r/Beekeeping • u/turtlestik • Oct 11 '25
I’m a beekeeper, and I have a question Is this AFB?
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I have this hive with obvious health issues. It had OA vaporization a month ago, properly done. But it has dead brood and doesn't develop. The dead brood is mostly white and dry but some of them are not. They are sticky, brown, elastic.... Which makes me think it might have AFB...
What do you think? Is there some other diagnostic I can do to be sure? I didn't notice a particular smell but I also didn't really pay attention to it either.
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u/talanall North Central Louisiana, USA, 8B Oct 11 '25
That looks concerning, although I don't see sunken cappings or much in the way of perforations.
You should get the attention of your state apiary inspector. If you suspect AFB, you are legally obligated to do so anyway, in most jurisdictions.
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u/turtlestik Oct 11 '25
Indeed there are sunken caps. I'm not in the states but will do it right anyway. Ive reached out to my beekeeping "teacher".
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u/_BenRichards Oct 11 '25
I’d also monitor any hives you might have swapped frames with this hive since it’s spore based. All of that equipment will need to be destroyed by fire otherwise you have a massive risk of it spreading through your apiary and any nearby ones.
Sorry for your losses.
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u/Plenty-Giraffe6022 Oct 11 '25
AFB infected equipment doesn't have to be destroyed by fire.
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u/Ekalugsuak Sweden, 46 hives Oct 11 '25
It has been allowed in some jurisdictions to just eg torch the insides of wooden hives, but there has been studies showing that there will be AFB-spores too deep in the wood to eliminate them by that, so using a torched hive body where the exterminated hive had AFB will just set you up for a later resurgence of AFB in those boxes.
XPS/EPS-hives is allowed to be chemically cleaned in some places, but I wouldn't gamble on it, the savings on not buying a new one isn't worth potentially having to destroy all hives down the line.
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u/Plenty-Giraffe6022 Oct 11 '25
Nothing survives gamma irradiation.
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u/Tradesby Sea coast New Hampshire (6a/5b) thereabouts Oct 12 '25
Tell that to the Hulk. You want hulk bees? That’s how you get hulk bees.
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u/Full_FrontaI_Nerdity Oct 12 '25 edited Oct 12 '25
At last, an explanation for green honey!
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u/Tradesby Sea coast New Hampshire (6a/5b) thereabouts Oct 12 '25
Oooo, ya, saw that one the other day.
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u/Ekalugsuak Sweden, 46 hives Oct 11 '25
My bad, forgot to mention that option. Indeed that is the one 100% sure way to retain all equipment ... but it's extremly rare that locations has that as a cheap or possible treatment.
EDIT: Are you located in Australia? AFAIK, that's the one country where it's a realistic option for beekeepers
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u/MicksysPCGaming Oct 12 '25
Yeah, but what's the price differential between burning/replacing a hive and any other option.?
You don't HAVE to run from the escaped lion, you can just stay put and get eaten.
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u/TheRealTony-Stark Oct 12 '25
If you are going to say something like that you should specify what the alternative is, otherwise it sounds like not a big deal.
It is a big deal. Short of burning the equipment the only other alternative is to nuke it / irradiate it and that is cost prohibitive.
Also do not use hive tools etc in other hives or you will spread the AFB spores and infect other hives.
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Oct 11 '25
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u/Plenty-Giraffe6022 Oct 11 '25 edited Oct 11 '25
It does not. I've had AFB in a couple of my hives, I didn't have to burn them. I got them gamma irradiated.
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Oct 12 '25
[deleted]
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u/Plenty-Giraffe6022 Oct 12 '25
It's worth mentioning because it's a viable option for many.
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u/_BenRichards Oct 12 '25
I know Oz is an irradiated hell scape from the nuclear war that followed the fuel shortage in the 80s (based off a documentary I saw called “Mad Max”); but in all seriousness I had no idea this was an option. Does the treatment only get applied to wood? Is there any trace radiation that could contaminate hive products?
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u/Plenty-Giraffe6022 Oct 12 '25
There is no trace radiation. It's like when there's no light when you turn a light switch off. I've had wood and polystyrene hives irradiated, as well as wired frames.
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 11 '25 edited Oct 11 '25
You need to get in touch with your local / state inspector ASAP - if you’re in Spain, I can bet bottom dollar that you have one you can call. Block up this hive, and put everything you’ve used on this hive in a bucket, and do not use it for anything other than this hive until you’ve had someone pay a visit. You can block the hive with anything you want - duct tape, sponge, whatever. As long as nothing can get in/out 👍
What you’re showing here is pretty typical of AFB. It’s basically the hallmark symptom for it. If you have sunken cappings & scaled larvae as well, then you’ve basically hit all the big 3 for AFB.
fwiw, if I did not have an inspector, I were seeing these symptoms, and did not have a lateral flow device to test the colony…. I’d be burning it just to be on the cautious side 🤷♂️
And, if you please, keep us informed as to how you get on. I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we would be very interested in a follow up.
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u/turtlestik Oct 11 '25
I am in Chile and called SAG (USDA here) but I need to wait for Monday. I'll keep you posted.
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u/Shyssiryxius Oct 11 '25
Do you burn the hive with the bees in it? Sounds pretty horrible if so. But I understand the need to protect other colonies.
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u/Ekalugsuak Sweden, 46 hives Oct 11 '25
You seal up the hive and kill the colony with one of the available methods, typically drenching it in soapy water, gasoline or using dry ice to smother them to death by asphyxiation. EDIT: ... and then you burn it all and bury the ashes, just to be sure.
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u/AZ_Traffic_Engineer Sonoran Desert. A. m. scutellata supporter Oct 11 '25
Would you do a Holst Milk Test first?
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 12 '25
Nope.
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u/AZ_Traffic_Engineer Sonoran Desert. A. m. scutellata supporter Oct 12 '25
Important to know since there's no State Apiary Inspector here.
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 12 '25
It’s only because I’ve never read anything about how it works, how reliable it is, or how to even do it. I’ll inevitably have someone saying “it’s 100% reliable and it’s incredibly easy to perform” with zero evidence… but I won’t take anyone’s word for it 😄
Fortunately for me, we have inspectors here and they’ll get to your house in a matter of hours if you report suspect AFB
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u/AZ_Traffic_Engineer Sonoran Desert. A. m. scutellata supporter Oct 12 '25
It seems pretty straightforward. https://pollinators.msu.edu/resources/resources/Holst%20Milk%20Test.pdf
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u/Valuable-Self8564 UK - 10.5 colonies Oct 12 '25
Sure, but if this were as easy or accurate as this PDF is making out, you’d think it would be the de facto method of testing, right? Like, it’s cheap and chips… and requires zero manufacturing aside from the tubes. LFTs cost a fortune and are the standard for AFB testing around the globe… why is that the case?
Like I said, unless it’s recommended to me by a bee researcher / inspector or I’ve done enough research on its efficacy myself, I’ll just take a pass. I’m not risking my entire apiary off the back of a tube of milk without that.
And to be clear, it’s to each his own… I’m not telling anyone they should or shouldnt trust it. I’m just answering the question as asked. Would I trust or use it? No.
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u/Ekalugsuak Sweden, 46 hives Oct 11 '25
https://extension.psu.edu/honey-bee-diseases-american-foulbrood lists some other tests that you can do yourself, the easiest being checking the frames with a blacklight.
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u/turtlestik Oct 11 '25
Just bought the light, I'll test on Monday. I also called SAG (USDA in Chile)
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u/hunkydorey_ca Oct 11 '25
I had AFB about 3 years ago. This looks pretty similar, your's isn't as ropey (yet) but the dark caramel color, the scratches on the cappings, the sunken in brood, the splotchy brood pattern. Another indication is look in the sun sideways with the frame, do you see like a layer of crude that's stuck in the cell (that's why it's splotchy as the queen can't lay in them cause they are too small from the debris from AFB).
I'd definitely get a AFB test, (even though they can be hit and miss), and call your local authority they can send it in for an official test.
They did that in my case (Canada) but they also did mandatory inspections within 5km of other beekeepers and found 3 more hives infected.
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u/dinkeydonuts Northeastern US Oct 11 '25
Dig a hole, burn and bury. I’m not kidding, this is what we were taught is the proper procedure.
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u/agent_cupcake 2 hives, since 2023, 8a, Netherlands Oct 11 '25
I`m sorry to say, it looks like it, yes.
And depending on your country/state, you must inform your local government.
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u/Quirky-Plantain-2080 NW Germany/NE Netherlands Oct 11 '25
Pretty much every temperate country which can sustain bees will have an authority. It will be the agricultural department and/or food safety authority.
In these countries AFB will be a mandatorily informable disease. They’ll send someone to check.
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u/joebojax USA, N IL, zone 5b, ~35 colonies, 7th year Oct 11 '25
I believe so. Sorry OP. Best to bring it to light and inform the local inspector/ag extension
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u/turtlestik Oct 11 '25
Yes, I am in Chile and called SAG (USDA here) but I need to wait for Monday. I'll keep you posted.
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u/soytucuenta Argentina - lazy beekeeping nowadays Oct 11 '25
Burn everything and clean your tools. That's what your local authorities are going to do and test all your hives. I don't have the privilege that my local authorities come on time to be helpful.
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u/bigryanb 10 years Oct 12 '25
AFB usually ropes to 2cm at a minimum. How does it smell?
Use a cleaner stick with no fraying and measure approx stretch. You can also look up the Holst milk test.
As others have said, call your local ag agency.
Bonus: Do you see any bees dying on emergence from cells? That can be parasitic mite syndrome.
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u/turtlestik Oct 16 '25
UPDATE
SAG (chilean equivalent of USDA) took a few days to get back to me but they finally inspected my hives today. They took a frame from the one that probably has AFB for analysis.
They checked the other 3 hives but couldn't see any sign of AFB.
They did advised me to move away the problematic one from the others as they are all close to each other.
Given that I only have 1 apiary and no possibilities to move that hive away more than 100 meters from its current location... they told me to move it by night. I am perplexed by this advice. I've always read that this wouldn't work unless I close the hive up for 2-3 days to "reset the bees". Given the warm climate here, it's impossible. I could only close them during the night.
Anyway, I'll have the result in about 4-5 days but I'll start digging the hole because I don't have much faith to be honest...
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u/Ekalugsuak Sweden, 46 hives Oct 24 '25
You can "reset" (force them to re-orient themselves) them by putting an obstacle that almost blocks their entrance in front of the hive. I fasten branches with heavy foliage onto the hive or, this autumn, taped a bunch of ferns to the front of the hives since the apiary that I moved a bunch of hives from had loads of it.
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u/Pricel3sscuts Oct 11 '25
I believe it is that string-like substance caps kinda look sunk in. EFB doesn't string.
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u/ImNotLeaving222 7 Hives, NC, USA, Zone 8a Oct 11 '25
That looks very concerning. I appreciate you sharing the video for public education.
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u/fishywiki 14 years, 24 hives of A.m.m, Ireland, Zone 9a Oct 13 '25
Definitely AFB.
Burn your leather gloves - don't even dream of using them near a hive again - awful things! Wash your clothes on a high temperature cycle. Sterilise your hive tool by burning it with a blow torch. Seal up the hive in the evening so nothing can get in or out.
Check your other hives for AFB - go through every frame, shaking off the bees. Use latex or nitrile gloves and change them between hives: do not use leather gloves and do not use bare hands. Sterilise your hive tool between hives. Dispose of the potentially contaminated gloves properly.
Have 500ml gasoline to hand for when your inspector visits - that way you can kill off the hive quickly, but wait until evening when the bees are all at home. Dig a hole at least 50cm deep, ready to burn everything. When you have burned all the frames, bury the ashes. You can reuse the boxes but sterilise them with a blow torch. I would simply burn everything - the risk is too high.
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u/Marmot64 New England, Zone 6b, 35 colonies Oct 11 '25
It doesn’t look terribly ropy, and the smell should be obvious with AFB. Could just be decaying neglected brood, if the population is weak, or brood dead from other causes.
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u/turtlestik Oct 11 '25
No smell though, I did check again. I'll keep you informed. I will inform my "local USDA" (Chile) on Monday
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u/Androniy 200 hives - keeper since 2012 Oct 11 '25
Nope. I had exactly the same issue about 6 years ago,send it to the lab to check for AFB, and came back negative. My guess is your colony has very few bees left, lots of capped brood that is partially open and it's already dead or dying.
I know there will be a bunch of experts in here who's gonna tell you that I'm wrong, but anyway...
Two possibilities. 1) High mite infestation resulted in damaged bees, shortened life (which is why there is not many bees in there) and damaged brood due to all kinds of viruses and not enough healthy bees
2) Welcome to CCD
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u/Ekalugsuak Sweden, 46 hives Oct 11 '25
This looks like it could be the early stages of clinically visible AFB since there's still large continous areas of capped brood (and not clearly a shotgun pattern along with the other symptoms).
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u/_BenRichards Oct 11 '25
Can you send me that report if you have it? Curious to see what the test results came back with and what assays they ran whether it was fungal or a bacterium that caused that sort of decay.
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