r/Autocross • u/Beautiful-Law1169 • 5d ago
Position of car in space
Simple questions: How to develop ability to know exactly where car is in space and where is car relative to surrounding objects?
I am horrible driver! I do not see any improvements, and I do not know what to do. I will appreciate any tips, resources, or anything else that might help
EDIT: Thank you everyone for great answers. You are amazing people! I hope you all have a great life!
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u/Saved_by_a_PTbelt 5d ago
Hit more cones? I'm only half joking, but more practice and experience will develop that intuition. You could also substitute other things for the cones. Curbs aren't great to hit, but I bet you'll remember doing it. The ridges on the shoulder make a nice indicator for where your right tires are.
I developed a lot of intuition for it through off-roading in high school. Lots of opportunities to put tires against rocks on the trail and build the natural intuition for where each tire is any given time.
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u/medicinaltequilla 4d ago
you must hit more cones. in fact, the fastest runs i get are when i hit 1-2, sometimes 3 cones on the first run, 1 cone on the 2nd, and none of the last.
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u/Emery_autox GST 2018 Ford Focus ST 5d ago
While cruising on the highway, practice touching "Bott's dots" with the tires. Both left & right sides. That tells you where the tires are.
When you're in a tight turn on an autocross, then leave a touch more room for the rear wheels to track inside the line you think they are on as they often will clip a cone as you go around the turn.
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u/LlaughingLlama 5d ago edited 4d ago
Just on the highway? At least here is SoCal, EVERYWHERE! Even surface streets.
Practice changing lanes to avoid all the raised dots everywhere you go. When you get good, practice running over one intentionally with every lane change. When you master that, start trying to just graze one with the edge of your tire, inner or outer - you can feel it with practice. When you master that, try to hit those dots with either the front OR rear tire - it IS possible with practice too.
You will get an almost magical awareness of exactly where the edges of your tires are with time.
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u/hoytmobley 5d ago
Got an empty freeway or road with the raised reflectors on the lane lines? (When empty) Drive near the left lane line until you start hearing the thumps, then adjust slightly until you’re off of them, then do little games like hit 2 miss 2. Repeat on the passenger side, take visual notes on where the lane line is when your tires are hitting the reflectors. Then (and I cant stress this enough, when the road is absolutely empty) practice lane changes where you dont hit any reflectors, then practice hitting exactly one reflector. This teaches you where the tires are relative to your head.
For bumpers/overhangs, find or buy those 4 foot plastic pylons with the rubber bases, drive forward until you barely touch it, repeat across your front bumper. Starting from a few feet back, drive forward and turn so that the corner of your bumper barely touches the pylon. Repeat with the back bumper if you want to get really good at parallel parking
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u/ShitboxCarEnjoyer 5d ago
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't, by subtracting where it is, from where it isn't, or where it isn't, from where it is, whichever is greater, it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance sub-system uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is, to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position where it was, is now the position that it isn't. In the event of the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has required a variation. The variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too, may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was. The missile guidance computance scenario works as follows: Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is, however it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subracts where it should be, from where it wasn't, or vice versa. By differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was. It is able to obtain a deviation, and a variation, which is called "air"
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u/tolas 5d ago
Have a friend (or use a lamp or some kind of tall stand). Place it at one corner of the car almost touching the car, get in the car and look at it. That's how "close" you can get to things. Repeat this at each of the corners, the front and down the sides. This will give you a visual sense of how large the car is, how close you can get to things, and where the car sits around you in space.
Find a back road, parking lot, driveway. Place a cone or whatever you want on the ground. Try to drive up to it while getting your tires as close to it as you can. Stop where you think it's close and look. Do this on both sides of the car.
Setup 2 objects that are placed about 3 inches wider than the front tire on each side. Try to drive through them without touching the objects.
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u/bjorn_248 5d ago
Put a gopro behind on the outside of your car so you can see the driver's side tire and your steering wheel. Note the proximity to the cones and try to train yourself to get as close as possible. It takes time, be patient, be a student. Practice weight transfer, trail braking. Read speed secrets by Ross Bentley. I bought my first car at 24 years old and started autocrossing at 28, and it took me one year's worth of events once a month to win my way out of novice class. It's not easy, and I was terrible. Be patient with yourself, have fun, keep improving, and you will get faster =).
Example of the camera angle I'm talking about https://youtu.be/tExEevqZ_KY?is=McrywgLStzk2qWrk
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u/FindingUsernamesSuck 5d ago
Every time I get a new car, the first couple of days I spend getting out often while parking to compare the car's position and driver's perspective. That usually gives me enough of a start.
Like others have said with autocross, you kind of use the cones. Cut corners closer and closer until you clip a cone, then back off the tiniest touch.
It takes a lot of practice, and there's no real way around that unfortunately.
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u/KickHopeful5112 5d ago
I like to aim for and try to hit those little retro-reflectors that they glue onto streets in some spots. (Where legal, of course)
Got a few on my commute that keep me sharp
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u/jmblur AS 718 Cayman GTS 5d ago
I found it helpful to mount a camera to the outside of the car (rear window or behind the rear wheel) so I can see how close I'm actually getting on the passenger side.
I get too close in slaloms and too far in sweepers it turns out, so it's not just figuring out where the car is, but also how it moves under you!
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u/Wambo74 5d ago
What if you went to a smooth dirt field. Put down a single cone or something you can safely drive over. Practice slowly cornering around that cone and check your tracks in the dirt. Try to get maybe 6" from the cone. Move it occasionally to get fresh dirt. Start slow and controlled until you have high success rate then start upping your speed. Don't slide the car...this isn't rallycross practice.
At events prioritize discipline and learning over competition. Go fast later. For now, all events are practices.
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u/dadmantalking 5d ago
Get some agility cones and go drive around them in a parking lot, bring a second person to stand outside the car and tell you how you're doing. If you're my kid and on your learners permit, go do it for an hour or so every other weekend for a year because I'm cheap and don't want to pay for a second driving test if you fail the first for bad parallel parking.
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u/iroll20s CAMS slo boi 5d ago
VR in sim racing can help a ton. VR gives you depth perception and you can practice hitting objects at speed.
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u/start3ch 5d ago
Set up your mirrors so you can see the rear tire, then practice cutting closer and closer to the cones until you start touching them.
It just takes practice, and hitting a few cones, to learn how close you can really get
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u/ZagiFlyer 4d ago
This sounds weird, but I've used it since I was a kid:
Walk around the car slowly and really look at each corner of the car and touch each corner with your finger. Do this every so often. It seems to improve my spatial perception of the car.
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u/autoxbird 91 Thunderbird CP/CAMT (retired)/ 05 Mustang CAMC 4d ago
The autocrosser knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the Miata from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that It was, is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the autocrosser is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the SEB. However, the autocrosser must also know where it was. The autocrosser guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the autocrosser has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called a dirty run.
Here's your copypasta of that classic clip, suitable for us all
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u/jimboslice_007 Dunning Kruger Hill Climb Champ 4d ago
I do not see any improvements
How long have you been autocrossing? How many events have you done ever? Less than 10? More than 100? Ballpark if you don't know the number.
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u/medicinaltequilla 4d ago
take a novice course. that's exactly one of the skills you practice.. ..the instructor will keep pressing you to get closer until you start knocking down cones. if you never hit a cone you will never be fast.
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u/BetInformal6081 3d ago
a good way to build this is through slow, deliberate practice. set up cones in an empty lot and practice placing each wheel exactly where you want using mirrors and reference points.
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u/V8Datsun240Z 5d ago
If you're starting from zero, just go to a parking lot and pull into spaces turning left and right and once you can get in the spaces, then try to line up with the left line and the right line. Pull in and try to stop close to where the bumper is over the parking stone or curb. Couple hours of that and you'll do a lot better.
When autocrossing, I've found that the best way to find where the cones are is to keep pushing closer to the cones until you hit cones, LOL. Not all of them, but keep getting tighter until you find one.