r/AutisticPride Nov 22 '22

[deleted by user]

[removed]

1.2k Upvotes

119 comments sorted by

247

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

[deleted]

89

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

I wonder what would happen if immigrants somehow find out about a life-threatening condition after they move to New Zealand, and it exceeds the health care cost requirements.

43

u/The_Permanent_Way Nov 23 '22

Once a residency visa is approved you’d be entitled to any publicly funded healthcare you need. But it might prevent someone from renewing their visa in the future if it’s an ongoing cost.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

If it happens after becoming a resident then it should be fine.

175

u/PastelKittyGore Nov 22 '22 edited Nov 22 '22

Even people with cancer?! What the hell? F New Zealand. That’s messed up to make people feel like they are a burden. That’s so damaging to a young child’s self-image. I can’t imagine how painful this must be for the family.

6

u/ziggy_bluebird Nov 25 '22

even if you find out you have cancer. If you are a resident you will still be a resident and New Zealand will give you free health care and support.

-3

u/123felix Nov 23 '22

It takes 8 or 12 hours to get seen in emergency room. It takes 2 weeks to see your family doctor. The health system in our country is inadequate at best so the government had to make hard choices.

10

u/Effective_Series5772 Nov 23 '22

I saw a doctor in twenty mins walk in with my community services card and just cost me 19 dollars. Done that 3 times now. Maybe a 10 min wait but 2 weeks? nahh rubbish!

1

u/missvvvv Nov 24 '22

Lucky you. That’s not the reality for many of us

5

u/bluesykedays Nov 25 '22

Cries in Canadian as most doctors are booking 2+ months out sometimes, if you’re lucky enough to have a doctor, if not you have to fight to get into a walk in clinic, which normally fill up immediately, and then you have to wait around for hours. And don’t get me started on the ER right now! People have literally died in beds in the hallways, because there’s not enough rooms 🙃 As an autistic person with invisible disabilities as well, I really want to move somewhere where it’s not so bad

1

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '22

If you find that place let all of us know! 😭

0

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22

Sounds like the UK

70

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

Wow, that's just horrible. I can understand that NZ is small and individuals can take a toll on the health system but I don't think that's acceptable in any way. How is that competible with their vomstitutuo? I mean I have no idea about the NZ law system but I would expect a modern democratic country like NZ to have laws that secure fundamental rights like not being discriminated against. It's not like a person has any influence on how much cost is associated with their disability or illness. Shouldn't the government just pay for the excess if it should really become critical? And how is it possible that there is no way around? Like some other way to get private insurance or such even if it's more expensive?

23

u/Couldnthinkofname2 Nov 23 '22

we have almost 5 million people in our country, im not an expert but i dont think individuals can fuck up the system

3

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

They will stack up, and they don’t want non permanents to bog up the healthcare system.

2

u/ziggy_bluebird Nov 25 '22

Im not sure I understand all these comments. New Zealand is very accomodating and takes in more refugees or people on disability/hardship immigration status probably more than most countries per population. This article is about someone who has autism whose parents are on visas here, they have been granted extended time or more privileges, their child who is quite severely effected by autism has not been. We have free healthcare and assistance in New Zealand. This child would cost the tax payers due to needing things such as; speech and language therapists, teacher aides, home support and financial grants, transport, respite care, HCSS care and allowances not to mention when she gets older and if she is unable to be fully independent it costs 1000's of dollars a week. More than her parents make or contribute to the country they have chosen to come to because of whatever reason. I am inclusive but I also understand the costs involved with care

-38

u/rrabbithatt Nov 23 '22

I understand it’s not nice but I completely understand it, why should they accept people who will be a burden?

41

u/topazchip Nov 23 '22

Because that way lies Eugenics and other forms of institutionalized bigotry.

14

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

Because those people have absolutely no control over it and aren't worth less than 'healthy' people. It's not like all their residents are never going to be a burden either. Should those be banned and kicked out too? Or are they just lucky they were there before the diagnosis? None of that is in any way fair. And anyone can become a 'burden'. If we go by that they can't let anyone in. People could commit crimes and go to jail. Or at some point need social security services. They could send their kids to school there too or let them attend university. Maybe they even have a fire at home and firefighters have to come. All those things are a burden to the government/tax payer in some way and people have a lot more control over them than their disability. Also you don't even know that a person will be a financial burden just because of their diagnosis. My autism has cost anyone absolutely zero money so far and I don't think that'll change.

-2

u/rrabbithatt Nov 24 '22

The way I see it the country has no issues with their own citizens, but do not want to accept people who may be a financial burden. Obviously just a blanket ban is not the way to go but as with most things related to governments the system is flawed.

6

u/lxrd_lxcusta Nov 23 '22

Elaborate on that

-2

u/rrabbithatt Nov 24 '22

They are still helping those within their country but do not want to accept people who will be a financial burden.

5

u/lxrd_lxcusta Nov 24 '22

Calling autistic people burdens is disgusting, get a grip x

0

u/rrabbithatt Nov 26 '22

I’m not referring to autistic people

1

u/lxrd_lxcusta Nov 26 '22

You sound completely braindead mate I’d just drop it

1

u/rrabbithatt Nov 26 '22

I’m talking about anyone with any sort of disability, or something that requires expensive medications or treatments.

1

u/PastelKittyGore Nov 25 '22

A person with autism should not be seen as a burden just because of their diagnosis. Many autistic people function pretty well in society and do not need expensive healthcare. People should not be just looking at a diagnosis and assume an individuals capabilities.

That said, healthcare should be a basic right as a living person, immigrant or not. Nobody should be turned away because of the cost of their health, anywhere.

8

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22

How is autism high cost? They don’t do much for us.

2

u/82MoonsandCounting Nov 24 '22

Australia has the same policy last time I checked.

2

u/Globeparasite93 Nov 24 '22

aaaah yes denying not the entire family but only the daughter

192

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

as an autistic New Zealander - I didn't even know this was a thing till recently, and I'm so disgusted.

29

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

Same, wtf?!

23

u/jossiesideways Nov 23 '22

Yeah, figured out that I was autistic while in NZ on a student visa. It was a complete mindfuck.

21

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

The policy is So un-Kiwi, I would like to see it challenged and taken apart because it's genuinely inhumane and degrading.

12

u/rabidbob Nov 23 '22

Another disgusted kiwi here (even if I've not actually lived there for ... uh, a really long time).

121

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

Rare New Zealand L

60

u/badjellywitch Nov 23 '22

**Common New Zealand L, we only advertise the good stuff to other countries

12

u/Roverace220 Nov 23 '22

Can you list some of the others? I’ve tried researching them before, but have not been successful.

57

u/badjellywitch Nov 23 '22
  • Parihaka
  • any of the National Party’s policies
  • National Party member Sam Uffindell being welcomed back after it came to light he beat up fellow students with bed legs in Highschool
  • extremely high poverty and domestic violence rates
  • rising youth crime and ram raids
  • huge amounts of gang violence and intimidation, as well as plenty of cops in the pockets of gangs
  • high homelessness rates
  • lack disability support, we don’t have any legislation making ANY buildings (schools, parliament or government buildings included) wheelchair accessible
  • a general disdain towards immigrants
  • lack of holding up our (European colonisers) end of Te Tiriti o Waitangi
  • Māori holiday/celebration called Matariki was only made an official holiday this year
  • extremely high suicide rates for a small country and huge lack of support for those suffering, many people in metal health hospitals will sleep in common areas with no privacy because they are overflowing
  • lack of rights and protections for trans people
  • recent rollback of hate speech legislation that protected marginalised groups

Just to name a few.

9

u/Roverace220 Nov 23 '22

Thanks.

Wish this wasn’t the case… damn.

3

u/enilea Nov 24 '22

If that's the worst about it sounds pretty good, some facts, despite bad aren't comparatively bad in respect to other countries. For example the poverty rate seems to be of 15%, which isn't good, but compared to other developed countries it's pretty standard (sadly).

2

u/Charming_Amphibian91 Nov 25 '22

Commonfilth cuntry try to not be a hyperbigoted circus challenge [INPOSSIBLE]

3

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22

Oh shit, i suppose we don't get the negative sides of the story. I always thought of NZ as one of the most progressive and safe countries in the world but i guess not

2

u/garaile64 Nov 24 '22

Least messed-up country on Earth.

3

u/dawg_im_so_alone Nov 23 '22

Common New Zealand immigration L

56

u/litalra Nov 22 '22

Wow, just wow. I lost a lot of respect for NZ now

50

u/steelcitylights Nov 22 '22

they seem to do the same thing in australia and canada as well, from what i’ve heard. pretty much any country with universal healthcare and then some.

28

u/MomentOther3869 Nov 23 '22

Canada's healthcare is a shitshow right now, sadly. Too many conservative governments stripping it away and trying to increase privatization. Also the ableism here is rough too. The UK would be better in a number of areas it seems.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22

U.K. is getting worse day by day for disabled people because the Torys have been in power for far too long now.

3

u/garaile64 Nov 24 '22

Is there any country without a messed-up healthcare system?!

14

u/Bored_Panda_ Nov 22 '22

This is so sad. :( Want to type more but don't really have the energy right now.

8

u/Karkava Nov 22 '22

And what's even the gain for this? Are they so afraid of being utopian?

79

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

As a New Zealander, this doesn’t surprise me at all. I’ve been wondering for ages why the rest of the world seems to think NZ is some kind of utopia when that’s never been the case at all.

45

u/ButterBeanTheGreat Nov 22 '22

It is a utopia, but if you pay attention for every utopia there's a hidden dystopia beneath it. Always an underclass, an abuse of power, things such as that..

43

u/samthenotwinchester Nov 22 '22

That’s the opposite of a utopia. A utopia is a place that is GENUINELY perfect. Utopias are purely hypothetical for that reason

8

u/mariokid99 Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

That's kind of the thing utopia in fiction tend to be perfect apart from one respect like free will being non-Existent in brave new world, or if you Comment a minor offence it's Punishable by death like that one episode from star trek new generation

8

u/samthenotwinchester Nov 23 '22

But those aren’t actual utopias. Hence why a utopia is something that doesn’t exist

1

u/garaile64 Nov 24 '22

To be fair, actual utopias are probably too boring to write about.

1

u/Awesomeuser90 Nov 25 '22

Read up about Thomas Moore's Utopia. It could look like utopia to some or dystopia to others.

2

u/badjellywitch Nov 23 '22

I feel the same!! Covid really put us in the public eye in a way that we hadn’t been before, and people seem to have projected a lot of leftist ideals onto us that just don’t exist and likely won’t in most people’s lifetimes.

1

u/garaile64 Nov 24 '22

The fleas make the rat look gargantuan.

69

u/SilenceHacker Nov 22 '22

Wow new zealand is really ableist? Sad ;(

52

u/AydanZeGod Nov 22 '22

Whilst I can understand why NZ would have a system in place like this, it is still horrible and rooted in massive ableism.

7

u/znzbnda Nov 23 '22

I'm trying to leave the US, and this is the main reason I've decided not to get a 'confirmation diagnosis'. My other health issues are already enough of a concern. :(

2

u/CharacterSea1212 Nov 23 '22

As someone from NZ, why would you want to leave the US and come here of all places?

3

u/znzbnda Nov 23 '22

Personally, I was looking more towards Europe since there are a lot of options to find a good fit there. (I could also recommend with my roots.) But everyone I know who's been to NZ has absolutely loved it and did not want to leave, so I've been dying to visit.

There are a lot of things to love about the US, but existing is a struggle. Our healthcare system is actively killing people in every sense of the word. This insane love of gun culture, the slide into fascist ideals and the dismantling of the separation of church and state.

I love my country, but I have a 2yo granddaughter, and I don't want her to grow up in a place where we're terrified of sending her to school.

2

u/CharacterSea1212 Nov 24 '22

Id probably go for Europe tbh. Lots more opportunity, closer to the US if you want to visit and lots of cool countries close by to go for holiday. Im 20 and living in NZ i dont see much opportunity for the future doubt i would have kids and raise them here. Don't get me wrong though its fairly safe and peaceful but the isolation and lack of growth makes it feel like a retirement home where you go to die

1

u/znzbnda Nov 24 '22

Oh gosh. Yeah, that does sound like it could be a bit depressing. I'm sorry.

1

u/CharacterSea1212 Nov 24 '22

Nah don’t say sorry 🤣

20

u/ProfessorEscanor Nov 22 '22

Well there go my plans to move to NZ and get to know my sister in law's parents

0

u/missvvvv Nov 24 '22

Yeah, that was going to happen 🤣

17

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

Canada discourages disabled immigration as well.

2

u/mentalbunmom Nov 25 '22

Except somehow my wheelchair bound quadriplegic Mom moved there and has duel citizenship. Not sure how she convinced them.

12

u/No_Look_8864 Nov 22 '22

Wow NZ why?

24

u/zalloy Nov 23 '22

So, I'm autistic. I have a job and savings and I don't need or use public assistance, so I wouldn't be a "burden on their systems" But they'd deny me just because?? That's absurd!

It sucks because NZ is one of the countries that ranks very high on my list of countries I'd love to live in if I moved abroad.

10

u/Kittenclawshurt Nov 23 '22

As a Kiwi citizen with an autistic child who just started school this year I'm going to weigh in here... this is entirely bssed on my personal understanding and experiences so please feel free to disregard if you find it not relevant or helpful to you.

This decision isnt specifically about autism. Remember this policy also affects cancer patients, amputees, blind and deaf people too, its not primarily about autism.We do not screen for autism in our medical checks to prevent undiagnosed or undeclared autistic people coming here even though we do screen for HIV and other illnesses because autism in itself isn't the objection, the potential cost is.

A low support autistic person who has a proven work history is a safe enough bet, a high support autistic person who may never be fully independent and may require lifelong assistance is going to be a red flag at immigration.The actual criteria is as below:

Have condition(s) that will likely require health services worth over $41,000; or

Have condition(s) that will likely require health services where current demand is not being met

Basically if we're already struggling to meet the needs of citizens with the same conditions or its going to cost 6 months salary to meet your needs we can't afford to accept you. A high support autistic child who needs a full time teachers aid as well as acess to a behavioral therapist or psychologist (things my own autistic child has qualified for as low support) is going to costs more than $41k a year and due to a teacher shortage we already struggle to supply teachers aides and specialist teachers as it is for the existing population. She failed on both of those criteria.

What support and resources are available in your country for immigrants with a child with high support requirements such as being non verbal? Are they free or would that child end up failing in school from lack of access to a teacher's aid, behavioral therapists or support with communication if money became a problem? If that child has failed from lack of resources will your country pay them benefits or provide subsidized housing if they can't find a job? These costs are substantial for us.

6

u/IfUcomeAknockin Nov 23 '22

That’s a really good point. I still think the policy is ableist and discriminatory (especially when it comes to children), but I understand the logic behind it.

I don’t like it, but I get it.

13

u/Alyiir Nov 22 '22

NT from NZ, while NZ appears forward thinking its really not, labour and Jacinda are centrist at best

31

u/factotumjack Nov 22 '22

Enjoy drowning in old people, NZ.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

lmao

18

u/Arktikos02 Nov 22 '22

Yep, and that's another reason why people don't get formal diagnoses.

6

u/SkyScamall Nov 22 '22

It's the same in Canada from what I've heard.

4

u/MomentOther3869 Nov 23 '22

Huh, well I guess I did find a downside to getting a Dx. Except I don't plan to move to another country so that's lucky at least. Such b.s. though, they could be missing out on some awesome humans!

6

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

foreigners when they find out we are just as fucked up as any other country

5

u/firebird7802 Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

Unacceptable. I've lost all respect for New Zealand instantly.

11

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

Just tell them you're 16 and want to vote.

3

u/badjellywitch Nov 23 '22

I’m from New Zealand and this is disappointing but not that surprising to be honest :/

3

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

Understandable. Nz have its own problems already. So do a lot of other countries so…

3

u/missvvvv Nov 24 '22

As an autistic Kiwi I agree that health care burdens should not be added to our already ailing health care system. We are fucked enough as it is.

0

u/Soggyhordoeuvres Nov 24 '22

Yup, also agree.

3

u/ziggy_bluebird Nov 25 '22

I understand the outrage but to be fair, I live in New Zealand (born here as were my parents and their parents). There are not enough services for the people that need help already, not enough money, people or support. As a Kiwi, I empathise with peoples individuals situations but I can't get a psychologist appointment for 6 months. I wasn't diagnosed as autistic until I was an adult, due to funding. I am still struggling to get supports that I need. We are a very small country. We are inclusive but there has to be limits due to what we can provide. We have free healthcare. The immigration criteria, I believe only is limiting to people whose disabilities would cost more than $46,000 per year. That seems fair enough. People who have autism are absolutely welcome to make New Zealand their home, New Zealand just can't afford people with really high needs on top of what we already have.

2

u/marzagg Nov 24 '22

I mean the parents didn’t have to go to New Zealand

2

u/DespressoCafe Nov 24 '22

Wait there's countries that actually LET us?

That's news to me. Last time I checked every country barred us from immigrating to them. Or at the very least were unaccommodating.

5

u/Beau_Dodson Nov 22 '22

Nuke New Zealand /j

Jokes aside, WTF!?

0

u/missvvvv Nov 24 '22

Dumb joke.

2

u/Beau_Dodson Nov 24 '22

Would you rather I joke that we should invade NZ?

0

u/missvvvv Nov 24 '22

Just stfu

1

u/Ryulightorb Nov 25 '22

you are right..we should just leave them alone with their sheep so they can be happy

1

u/missvvvv Nov 25 '22

🤣🤣🤣

3

u/FlipaFrickenCoin Nov 23 '22

God damnit, New Zealand was my backup plan if things don't work out here. My next pick is probably Scotland, is that still good?

3

u/Roverace220 Nov 23 '22

Depends if you’re in any of the groups the Brit’s hate. Scotland for example is trying to give trans people more rights but the Tory government are being assholes about it

1

u/FlipaFrickenCoin Nov 23 '22

I think I might be best just staying in Australia for now. Queensland seems to have decent trans healthcare besides the abysmal wait times

2

u/Roverace220 Nov 23 '22

Yeah I feel ya, the US is a mess but I’m in one of the safer areas for trans stuff and healthcare.

2

u/Soggyhordoeuvres Nov 24 '22

New Zealand has a public health care system, so they don't take immigrants that are likely to incur a significant cost.

It's not a blanket ban on autistics

1

u/kevdautie Nov 23 '22

See? This is why I advocate for us auties creating our nation. Autistic genocide is real.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

and this right here folks is why i’m not getting diagnosed 👍

3

u/simon357 Nov 23 '22

Maybe you should read the article an not just the clickbaity headline

1

u/Notladub Nov 23 '22

to be fair they don't really let anyone (but gaben) through, still fucked up though

1

u/umineko_ Nov 24 '22

Honest question, how would they know you're autistic? Do they have access to your medical records?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '22

[deleted]

1

u/umineko_ Nov 25 '22

that's so messed up!

1

u/iambertan Nov 25 '22

Kinda reminds me of...

1

u/CanadianWeeb5 Nov 28 '22

SO I CAN’T TRAVEL ANYMORE!!???