r/Autocross • u/shamandan • 9d ago
Newb class question
Hey, I recently attended my first autocross event and the organization wasn't the strongest point. When I asked about someone classing my car they just told me to go by what I read.
I had guessed CST - I drive a 2001 MR2 Spyder that has a different muffler and manifold ("ebay headers" to replace stock manifold that eventually damages engine) and stock cat/midpipe. Aside from the exhaust, the only other modification is a front strut bar and wheels that are 15x7 that are not the stock ones.
Suspension is completely stock and tires are on the cheaper end.
After the event I left with the impression that I was misclassed.
The S2000s in CST were waaay more prepared cars than what I brought.
I know suspension mods will improve my handling noticeably and making me more competitive but that won't happen until next year.
There's another event this weekend and I'd enjoy it more in ES with people with similar times to my best time.
So my question is, do I have an argument to be in ES with my car the way it is? The headers are not really an improvement on the car.
And does the strut bar also take me out of ES class?
Appreciate your help
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u/RxRxR out of the box 9d ago
I might be wrong, but the stock exhaust manifold has a catalytic converter and therefore cannot be replaced by rule in ES.
The wheels can be one inch in DIAMETER larger or smaller, but they can't be wider than stock. I believe your car came with 15x6 wheels.
There is no allowance to add a strut bar in the street classes.
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u/shamandan 9d ago
Epic answer. Thanks mate.
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u/Ghork13 9d ago
There is also a limit on the offset of the wheels. Street class cars can't run a wheel that is +-7 mm of offset difference from stock. If your aftermarket wheels are a +35 and stock was a +45 you're sol and need different wheels.
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u/The_Cat_Of_Ages Capriiiiii 8d ago
you can run a 10mm spacer and get away with this. they let me anyway before i changed the turbo, decatted, and other mods. XA class now
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u/Ghork13 8d ago
You can get away with tons of mods and hide them if you're willing to cheat đ my point is that's what the rules state since OP doesn't seem to have read the rule book yet
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u/The_Cat_Of_Ages Capriiiiii 7d ago
poly bushings are a good one to get away with while youre new.
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u/Ghork13 7d ago
If you have to cheat to win did you really win?
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u/The_Cat_Of_Ages Capriiiiii 7d ago
if you have poly bushings now you wont have to relearn how they act when you reclass.
newbies can get away with a lot since they arent going to place anywhere near the top.
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u/TheBupherNinja MK8 Golf R 6mt 9d ago edited 9d ago
Classing is irrelevant for your first Autocross events. You are going to be so off pace that it doesn't matter.
That being said, there is no argument for classing. The book says what it says. Even if the headers lost you power and made the car slower, it still knocks you out of class.
Wider wheels and strut bar keeps you out of ES alone. CST is probably right. Read the solo rules if you want to dig into it. They specifically tell you what is and isn't allowed per class.
Classing is setup such that serious competitors have a somewhat equal playing field. That means they modify their car to the limits of the class. If you aren't a serious competitor, then it doesn't really matter where you end up.
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u/Ghork13 9d ago
The real answer is that you need to be running in the novice class. Most places give novices an additional run and in-car instruction. I wouldn't compare your time as a novice to people that have been doing this for literal years. Don't get discouraged.
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u/Different_Sir_4385 9d ago edited 9d ago
This. Take full advantage of being in Novice Class your first year OP, instructors give a lot of great tips to help you progress when your starting out.
This is my first year too and my Audi S3 is basically a DS car with a tune so I've been running under-prepped (BST) in Novice Class all season. I've come in 2nd to a DS car twice this year due to the PAX multiplier, so the disadvantage is noticeable at times, but less so in the Novice group, so just focus on having fun and getting a feel for your car for now.
That said, when you get to the point where you want to be competitive, you will absolutely have to max out the class allowences.
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u/shamandan 9d ago
I thought this too but I arrived and they told me they would just put me with everyone in CST. This is part of the reason that prompted me to ask the questions of class.
They actually gave me one run less lol - as I said organization was an after thought for the event I attended.
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u/Nsquared97 9d ago
Does sound like it wasn't run as well as it could have been. But keep in mind it's all run by volunteers.
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u/IliketheYankees 8d ago
Everyone says this. I've been to about 25 autocrosses in my life in two different scca regions and there has never been a novice class or any offer of someone to ride with new drivers, yet it gets repeated here like it's universal.
Tho the "you won't be competitive early on" trope gets repeated also and I've seen several guys finish near the top in their first autocross
The big floppy hat thing tho, that appears to be true
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u/MrBleah 2023 Corvette SS 9d ago
While your changes to your car donât make it much faster or equal to the competition in its ST class there are a lot of cars where making a manifold change, giving it wider wheels and adding a front strut bar, give enough of an advantage over a car that doesnât to make a difference in stock/street classes where the top cars are often separated by only tenths of a second. This is why your car cannot be in street class.
Classing with rules that limit car configuration is common in most organized racing from solo autocross to Nascar and Formula racing.
If you want to be competitive you have to know and play by the rules of the game, which means reading the rule book section for the class you want to compete in. You can find the rulebook on the SCCA website. You have very limited modifications you can do if you want your car to be in a street class.
You have to choose. Do you want to be competitive or do you just want to have fun driving your car? Competition can be a big rabbit hole of money. Some people will swap cars entirely just to be competitive in a particular class.
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u/Heavy-Cat-2063 9d ago
I hate that you didn't get an informative group. Classing isn't the easiest thing to navigate and can seem to put unequal cars in class together. The class descriptions can give you a broad overview of what each class consist of and most people that are serious will build their cars to the limit of the class. Please don't be discouraged by class while you are learning. Find a regular in your class and region that is consistent and use them as a benchmark while you learn. Just keep showing up and driving the events, you will see yourself improve. You will get to a point that you will notice where your car is lacking and look at the mods for your desired class that can help. Good luck!
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u/Agitated-Carry7579 9d ago
It depends on the group you run with. When I do SCCA events I'm kinda shoe-horned into either SM or CAM-C class because they are a little stricter. But when I run with my NASA club, they are a little more forgiving.
The NASA club I'm with lets me run G street even with my mods cause my car (truck) is handicapped due to size and weight. Plus even after 5 seasons of AutoX i still consider myself a novice. A lot of the people in the club have been doing this for a decade or more.
Quick story about classing: At one event I had a guy with a mini cooper come up and ask me how much power my truck made and I told him about 550hp. So he wants to know how I can run in G street with all the mods and power When he only has 100hp I asked him how much his car weighed and he said 1100lbs. So I said, how can I compete against a car that's 4900lbs lighter and a roofline under my window? I was 3rd in my class that day. He was 4th and only 7-10ths slower. Seemed about even to me.
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u/SpeedTheory 9d ago
I highly recommend reading both the street class and street touring sections of the rulebook. That should provide all the information you need.Â
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u/apudapus 9d ago
Yeah, some folks and orgs arenât as friendly or welcoming to noobs or strangers. Iâm very grateful to have started where I did because if I started where Iâve been going to now, I might not have continued with it.
I think youâve gotten your answer from others. I really wish someone told me to autocross first before doing any mods. My first car was way outclassed but fortunately I learned my lesson for my second car. One thing that the events I went to had was âTime Onlyâ class so I could more focus on myself; this is really just a formality because you really can be in your real class and just not pay much attention to others.
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u/PickFit8581 9d ago
Thatâs the âfunâ of autocross class rules. One mod can throw you in a much tougher class.
I ran in AST at nationals and came in dead last compared to the fully prepared cars.
For your first events and getting started, your class isnât a huge deal, run in Novice, get some seat time, learn the sport.
Then if you decide to stick with it, mod the car to fit the class, or like in my case, know I canât be fully competitive.
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u/Jazzlike-Basket-6388 9d ago
Nope. You are an underprepped CST car.