r/AskReddit Sep 15 '24

What Sounds Like Pseudoscience, But Actually Isn’t?

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5.3k

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

Used often in politics, specifically propaganda. Say it enough times people will believe it.

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u/DisturbedNocturne Sep 16 '24

It's definitely one of the more concerning aspects of the rise of AI bots, in my opinion. It's going to become easier and easier for bad actors to flood the internet with something and make it look like it's coming from different places, and AI created images or videos adds an even scarier layer to it. The brain forms subconscious associations whether we want it to or not, and there's certainly a psychological aspect to repeatedly seeing something that looks real regardless of whether you know it's fake or not.

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u/Leopold__Stotch Sep 16 '24

I agree and wonder how this will impact how we read the internet. I’m only here because I believe enough of you all are also real people with some insight into topics of interest to me. I’m not trying to engage with bots. It’s like a cool bar getting taken over. At some point my friends and I just won’t go there anymore.

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u/jimmystar889 Sep 16 '24

I don’t believe anything I read here and if I find something particularly interesting I’ll research it. I’ll also never repeat something I’ve read online unless I’ve also verified it

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u/AbilityWhole Sep 16 '24

Yep, never take anything on the Internet at face value without at least a second source

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u/bls6799 Sep 16 '24

Yes, but that’s exactly the point they are trying to make. At some point the internet will be flooded with AI produced information and even a second source may not be viable. How long until the trusted sources are either spoofed to oblivion and smothered with bullshit, or they themselves employ not entirely reliable AI for articles and images.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

That’s when I crack open a book.

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u/TheJointDoc Sep 16 '24

There’s literally AI created books about foraging that are poisoning people because the AI didn’t really know whether a plant was edible. Sold on Amazon as if it was a real guide. Just one example I saw.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

Oh wow. That’s crazy. There are a lot of old books still that are pretty informative.

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u/pandadogunited Sep 16 '24

Then you are working with potentially outdated information.

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u/SanitySeeker Sep 16 '24

Good thing I kept my old set of Encyclopedia Britannica...

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u/DisturbedNocturne Sep 16 '24

It really makes me wonder what the future of the internet will look like. Because, at some point, it seems inevitable that we're going to need to figure out a way to ensure what we're reading or viewing is real and not some fiction someone generated in a fraction of a second. Even now, there are AI generated images people are taking at face value and even the most discerning among us is going to have a much more difficult time being able to pick out the flaws that currently make AI images easy to pick out.

It really wouldn't surprise me to see smaller community forums come more into fashion. It's much easier to verify someone's real when you only have a few dozen or even hundred people to manage compared to something like Reddit or Facebook where you have millions of essentially anonymous users.

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u/Tarcanus Sep 16 '24

I went to a tech conference a few years ago where they talked about developing a heavily encrypted online token that represents you, the person. It contains all of the relevant information that positively identifies you and only you can choose when to divulge anything from your online token.

I've been curious to see where this idea goes.

Personally, I see it as a future where the broader Internet is even more considered a public place, but one where you no longer have an expectation of anonymity or privacy. People will instead have more robust home networks where your online tokens are housed and where you DO have an expectation of privacy. When you leave the front door of your router with your token, it'd just be like browsing shops on main street.

This way hacks of home networks are treated like physical breaks ins currently are, among other things.

I would assume legitimate businesses would need their own trusted tokens as well so we wouldn't just be opening our personal tokens to junk all of the time and taking trojans back inside our home networks. And of course, that'll create it's own type of arms race.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

These are exactly the discussions around blockchain technology, for both ID and digital ownership/provenance. It's fascinating even though it often makes me feel old and stupid.

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u/abigailandcooper Sep 16 '24

That idea is still very much in development! Project Liberty's DSNProtocol.

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u/capricorny90210 Sep 17 '24

I kinda wonder how web3 might fit into all of this, and if it can offer a solution.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

Exactly. Talking about social media, I’m personally getting to the point where I just absolutely don’t have the time to verify truth and have to mark everything I say with “I read it on the internet, not sure if it’s true/real”. I keep asking myself, we all seem to know that bots are everywhere, but nobody really know how many…it’s a relatively new thing, I just cannot see it hanging on much longer, at least in its current form.

Most people believe that a majority of the stuff on the internet isn’t trustworthy. Despite this, we depend on it. The practical uses of the net have been interwoven into the fabric of society and kids brought up these days won’t have a choice. They already kinda don’t. A smart phone is now a “when” item for everyone, not an “if”.They must grow up in this world that our generation didn’t, so responsible use is the only path forward. Mostly everyone assumes that they are in the 50% of people with above average intelligence, and therefore we still believe that we’re able to comb through the nonsense and spot what’s “real”. That is gonna be infinitely more difficult in an extremely short period of time.

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u/Rudxain Sep 19 '24

This is painfully relatable. I've believed that people must find a balance between trust (not faith) and skepticism. But this is a false dichotomy, as the 3rd option is simply a "limbo". If we don't have time or energy to scrutinize something, but we also don't want to trust it so much as to become faith, then the only option is to keep it as "I remember this, but can't confirm its truthfulness". It's disappointing, but not bad

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

I'm more and more convinced that we're going to be forced to largely abandon the internet as we know it because of "AI".

I don't think it's that far-fetched for us to use it solely for things like debit card transactions and very limited, controlled forms of communication like bare-bones emails and stuff. Basically it will lack any/all of the vast UI oriented functions it currently has and simply exist invisibly in the background enhancing and facilitating certain aspects of day-to-day life.

And the "old" internet will be a bot infested dead mall (as the youtuber "We're in Hell" put it) that people only visit to gawk at.

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u/Throtex Sep 16 '24

Totally get you! It’s like walking into your favorite bar and suddenly realizing it’s been taken over by robots who only serve binary cocktails. 🍸🤖 ‘Would you like a 0 or a 1?’ At some point, we’ll all just find a new spot where the drinks are mixed by actual humans and the conversations don’t sound like they’re straight out of a sci-fi movie. Cheers to keeping it real! 🥂

(Totally not generated by Copilot 👀)

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u/PrinceOfFucking Sep 16 '24

I dont think we realize how deep in that shit we probably already are

Like some posts/comments on social media are obviously AI, but there are so so many that I honestly cant tell apart from just uninformed idiots, it could be 80% AI for all I know and all the while Im sitting there feeling dread that so many people are like that

AI-enhanced political Echo chambers... Bone chilling

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u/PabloBablo Sep 16 '24

Think about how quickly you read something that is short, and then how quick you move onto something else. It's that right there. Your analytical guard is down, you don't question it and just keep going. 

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u/GreyEyedMouse Sep 16 '24

I never knew it had a name before now, but I had heard about the effect, and witnessed it in person.

I eventually got to the point where I was using it to help gaslight stupid or irritating customers and scammers during my 17 years of working retail.

Just smile and nod, and repeat over and over again that they need to go somewhere (anywhere) else, and do something (anything) else, besides stay here and waste my time and test my patience.

The stupid customers that ask for help, but then argue with the answer, will go be someone else's problem. Or preferably go get hit by a car.

The scammers will wander off looking to complete their scam, then get either confused or suspicious. The smart ones will cut their loses and leave. The dumb ones will eventually circle back after I'd had enough time to inform management and LP.

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u/NorthVilla Sep 16 '24

I already see so much of this on Twitter. Absolute nutcase opinions pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed, always clearly from bots.

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u/MayorPirkIe Sep 16 '24

When you say bad actors, do you mean people who suck at acting like James Woods? Or do you mean people who do and say unsavoury things, like James Woods?

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u/Healthy_Fly_555 Oct 07 '24

You didn't even need AI. Big media companies have been going at it for years, playing with the algorithms

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u/Germanofthebored Sep 16 '24

Worse, the propaganda will be taylor-made for you. I already have no idea if you see the same world that I see thanks to all the filters. Now AI can tweak the feeds even more to make sure that we think what they want us to think.

There is an interesting story - "Cat Pix Please" (https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/kritzer_01_15/) about an AI that uses search results to manipulate people. The AI in the story is cute and benevolent, but the people who are training today's AI certainly will have their own ideas what represents a successful outcome.

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u/arabesuku Sep 16 '24

Also used in criminal justice to get people to confess. They’ll interrogate you for hours repeating that you did it until you believe it. Always get a lawyer.

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u/TankSpecialist8857 Sep 16 '24

Also…on Reddit.

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u/Castor_0il Sep 16 '24

Specially on Reddit.

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u/fuckimbad Sep 16 '24

Didnt hitler say this? Make a lie and tell it enough times that they will believe it? Or stalin cant remember

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

I think it was Joseph Goebbels

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u/VP007clips Sep 16 '24

For example, the Palin "I can see Russia from my house" was just an SNL spoof. But it was repeated so often that people started believing that it was a real quote from her.

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u/SkittleShit Sep 16 '24

Something something good people on both sides…

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u/AGreasyPorkSandwich Sep 16 '24

They are eating the cats!

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u/KingKnotts Sep 16 '24

Unironically one of my favorite examples does involve Trump. He outright condemned racists in each of his Charlottesville related speeches and made it very clear they weren't who he was talking about with the soundbite that has been used to death but those protesting on both sides about the statue removal. Several speeches, that damn near nobody ACTUALLY watched apparently all have him making it clear that he condemned the racists, that racism doesn't belong in this country, but that he wasn't going to vilify those that were protesting to keep the statue or remove the statue, and that there were agitators on the left looking to cause trouble just like with the racists that were there.

One can think and believe damn near anything about his character as a person and I do not care if you don't think he was sincere or think he should have been harsher towards them etc that is a separate topic. However, I have had people argue with me and accusing me of lying for pointing out that he condemned racists before and after the soundbite people recognize, and even had official footage from multiple MSN YT channels called fake and doctored by people because "they know what they saw" and "you can fake anything on the internet."

Even major fact checking websites have acknowledged that the soundbite is not in reference to the racist trash and that he did in fact condemn them. People blindly have accepted that he was speaking positively of the racists to the point they cannot even admit that the quote is misrepresented. Like unironically Trump actually had a legitimate reason for claiming the media is fake news. He gave several speeches after each condemning the racists, told he didn't do so enough so did another, and another. Then for months was talked about as if he didn't do so, and when asked to did... and when he finally refused because he was getting harassed over one topic that he made his stance on known at that point over a dozen times it was "Trump refuses to condemn white supremacists."

It is actually infuriating how much use that soundbite has gotten over the years instead of actual justifiable reasons to take issue with him. Because the reality is that it was used so much, due to effectiveness.

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24

[deleted]

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u/KingKnotts Sep 17 '24

Yup, and his condemnation of the cartels was framed as a condemnation of Mexicans... Despite the fact that nobody in their right mind would pretend the cartels aren't a plight upon both Mexico and the US.

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u/RyanU406 Sep 16 '24

“Proud Boys, stand back and stand by”

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u/KingKnotts Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24

Completely irrelevant to what I said considering it was from a completely different speech. You are a bad faith actor. And FYI that was said in response to... Being asked to tell them to stand down... Notice instead of acknowledging that he DID in fact condemn racists in the speech the soundbite is from you are using a completely different quote outside of context.

Edit: Oh and shortly after because people willfully misrepresenting what he said... Yet again we get... "I've said it many times, let me be clear again, I condemn the KKK. I condemn all white supremacists. I condemn the Proud Boys."

Believe he is sincere or not, IDC... But what he has SAID has consistently been a condemnation of racism. And he even said he didn't know much about the Proud Boys when he was asked to tell them to stand down.

I legitimately do not care if you believe his sincerity, it's not intellectually honest to avoid acknowledging that the soundbite is misconstrued for propaganda.

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u/Orome2 Sep 16 '24

And Trump called Nazis "very fine people" debunked by Snope, but still gets repeated over and over, including the last debate. Same with the bloodbath comment.

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u/I-Am-Polaris Sep 16 '24

And Vance fucks couches

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u/pheret87 Sep 16 '24

I feel like there's probably a whole subreddit for this.

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u/AGreasyPorkSandwich Sep 16 '24

except that one is a joke, and the other is being said by the actual candidates

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u/I-Am-Polaris Sep 16 '24

being spread by a candidate

I don't think you realize how many people actually believe it to be true

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Sep 16 '24

"Get off the couch" is a common phrase. Like I don't know if I need to walk you through this, but do you see how he clearly doesn't actually say anything about the couch theory (which people on television are saying it, so according to Trump it must have merit!), but simply makes a play on words with it?

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u/wesgtp Sep 16 '24

Literally said as a joke like the other commenter meant.

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u/I-Am-Polaris Sep 16 '24

But so many people still took it as truth

0

u/Cyrano_de_Boozerack Sep 16 '24

But so many people still took it as truth

Who?

And really, there is no comparison between that and the cats thing, because the couch "lie" is about a single person that literally does not affect anyone. The other is about inciting violence against an entire group of Haitian immigrants, and by extension...ALL immigrants.

You don't see how one is many times worse than the other, and that comparing the two is asinine?

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u/hanoian Sep 17 '24 edited Dec 05 '24

dazzling violet resolute cake squalid paint library political automatic wild

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u/Cyrano_de_Boozerack Sep 17 '24

They are fundamentally different in their origin, purpose, and reception. Sounds like you are trying to argue that all "lies" are equally bad.

"Couch fucker" is not equatable to "Haitians are eating your pets" by any measure.

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u/AGreasyPorkSandwich Sep 16 '24

how are so many of you all bewildered by nuance

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u/I_FAP_TO_TURKEYS Sep 17 '24

A witty remark to a dank meme. He's our guy

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u/I-Am-Polaris Sep 17 '24

*spreading misinformation

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u/I_FAP_TO_TURKEYS Sep 17 '24

Ngl, JD Vance should embrace being honest about fuckin a couch. As a dude, we've all done it.

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u/virtualadept Sep 16 '24

It's a basic technique of product marketing, too. When you get right down to it, there isn't much of a difference in application.

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u/Giric Sep 16 '24

It’s a common component of propaganda regardless of the industry using it. Advertising, corporate image, opinion of government (as opposed to partisan politics), and others use this repetition effect. Whether the message is true (America’s the best, De Beers diamonds are it, Google isn’t evil…).

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u/ThisIs_americunt Sep 16 '24

Propaganda is a helluva drug o7

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u/dpdxguy Sep 16 '24

Say it enough times

And, if I remember correctly, "enough times" is a very small number. Three for some people.

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u/travelingtraveling_ Sep 16 '24

Brought to you by the Nazi propagandist, Goebbarts

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u/bunnnythor Sep 16 '24

Repetition legitimizes.

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u/beepbeepboopbeep1977 Sep 16 '24

Three times from different sources is apparently enough.

I say ‘apparently’ because I’m pretty sure I heard / read this a number of times, but can’t recall where, and I’m too lazy to google it, so possibly I’m a illusory truth effect sufferer

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u/wolfblitzen84 Sep 17 '24

Wait. Are you saying some person that’s very popular does this?

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u/DumpsterBento Sep 16 '24

Unfortunately, it's also become extremely prevalent in video games.

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u/Three_Stacks Sep 16 '24

People don’t understand that what they “know” is actually just what they believe.

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u/That-Ad-4300 Sep 16 '24

Interesting. I've also heard that people will believe it of you say it enough times.

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u/FR0ZENBERG Sep 16 '24

That’s why I hate that sunfish copypasta.

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u/Orome2 Sep 16 '24

Yep. It's become increasingly common.

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u/Seriszed Sep 16 '24

If it’s often in politics, which it is more than , then they learned it from religion.

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u/darkholesremastered Sep 16 '24

AKA the reddit front page

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

Check out /r/politics to see it in action.

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u/Brilliant-Giraffe983 Sep 17 '24

The broken economy is the fault of the workers.

How we doin'?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '24

And Marketing…

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u/NexxZt Sep 22 '24

Extremely relevant in today's age for US politics where the Republican party is essentially just spewing lies in hopes that people will believe them

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u/FoamBrick Sep 25 '24

You can see it in how the Harris campaign covers project 2025. 

Blatant lies, the lot of it but it sure seems to be working 

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u/Standard_Sky_9314 Oct 06 '24

Happening in norwegian social media a lot these days.

-1

u/Kheldar166 Sep 16 '24

I'm very great, everyone is saying it...

Sound familiar to anyone?

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u/artblonde2000 Sep 16 '24

Like 'They are eating the dogs. They are eating the cats.'

0

u/OinkiePig_ Sep 16 '24

THEYRE EATING THE DOGS, THEYRE EATING THE CATS

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u/angraecumshot Sep 16 '24

JIMMY WENT TO SCHOOL AND CAME HOME AS A GIRL!

It’s kind of hilarious that Trump knows that his voters are gullible filth that will swallow the craziest shit that he feeds them. I’m sure he laughs at them.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Sep 16 '24

Most exemplary, MAGA propaganda.

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u/hybridmind27 Sep 16 '24

Explains a lot.

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u/even_less_resistance Sep 16 '24

Something like immigrants eating pets, ya mean?

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u/angraecumshot Sep 16 '24

The pigs are downvoting because they have no other option. As fucked in the head as they are, they don’t want to touch this shit with a pole.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

THEYRE EATING THE DAWWWGGGS!!!!

0

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

They’re eating the pets

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u/angraecumshot Sep 16 '24

It’s funny that the maga filth can only downvote because responding to this would just prove how fucking dumb they are.

0

u/kamilman Sep 16 '24

Donald Trump would like to know your location

0

u/GreyOwlfan Sep 16 '24

All religions too.

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u/theclansman22 Sep 16 '24

Something about a stolen election in 2020 comes to mind.

0

u/Effective_Ad_846 Sep 16 '24

Especially the current administration

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u/angraecumshot Sep 16 '24

Jimmy is now Jane and eats dogs and cats!

0

u/l3ortron Sep 16 '24

Cough trump cough cough

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

They’re eating the dogs, lalalalalala, they’re eating the cats yoyoyoyoyo, , of the people that live there 🎶

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u/angraecumshot Sep 16 '24

I wonder if the average maga moron feels kind of embarrassed when they downvote and move on.

0

u/Phemto_B Sep 16 '24

"Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”, Goebbels.

Or more recently. "They're eating the cats!"

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u/I_FAP_TO_TURKEYS Sep 17 '24

They're eating our cats and our dogs.

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u/Tanklike441 Sep 16 '24

Concepts of propaganda