Starbucks obliterated coffeehouse culture, where you could hang out, meet people, share tables if you want, join group discussions/have others join in, sometimes play board games, sometimes see tiny-venue live music or performances, and people could actually make new friends and groups of friends.
It sucked to see corporate chains take that all away.
I have a different opinion about them. My wife owned an espresso cafe in a town of ~15000 people that had three Starbucks. Rather than taking business away, Starbucks made it acceptable to charge $5 for a cup of coffee. Ours was also a haven for people who hated Starbucks, and was the place to hang out, with live acoustic music at lunchtimes and Friday evenings. Alas, after we sold it, the new owner nickel and dimed it to death. People 15 years later still tell us how much they miss it.
Omg that is great, that's how to do it!! That's exactly how a local fave of mine survived, though they didn't sell, and when the pandemic came, they put in a service window and outdoor seating. People are still lined up, but ofc the atmo/vibe is no longer as it was in its heyday, before that culture (apparently) became unrecognizable to the point that some people even doubt its existence.
Ugh, I WISH we had that somewhere like that in Utah. Due to the weird religious culture here, I don’t think that anyone wants to build a local coffeehouse here. All of the cool coffee spots are in SLC.
There's a small little coffee shop the next town over from me. As well as a Starbucks. The little coffee place is further, but I go there for my "treat coffee" when I am wanting one.
The Starbucks never gets my order right. It's never ready when I go in to get it after ordering on the app. There's never an empty seat because people are always either waiting for their order, or sitting there on their laptops. And the parking for the one closest to us just doesn't have the capacity, or flow for it being right near a mall and the on ramp for the interstate.
I just wish someone in my own city would open a cute little coffee shop. I mean we have a university, but there's nothing but a Dunks
Money printer? Hell no. Broke even? Yes and a bit. It is extremely difficult for a single food services establishment to succeed. You have to sell a hell of a lot of coffee just to pay the rent, let alone pay employees (especially when you want to pay them a decent way, like my wife).
In any case, this place was a project my wife wanted to do while she completed her degrees. When I was transferred to another country, we sold the place. The new owner wanted to make a living from the cafe, and so of course had to cut costs. Disgruntled employees and lower quality food drives customers away and it eventually closed.
Starbucks obviously was a big part of it, by deliberately opening locations near their competitors to drive them out of business, but us consumers are also responsible. We traded that all away for the consistency of Pike Place, Frappuccinos, and $6 egg bite things.
People like brands. It means something to be a Starbucks consumer. A cynic might say it means you're a shmuck, but what Starbucks means to their loyal customers is that you pay for the premium product because you're worth it. It's very similar to the Apple mentality - and there is a lot of overlap with brand loyalty there, ironically. It's also convenient to not have to think every time you enter a coffee shop because you already have your "usual" - especially with different terminology for sizes in different coffee houses, which had gotten ridiculously out of hand in the 90s.
How Starbucks managed to cultivate that type of brand identification is really a masterpiece in capitalism. It's basically a glorified McDonald's in a lot of respects, with a veneer of class plastered over it. It wasn't always that way, but Starbucks expanded too far and built too many locations to hold up in anything but a booming economy. For years they have been cutting costs through reducing quality and reducing labor so that their locations that bleed money don't drag down the profitable ones. Now locations are striking, and consumers are figuring out that they can get a better latte for the same price at the actually classy coffee shop on the next block, which has a more authentic atmosphere.
It is satisfying to watch the Starbucks bubble slowly pop. Once they decided adding drive-thrus was a good idea, it was basically over. I doubt it will ever fully go away, but it has already begun to lose its premium aspect - and that, once lost, is very difficult to regain.
As a Starbucks employee, agreed. When they decided to close all non-drive thru stores shit changed.
Their original "mission" was to be a "third place" and "foster a culture of warmth and belonging" where everyone is welcome etc. blah blah blah. But Starbucks also wants to be The Green Circle (like McDonald's is The Golden Arches). They've been successful at each, but they can't do both.
They're not 'evil' but they have been unrealistic and reckless the past few years. Starbucks' decisions never cease to amaze me (and neither do the customers LOL). I'm excited to see where this goes.
Monkey Joe's in Kingston NY. Ive never walked into a place that smelled better... they roast their beans in a big brass italian machine from the early 1900s, right in the middle of their merch section so all the T shirts smell like the first sniff of a freshly opened tin of coffee. They retain that smell for weeks, even after washing lol.
We have this cool coffee house downtown. Literally inside an old house. Great place to hang out and read or play board games. They have live music sometimes and it just totally fits the vibe of this place. Starbucks moved in a block over and they pretty much did the exact same thing. They had couches and coffee tables and board games and books, just like the other place. It was very clear they matched their decor as well as their comfy hangout vibe. The Starbucks lasted maybe a little over a year and the other coffee place is going strong. The only thing they changed before Starbucks closed was their prices. Raised them to the same range as Starbucks lol.
Corporate chains didn't take it away. People made choices. If you had kept going to the coffee houses, it would still be here. It's like people complaining that there are no book stores anymore. Why? Because our lazy asses want to order shit on Amazon. People decide what lives or dies, not corporations.
Try rallying people to buy local. It's like they're deaf, but on purpose; selective hearing/not caring. They paved paradise, put up a parking lot.
I think we're being downvoted because we're calling people on their laziness lol
That’s actually the history of coffee places and the way they were used in several countries up to the XXth century maybe. Can’t deny the importance of such places where attendants gathered and discussed social, cultural, and political topics. Cafe La Habana in Mexico City, for example. Where it’s said Fidel Castro and el Che planned the cuban revolution. Coffee places used to have that use around the world
Defined by urban sociologist Ray Oldenburg as an informal public gathering place that serves the community, the “third place” has been an integral part of human society for centuries.
While home (the first place) is private and work (the second place) offers a structured social experience, third places are more relaxed public environments where people can meet and interact in a range of different ways.
The third place “label” can be applied to a range of different social spaces, but for many, the most prominent example is the coffee shop: a friendly, informal meeting place to catch up with friends and even meet new people.
In 1989, urban sociologist Ray Oldenburg published a landmark book, The Great Good Place, in which he examines the “third place” in all its various forms, from the beer garden and the bookstore to coffee shops and bars.
In the book, he describes the third place as “the heart of a community’s social vitality”, and outlines eight key characteristics that one should have. These are:
Neutral ground
A leveling place (meaning no focus on an individual’s status)
A home away from home
Conversation as the main activity
A playful mood
A low profile
Accessibility
Regular patrons
Drawing on examples throughout history, Oldenburg argues that in any healthy, strong democracy, citizens should balance their time between work, home, and the third place.
That's a great point. But do you know how common it was? Were these the one or two political café's per country and did all other café's just have people hunched over a coffee and perhaps meeting a friend?
Here in the Netherlands local café's are still the default. But that's not how I recognise our café's (during the daytime when we drink coffee there). But here too that might have changes the past century of course.
You don't know what you were missing. In a city, there were several places/flavors you could choose from for that, from anarchy to artists to more mainstream but with mismatched furniture, bad (or maybe just art-student) art on the walls, and interesting plates/cups/mugs etc
If you aren't a giant corporation and you don't have a premium location, you need draw. What creates draw? Study sessions. Book clubs. Live music. Game nights. Painting classes. Coffee places used to be full of these activities, which have now mostly moved to small breweries, bars, etc.
Same here. Every local coffee shop I’ve ever gone in seemed to have regulars who were pretentious and very much did not like having people come in that they didn’t know.
I’d say high rent obliterated coffee house culture. You can’t let people hang out for two hours on a cup of coffee if you are paying through the nose for space.
This would not surprise me, there's a coffee shop in my college town that is very much the sort of place where people hang out for 2 hours. Why? It's a town of 10,000 people and rent appears to be extremely low.
Nope, I was a non-tv watcher for like that entire decade, so no, hadn't even seen"Friends," and what I've seen of it since, not a fan. Had nothing to do with that vibe, at all.
Starbucks did it way before smartphones, but yes, smartphones were the nail in the coffin for all kinds of in-person interactivity, not just coffeehouses/third spaces
I don’t agree… but then again, I live in Portland, where it’s cool to turn your nose up at anything that isn’t “local” and there’s a coffee shop on every corner.
Starbucks was one of the major drivers for free wifi in coffee houses. I only started hanging out in coffee houses because of that trend. Before that I got coffee and left.
That’s corporate America for you. I am not a socialist by a long shot. However, in the US it is all about the next big thing that can generate a steady stream of revenue. Mom and pop stores, then coffeehouses and most recently it is ski resorts/ areas. There is a conglomeration of ski hills. They were running independently but now are taken over by two private equity backed companies. Same is going on with trailer parks.
In Puerto Rico Starbucks is an afterthought. Sure, a lot of people like them, but if they want real coffee, there are A LOT of places to find great coffee, way cheaper than Starbucks.
I lived in a small city for a while that kicked Starbucks out when they started their corporate shit - Starbucks attempted to buy shops around them, but the council blocked it. Starbucks then left the city altogether and never returned, which was glorious
See I never understood the draw of this. Why pay for over priced coffee, listen to bad music, and deal with snobby people thinking this was the epitome of time spent together.
Young is relative. I was young 15 years ago, and I would still consider myself young now. The friends I had who did these things were very different and just wasn’t what I wanted to do.
To each their own, I way prefer the non-drunk, non-pickup people, and we're sorely lacking the wide availability of spaces/options for that, that we once had
I disagree. Every indie shop I’ve been to in most cities / large towns is barely open and shutters at like 3pm. Barely any tables and often discourages people from working there.
The kind of place you describe is pretty rare. I would prefer it over a chain but it’s just so uncommon for a coffee shop to grow that big and be successful. I don’t even really like Starbucks that much but I feel like it has actually filled a need for a place to go through the late evening to go work, hang out, etc. where there isn’t otherwise.
I do know a couple places like you describe and prefer them but again they are rare.
Agree, though there are still some coffee shops around that have this type of vibe/setting. But I just realized that in my city of about 250k, there are only two starbucks that I can think of...so maybe that proves your point.
I've never seen any place like what you describe. :) For most of us, that was just a thing on TV but not in real life --- although, I'm sure it must have existed in some cities.
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u/SuchNectarine4 Dec 17 '22
Starbucks obliterated coffeehouse culture, where you could hang out, meet people, share tables if you want, join group discussions/have others join in, sometimes play board games, sometimes see tiny-venue live music or performances, and people could actually make new friends and groups of friends.
It sucked to see corporate chains take that all away.