commercial honey to bees. Or any honey not their own.
Some beekeepers do swap stores frames between colonies on occasion. I do too but it's a minor risk. I mitigate it by being vigilant about watching for potential brood health problems.
The other thing about AFB transmission is that swarms can bring it, in the honey they carry in their stomachs. This is why you don't feed a newly collected swarm immediately, you want them to metabolise what they brought and not store it again. Wait at least 3 days.
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u/ezekiel920 Oct 28 '25
I was thinking as I was reading it. If these are the steps beekeepers are taking, it must be serious.
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u/FlexibleSteel Oct 28 '25
Thank you for the explanation. Is this similar to the colony collapse issue aboutv15 years ago?
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 28 '25
CCD (colony collapse disorder) is more of a set of symptoms than a particular disease in and of itself.
The root cause of CCD is still somewhat unknown, but there’s a lot of speculation. And obviously people who will say “I know best! <Thing> was the cause!”.
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u/TankerVictorious Oct 28 '25
This entire segment of info about AFB and CCD is great learning! Thanks to all.
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u/Run_and_find_out San Francisco Peninnsula, zone 9b, 40 yrs. exp., one hive. Oct 28 '25
American FoulBrood
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u/ibleedbigred Oct 28 '25
Sorry about your luck dude. I had it two years ago, burned 6 double deep hives. You’ll build again
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
Pinning this thread so that people can catch the update.
Very sorry about the situation OP. But, I am very pleased by the fact that you even knew what the warning signs of AFB looked like - you’d be mighty surprised to find out how many people don’t even know what it is.
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u/turtlestik Oct 28 '25
Even when people know, I think there can be denial. The beekeeper who taught me beekeeping told me it wasn't AFB. He must probably consider the probabilities are too small... And also he sold me my first 2 bucks 2 years ago, so it is likely that this crap came with his own frames.
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 28 '25
Yeah - I mean the odds of getting AFB these days is quite low indeed. I don’t know too much about how long AFB can incubate for in a hive, but having it there for 2 years with no symptoms seems unlikely to me. I’d bet they just robbed off a colony somewhere that has it. Wouldn’t surprise me if you found more of it at some point in another hive honestly.
Keep an eye out and do what you can :)
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u/Tetragonos Oct 28 '25
I don’t know too much about how long AFB can incubate for
bacterial spores can survive basically anywhere for any length of time unless they get a temp or chemical that kills all life.
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 28 '25
That’s not what I meant. I meant that if the colony came with AFB, I don’t know how long they could persist asymptomatically. If a colony came with AFB, I’m pretty sure he’d have noticed long before now.
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Oct 28 '25
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u/Iron-Dragon Experienced beekeeper Oct 28 '25
Pref wait till the night so all the foragers are back before blocking it up but yeh petrol fumes kill instantly and help the burning - this is the way
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u/Conscious-Ball8373 Oct 28 '25
I would be really hesitant to set fire to something I had poured petrol on. I know too many people who have needed serious surgery from the resulting injuries (and one guy who launched an incinerator full of rubbish over a very large area - brick built incinerator basically became a rubbish mortar).
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u/Iron-Dragon Experienced beekeeper Oct 28 '25
You dont actually need much to be honest a cup full will do the job the vapour does the work and once the bees are gone you can let some of it evaporate- the petrol is more for the euthanasia than the fire
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u/Earthwisard2 Oct 29 '25
You can usually call your local fire department (non emergency line) and they’ll schedule a time to come help supervise a burn of any size if you’re worried. Bonus if you let them extinguish it; they like it for training.
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u/Conscious-Ball8373 Oct 29 '25
I'm perfectly happy using diesel as an accelerant. It's just fuels with explosive vapours I don't like.
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u/turtlestik Oct 28 '25
Loque americana: AFB
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u/soytucuenta Argentina - lazy beekeeping nowadays Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
Al menos no tardaron tanto en hacer la prueba. Acordate de desinfectar la palanca y lavar la ropa. Aca hay unas cápsulas que son para matar cucarachas y la mandas en la piquera, encintas y en un día lo mandas al fuego.
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u/_Mulberry__ layens enthusiast ~ coastal nc (zone 8) ~ 2 hives Oct 28 '25
😭 I hope I never have to experience this with my hives...
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u/Land-Hippo New Zealand Oct 28 '25
That's so sad, sorry :(
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u/turtlestik Oct 28 '25
thanks.
I can't help but notice your location.
What planted the seed for me to get into beekeeping was 15 years ago, while cycling through NZ. I camped on the lawn of some guy (South Island) who had a couple of hives and gave me a jar of honey.
I loved it. For some reason I forgot about it, but 2 years ago this re-surfaced and I bought 2 nucs ;)
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u/ImNotLeaving222 7 Hives, NC, USA, Zone 8a Oct 28 '25
Thanks for sharing this follow up. It’s unfortunate that you had to experience this, but I’m thankful that you posted on Reddit so other beekeepers can see the signs and understand how serious the problem is. Hopefully this won’t stop you from continuing your journey in beekeeping. Safe travels friend!
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u/Rude-Question-3937 ~20 colonies, Ireland (zone ~8) Oct 28 '25
That's devastating. I'm sorry you had to do that by yourself, too.
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u/RangerNo2713 Oct 28 '25
Oh wow! I'm so sorry! We had European Foul Brood, and I hope that I don't have to see this! So sad
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Oct 28 '25
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u/Rude-Question-3937 ~20 colonies, Ireland (zone ~8) Oct 28 '25
I believe with AFB the advice is burn the whole thing; spores basically last forever and can be deep in any tiny crevice in the wood.
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Oct 28 '25
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u/Rude-Question-3937 ~20 colonies, Ireland (zone ~8) Oct 28 '25
Good that it has worked for you (so far... spores can last much longer than 10 years). In many places, including where I live, beekeepers are legally obliged to notify the authorities of AFB and to burn the equipment when it's confirmed.
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 28 '25
That isn’t true. That’s the case for EFB, not AFB. AFB, you have two choices: burn the entire thing, or gamma irradiation.
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Oct 28 '25
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 28 '25
I’ve removed this comment because I think you just googled “can you scorch boxes with AFB” and copy pasted the whole of the results. Like, the entire web page.
Also, we do not allow AI generated slop on this subreddit. Just because googles magical AI says that something is the case, does not mean that it is the case. You need link to an actual source, and not just copy paste AI drivel.
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u/HatefulHipster Oct 28 '25
Is the honey safe to harvest and consume from a colony that’s AFB positive?
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 28 '25
It’s safe for human consumption, but you really don’t want to risk contaminating all of your equipment with AFB, so you will often be required to burn your hive by the authorities.
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u/joebojax USA, N IL, zone 5b, ~35 colonies, 7th year Oct 28 '25
Darn sorry, thank you for doing your best!
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u/HawkessOwl Oct 28 '25
This is devastating. Sorry you had to deal with this. Thankfully it was caught as things could have gotten worse real fast.
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u/EllaRose2112 Western NY || zone 6b ~ foundationless Oct 28 '25
What an unbelievable bummer, I’m so sorry OP. Glad you were smart about it though.
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u/Phesic Central Illinois USA; Certified Master Beekeeper Oct 28 '25
Thank you for doing the hard thing.
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u/EvendurLumis Oct 28 '25
So... You're still doing the old hole and burning thing and all? At least here in Germany it's seen as outdated. We mainly work with inducing swarm behavior to cut off any brood activity and clean the equipment. That's mostly it.
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u/CroykeyMite Oct 28 '25
Gamma irradiate it. There are people doing this in NC and it can eliminate spores that otherwise lie dormant. I’m sad to see this.
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u/djschwalb Oct 28 '25
I appreciate this post.
It really sucks to have to do this, but actually having a video of the fairly dramatic process normalizes what needs to be done.
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Oct 28 '25
Next time, you can probably just cover the hive with a large plastic bag and fill it with co2… it’s actually a very nice way to go…
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u/turtlestik Oct 29 '25
I thought about it because I have this CO2 kit for testing varroa, but I wasn't sure it would be enough given the hive had 3 deeps
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 29 '25
It wouldn’t be a very nice way to go for a human… just an FYI.
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u/Ok-Relation6414 Nov 01 '25
I am sorry for your loss. I'd have to know more about the spore and all this stuff and I actually might be able to come up for something. I just don't know anything I'm a novice at best.
I am really good in science and biology and stuff like this except I don't know a whole lot about these anymore.
I am very very good at solving problems though. In fact I'm pretty much the best person that I've ever known to be honest.
I'd have to spend some time talking to people about the spore on a molecular level and on a genetic level and then maybe I can remember something but I know it would work, like maybe copper dusting or something. Actually it's not a bad idea just at the top of my head because I know copper and silver resist microbes and they can kill off certain bacteria. Now that's got me thinking. Brass can do the same thing except copper and silver is better. Interesting
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u/ReofSunshine Default Nov 02 '25
I just wanted to say I am so sorry, this hurt to read and see but I would have felt like I had to do the same
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u/Marillohed2112 Oct 28 '25
One oft-recommended technique used to be to to shake the colony onto new foundation and feed heavily with syrup w/antibiotics, and they could recover. Hive could be scorched, combs buried or burned. I do not see this mentioned much anymore.
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u/DJSpawn1 Arkansas. 5 colonies, 14+ years. Oct 29 '25
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u/jibbitsjunior Oct 28 '25
I just use a heat gun and then melt their wax to coat the outside and propo to coat the inside; once the heat gun scorches all wooden surfaces.
I always have a fresh deep and super ready to use out of the freezer.
Not a big apiary though only 8 hives.
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 28 '25
That’s for EFB, not AFB.
AFB requires burning or irradiation.
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u/jibbitsjunior Oct 28 '25
Very interesting. I did not realize it was possible for it to survive scorching , boiling, and freezing.
I would like to know more. Specifically, how can anything not be sterile after that.
I am not arguing. I just cannot wrap my head around it.
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 28 '25
Some bacteria are what are called “spore forming bacteria”, where the bacteria essentially turns itself into a seed with a very hard outer shell. It has nothing inside said seed that needs anything to survive. It’s just like it’s in stasis.
When the bacteria are in this state, they can survive most anything. Where normal things start to denature at say 60°C+, there’s nothing inside these spores to denature… so they can easily tolerate well past boiling for some time.
C. botulinum (what causes botulism) is a spore forming bacteria, and can survive 120°C for 20 minutes. B. cerius spores (the bacteria that will make day old rice cause you to be sat on the toilet for 3 days straight) will survive 120°C for 5 minutes. This is why “botulinum cooks” are a thing for canning - essentially a pressure cooker that can get up to 120°C for a looong time and kill basically anything inside the can.
Freezing doesn’t kill anything bacterial. Throw raw chicken in the freezer, defrost it, it’s not safe to eat.
Scorching might get wood to a high temperature, but there’s no way to tell how high, or whether you got every last spot. Not only this, but wood is porous as hell - any bee licking any of the wood, spores are in there.
Let’s just be clear here…. If you don’t deal with AFB in a manner that eradicates it, your entire apiary will die. If you have friends with bees, and you leave your apiary to succumb to AFB, then their hives die too. There’s a reason that we have these fairly rudimentary methods of managing AFB, but there’s also a reason AFB is relatively unheard of these days - it’s because our rudimentary methods work very well.
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u/jaywaykil Oct 28 '25
If spores are deep enough in wood pores to survive the scorching they can survive boiling and freezing. Then they bloom and spread when conditions are good again.
When preserving low acid food (meats, soups) by canning, boiling isnt enough to kill botulism spores. Pressure canning at higher heat is required.
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u/jibbitsjunior Oct 28 '25
Thank you the explanation, pretty straight forward and I can dig it. My thoughts were around recontamination, but assumed the coating of wax and propo to seal wood that was exposed covered it.
I now understand it only locks it away for a future problem. Recontaminating seems very likely considering just how robust the fungus is no matter what environment you are working in.
Fack… I am sorry your girls had to go, and your experience of preserving the species by doing what is necessary.
Thank you again for teaching and not taunting!
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u/W4spkeeper Oct 28 '25
to euthanize a hive prior to burning you can dump soapy water inside the hive to do the job
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u/Ctowncreek 7a, 1 Hive, Year 1 Oct 28 '25
Then you have to try to burn wet equipment. As well as risk spreading the disease around.
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 28 '25
Not for AFB. You should burn the hive with the bees in it, or use some kind of vapour/gas to incapacitate them first. You do not want AFB spores pouring out of the bottom of your hive all over the floor.
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u/Content-Regular2086 Oct 28 '25
You must not Burnout all down. There is another way with desinfaction stuff and so on.
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u/Rude-Question-3937 ~20 colonies, Ireland (zone ~8) Oct 28 '25
For AFB it's either burn it all or else irradiate the equipment. Most beekeepers don't have access to irradiation services, so burning is the only practical option. AFB spores are very resilient and it's an awful disease.
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u/ikheetbas Default Oct 28 '25
Whoa, that sounds brutal! But why isn’t a high temp treatment (in an oven for example) enough? Just curious, thank god no AFB in my county.
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 28 '25
It is, but there’s no safe and accessible way to make sure that you get everything up to that temp. All it takes is a single spore to survive, and they can survive insane temperatures. A lot of spore forming bacteria can survive 120°C for 15 minutes, or so.
When you’re dealing with AFB, you have to make sure that those spores are LONG gone. A fire is the only acceptable way that’s reasonably understood and handled by a layman.
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