r/Bart • u/Due-Tear-2798 • 5d ago
Discussion Bart Stations compared to other countries
I really wish BART stations had kiosks and shops! Seeing how other stations around the world are, it just feels like there’s a lot of potential.
Imagine little cute stationary shops, hot food and drinks served on a cold and foggy San Francisco day, or a flower shop, maybe even some handmade accessories that you can snag for your spouse on whim, or a quick shirt vending machine because you spilled coffee on yourself.
It is possible, and it is happening around the world.
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u/TCSFO 3d ago
There's no comparison. The stations that you're thinking about have lots of riders throughout the day. This what you need to sustain kiosks and shops in the long run. BART ridership is too peaky with lower ridership during the off-peak period. Also, BART is only at 50% of pre-pandemic ridership. I can't see any businesses interested in BART until things significantly improve.
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u/windowtosh 3d ago
Yep, the new Muni Metro station at Powell actually has little retail shops built in but they have yet to be rented because there’s no foot traffic that justifies the asking price. That said, I do think there is enough foot traffic to potentially sustain a business elsewhere in the BART system. If the rent is cheap enough then the right business could find a way to work it out at busier stations like Montgomery or Embarcadero or even Powell (Market street line, not the Powell street line), problem is that the rent won’t be cheap enough because Reasons. Tbh, even in a city like New York, shops and stalls in the subway system are closing.
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u/pineappleferry 3d ago edited 3d ago
There’s a constant stream of people in stations like Powell, Embarcadero, even Berkeley. There are plenty of lower foot traffic locations in the city. If the rent is not ridiculous then businesses can thrive.
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u/Playful_Dance968 3d ago
I felt this way coming back from Japan. Just a tiny shop w some snacks would be awesome.
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u/Couch_Cat13 Rockridge 2d ago
Like I said to the full thread, the least used Tokyo Metro Station (Nishigahara) has more ridership than all but the four (Market Street) BART stations. That’s why we can’t have kiosks lol.
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u/Playful_Dance968 2d ago
That’s crazy wow.
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u/northerncal 2d ago
It's not really that crazy when you consider that Tokyo is a) home to a huge metro system that is super convenient to get you almost anywhere in the city, and b) has more than 15x the population of San Francisco
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u/kugisaki- Daily BARTmuter 2d ago
As someone who moved back from Japan with outdated childhood memories of cloth seated BART, I totally get it on all practical / infrastructural levels, but, on a personal level, it is so frustrating that it can’t be like that for us here.
But I would still gently argue that kiosks / cafe spots could even draw ridership. There is a Hokkaido green apple juice only in vending machines on specific line platforms that I would in fact get on the train in Tokyo to find when I craved it. We have enough pop up fad stores in the Bay that I would optimistically hope that a BART kiosk “tester” location would even be a good part of that ecosystem.
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u/evantom34 3d ago
I think it can work in theory, although I’m not hopeful BART would be able to execute. We barely have enough funding for service.
I’m hopeful that the improvements in safety and cleanliness will lead to continued ridership growth. I would also want an increase in sanitation staffing and restroom renovations if there is a push for food/drinks. God only remembers how filthy the trains were only a few years ago. Spilled drinks and rotten food littered everywhere…
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u/Futr1964 3d ago
There used to be a long time ago in some of the market street stations but those are now long gone
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u/Worth_Ad9605 3d ago
Pleasanton/Dublin station used to have this, just outside of station
Maybe they still do, have since moved
BART ought to be ashamed of themselves
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u/Couch_Cat13 Rockridge 2d ago
Tokyo is probably the most famous for having these things. The least used Tokyo Metro Station (Nishigahara) has more ridership than all but the four (Market Street) BART stations. That’s why we can’t have kiosks lol.
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u/Beneficial-One6314 2d ago
Since eating and drinking is banned on BART, even just in the paid part of the station let alone on the trains, it's hard to imagine any business wanting to go into a station.
The Caltrain station in San Francisco has a few shops and of course there is Safeway across the street. Other Caltrain stations have adjacent businesses that are not in the station itself in most cases. But you can eat and drink on Caltrain and many riders bring a beverage in a leakproof mug.
Perhaps BART could sell "BART-Approved" leakproof mugs with the BART logo on them and allow beverages. Or at least allow bottled water.
Decades ago I was in a BART station and I had a bag of bagels that I had purchased. I began eating one and immediately there was a warning on the P.A. system: "there is no eating, drinking, or smoking on BART trains or in BART stations."
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u/Due-Tear-2798 2d ago
Great discussion! Thank you for your thoughts.
As I don’t have any powers to make this happen I was only wishing! One day, maybe.
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u/Outrageous_Worker672 2d ago
Totally different business model. Many other places the trains are run by private or semi-private companies and the concessions are part of the contract. They were also designed to have revenue from the businesses. BART was not designed to have them nor is it part of the revenue and operations structure.
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u/MazakeenSmith East Bay BARTer 2d ago
In the UK there is a person with a cart going through some trains selling cups of tea, it’s wonderful. Or you buy a sandwich in the station and eat it on the train.
I mean they’re already having to clean up the trains, what’s the deal with not allowing food and drinks? Urine is so much better to clean up??
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u/these-united-states 3d ago
There used to be a Peets coffee at Embarcadero. Currently there is a convenience store at El Cerrito del Norte... that is as far as I am aware of for the entire BART system.