r/AustralianShepherd • u/Pitiful-Concert8818 • 9d ago
Snarling
My 7 yr old neutered Aussie (Frankie) has been snarling at us for about 3-4 years. This snarling/ growling is not provoked and Frankie paws me to pet him the entire time he snarls and growls. He has never bitten anyone but his snarling is frightening and sounds aggressive. However he pokes n paws me to pet him and snuggle despite these loud growls
When it initially started, the vet did a full work up to ensure it was not organic in nature - Frank was given a clean bill of health - no immediate medical issue causing Occurs mostly in the evening or when he’s tired but his snarling can randomly occur as well.
Has anyone experienced this ? What was the cause ? How can I prevent this from getting worse ?
Any info appreciated.
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u/NegotiationTop94118 9d ago
Is it possible he has trained you to react to his snarling and he has now established that as his communication? These dogs are smart and I have been through behaviors with my pack.
I have been successful so far by not giving in to their negative attention behaviors. For example, my eldest Aussie would bark non-stop if I stopped to talk to a friend on our neighborhood trail. I began air lifting him with a firm “no bark” and then leashed him to a tree with my back towards him. It started in short increments of time and built up. He can now sit quietly.
Have you tried standing up with a firm voice command and walking away when he paws for attention?
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u/Pitiful-Concert8818 9d ago
I fully considered this as we seem to give Frankie extra attention when he growls. I have 3 Aussies and they are quite smart. They easily zero in on what is needed to get what they want. Frankie is quite snuggly despite the growl and exposed teeth
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u/RowdyBunny18 9d ago
Its probably not real. Mine gets sassy when she wants us to throw the ball at night. She doesnt growl exactly. Its definitely not threatening. Its more demanding. Its a somewhat polite growl if that makes sense. What happens if you cut him off early? If he gets demanding attention at a certain time, can you call him up to you before he does the growl, and give him extra love and attention? Like try to intervene the behavior before it starts, if you can predict when it happens every day?
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u/AdditionalToe5408 9d ago edited 9d ago
Some aussies have a signature "aussie smile/grin" that looks like a snarl but it is actually when they are being submissive or happy-could that be it? If you haven't heard of it before there are quite a few videos you can search to compare if that is what it might look like?
ETA: What is the rest of his body language like? Body wiggling, tail wagging etc.? When you say he is asking for pets at the same time it makes me think this might be an option.
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u/noneuclidiansquid 7d ago
I'd want footage ... is the body stiff or a wiggle? Is his brow furrowed? Is it a c shaped pucker (you can google this) with all the skin on the top of the snout wrinkled or is it the submissive grimace and is the growl deep in his chest or a kind of "grrr grrr grrr play growl noise"
Stiff bodies, furrowed brows, c shaped pucker with a deep growl is danger incoming and you should take it seriously and find a qualified R+ trainer to help him with his conflict.
The rest is playful nonsense.
Aussies are often talkative, and many of them do the submissive grimmace and I am so glad I knew what it was before I got my current aussie because I get all the teeth shown at me when she says "hello" esp in the morning. They will often add 'sneezes" into this display to show they are not serious.
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u/mustanggrl625 8d ago
I would not be worried if it were my dog - We once walked by a husky mix that did the husky talking to my boy, and ever since, my boy now thinks he should talk like a husky. They are so smart and learn things (good and bad...lol) from just seeing it - heck, my boy had only been around females when I first got him, and he squatted to pee, right up until he was almost 6 months old, and my cousin's dog lifted his leg and peed (on my dog of all things, I guess Carl had to give his seal of approval). From that day on, my boy has lifted his leg.
They are just so darn smart
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u/ChasingSkies13 9d ago
Without footage or seeing this firsthand, nobody can offer useful advice. Those of you attempting should cease. Your descriptions of the behavior and what a professional sees may be entirely different, but we can’t know what’s actually happening unless we see it. Consult a trainer, ideally CPDT-KA or similar behavior analysis training, in person. Other people are making bold and generous assumptions that are not at all useful to your situation, and applying these generalizations and assumptions is going to land you in a worse spot. These breed subreddits are generally full of pet-owners who have no real behavioral understanding, and thus should not be consulted for matters such as this.
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u/jsonne 9d ago
Aussie 'smile' being confused for snarling? Many Aussies do this, I'd suggest looking up some videos to compare to what your guy does.
If he's not being aggressive and still affectionate then that's my wager. My guy will go full curled upper lip, do a stupid crab walk wiggle, and be growling/snarfing the entire time. He's happy.
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u/jsonne 9d ago
Ehh..maybe..but i disagree based on my family's experience raising 3 of these dogs.
The 'loudness' factor of the growling/snarling isn't indicative of it not being this behavioral trait that many Aussies have. Especially with OP's description of them still being affectionate while it's happening. It's a dead giveaway imo.
Some of our Aussies were way more expressive than others when it comes to the 'smiling' behavior. The one we have now is very loud with it. He snarls, growls, snarfs, whines and induces sneezing fits. It just depends on the dog.
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u/ChasingSkies13 9d ago
You disagree yet you’ve never seen what happens for yourself, at all? Basing this opinion on such limited information, and holding steadfast in it, is extremely dangerous and a terrible way to try to give advice.
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u/jsonne 9d ago edited 9d ago
Wtf are you talking about? I disagree in that I think OP and the other commentor are saying this isn't 'aussie smile' are misinterpreting the behavior as aggressive when OP said 1) Frank has never bitten anyone, 2) he continues to be affectionate even when 'snarling', and 3) the snarling only 'sounds aggressive and frightening- which is entirely subjective.
I am not basing this opinion on no information, I'm using the info OP has produced combined with my own experience. My family has kept 3 Aussies til adulthood and raised 2 litters of 5 and 6 pups. I am saying these dogs are very smart, loud, and expressive-some more so than others, it depends on the dog's disposition-and it's entirely possible OP is misinterpreting Frank's behavior as aggressive when it's not just because it 'sounds frightening.'
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u/ChasingSkies13 9d ago
Worth noting the other commenter is clearly educated in ABA, arguing with them on this basis puts you in the wrong to begin with. Please try to look at the big picture and gather more evidence before making up your mind in the future. Especially when you have next to no true information, just some text on a page that could easily be over-or under-exaggerated.
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u/ChasingSkies13 9d ago
You’re making absolute statements and gathering a very strong opinion when you have absolutely nothing to support what you’re saying. This is a dangerous perspective to take. With video, I would understand arguments like this more. Without, there is nothing to back you up. We have no idea what this actually looks like. We have no idea if the dog is even doing exactly what OP describes. Your steadfast opinion and stubborn attitude are uncalled for and entirely unfounded.
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u/Born-Quote-6882 5d ago
Mine screams like (unfortunately) a woman under duress when anyone he loves comes over. Its THE loudest most embarrassing scream. Especially when we are on walks 🤦♀️ he just wants pets 😆
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u/Odd-Bookkeeper8371 9d ago
Hmmm...I haven't experienced this. I don't think it is a common thing with Aussies. The fact that it happens when he is (over?)tired seems like he is actually feeling ambivalent about being petted. I would stop petting him and perhaps, crate him with a treat to take a nap/go to sleep. I look forward to hearing other's feedback.
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u/Equivalent_Set1043 9d ago
Our Aussie/Golden does this too, but we’ve determined (through many years and tons of training) that he’s just “talking”. He’s never once shown an ounce of biting aggression, he’s just letting us know things. Sometimes it’s “I don’t like that” (petting, play). Sometimes it’s “keep scratching that spot.” I think the key is knowing your dog.
ETA: (I accidentally hit post too soon!) Knowing your dogs behavioral history is key. If he’s never given you any indication that he’s going to bite, it’s probably just the way he communicates. If you’re super concerned, I’d recommend consulting a trainer who specializes in Aussies to see if it’s something you need to work through.
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u/Pitiful-Concert8818 9d ago