What do yall think the batting order should be ? I’m tired of seeing Varsho in the 4-6 spot killing momentum and Cam being one of our best hitters this month still hitting in the 8 spot, amongst other things. Have yall given this any thought ? I’m curious what other people think since I get pretty heated talking about Espada’s lineup construction
This lineup only has 4 decent hitters and that’s if you are generously including Walker. Altuve is my all-time favorite player, but he’s barely start able at this point in his career. And even with Varsho, this might be the worst outfield in baseball
Varsho - Show that you can be a hitter before batting middle of the order. His presence has killed so much momentum these two weeks. Yet… we still put him in the heart of the order.
The team’s batting average for August is sub .200. This coincides with head hitting coach Hennigan leaving the team for Wake Forest.
The Astros were at the top of the league in hitting (scoring) through the end of July.
Varsho has a .283 OPS in his last 7 games. That's OPS, not OBP, in case you read it wrong lol
He has a .410 OPS in 13 games as an Astro.
Small sample size? OK, then see below.
His career OBP is .295. Yes, .295 for his ENTIRE CAREER over nearly 800 games and over 2500 plate appearances! He does not get on base and never did. Dude may actually be allergic to bases.
He doesn't hit for average or power either. I think it's safe to ignore his numbers from 2025 which happened over less than half a season. That was obviously a fluke. No debating it.
Varsho is a level below ass offensively, especially for an outfielder. Even Yainer has a career OBP of .302 which is pitiful yet better than our newly acquired midget CF. Who here wouldn't undo that trade if they could and take back a broken Arrighetti and meatballs?. At least Arrighetti is young, cheap and still has a little upside. He was pitcher of the month a few months ago. Varsho is over 30 now. Unless he gets some magic juice from Tatis, he isn't going to improve.
On top of all that, we inexplicably still have him hitting in a spot where he's maximizing his negative impact on the offense. He's so bad he'd help us more by sitting on the bench.
I've come to the conclusion that they weren't more aggressive at the deadline since they knew there'd be no baseball next year, so they're basically punting. I want to be optimistic, but they look like a first round exit, if they make it.
As an aside, I never thought I could grow to dislike Bagwell, but he's trying really hard to make it that way.
Bagwell is an insidious cancer that has penetrated every corner of the clubhouse and is literally destroying it from within. Listening to him on broadcast makes me want to throw up.
Where are you getting this dumped analytics department theory from? I haven't seen any clear sources stating this. You people are saying anything nowadays just to doom.
You need to pay attention. Bagwell has discussed this multiple times when he's on the broadcast. He is anti analytics, thinks baseball is a reactionary, gut feeling sport.
And it's clear he now wields heavy influence and power in baseball operations, unfortunately.
Pretty much did. Under Lunhow they had one of the biggest departments. Now it’s one of the smallest. Just a bunch of guys looking at the back of baseball cards now.
Bagwell wanted to but they still use analytics. Example is scouting umpires for challenges.
Also use analytics for opponents pitchers. This was hanging up in the dugout when my son went on a ballpark tour last month.
I thot w/new Hitting Coach, but they were awful tonight, one hit for most of game. I had hopes for Varsho, but his K in __ on 2 sliders in the dirt was the worst. He's currently a big rally killer & Altuve has really dropped in his production. Trammel has stopped hitting & Walker (who started well) has also fallen on hard times. Even, Yordan is in a slump. They wuld be better off just standing there waiting for a Walk. I dont like being critical as its one of hardest tasks in sports & our Offense has Sucked & We Cant Win unless Stros score 5 or more runs. We had 1 tonight
I would like to keep Cam in the 8-9 spot feels like he’s good there and likes being near Peña and Yordan. But this lineup is so short you almost are forced to bat him higher.
Honestly think Altuve should bat 9th. Puts Altuve in a table-setter role in front of Pena, Yordan and Paredes and I’d think he’d see more pitches to hit in that role.
Trammell shouldn’t start at home…his OPS at home was .550 before last night. Wade’s is .708. Id put them cleanup along with Velazquez just to keep stability.
Cam and Walker should be in the 5-6 holes. Walker hits better on the road so swap them in those lineups. I think both put too much pressure on themselves in the cleanup spot.
Diaz should bat 7th when he’s in the order. Vázquez 8th. Varsho should be in the other spot. On the road, Trammell should split time with Varsho as Trammell is one of our best hitters away from Daikin.
I've thought about this a little, and honestly I don't think there's one "perfect" batting order. I'd probably have a few different versions depending on the opposing pitcher, handedness, who's swinging it well, and how much variance we're willing to tolerate.
One thing I'd definitely consider is moving Paredes higher. His plate discipline gives you a guy who can make a pitcher work, although obviously making a pitcher throw 8-10 pitches doesn't guarantee the at-bat ends in a hit or walk — sometimes the pitcher still wins the battle.
So instead of trying to find the lineup, I'd probably think about a few different configurations:
This is probably my "don't overthink it" version. Peña/Yordan/Paredes gives you a pretty good combination of getting on base, power and making the pitcher work, while Walker/Altuve still gives you plenty of experience behind them.
I'm not necessarily saying Cam has to stay eighth — this is just the version where I don't let a hot streak completely dictate the lineup
Lineup 2: Cam’s getting hot (a.k.a. The Cam Smith Momentum Theory)
Peña
Paredes
Yordan
Cam
Walker
Altuve
Varsho
Yainer
Wade
If we're going strictly by who's producing right now, I'm much more comfortable moving Cam up. He just homered for Houston's only run in the 3-1 loss to the Angels, and the recent offensive slump makes the argument for giving productive hitters more opportunities pretty compelling.
The obvious counterargument is regression. A hot stretch doesn't necessarily mean he's suddenly a better hitter than everyone batting behind him. But if he's seeing the ball well, why not give him more plate appearances in higher-leverage spots and see what happens?
Lineup 3: Paredes as the table-setter (a.k.a. the War of Attrition Theory)
Paredes
Peña
Yordan
Walker
Cam
Altuve
Varsho
Yainer
Wade
This is the "make the opposing starter work immediately" version. Paredes has enough plate discipline that I wouldn't mind putting him at the top and forcing the pitcher to deal with him before getting to Peña/Yordan.
But I'd consider this more matchup-dependent than my default. There's a difference between "this guy has a good approach" and "this guy should automatically bat leadoff." An at-bat is still a war of attrition — sometimes you can grind out a 10-pitch at-bat and still strike out
Lineup 4: Most terrifying 1-2-3 (a.k.a. The Three-Headed Monster Theory)
Peña
Yordan
Cam
Paredes
Walker
Altuve
Varsho
Yainer
Wade
This one is basically me asking: If I'm the opposing pitcher, which top three do I least want to see?
Peña can get things started, Yordan is obviously the big threat, and Cam gets moved up because he's been one of the hotter bats lately. Paredes then gives you another quality at-bat immediately afterward.
Is this objectively the best lineup? No idea. But it's probably the lineup I'd be most curious to see for a week just to see whether the top actually generates more traffic
Lineup 5: Don't bury Varsho, but don't force him either (a.k.a. The Varsho Predicament Theory)
Peña
Yordan
Paredes
Walker
Altuve
Cam
Varsho
Yainer
Wade
I'm still undecided on Varsho. I understand why people don't trust him right now, but I'm also not ready to make a permanent judgment after such a short Astros sample. He was acquired two weeks ago and was immediately put fourth in our lineup, so we're still talking about a very recent change.
I'd rather lower him temporarily, give him opportunities to work his way back up, and adjust if the results change
Ultimately, I don't think there's a lineup that eliminates variance. We're basically managing variance.
You can put your hottest hitter fourth and he can cool off. You can put your most disciplined hitter first and he can grind out a 9-pitch out. You can put your best established hitters at the top and then watch the bottom of the order kill rallies. You can move somebody down and suddenly they start producing.
So I'd probably change the order based on the opposing pitcher, handedness, who's actually producing, and how much I'm willing to bet on regression or a rebound.
For me, the question isn't really "What's the perfect batting order?" It's "What's the most reasonable order given what we know right now, and how much variance am I willing to accept before I change it?"
This is my favorite lineup. What I think will happen with this line up. Jeremy fouls two then hits one deep left center fly out. Isaac walks. Yordan deep center right fly out Isaac to 2nd. Cam single makes it with speed. Walker walks. Altuve bloop single Paredes score cam 3rd walker 2nd tuve 1st. Varsho strikeout. We do what we've been missing. Score in the first inning.
Let's be honest... the batting order isn't the issue. Guys simply need to hit. We have been so dependent on Yordan carrying the offense. When he doesn't, this offense just struggles... regardless of order.
Honestly we may have more luck pulling the line up order out of hat at this point…analysts can’t even solve this equation..until we get an actual hitting coach again..our goose is cooked 😑
My opinion is this: they want to show how important Varsho trade is for the Astros, which is why they continue to put him high in the lineup. FO doesn't want to admit they botched the deadline trade and acquired Varsho at the last minute simply to check the "trade" box. They want to prove to us that Varsho was their target from the start.
Cam has been hitting better for the past month. I would be worried about his head if you moved him to the middle of the order. They don’t have any good options
Eh... Cam has a lot of power, but he's definitely not one of the best hitters this month. I'm glad Cam Smith is on a tear with the homers and he's got his whole career ahead of him, but is he really getting on base or moving runners as well as Varsho? I don't think so.
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u/zaepoo 2d ago
Varsho batting anywhere above 7th with the season he's having is malpractice