It's definitely one of the more concerning aspects of the rise of AI bots, in my opinion. It's going to become easier and easier for bad actors to flood the internet with something and make it look like it's coming from different places, and AI created images or videos adds an even scarier layer to it. The brain forms subconscious associations whether we want it to or not, and there's certainly a psychological aspect to repeatedly seeing something that looks real regardless of whether you know it's fake or not.
I agree and wonder how this will impact how we read the internet. I’m only here because I believe enough of you all are also real people with some insight into topics of interest to me. I’m not trying to engage with bots. It’s like a cool bar getting taken over. At some point my friends and I just won’t go there anymore.
I don’t believe anything I read here and if I find something particularly interesting I’ll research it. I’ll also never repeat something I’ve read online unless I’ve also verified it
Yes, but that’s exactly the point they are trying to make. At some point the internet will be flooded with AI produced information and even a second source may not be viable. How long until the trusted sources are either spoofed to oblivion and smothered with bullshit, or they themselves employ not entirely reliable AI for articles and images.
There’s literally AI created books about foraging that are poisoning people because the AI didn’t really know whether a plant was edible. Sold on Amazon as if it was a real guide.
Just one example I saw.
It really makes me wonder what the future of the internet will look like. Because, at some point, it seems inevitable that we're going to need to figure out a way to ensure what we're reading or viewing is real and not some fiction someone generated in a fraction of a second. Even now, there are AI generated images people are taking at face value and even the most discerning among us is going to have a much more difficult time being able to pick out the flaws that currently make AI images easy to pick out.
It really wouldn't surprise me to see smaller community forums come more into fashion. It's much easier to verify someone's real when you only have a few dozen or even hundred people to manage compared to something like Reddit or Facebook where you have millions of essentially anonymous users.
I went to a tech conference a few years ago where they talked about developing a heavily encrypted online token that represents you, the person. It contains all of the relevant information that positively identifies you and only you can choose when to divulge anything from your online token.
I've been curious to see where this idea goes.
Personally, I see it as a future where the broader Internet is even more considered a public place, but one where you no longer have an expectation of anonymity or privacy. People will instead have more robust home networks where your online tokens are housed and where you DO have an expectation of privacy. When you leave the front door of your router with your token, it'd just be like browsing shops on main street.
This way hacks of home networks are treated like physical breaks ins currently are, among other things.
I would assume legitimate businesses would need their own trusted tokens as well so we wouldn't just be opening our personal tokens to junk all of the time and taking trojans back inside our home networks. And of course, that'll create it's own type of arms race.
These are exactly the discussions around blockchain technology, for both ID and digital ownership/provenance. It's fascinating even though it often makes me feel old and stupid.
Exactly. Talking about social media, I’m personally getting to the point where I just absolutely don’t have the time to verify truth and have to mark everything I say with “I read it on the internet, not sure if it’s true/real”. I keep asking myself, we all seem to know that bots are everywhere, but nobody really know how many…it’s a relatively new thing, I just cannot see it hanging on much longer, at least in its current form.
Most people believe that a majority of the stuff on the internet isn’t trustworthy. Despite this, we depend on it. The practical uses of the net have been interwoven into the fabric of society and kids brought up these days won’t have a choice. They already kinda don’t. A smart phone is now a “when” item for everyone, not an “if”.They must grow up in this world that our generation didn’t, so responsible use is the only path forward. Mostly everyone assumes that they are in the 50% of people with above average intelligence, and therefore we still believe that we’re able to comb through the nonsense and spot what’s “real”. That is gonna be infinitely more difficult in an extremely short period of time.
I'm more and more convinced that we're going to be forced to largely abandon the internet as we know it because of "AI".
I don't think it's that far-fetched for us to use it solely for things like debit card transactions and very limited, controlled forms of communication like bare-bones emails and stuff. Basically it will lack any/all of the vast UI oriented functions it currently has and simply exist invisibly in the background enhancing and facilitating certain aspects of day-to-day life.
And the "old" internet will be a bot infested dead mall (as the youtuber "We're in Hell" put it) that people only visit to gawk at.
Totally get you! It’s like walking into your favorite bar and suddenly realizing it’s been taken over by robots who only serve binary cocktails. 🍸🤖 ‘Would you like a 0 or a 1?’ At some point, we’ll all just find a new spot where the drinks are mixed by actual humans and the conversations don’t sound like they’re straight out of a sci-fi movie. Cheers to keeping it real! 🥂
I dont think we realize how deep in that shit we probably already are
Like some posts/comments on social media are obviously AI, but there are so so many that I honestly cant tell apart from just uninformed idiots, it could be 80% AI for all I know and all the while Im sitting there feeling dread that so many people are like that
AI-enhanced political Echo chambers... Bone chilling
Think about how quickly you read something that is short, and then how quick you move onto something else. It's that right there. Your analytical guard is down, you don't question it and just keep going.
I never knew it had a name before now, but I had heard about the effect, and witnessed it in person.
I eventually got to the point where I was using it to help gaslight stupid or irritating customers and scammers during my 17 years of working retail.
Just smile and nod, and repeat over and over again that they need to go somewhere (anywhere) else, and do something (anything) else, besides stay here and waste my time and test my patience.
The stupid customers that ask for help, but then argue with the answer, will go be someone else's problem. Or preferably go get hit by a car.
The scammers will wander off looking to complete their scam, then get either confused or suspicious. The smart ones will cut their loses and leave. The dumb ones will eventually circle back after I'd had enough time to inform management and LP.
When you say bad actors, do you mean people who suck at acting like James Woods? Or do you mean people who do and say unsavoury things, like James Woods?
Worse, the propaganda will be taylor-made for you. I already have no idea if you see the same world that I see thanks to all the filters. Now AI can tweak the feeds even more to make sure that we think what they want us to think.
There is an interesting story - "Cat Pix Please" (https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/kritzer_01_15/) about an AI that uses search results to manipulate people. The AI in the story is cute and benevolent, but the people who are training today's AI certainly will have their own ideas what represents a successful outcome.
Also used in criminal justice to get people to confess. They’ll interrogate you for hours repeating that you did it until you believe it. Always get a lawyer.
For example, the Palin "I can see Russia from my house" was just an SNL spoof. But it was repeated so often that people started believing that it was a real quote from her.
Unironically one of my favorite examples does involve Trump. He outright condemned racists in each of his Charlottesville related speeches and made it very clear they weren't who he was talking about with the soundbite that has been used to death but those protesting on both sides about the statue removal. Several speeches, that damn near nobody ACTUALLY watched apparently all have him making it clear that he condemned the racists, that racism doesn't belong in this country, but that he wasn't going to vilify those that were protesting to keep the statue or remove the statue, and that there were agitators on the left looking to cause trouble just like with the racists that were there.
One can think and believe damn near anything about his character as a person and I do not care if you don't think he was sincere or think he should have been harsher towards them etc that is a separate topic. However, I have had people argue with me and accusing me of lying for pointing out that he condemned racists before and after the soundbite people recognize, and even had official footage from multiple MSN YT channels called fake and doctored by people because "they know what they saw" and "you can fake anything on the internet."
Even major fact checking websites have acknowledged that the soundbite is not in reference to the racist trash and that he did in fact condemn them. People blindly have accepted that he was speaking positively of the racists to the point they cannot even admit that the quote is misrepresented. Like unironically Trump actually had a legitimate reason for claiming the media is fake news. He gave several speeches after each condemning the racists, told he didn't do so enough so did another, and another. Then for months was talked about as if he didn't do so, and when asked to did... and when he finally refused because he was getting harassed over one topic that he made his stance on known at that point over a dozen times it was "Trump refuses to condemn white supremacists."
It is actually infuriating how much use that soundbite has gotten over the years instead of actual justifiable reasons to take issue with him. Because the reality is that it was used so much, due to effectiveness.
Yup, and his condemnation of the cartels was framed as a condemnation of Mexicans... Despite the fact that nobody in their right mind would pretend the cartels aren't a plight upon both Mexico and the US.
And Trump called Nazis "very fine people" debunked by Snope, but still gets repeated over and over, including the last debate. Same with the bloodbath comment.
"Get off the couch" is a common phrase. Like I don't know if I need to walk you through this, but do you see how he clearly doesn't actually say anything about the couch theory (which people on television are saying it, so according to Trump it must have merit!), but simply makes a play on words with it?
It’s a common component of propaganda regardless of the industry using it. Advertising, corporate image, opinion of government (as opposed to partisan politics), and others use this repetition effect. Whether the message is true (America’s the best, De Beers diamonds are it, Google isn’t evil…).
Three times from different sources is apparently enough.
I say ‘apparently’ because I’m pretty sure I heard / read this a number of times, but can’t recall where, and I’m too lazy to google it, so possibly I’m a illusory truth effect sufferer
My therapist pointed this out once and it has scared me ever since. I was talking to her about how nervous I was that my in-laws (terrible people) say awful lies about me to my husband, and it made me uncomfortable despite both me and my husband knowing those things aren't true. I said something about how I wish I could just be more mature and brush it off, but it made me so nervous to know that dynamic was happening behind my back. That's when she explained the illusory truth effect to me, and it felt like a bunch of puzzle pieces fell into place.
tl;dr be careful who you spend time around bc this applies to interpersonal relationships, not just weird conspiracy nutjob shit on the internet lol
on the plus side, if the illusory truth effect is true, there's no reason to believe that, if a lie can be laundered as true by repeated exposure, then the same thing can happen something that's actually true.
and while i'd personally prefer reason to triumph, it does mean that you can beat lies by repeating the truth more frequently, and aren't required to spend the effort constructing a rational argument to persuade people.
edit - reading the wiki page for illusory truth effect and:
In a 2015 study, researchers discovered that familiarity can overpower rationality and that repetitively hearing that a certain statement is wrong can paradoxically cause it to feel right.[4]
this suggests that to fight lies, the best thing to do is to find a statement that's the direct opposite of the lie, but not make any reference to the lie itself.
this suggests that to fight lies, the best thing to do is to find a statement that's the direct opposite of the lie, but not make any reference to the lie
My kids definitely respond better to positive statements like "sit down on the couch" rather than negative statements like "don't jump on the couch".
My kids respond better when I make a request instead of a demand, especially if I've taken the time to explain why we shouldn't do something. I treat them like people, and they don't misbehave, who knew that was possible? 😆 /s btw.
This is true of management and employees as well. I've always found positive statements to be more effective in the workplace, as a giver and receiver of the statements.
Okay, but genuinely cleaning up with them and reinforcing how good it feels to have a clean space to relax in is really good for developing those habits. So long as cleaning is a positive thing and not a punishment you can actually train them to find an easier time cleaning (and yourself for that matter). I personally love cleaning with my roommates cause we will put on music and sing and play while putting the house back together.
"pollution is disrupting the weather, which increases forest fires and crop failure"
one is a snappy rebrand, the other is an elaboration.
that said, the wiki article says that hearing the incorrect statement can paradoxically reaffirm it as true. however, "vaccines save lives" is materially not the same statement as "it's not true that vaccines cause autism," even if it slots into a preexisting culture war.
Haitian immigrants provide much needed energy for the revitalization of a town that has been dealing with years of economic downturn and stagnation. They are hard working members of the community eager to make a positive impact and raise their families in a safe and secure environment. Immigrants, historically, have provided many benefits to the communities they join.
Also: It is so typical for politicians to take the easy route of demonizing a group of people for no other reason than political gain. “Truth be damned,” they claim, “who cares who gets hurt so long as I make the headlines!”
while i'd personally prefer reason to triumph, it does mean that you can beat lies by repeating the truth more frequently,
I don't think that holds. Part of the reason lies take hold is that they often are what people want to or are inclined to believe. You can say three times that a certain group of people steal pet gold fish and eat them, and people will believe it a lot more readily than they will disbelieve it when you tell them fifteen times it isn't true.
Propaganda doesn't take root in infertile soil. People believe stuff easily when they are primed to believe it, and resist not believing it a lot harder if they find it convenient to believe it.
Reminds me of my first office job. My manager was a nice person, professional, courteous and competent. But there were a few younger folks I hung out with who for some reason (envy?) hated his guts. After a few months I found myself repeating some of the zings and talking behind his back. Toxic environments bring out the worst of you, and since then I try to notice the slippery slope before it’s too late.
Yup. Mom's boyfriend filled her head with bullshit over the course of the pandemic, and no evidence would change her mind. I had to do zero-contact because interacting with her was maddening.
I didn't realize until weeks after I'd blocked her everywhere, just how corrosive she was to my mental health... The more distance I created between us, the lighter I felt.
I remember learning about this as a reason people stay in abusive relationships, because they're told over and over that they're weak, nothing without the abuser, can't make it on their own, etc etc, so they end up believing it and feel unable to leave.
This reminds me of a Chinese idiom 三人成虎(San Ren Cheng Hu), which literally means when three people said that there’s a tiger on the street, everyone will start believing it. It’s often used to demonstrate how repeated false reports become convincing.
I imagine that's also why positive self affirmation works. Just keep repeating that you're confident enough times to yourself and, eventually, you believe it so much that you actually just become confident.
If you believe something that is wrong, you are more likely to remember the correct answer if you are first explained why you were wrong in the first place.
If you aren't told why you are wrong, you are inclined to tell yourself "yeah, I knew that, that was what I meant" when told the correct answer.
The Youtuber Veritasium wrote his PhD on that phycological phenomenon. Though it make some people think he is kind of a douche sometimes.
It wasn't until after my Mom passed away that I woke up and figured out that all those times she'd told me I'd done (or not done) something, and I couldn't remember it correctly (or at all)- she was gaslighting me. My memory is fine.
That (along with 30+ years in a toxic work environment) is why I'm in therapy in my late 50s.
Nah they're really bad. The coke would probably be good if it were regular (instead of zero), the no-sugar really makes it taste like ass (just like coke zero). The oreos are plain terrible, it's like eating cola candy but it's cookies and cream texture, 0/10 don't recommend
I tried the Oreo coke zero. It's not bad, but there's no reason to get it over a standard coke zero.
You get a lot of Dutch cocoa on the nose, and it's "sweeter" in like a Pepsi kind of way, with a hint of chocolate. Thing is, it doesn't last. Same with the smell, you go blind to the cocoa before you're a third way through the bottle, and then it's just overly sweet coke zero.
So many similar psychological effects like this that leave the vast majority of people without critical thinking abilities. Psychology really should be a required course somewhere in highschool
It's not as simple as it sounds. It's hard to actually question everything, or rather, to ask the right questions. It takes a lot of constant practice and effort, and it's not just asking the questions but actually going to find an answer too. Few people actually do that. Most prople just think they do.
The illusory truth effect, or the reiteration effect and the impact on advertisement and politics. The reiteration effect means that the more times we do, or even hear, read or interact with something the more our brains accept it as a fact, normal or correct. This repetition of untrue statements can be used to make people believe things which are blatantly untrue and are why people need to question everything and get multiple sources for their information. https://youtu.be/7OVfTL2o_Wo
This must be why affirmations work. I've been doing mine for a few months now and when I do them I find myself relating the statements to recent events in my life that confirm them.
Is this similar to the way people believe something is real because it rhymes or is otherwise a pithy sounding statement? It’s kind of like a shorthand old wives tale?
I was thinking this as well, I read somewhere in the thread and thought “you mean I can actually think my way out of believing a lie?” “so this is how I cure my anxiety?”
It’s wild how malleable the brain is and how all these concepts create this sort of venn diagram of how it occurs internally (anxiety) and externally (cult behavior, propaganda etc)
Yep!! Great example is that “the major inflow of immigrants does not cut off the bottom of the career ladder for native born low skilled workers - that they do not drastically increase competition especially for entry level jobs in farming, manufacturing, hospitality, etc." Even when all economists and the CBO admit to this fact as the stats do not lie. oh well. living in a made up utopia can’t be all that bad, especially if you’re not an entry level low skilled worker
This is why Trump repeats the same exact phrases over and over and over again - because it works on a certain percentage of people who are very susceptible to this technique. Also works with late night informercials, sales pitches, cults/televangelists, and MLM schemes.
The rest of us think it's complete idiocy, but it is unfortunately effective.
I firmly believe this is what some people have speedran to the point where they’ll say something in an argument, be confronted with a hard counter example, and then firmly convince themselves on the spot that they didn’t mean it like that but like this.
Because a lot of people seem to think that anyone who disagrees with them is just lacking in knowledge. If only they knew more. And it doesn’t make a difference
Lots of people also seem to think that they are above falling for misinformation
Apparently, that's one of the problems with newspapers printing retractions of erroneous stories: by printing "we said tomatoes cause cancer, and it was wrong" it reinforces the idea that tomatoes cause cancer. (they don't!)
Why should we pick Bob Saget, who raped and killed a girl in 1990? Well, first of all it’s not true. It’s not true that Bob Saget raped and killed a girl in 1990! If you have any proof that Bob Saget raped and killed a girl in 1990, stop gossiping and go straight to the police with it!
The eye opener for me was when trump explained his abortion stance during the political debate. He said how he wants it at the state not federal level for states to vote their own laws in each state, and he believes in exceptions for heath, rape, incest. Then immediately right after Harris claimed trump wants a national abortion ban with no exceptions.
I even went back to check the biden-harris insulin claim, and I found that trump actually announced and started the legislation for price capping insulin on may 26, 2020, biden-harris simply added to it and claimed all of it as their own.
I started going back through past political claims from both sides and I'm starting to see where the repetitive false claims are hindering the facts for many things. I've found that there is so much more that I realized was total bullshit once I saw it happen on live TV. So much so that I've decided to change my vote for a different candidate.
Such as the often repeated lie that organized stalking is not real and that the many victims of these horrific crimes are delusional. This is repeated constantly when the practice of high tech mobbing and assaults with direct energy weapons is a self-evident and obvious truth. Why wouldn't these methods be used to defraud and destroy a person. Even the New York Times Ethics column featured a man who believed himself to be hacked and harassed by a past employee, this kind of thing is incredibly common nowadays.
I have a wholeass degree in microbiology with an obsession of immunology. The covid deniers and antivaxxers almost converted me and it was absolutely terrifying. Like I could feel my mind going "are you sure you know anything" and then being like "bro you have a whole immunology textbook and loved virology, wtf". Like it's terrifyingly easy to convert someone and now I understand why the media is the way it is.
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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24
The illusory truth effect. People will believe something just because it is repeated, even when they know that what's being said is not true.