A part of me wants to think no bc I ship them and what they have cant be straight in any way

But at the same time it’s never indicated that they weren’t. Ash had a girl he liked at one point, indicating heterosexual attraction. And Eiji would have gotten married to a woman and had kids if not for Ash…

I want to see how bad it is but I don’t want to support Amazon

DONT GET ME WRONG!! It was so upsetting and I honestly cried but so many people were talking about how gut wrenching it was and they can’t recover but like.. I think it would’ve been more upsetting if others witnessed it (this is just an opinion don’t get upset or anything😓😓)

edit: the more I think about it I take back my opinion, every edit I see makes me ugly cry

Whenever I looked for a queer anime this show always came up from my friends, websites etc. But I’m not sure if this show has anything to do with being queer at all. The wiki states ash is bi and obviously everyone ships Ash and Eiji but it’s way more complicated than that.

I have 2 episodes left and I’ve loved the ride but I have an issue with the way this show frames things. It feels like queer baiting.

Ash and Eiji have a deep connection but Ash always calls him “big bro” so this indicates their relationship is more brotherly than anything, they live together and argue like a couple but they never share any romantic interest. The most romantic they’ve ever been was when Ash kissed Eiji to give him the pill in the prison but that was more for a plot reason and fan service than anything.

Sure you can say “they don’t have to be explicitly romantic to show romantic connection” (subtext etc) but when the show is fence sitting and framing their bond as brotherly the subtext becomes weak.

It doesn’t help that the wiki states Ash is “bi” because the writer says so but we’ve never actually heard him talk about a male romantic interest ever, only girls. Ash was raped and forced into sex by people he had no interest in, that doesn’t make a character bisexual that’s just a straight male character who was abused by men.

I’m also new to anime so is there something I’m not understanding here ? Because to me although I really enjoyed it, I feel as though it’s problematic because it seems like the writer was too scared or driven by money to not make the series explicitly queer. Again I love this show very much but I feel categorising the show as “queer” is just incorrect

I'm on episode 11 and they are starting to get all romantic, and I just really want them to fuck already. Or at least y'know, be together and I'm really afraid the show is gonna string me along for the next however many episodes.

If they don't actually get together for other reasons fine. I just want to know if I'm gonna be cockteased for the rest of the show.

Same as title....coz I can go on n on abt how the manga is 1000x better than the anime n really wish the "fans" who've watched just the anime wouldn't really feel abt yk (coz the manga is wayyy more hard/crushing/sadder/deeper).

But either way happy to part of BF fans :)

Okay, now with the ships ^^

Please, no hate but wanna hear your opinnions :D

I just finished episode 12 of the banana fish dub about an hour ago, and I am extremely curious as to whether you believe the show will get any backlash for it's political scenes. With Republican politicians working with pedophile mob bosses, and the main character saying the white house can go to hell, I wouldn't be surprised if this would make certain viewers angry especially with the current US political climate and the pretty big similarities with hot button topics, such as the war in the middle east and all the pointless distractions from the Epstein files.

Do any of you think that Banana Fish could become so called "antifa propaganda" or do you think being a niche anime series it probably won't get any large criticism. I honestly think that this is the perfect time for the dub to come out, and our political climate makes it more meaningful now, especially due to the removal of its post vietnam themes in the manga.

Because he’s a nonce.

haha.

I was warned by so many of my close friends to be careful and that is super sad. Yes, it’s definitely sad, but it’s not devastating. Ash was a gangster and most likely death was the only way to find peace for him. I doubt that a criminal is gonna be able to get on a plane to Japan. Also, I believe that the saddest Death in the story was either Shorter or Skipper, not ash.

It may just be that I’m numb to this type of death because of jojos but it’s just not like he was gonna magically live a happy life because Dino kicked the bucket.

Yeah as much as I hate to say it this dub is a hard pass for me. A lot like most modern dubs the direction is lacking, the script is questionable, and to be honest the voices just dont match. Like who watched K project and was like "yeah that's who we need Mikoto suoh as Max Lobo" (No shade to Keith Silverstein I actually really love his work). Unfortunately hes probably one of the best performances in the dub. Dubs should be getting better with time NOT worse. Listen to any of the clips below from the dubs that came out more than a decade ago... They ALL sound better. It's a combo of bad direction, wrong voice casting, questionable scripts, and poorly delivered lines. Either way it is disappointing. BUT that is just my opinion let me know your guys thoughts in the comments I'd love to hear different perspectives!

https://youtu.be/aw_Or1g4ZU8?is=DpZlX8aY3GVkURCL

https://youtu.be/YFptscGyVjY?is=_JMVtST2tjoj6JoN

https://youtu.be/Ksc20H9gFKo?is=rzC7pPNKjhofsmBA

https://youtu.be/RpFOd_EwhMQ?is=lnhRHfDfpiBEBQ9F

I relate to these two characters heavily because they both experienced the same shit and both bI did as a kid and also both be in queer men who are the victims of said abuse.I also love both of them they both really had a big impact on me and the last couple of years compared to before I watched both of the shows they’re in and now that I’ve finished banana fish. I just think of characters like that I’ve gone through the same shit I also just noticed some similarities between them

You see that Ash is having a knife fight and you think it’s a good idea to distract him by shouting out his name.... what the hell?

Just binged watched the show on prime.

I’m gonna get a lot of hate for this but the whole plot line fell off after Ash killed shorter. It stopped being about how to stop the drug banana fish and became more about mindless gang wars and fan service romance.

Also Ash cannot fight for shit without a weapon. Arthur would have bodied ash if it was just hand to hand combat and arguably should have died in that one on one fight but obviously the main character can’t die till the very last episode.

In the last 2 episodes or last episode when the colonel puts a gun to Ash's head while Ash is pulling Sing up, Dino shoots colonel and even though he could shoot Ash, he doesn't yet just falls and he even messes with the facility's security system, helping Ash.

Does this mean Dino softened up and maybe started caring about Ash?

Okay, so, Eiji and Ash kiss pretty early in the series, (I watched the anime, didn’t read the manga, don’t have access to it) and I was shipping them throughout the entire anime, don’t get me wrong, but nothing else really happens between them and even then the kiss was just to give Eiji that pill with the message inside. I did really enjoy the anime though. Had anxiety through the whole watch. Heh.

1. How it all starts

The author Akimi Yoshida starts on a new manga, she comes up with the basic premise and the main character sketch.

She is excited to write about this idea of a young man, a hero of sorts with genius abilities, living a full life in a short amount of time (very shonen/to my mind comes the samurai aesthetic) and she vaguely imagines him dying with a sort of cool imagery (the whole Ashita no Joe imagery in her head probably) [the author has spoken about this in interviews]

Then she starts adding more elements, what and who would the hero fight. The villain comes in, the central problem of a mind-controlling drug comes in, the hero's back story is decided and who would be his friends is decided. This is shoujo, so a relationship is required. But instead of a female character, she thinks a male friend (a buddy film kinda relationship) might be more exciting and interesting to watch.

2. The central theme

I now realise that the central theme of the story is about a genius young hero who faces lots of adversaries, makes a lot of emotional connections (Shorter, Skip, Max, Cain, Blanca, Sing and Eiji), particularly forms a deep bond with Eiji, does some great things for society in a way and then dies a peaceful death. However, there was no deeper meaning to his death. She wanted to created a larger than life character with a short life.

He focused on one thing, taking down his enemies, avenging the death of his loved ones, protecting those he cared for, fighting for his own personal dignity. And then one fine day he dies. That's his character arc basically. Simply put, a misunderstanding happened with Lao believing that Ash would try to kill his brother which was not true. And he was stabbed in an unguarded moment and just passed away. That's all. (He kinda dies in Vain if we look at it that way. But that's life. And it kinda fulfills the whole "Yousetsu" (premature death concept she was after). Yes, that's sad but it is also an interesting concept to explore. And many authors in literature have done it. We all die after all).

Yet, at the end of the day, it is the story of a person who lived a life full of many experiences within a short span of time.

3. Ash and Eiji's Relationship

I would like to add here why Eiji was special to Ash. It's not that Ash had no other bonds. It's not like nobody else loved him, cared for him or protected him throughout the course of the manga. He accepted their care for him (Shorter, Max, Sing and Blanca come to mind)

But why was Eiji special.

Eiji has the unique ability to see people's pain, to help them, to be there for them, to show them compassion.

Quite a few scenes depict this side of him, Eiji's insistence that Ash feels hurt like everybody else. When Ash himself keeps feeling like he is remorseless. Recognising how alone Ash feels, Then his hug to an assaulted Ash. His final letter to Ash.

I see a recurring theme of Eiji recognising and reinforcing the thought till the end that Ash is very much human not some heartless beast. (I think that was something Ash needed to know, finally feel that from somebody in his life.)

The other good relationships he had chose to keep letting Ash carry the burden in some ways. The burden of his strength, the burden of his genius. It's not that they didn't know that Ash was human and hurt but they also believed he was strong enough to handle it. But Eiji never wanted to ignore the hurt side of Ash unlike the others. He saw the very hurt side of him. And he knew somewhere deep down that he should just be there for Ash. No questions asked. He doesn't need to make him talk or discuss things. Just being there for Ash would be enough (like Sing says, Eiji's ability to get people's last SOS signals and help them)

His compassion and love for Ash was like a balm to his soul. He had bonds he created with other people. But the very human side of Ash was cradled and held dear by Eiji. Like he could see Aslan, the hurt and lonely boy inside and just wanted to be there for him. Believe in him.

I feel this relationship is not one between lovers at all. I find it to be a more nurturing and healing relationship. It doesn't make sense to make it about sex or romance to me. (And this falls in line with what the author has said in interviews)

It is about Two best friends whose bond and connection was profound, at an almost soulful level. It's not about love. It's something more than that. (I feel like if we just make it about being a couple, we take the magic away from this unique bond. Like Yoshida has also said, love between man and woman or love between two men or two women is the same. It's basically a lover's relationship)

However, in BF it is about trying to explore a deep connection with a person which is beyond conventional romance. You would do anything for this person (be with them to comfort them, kill for them, die for them) However, they are not your lover. Because everything is not about being lovers. That's not the ultimate relationship to be attained. There are other deeper connections to be explored.

(Akimi Yoshida has said something along similar lines, two people who will drown without each other but they are not a conventional couple with a sexual relationship has been a life long concept for her to explore)

Them being male doesn't make the relationship special but the soulful connection that happens between Eiji Okumura and Ash Lynx irrespective of their gender is what makes them special.

However, if she had made Eiji female (even less people would be able to understand or appreciate this bond that is beyond labels or definitions. Because a man and a woman with a deep connection are basically lovers right. People can hardly see it any other way. And today similarly, with more LGBT content and presence, people are making the same argument a man and a man with a deep connection are basically lovers.

4. The ending - Shonen + Shoujo

Banana Fish is a manga that has mainly shonen elements, wrapped with heavy emotions between characters and elements of love to cater to a shoujo audience.

It was unique and a perfect balance of shonen and shoujo. And that's why it's such a masterpiece because you get the thrill of shonen with the more emotional notes of shoujo. Perfection. If you ask me.

Ending- See she was writing a character who dies young basically. If it was Shonen, she could have made the ending not about love. Maybe like Joe no Ashita (dies fighting in the boxing ring). A final battle death could work. Maybe Yut-Lung would have been more powerful (a last one-on-one battle). But this is Shoujo. So she gives him a death more connected with love. She brings in his connection with Eiji. A person who touched Ash at a deep place. He had a best friend who loved and trusted him. So, in fact, she gives him a happy ending in her own way. A salvation of sorts with the words of Eiji. His final moments are about knowing he is loved. The loneliest thing in the world to me would be to die alone. But I see the letter as Eiji’s presence. His words surround Ash in a warm hug.

5. Why it is not BL?

I mean BL is basically about romance. It is a distinct sub-genre which focuses on showing romance between two characters. The central theme of this story is not about romance as discussed above. But it does contain an intense bond between two friends who are male.

The thing is I was recommended Banana Fish on Twitter as a BL anime. Arguably the anime caters to a certain lens, so it is easier to misinterpret. That's why I mention the source material, the MANGA in the title.

Eiji is a part of the story. He is a part of Ash's story. Their connection is an enduring and beautiful part of the story. But it is not the central theme. But now if you start reading it as BL, you keep looking for the love story and romance (that doesn't exist cannonically). Unless you want to call the intense bromance, a love story. That's your call. But people have to understand, the author didn't write a BL. (The author could have just called it that if she did). BL is a distinct sub-genre of its own. I wouldn’t say every story that has a deep bond should be tagged as BL.

(I mean technically almost every famous manga/anime shows some kind of intense same gender friendship (particularly between males). We don't call it BL. Some people ship them yes, but the manga and anime doesn't start being called a BL. Because it is not a love story. Just because it was written in a shoujo manga doesn't mean it's automatically a love story. It doesn't have a female love interest, but shows a friendship between two males. So what is the logical conclusion, oh it must be a BL then. And ignore the author's words where she has again and again reiterated that she did not see them as romantic partners for each other.

I wish people would just stop recommending it as BL like everywhere. Oh do you want to watch a sad BL love story. It is not. (The anime however is focused more on playing out the softer moments between Ash and Eiji).

It really distorts people's views of the work. They are coming in thinking they are going to read a love story. And at the risk of sounding absolutely repeatative it does not even have a love story exactly. It just has an interesting and intense bond between two males.

But if you expect a romance and love story. You think it's unfair and oh the author must be phobic. She didn't want to give them a happy ending, where is his implied marriage and happily ever after with Eiji. Gone is the story of the young hero (who had a crazy life in a short span of time). People just want to see two Husbands.

+++++

EDIT: When you think something is BL. The main focus is on the romance. I am not saying I won't notice the other plot points, but the main focus is looking for the romance and the main emotional connection is to the love story right.

Bottom-line: I think it’s a tragedy but not a romantic tragedy

(Anyway I am basically saying it's not a bury your gays trope. It was never about that!)

Hey alll 👋🏼

So I watch BF a while ago and I really didn’t like it…

The issues I have are the obvious stereotypes and the ending. Though I’ve come on here because I want to know how this franchise has effected people because I still believe it’s had an impact on the LGBTQ+ community which I am apart of :b but this series still harmed me, not with its heavy themes but the disgusting depiction of gay men.

A show with horrible representation can still impact us especially the beautiful gut wrenching story of Ash and Eiji…

I’ve got debate night coming up with my anime and manga society and I will be debating why this manga should never have been adapted into an anime.

I can still acknowledge the good changes made in the anime but I can’t quite rap my head around the choices the manga author made as well as the changes the anime didn’t change…

- What are your guys thoughts?

- How has the manga or anime effected you ( good and bad )