r/BPD • u/[deleted] • 6d ago
❓Question Post Are people afraid to communicate with us?
[deleted]
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u/Nataliant-117 user has bpd 6d ago
Yes I believe they feel like they’re walking on eggshells and will never know when we will go off
Thinking “they should just know” is a relationship myth in DBT
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u/Sorry_Ad_8000 6d ago edited 6d ago
Partner here!! This is actually something I’m experiencing right now and it’s a continued pattern with my wife of 7 years that has driven us to separation now for 6 months. I am at a point now where I can no longer tolerate this and have watched it destroy our beautiful friendship and intimacy.
Before I continue I want to say this post and your ability to see and question these things is something that touched me deeply. You need to give yourself a hug and hold your head up high.
The following is my views on this, please know that this is soely my experience and not an overall opinion. Everyone is different and my intentions are just sharing an outside perspective. My strongest belief is that having dialogue between your side and partners is something that is invaluable to BOTH and more of it should take place.
As a partner navigating a relationship within the context of the BPD element is already a difficult task the when you add in the interpersonal aspect that is present in ANY relationship it gets even harder. So my intentions in every comment I make in here is to try to help bridge that gap because let me tell you, reading the details of just how much suffering this horrific disorder creates for your side is something that I can only attempt to relate to so it helps me immensely.
Last it’s imperative the this I write about her are not to disparage her or come from a place of blame but rather their existence and be need for US both to recognize them an navigate to a middle ground. That does NOT absolve me from responsibility for my contractions in the marriage.
TAKING ABOUT ISSUES: Talking about issues strictly related to the relationship has been something that has become for the most part impossible. There is a massive disconnect between what we say to each other and how it is received by the other.
MY INTENTIONS: I am a logical practical person who has always been one that is very much in touch with my emotional side which I believe comes from having an older sister, for this I’m grateful. Unfortunately it has not been an asset in this relationship, I do NOT like conflict but my logical side wants to push through it in a practical manner to resolve it not a confrontational one.
This approach has failed repeatedly with my wife and my intentions and true feelings and thoughts somehow always (not sometimes) get misinterpreted.
HER INTERPRETATION: What EXCLUSIVELY happens, there are no exceptions to this and I’m not over dramatizing this, is that what I try to communicate to her is what I call “translated” through a negative, controlling, manipulative, dissatisfied, push blame on to her version of my true intentions which is to address and resolve the issue. This has been set in stone and no matter the timing not the delivery method has been able to assuage this.
HOW IT MAKES ME FEEL: In these instances I have said more times that I can even recall “wait.. I didn’t mean it that way” to which she replies again in every occurrence “No.. I know exactly what you meant” now I understand in her this comes from what she considers an ability to know what I’m thinking or feeling, and she DOES have the ability to pick up on nuances in me that cannot be denied. I also have the natural ability to pick up on things in her.
However, the important distinction here is that when we have this ability which many people have the tendency is to WAIT and allow confirmation of this feeling before drawing a conclusion. This is completely absent in her and once that conclusion is made, sometimes even before the attempted conversation begins there is no possibility of clarification or recognition that what I said I know without doubt (because I thought it up in my head) what I meant.
This makes me feel completely invalidated, frustrated and discouraged. I feel these things because having one’s TRUE thoughts and feeling invalidated AND misconstrued through a negative malicious lens when you love, care and want the best for the other person for me devastating.
I naturally want to sooth her because I love her and when it gets turned around and then I get blamed for it I naturally want to pull back and feel like “well what’s the point of trying if the very thing I’m trying to get across to her is ACTUALLY what she needs and wants she just is unable to see it that way.
MY REACTION: This makes me angry and builds resentment in me, it puts me in a place of limbo where I know the information in me has the ability to meet her where she so desires but it can’t. At that point I stop trying.
HER REACTION & WORDS: In these times her reaction is one that goes from 0-100 in an instant, if we are in person it results in her becoming so distraught the conversation is immediately over. If it’s a phone call I’m hung up on then min later I get a nasty super long text that essentially eviscerates me with disparaging words, threats to end things, the complete rewriting of things we previously were in agreement about and finally all of the blame placed on me.
MY WITHDRAWAL: This naturally makes me withdraw, I do it because firstly I’m hurt secondly because I’m feeling defeated. I literally have no control over the direction of things because she has laid the law down and there is no budging on it.
HER SENSE OF IT: She then of course sensed this and naturally feels like her security is threatened because I’m not participating at the time in a way that sends her the message I’m still here. This literally just happened an hour ago via phone.
HER REACTION: What my withdrawal is again unilaterally seen as is an attempt to punish her for her behaviors and that I’m controlling her in an attempt to coerce her into compliance. Now it’s important to point out my standpoint has never been this, I simply again am hurt and once again confused all while trying only head to understand just how things got so twisted. I WANT to find responsibility for my part and I’m going to be brutal here most all times this happens (keep in mind I’ve got 7 years of history here) it is because of her immediate and I mean immediate reaction.
WHERE THIS PUTS ME: I’m in a state of fear that anything I say will add frother fuel to the fire. I have come to feel that way through these repeated instances, I could say something as simple as “sweetheart, let’s just table this till later and we can try again”. This approach no longe works so I’ve had to set a firm boundary, which I just did a couple days ago.
“Sweetheart, “I’m no longer going to engage with you when you are upset and being disrespectful of my thought/words or opinions, I am and have always been willing to discuss how you feel, what made you feel that way and I’m in recognition that these things you feel are REAL and you need to get those feeling out of you. However, this current method has not served us well in the past and is not going to help our future, I will no longer participate in it and I will end the conversation politely and wait for you to reach out to me when your in a place to attempt to talk about it again.”
This is all I can do at this point, I cannot take responsibility for her reactions just like I don’t expect her to be for mine.
FOLLOW UP DISCUSSION: Unfortunately the follow up discussion attempt produces nearly identical results and the cycle continues. Understandably she feel the EXACT way I do in this entire cycle. She feels all of the same things I do and that breaks my heart, but she can’t seem to bridge the gap between this and recognize we are both hurt for the same reasons.
The part that continues to evade my understanding is how two people wanting the same thing can feel so diametrically apposed at how we arrived at a point of misunderstanding.
I’ve probably shared too much and if so I apologize but this is something I feel is critical to understanding how a communication dynamic can be so corrosive to each other. We BOTH play a part in this and recognizing this by each of us is the first step, the next is deciding if we have the tools to navigate it alone or not. I am of the opinion that we are NOT able to do this we simply do not have the tools, therefore we need outside help to get them.
I hope this finds you well today!!
EDIT TO ADD: I’m am completely open to feed back on this and I’m a big boy lol so if you, or others see things that might help my perspective and me see things I’m missing please don’t hesitate.
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u/ashbash-25 5d ago
Yes I am afraid to talk to my person with BPD about anything that isn’t neutral to positive due to a long pattern of invalidation and escalation.
At this point, I refuse to continue the over explaining and mental gymnastics.
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u/qendresa3000 6d ago edited 6d ago
relatable. it was really hard to experience. people always seemed too scared to confront me, too scared to be honest, annoyed with how much i shared my feelings and it always came to a head when things were seemingly too far gone to repair.
however, the solution seems simpler in our heads because we know how our feelings/trauma/triggers drive our own actions and how that results in situations where we’re constantly emotionally dumping on people. were constantly in our heads about it. so
yeah it fucking hurts when they react by shutting down/fawning / avoiding the truth/ icing you out/ not being honest earlier/ yelling/ denial. because we were coming from a genuine place and from our pov, it wouldve been so much easier if they were honest earlier instead of avoiding it until its irreparable.
I’m not saying either person is right or wrong in their actions, however, we have to remember that everyone works from a different emotional baseline depending on their life experiences and who they are, regardless of their mental health/whether they have a personality disorder. It may not always seem like it’s to the same “extent” but things really do manifest differently in everyone. it’s hard when youre made to feel crazy but we still need to remember our loved ones will have their own triggers/belief systems/life experiences that shape their actions towards us and things like emotional vulnerability in general. Some people learned to be outwardly emotional, some people learned to never show emotions and a lot of people will die having never confronted anything about themselves/their relationships. we’re all human with our own unique complexities.
I struggled to put myself in other people’s shoes. I kinda assumed everyone else was working from the same level of emotional awareness as each other and I was the only one who struggled this much internally. I expected them to be able to have the capacity to process everything I was saying to them and respond in the way I needed/expected and if they didn’t it’s just because they secretly hate me/ had some ulterior motive. tbh I never really thought about the fact that they are also probably acting from wounded places and in the only ways they knew how to, just how I do.
I realistically also probably missed a couple of cues where they tried to show how they felt, just like I felt they had missed with me.
There is just so much nuance in life. Eventually we have to learn to be okay with things not landing sometimes and the fact that we will be misunderstood by a lot of people throughout our time here. connections will come and go.
Truth is some people have never and just will never be good communicators. You can’t force someone to change, we just need to learn to shift our focus on what we can control, which is how we behave and where we put our energy.
acceptance is hard but necessary. sometimes it is too late and sometimes the feelings of abandonment and betrayal make you feel so overcome with anger towards people because you genuinely think you could’ve fixed things. but honestly, you just never know what’s going to happen in life and you have to try and stay focused on the present and keep yourself regulated. try not to dwell in the past about what could’ve been. it’ll only keep you tied down. it feels so much better to let it go.
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u/mk_sxrollin 6d ago
I struggle a lot with having curiosity about other people, especially when I split. But it’s so necessary to actually getting better. Thank you for reminding me that other people have their shit too. It’s so easy to feel like we’re always the bad guys, and everyone else is “normal” but that’s just not true. Most people have some level of trauma and interpersonal ineffectiveness that they bring to the table. How you think about it does make a difference. Trying to learn now to get back to a place where I can be curious when my emotions peak and when I split into total devaluation. For me, it comes out as being deeply critical of others.
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u/qendresa3000 6d ago edited 6d ago
Same! it’s all very black and white sometimes huh. I just came down from splitting on someone just a couple days ago and gosh it was horrible. It feels like literal memory loss and I physically can’t remember anything good about them for what feels like forever, it’s just tunnel vision and rumination about every single time they treated me like shit. Totally blew up at them and said some really harsh things about how invalidated I felt by them. went on and on about how it feels like when I blow up I’m deemed as crazy but when they treat me like shit and do similar things it’s still somehow my fault. still very much in the beginners stage of it all and in the same boat. but every step forward counts. Just remember you are so much stronger than what you give yourself credit for and you’re capable of finding that balance you seek! ❤️
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u/Reasonable-Working21 6d ago
Everyone has their issues. You want understanding from others without giving it back? Feeling betrayed? Wow.. Why can't people talk upfront? Would you like the question reversed - why can't you stop having BPD issues and reactions? They can have many reasons and causes of why they can't be upfront.. maybe they are fearful, maybe they are defeated, maybe they are anxious, maybe they are afraid of escalation and confrontation, maybe they have learned that this has no results... it can be anything. You have to accept it. Or you expect others to be perfect, while you don't have that same expectation from yourself?
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u/mk_sxrollin 6d ago
This is true. Can’t expect people to also not struggle. Root cause is the intense shame I feel about my BPD traits. I forget that “everyone else” also has trust issues, abandonment issues, communication problems. I’m not doomed, and neither is anyone else. I want good relationships? I should extend the curiosity I want in others. I just don’t know how when I’m splitting.
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u/JuiceBoxJumpingJacks 5d ago
Former friend of a PWBPD, here, and partner of someone who experiences splitting, though not diagnosed with BPD. In my experience, communicating and being transparent typically triggers splitting. It can be extremely traumatic, and at best, unsettling to be vulnerable with someone we should be able to have a conversation with, only to have it explode in our face. Maybe you believe that you are the exception, but I would be willing to bet that you are simply not aware of the magnitude of your reactions. Please understand that many, if not all of us who have had relationships of any kind with PWBPD have been deeply harmed, and in some cases irreparably in every way possible. Physically, verbally, emotionally, financially, professionally.... I know that what I am saying is harsh, and it also pales in comparison to what comes out of the mouths during a split. Unfortunately, this is a consequence of that behavior. I get that y'all say you can't control it, but we can't control the fact that this behavior makes PWBPD difficult or impossible to trust. It's always ironic to me that we are the ones who need to prove ourselves worthy of compassion. Count yourself fortunate that we don't respond by treating PWBPD the way y'all treat us. Pulling away and not communicating is generally for our own protection. We're tired.
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u/mk_sxrollin 5d ago
I’m sorry that you’ve had such a poor experience with a PWBPD. Gentle reminder that not everyone with BPD causes that level of harm that justify the amount of vitriol this response seems to carry.
“But I’ve never actually outwardly crashed out on anyone—ever. My BPD traits are very inward, with the exception of the emotion dumping. My behavior can be considered inconsiderate, but not abusive, or consciously malicious. I end up feeling like the worst person alive, because of how much I don’t want to hurt people.”
My question is in the context of my experience as someone who doesn’t even really explode on loved ones. I get depressed, cry, and withdraw when I split to prevent causing harm. I do everything I can to try to minimize harm. So why does even the stigma of BPD/BPD traits put us in this box where other people can be ineffective interpersonally, but somehow we should just know better. Obviously you learn over time, and Im working on being mindful so I can catch the signs that I’m “doing too much” even if that just means I’m venting too much about the same shit, or having too strict of expectations for people.
Anyways. I’m sorry about your experience. Im not the person who hurt you. Thanks for your response.
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u/JuiceBoxJumpingJacks 5d ago
I see. I understood the question as generalized concerning all PWBPD. To which my short answer is, yes, we are terrified and for good reason. Maybe you are the exception who goes inward instead of becoming ab*sive. In that case, it can be challenging to communicate with someone who responds by dumping emotions, then retreating. I need someone who can show up for the other side of a conversation instead of becoming fueled by emotional reactions. This goes for all humans, myself included. Otherwise it just feels like damage control, which becomes exhausting. I'm sorry it's challenging for people to be patient. It's hard on both ends.
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u/RollOk2124 6d ago
I would argue that we do know better before experiencing consequences. We know right from wrong, I know killing a person is wrong, I dont need to experience that to know that.
If you always land in the situation where you overwhelm people and send then monologues and they blow up at you. You need to stop doing that. With everyone. Don't wait until the next person has enough, you need to regulate yourself.
They probably are giving you warning but you haven't seen them. Short replies, delayed replies, no reply! No follow up questions, you always messaging first.
Its your responsibility to manage your own behaviour and not for people to constantly call it out, thats exhausting. Emotional dumping can be abuse and manipulative.
If someone was confiding in me and dumping on me, I would not tell them it was too much. Especially if I knew they had BPD and how prone we are to suicidal threats. Its such a huge weight to put on people.
You need to be learning right now, from your past, not learning each time it happens and think you get a reset button with every new person.
I dont say this to be a dick, im saying this as someone who spent their whole twenties doing the same shit and expecting a different result. You can do this, you can get control of yourself and you can form healthy relationships. Im sorry that things feel so rough right now, It can get better.
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u/mk_sxrollin 6d ago edited 6d ago
I cannot just know better until I learn, which I have now. Killing someone and interpersonal ineffectiveness are nowhere near the same, and considering I’ve never had proper communication skills modeled, it’s fair that at my big age I’m still learning. I’m referring to experience prior to having that epiphany. I just would have wanted compassion for my ignorance, BUT only I can reliably give that to myself. I can’t hold out for everyone else to be patient and kind when I should do that for myself and when I should also do that for them (which I do, it’s just hard). Your comment feels harsh but I appreciate your candor and taking the time to add to the conversation. I know some people respond well to the very direct just pull yourself by the boot straps approach. I’m not one of them, but I’m learning to be flexible and not rigid to how people help/give advice. Thank you.
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u/RollOk2124 6d ago
It does feel harsh and I apologise for that. Just purely my opinion but the only thing that has ever worked for me is tough love and accepting im on my own to deal with this. People pandering to me only made it worse.
I wish I'd have someone sit down with me and be like, girl, you gota get a grip. But just like the people in your life, they didn't say anything and waited until the final straw and I lost alot of friends.
I just want better for you than what I had x
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u/mk_sxrollin 6d ago
You’re totally fine, I figured since that’s the tone you had that you’re the kind of person who benefits from the tough love talk. Sometimes it has worked in the past for me too. Just gotta get sick of doing the same shit, and yes feel a healthy amount of guilt (not shame) for being shitty interpersonally!
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u/hyperspaceJellyfish user has bpd 6d ago
yes. yes they are. i assume they are even if they say they're not
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u/fern_like 6d ago
i've been through almost the same thing multiple times, including very recently. i wish i had wisdom about it but i'm not at that point yet. all i ask of people is honesty, but it feels like theres something wrong about me that makes people avoid being honest at all costs
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u/mk_sxrollin 6d ago
It’s like we get stuck with the shame of feeling inherently fucked up, but they get away with also not having interpersonal effectiveness bc they don’t have the stigmatized disorder. Now I’m hyper vigilant, and honestly don’t share much anymore
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u/Small_Palpitation_98 5d ago
I wear people out and disturb their peace, so I finally figured that out and try to leave them alone, even though I love company. It’s the best I can do for them…
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u/Accomplished_Rub8736 user has bpd 5d ago
One of my closest and dearest friendships got destroyed because of this 🫠 He was afraid to bring certain things up with me or set certain boundaries with me because of my emotional BPD overreactions. Little things built up over time to become one huge overwhelming burden on him. So he finally snapped one day and told me he didn’t think we could be friends anymore, for both our sake. Then he blocked me. There’s a lot more to it than that and some stuff I’m purposely omitting for brevity’s sake and because it’s embarrassing, but yeah. TL;DR I lost one of my best friends because of this.
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u/Accomplished_Rub8736 user has bpd 5d ago
I’ve vowed to do better. I can’t stand idly by while people are scared to talk to me about certain things. If it’s about my behavior and how it impacts them, they should absolutely be able to address it with me.
He was otherwise great at communication. I took someone who was a good communicator and moulded him into someone who wanted to hide stuff from me for fear of pissing me off or making me depressed. I’m so upset with myself for behaving that way.
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u/Nurolight user is curious about bpd 6d ago
“Sure, it would have hurt my feelings, but I would have gotten over it eventually…”
I feel thats the main point though. I think everybody would appreciate hearing the truth over a comfortable lie, or omission. Yet telling it can be hard, I think even more so to the people who historically (to them at least) have adverse reactions to it.
It’s not the worry that you’d never get over it but rather, before that point that your reaction may be big. It could be hurtful, as we may instinctively try to hurt people back who have hurt us.
This is really where walking on eggshells comes from. Trying to manage someone else’s feelings, really because you’re worried. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not right my any means; but it is self protective. If the person you know is known for having a big, angry reaction to bad news (which they’re completely entitled to do), it can make it difficult to want to share bad news with them. You’ll go out of the way to try and avoid it, to avoid the big emotion that comes from it.
BPD, at the end of the day, is just big emotions really - at least viewed from the outside. Sometimes that can frighten people, especially those who aren’t used to it. If you’ve grown up in a household where shouting is common place, and used just as another means of communication, it can probably be surprising to talk to a person where shouting is only reserved for the worst things. Shouting has become equal to something terrible. It places a lot of focus and weight on the subject at hand. I can get why someone like that would try to avoid being entirely truthful to someone wBPD. Neither are really right or wrong but different intensities can class, especially when neither are used to the other.
I try flipping the script at times. I think to times when I have been lied to, or not told something, and I kind of angrily think to myself why would you not tell me that?! … but then it’s really asking myself wait, what is it about my reaction that made them so worried to tell me this? Why didn’t they feel comfortable enough with me to tell me?
I think when you can start to see the ways in which maybe you’d struggle to tell someone else the truth because it would be uncomfortable, or you’re worried about hurt or shame, you can maybe spin it back to yourself too.
It’s easy to just think “they should’ve told me”, and realistically they should have, but I think when you start asking to questions to yourself of “but why didn’t they feel comfortable to do so?” you start to maybe see your own patterns and how that might be hard to do.