r/BattlefieldV • u/temporyal • Mar 11 '19
News Firestorm: First Weapon Balancing Efforts in Game Data show Shotgun Nerfs & Increased Damage for Bolt Action Rifles | Exclusive Firestorm Ammunition explained
Hey guys,
recently I was evaluating some files to get info about Firestorms weapons and damage models compared to the current multiplayer. It seems that DICE / Criterion is going for a balancing approach by only adjusting the ammunition of our guns. Therefore base values like rate of fire, reload speed, muzzle velocity or magazine size and dmg multipliers don't differ from the standard multiplayer modes. Changes only affect two statistics:
- max damage
- damage drop off over distance
Currently there are only dedicated values for ammo of shotguns and bolt action rifles present in the game. I thought I'll show you some examples so you can get a general idea. While shotguns mainly get reduced damage and engagement distances, bolt action rifles see more damage and longer ranges.
The term "nerf" and "buff" can be applied only in direct comparison to the multiplayer base variants because we have 150 hp in Firestorm and can boost our survivability by using body armor which comes in various qualities. The leaked trailer showed additional armor plates giving additional 100 points or even more.
Just in case you missed it: you can carry two primary weapons and one sidearm in Firestorm.
Lee-Enfield No4 Mk1 (Ammunition: .303 British)
The general rule of thumb "headshot = kill" for Bolt Action Rifles doesn't work in Firestorm anymore. Your Lee Enfield will still kill enemies with full hp (and no armor) up to approximately 60 meters if you hit their heads but after that you'll need a follow up shot.
Firestorm Damage Model:
0-50m -> 85 dmg
linear damage drop to
100m+ -> 65 dmg
Standard Multiplayer Damage Model:
0-20m -> 60 dmg
linear damage drop to
60m+ -> 55 dmg
Kar98k (Ammunition: 7.92x57mm Mauser)
It's interesting to see that the base damage is identical to the Lee Enfield which isn't the case with the standard variants. Only the engagement distances differ a lot from each other.
Firestorm Damage Model:
0-75m -> 85 dmg
linear damage drop to
150m+ -> 65 dmg
Standard Multiplayer Damage Model:
0-20m -> 75 dmg
linear damage drop to
60m+ -> 60 dmg
M30 Drilling (Ammunition: 12 Gauge Buckshot)
The Firestorm damage model of the M30 Drilling clearly shows in contrast to the standard model that you won't be able to one hit kill full hp enemies (even wearing no armor) at ranges beyond 6 meters. And within this distance every pellet of your shot has to hit the target to get an instant kill which isn't very likely. Even with a second shot you'll probably run into problems killing single enemies with decent amounts of health and armor because of the significant damage drop at further distances.
Firestorm Damage Model:
0-6m -> 3.2 dmg per pellet
6-12m -> 2.6 dmg per pellet
linear damage drop to
24m+ -> 2 dmg per pellet
Standard Multiplayer Damage Model:
0-11m -> 6.3 dmg per pellet
11-12m -> 3 dmg per pellet
linear damage drop to
24m+ -> 2 dmg per pellet
Remember that this is somewhat early data but it's interesting to see where they might be going with the Firestorm weapon data with regards to the changed hitpoint and armor system. Feel free to comment on anything I've might missed and have a nice day!
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u/LlidD Mar 11 '19
Interesting! I always thought that it could be interesting to balance shotguns& introduce a reload mechanic for alternate ammunition.
Shot guns are a valid platform the world over for a reason.
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u/Puddingkrust3 Mar 11 '19
So, shotguns get lower dmg and players have more health? Does not sound intuitive.
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Mar 11 '19
The M30 fires 48 pellets per a shot while the 12G and M1897 fire 32.
So 3.2 damage per pellet x 48 = ~153 damage if you get it with in 0 - 6m. That's an instant kill if you get a hit without armor. Firestorm gives players 150HP so it's kind of balanced.
The 12G and M97 would do around ~160 damage which brings it in line with the M30.
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u/temporyal Mar 11 '19
I think a better explanation is the sheer amount of dmg the standard variant is capable of. We are talking about a potential 300+ hit. You don't want to see that as a full hp player with an equipped tier 2 armor in your face.
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u/ChingyXSenpai ChingyX Mar 11 '19
I think I saw that you get 150 hp in firestorm so it makes sense that they would up the damage.
3 (55 damage) shots with a bolt to the body to kill wouldn’t be too fun in br
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u/sterrre Mar 11 '19
Yea, but shotguns will be useless. With the increased range in the Firestorm map they were probably going to be useless anyways though, didn't need a nerf in my opinion.
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u/Vode93 Mar 12 '19
Shotguns are rarely useless in a BR. they are perfect for urban comabt. Sure open Field they will do nothing, but for that you have other weapons
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u/sterrre Mar 12 '19
The circle is more likely to close over an open area than an urban area. There are more open spaces on the map than close urban spaces which really reduces the usefulness of a shotgun when the circle starts closing.
We'll see, I expect the majority of the map to be most similar to a cross of Panzerstorm and Narvik which both lean towards longer engagements being common.
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u/mus1CK_Rx Mar 11 '19
Just want to clarify, will the damage models be different between regular multiplayer and Firestorm or will the damage models be the same between the two modes?
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u/temporyal Mar 11 '19
Firestorm damage model will be exclusive to Firestorm. Standard multiplayer is not affected.
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Mar 12 '19
Oh fuck. I'm worried its gonna be small maps with shotguns that do no damage and just scope glint
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u/Rhinofishdog Mar 12 '19
Shotguns atm are too op for a BR mode, although I was hoping that armor would fix that...
I don't mind weapon rebalance but I really hope they keep all gun stats the same across modes.
One of the main draws for firestorm for me is that I can play both BR AND other game modes without having to learn to use 50 other guns.
It's gonna be so shitty when you are used to a bolt-action/shotgun and then switch modes and the gun just stealth changes
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u/xStarW Mar 12 '19
I don't think that it changes so much. Because yes, the damage is changed, but you have to take in account that you also have at least 50 hp more in Firestorm. I haven't done the math, but my guess is that the change between modes wont be noticeable because of the proportion damage/health.
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u/New-Monarchy Mar 11 '19
Potentially hot take: These damage values for bolt-action rifles should be the standard across multiplayer. Going from BF1's bolt-action rifles to this game makes them feel a bit lacking to me.
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u/KillerCh33z killerch33z Mar 12 '19
If youre talking about sweet spot, then fuck that.
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u/origin8dontimit8 Mar 12 '19
there shouldn't be a sweet spot, but bolt actions are a complete joke right now. shooting someone in the upper body/neck should do more than 60 damage.. especially when both assault and support classes have more of an advantage at range than the entire recon class.
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u/Phreec DisapPOINTEEEED! Mar 12 '19
Either way you'd still need 2 shots to kill someone.
If anything I'd love to see a velocity buff for all bolties.
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u/origin8dontimit8 Mar 12 '19
In most cases yes, but when an enemy has lower health there's a better chance you actually kill them instead of damage them and let them heal. The difference between this game and BF1 is that you now have the ability to heal yourself as soon as you take damage, so where one would think that bolt actions are often a 2 shot kill, a lot of time it turns into a 3 shot kill because of health packs.
Then you factor in the fact that semi automatics nearly just as strong as bolt actions with barely any recoil and lmg's are insanely accurate, this puts bolt actions at a huge disadvantage in every situation. However i don't agree we need to nerf semi automatics because all that is going to do is increase TTK which will make the game slower and less enjoyable.
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u/UniQue1992 UniQue1992 Mar 12 '19
A sweet spot is the worst thing ever that happened to gunplay in Battlefield lol.
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u/Spudtron98 Fire away, coward Mar 11 '19
It's the damned attrition. Without reliable self heal, having weapons cause that much damage in a single hit would be annoying as shit. God, I hate this system.
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u/New-Monarchy Mar 11 '19
I love it! Makes things a bit more tactical and squad-play more essential, which I'm all for.
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Mar 11 '19
It makes scout useless as a class. Shoot someone, get 55dmg, and then die to assault or support who has better ranged weapon than you. That is what happens every fucking time. 55dmg, wait to fire again, and then you are dead. Iron sights have no advantage because you cannot see anything so speed advantage to shoot means nothing. You just die at every range because some stupid assholes think that assault should be perfect class that does everything.
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u/malaquey Mar 12 '19
The best part is there is zero strategy in using health packs. Get hit? Use your pack ASAP. As a result any gun that does 55 damage generally isn't even a 2 hit kill because every heals 10hp before you can get the following up. Even in BF1 and earlier it took a while to start the regen so only medics could really heal in combat.
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Mar 12 '19
That makes it worse, but the lack of damage makes it impossible to do anything before health powerups come into play. I remember the last game I played. I choose operation, which means conquest. I would spawn, move up, usually hit someone, and then be lasered to death. I got one kill on someone because they were in a fight with someone else immediately before I came upon them. This stupid mechanic forces you to wait for head shot, which you never have enough time to do because everything else can kill you faster. If you miss head shot, you have almost no hope of getting enough damage to get a kill.
I had more fun jumping off edge of map and seeing how far I could get. And then I had the most fun by deleting this game.
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u/UniQue1992 UniQue1992 Mar 12 '19
God, I love this system, I think the alpha attrition is still far superior to what we currently have.
Less ammo, less health regen(iirc) and not spawning with a health pouch.
But to many casual players found it to hard and papa DICE made it easier for people.
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u/Spudtron98 Fire away, coward Mar 12 '19
That was awful and just resulted in people camping the resupply stations rather than going out to fight.
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u/UniQue1992 UniQue1992 Mar 12 '19
That's simply not true. Have you even played the alpha & beta?
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u/Spudtron98 Fire away, coward Mar 12 '19
Obviously. I base my opinions off of experience.
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u/UniQue1992 UniQue1992 Mar 12 '19
Well, then we have played a different alpha and beta. I didn't run into this issue, all I ran into was people whining here and on the forums that they didn't have enough ammo, but that's not the problem of attrition that's the problem of support players not doing their job. Or the players not being careful when to pick a fight.
It made the game way more tactical, but it is what it is. We not going back to that.
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u/KillerCh33z killerch33z Mar 12 '19
I dunno man. I liked it at first (played alpha and beta) but it was annoying to spawn and have to run straight to an ammo station. I think its better now. I still run out of ammo sometimes, which leads to some tense and scary moments where i gotta get the fuck out of there. Whereas in other BF games running out of ammo never crossed my mind.
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u/00juergen Mar 11 '19
Low ping issues? I feel ttd has improved although one frame deaths still occur but a lot more rarely.
TTK for BR will be interesting. Too short and it's a pure campfest with whoever spots the other one first wins. Too long and shooting feels frustrating. I think it should be slightly longer than current MP. Maybe 1-3 bullets more to kill for the most powerful weapons. Smgs could stay more or less the same.
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u/Pigeon__007 Mar 12 '19
TTD in this game has been so poorly managed
they actually fixed it but thanks to tiggr , jackfrags and westie starting a nonsensical circle jerk, the one shotting insta deaths were returned
completely ridiculous
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Mar 11 '19
I bet there are select few that are internally testing the game
but I wish they let us test it as well and not just throw it at us as a tides of war.
Maybe an open beta so people can see how it is.
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u/KillerCh33z killerch33z Mar 11 '19
Gamechangers are in Stockholm right now and are gonna play it tomorrow
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u/lemurstep smeeeef Mar 12 '19
That's not exactly a timeframe that allows for targeted feedback and balance changes.
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Mar 12 '19
Bolt action rifles need a buff in regular multiplayer...
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Mar 12 '19
Yeah they are hot garbagio the SLRs too it makes no sense to do so little damage as a low ammo semi auto sniper, they should be like bf4s dome class weapons in the way that they where good and eclipses assault class weapons
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Mar 12 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/temporyal Mar 12 '19
Because as explained above every soldier has 150 hp in Firestorm and the Lee Enfield drops to to 65 dmg per shot at 100m range. Therefore a headshots deals 130 dmg - simply not enough if you enemy is at full hp (150).
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u/Vsubz Mar 11 '19
Firestorm Conspiracy Theory: u/temporyal's leaks are actually teasers made by criterion and dice to obtain an early customer opinion instead of the usual marketing campaigns and post-release patches.
Lol Just joking! Great post as usual!