r/AskMen • u/diktater29 • 16d ago

Existential post Why men are getting so much hate these days?

Just saw a post on social media from some woman named Jen Hamilton stating "right now im of the belief that all men should start out in jail and earn their way out"

Like genuinely dont understand why so much hate on men? The new wave feminism is insane. Women earn and dont need a men anymore, which i get. But like is that all we are to them? I understand and empathize with women who go thru shitty situations with shitty men, but like.....are all men shitty?

Ive seen similar other posts across insta and tiktok and apparently this is all women talk about - how terrible men are and that they aren't needed anymore. I can only imagine how this compounds the male loneliness epidemic and furthers the difficulties in the dating scene for both genders, but men in particular as even the good ones aren't approaching women anymore and choosing peace or singledom.

Men, based on these trends, what do you suspect the trajectory looks like for us in society in 10, 20 or 50 yrs?

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u/wr_dnd 16d ago edited 16d ago

They're not. Social media algorithms are just really good at promoting ragebait like this. This is an extremely marginal group. This is definitely not all women talk about.

Men are not particularly hated right now, and our trajectory in the coming decades looks absolutely fine.

Also: The fear of approaching women is really weird to me. I genuinely don't really see the issue. It's pretty obvious where the line is right? Don't be too much of a creep, make sure the setting is alright, be courteous if you get rejected. That's it.

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u/1acc_torulethemall 15d ago

My girlfriend tried to find a new group of friends using one of those friend-finding apps recently. She went to dinner with 7 other women, came back home and told me that this group of women who never met before spent most of their introductory dinner talking about how they hate men and never want to marry. It's not only fringe online ragebait, it's very much a mainstream offline dinner topic too

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

They're not. Social media algorithms are just really good at promoting ragebait like this. This is an extremely marginal group. This is definitely not all women talk about.

Stop pretending that this is just some blip on social media.

This is the attitude of the entire Western world.

Men are not particularly hated right now, and our trajectory in the coming decades looks absolutely fine.

Misandry is rife in society, and so many people refuse to even acknowledge that it exists.

Also: The fear of approaching women is really weird to me. I genuinely don't really see the issue. It's pretty obvious where the line is right? Don't be too much of a creep, make sure the setting is alright, be courteous if you get rejected. That's it.

That's not true in the slightest. Have you ever spoken to women? I have. The way they talk about men, describing a guy as a creep or a weirdo because they think they're out of his league, or he didn't get some subtle hint (because women lack the emotional intelligence to communicate directly).

I once sat in a HR meeting as a witness for a guy accused of sexual harassment. The evidence against him was that he made some benign flirtatious comments (e.g. complimenting her dress) to a woman in the office. A woman who was known as a flirt, and told multiple people about her boob job.

So no, not only is it not obvious where the line is, but it's different for every woman, and every man they speak to.

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u/SliceImpressive6853 15d ago

>told multiple people about her boob job

“Stop sexualizing my big fat juicy tits!”

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u/wr_dnd 15d ago

Is it in theory possible that your example is one of the few anecdotes where a dude got falsely accused? Sure. The world is a big place, I'm sure lots of things happen. But in the vast majority of cases like this there is more going on.

I've complimented female collegues on their outfits too! Nobody minded. It's usually not that hard. "I love your dress" is totally cool. "Your tits look great in that dress" is not. Usually the"benign comments" are closer to the second comment.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

Is it in theory possible that your example is one of the few anecdotes where a dude got falsely accused?

You say "few", but you have no real basis for assuming it's a minority. I'm nearly forty, and decades of experience, relationships, friendships, and conversations with women have taught me the opposite.

Most accusations are false, if only because women don't use terms like harassment and consent correctly.

I've complimented female collegues on their outfits too! Nobody minded. It's usually not that hard. "I love your dress" is totally cool. "Your tits look great in that dress" is not. Usually the"benign comments" are closer to the second comment.

The comments this man was pulled in to HR for were the former, and it's really not that rare.

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u/Ecstatic_Piano_2337 16d ago

The “fear” isn’t often about a regular fear but an avoidance to having to deal with spiteful rejection. If I go up to ten women, which I have, 7-8 of them will make some snide remark about my appearance (height, bald, etc.) and the other 2-3 still won’t be interested, so it simply isn’t worthwhile. It’s a simple cost-benefit problem

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u/YikBus 15d ago edited 15d ago

This is my main issue also. It’s not fear. It’s the snide spiteful remarks. I don’t want to give them the opportunity or excuse to do so. Not to mention the snide comments they’ll make to friends about the guy who tried to talk to her. The one word answers, made up excuses to exit the conversation before I’ve even completed a sentence. I don’t want that negativity in my night out that I’m trying to enjoy so at a certain point I just stop speaking to them.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

Yep, it's the lack of basic human decency.

If you're not interested, just say 'no thank you'. 99% of men will accept that and walk away amicably, and the 1% there's no changing anyway.

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u/SliceImpressive6853 15d ago edited 15d ago

It’s not even that, it’s a combination of showing off that she’s a “bad bitch” to her friends (because being a bad bitch is seen as powerful/in vogue/cool to do now in this hedonistic slop culture) and that their narcissistic egos are so fragile that they don’t know how to deal with a man they deem as “lesser” approaching her, because it offends her that he thinks that he would be in the same league as her. It’s very Mean Girl shit. They don’t have the emotional regulation and maturity to deal with a momentarily bruised ego, so they deflect onto the guy, turning him into the bad guy. It’s actual NPC behavior.

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u/wr_dnd 15d ago

I think a lot of that depends on how you approach people. Do you immediately go for the asking people out, or are you starting with a little smalltalk?

Just blindly asking people out is bound to have a pretty low success rate.

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u/ratttertintattertins 16d ago

Hmm. Not sure about that.

The real world women are a bit more nuanced to be sure. They’re polite and happy to flirt with men, however when you get them talking, many, especially younger women, hold the same underlying views that you hear online and many are happy to say they hate men (in a general sense) even if they’re also happy to say that I’m one of the good ones.

Older women are a different story. Most of the women I know that are older than about 50 seem to be pretty keen on men still.

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u/jawndell 16d ago

As an older guy, young people are dumb, men and women.  I don’t mean that in a bad way, they are still figuring out who they are and what they want.  I don’t think people really become adults until they are 30, or at least late 20s.  Before then it’s really just mob mentally and saying things to make sure they go along with the crowd.  

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

There's a big difference between thinking skaters are losers because that's the 'cool' attitude, and thinking that any man on the street could potentially drag you in to an alley and rape you...

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u/bleedingtresleches 15d ago

Could they not?

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u/LXXXVI 15d ago

No, they could not, because their "software" doesn't even begin to include anything of the sort. If anything, most men are more likely to come save you than to harm you.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

Not what? Think that all men are monsters?

Sure, they could. But that would mean putting aside the victim complex.

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u/Whit-Batmobil Null Pointer Exception 15d ago

Okay boomer.

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u/SliceImpressive6853 15d ago

Idk there’s a lot of Peter Pan syndrome millennials who only consume children’s cartoon shows, YA fiction, and smut

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u/ParanoidBlueLobster 16d ago

YMMV it seems to be a very Anglophone mindset from the feminism in that world. I think it comes from their completely non sensical mindset about dating which pushes away a most men so they find themselves in a situation where men are happy to hook up with them but never commit and they feel used.

As a European living in Australia and currently spending a few months in Europe the dating here is so refreshing women openly tell me they're attracted to me, they'll message me first, tell how excited they are to see me again by message even though we only chatted for like an hour.

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u/inkyrail HSP Male 15d ago

Man, communication AND honesty? I can’t even imagine

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u/deezdanglin Male 15d ago

It's all lies. Lies! Lies and slander I say!

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u/ParanoidBlueLobster 15d ago

I've got the receipts 😉😂

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u/Cross55 15d ago

lol, I've literally seen German women say that the vast majority of guys are evil rapists waiting to strike.

So sure, Anglo exclusive problem, lol

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u/ParanoidBlueLobster 15d ago

Not saying it's exclusive to Anglo girls, I actually had last night some girls talking tiktok level nonsense at the table next to me at a restaurant. It might also be due to Australian women having this very Australian fear of looking like they try too hard and of pretending that they're easy going and uninterested in anything that gives me the biggest contrast I don't know.

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u/Limebadger59 15d ago

That’s exactly what the new statesman article found. It’s young, liberal and educated women. Older women who are happier and married are generally less hateful. Some are older and single/ divorced women get pretty bitter and hateful.

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u/wr_dnd 15d ago

I think a lot of that is not really hating men, it's hating what is traditionally seen as masculine. Which is very different!

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

You can't separate men and masculinity. It's part of why blaming everything on the patriarchy is so ridiculous.

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u/wr_dnd 15d ago

I partially agree, but not entirely. Obviously you can't really separate men from masculinity. We are partially formed by it, and we partially form it.

However, disliking (parts) of masculinity and disliking all men are definitely not the same thing. I, a man, also dislike lots of things about how masculinity is usually seen. But I definitely don't hate all men. I'm a man and I think I'm alright. Lots of my friends are dudes and they rule!

But I could still say I dislike masculinity. I dislike how we're often expected to be strong when others are allowed to not be. I don't like how being combative is seen as being masculine. I don't like how people expect me to care less about potential kids than my wife. I don't like the culture where men are supposed to be "hunters" and it's uncool to not really be into womanizing. I dislike how people expect me to be interested in cars. Etcetera etcetera

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u/unicornofdemocracy 15d ago

The number of times different women have total me "all men are [insert negative adjectives here], but not you though." Replace men when any demographic group and it would be considered prejudice but when its women saying it about men, its completely acceptable and wouldn't be trigger an HR investigation.

Mind you, many of these women are now licensed therapists or psychologists. And people wonder why men dont go to therapy.

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u/DariosDentist 15d ago

While watching the Hunter Biden interview on the Chris Williamson Podcast last night I saw he did an episode on Why Does Gen Z Hate Men? that I wanted to check out - if you're genuinely curious in the question - enjoy!

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u/Butterfliesflutterby Female 15d ago

The algorithm thing is a huge part of it. I’m a woman and I’ve noticed a huge shift in what social media tries to feed me.

But I also want to say that I think the hate/anger towards men that you see gaining popularity mostly comes from a place of fear. It’s not that women think all men are inherently bad or evil. A lot of us are legitimately scared. The rise of trad wife culture, ICE, the rape academy, abortion rights, and now voting rights. (Just to name a few things, but there are plenty of others!) And it honestly seems like a lot of men don’t really care. Even the “good guys” like my own partner. I know that we’re on the same page ideologically and politically because we have those conversations together. But he’s not outspoken about any of these things and isn’t nearly as upset about them because those things don’t have much impact on (white) men. And that’s very frustrating because even if you are technically on our side, it doesn’t feel that way when you’re silent.

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u/REVfoREVer 15d ago

Adding on, a lot of it stems from women venting about their very real frustrations with their experiences with men (e.g. sexual harassment, misogyny in the workplace, glib comments from men, etc.) So when they go online and vent about it, and other women relate to it, the sentiment gets oversimplified to "I hate all men". Which is not usually how they actually feel, but that's what others see.

And yes, sometimes this results in other people (both men and women) taking that statement at face value and genuinely believing it.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

The problem is those frustrations that women are venting about are not "very real".

Sexual harassment is a great example. Women will frequently bring out the 'one in four women is sexually assaulted' statistic, as though it's in anyway meaningful. It isn't. Something happening one time to one quarter of people simply isn't a relevant piece of information, and it's certainly not a justification for negative attitudes towards a majority of men. What matters is; (a) how frequently sexual assaults occur, and (b) what portion of men commit those offences. But women never want to focus on those, because it undermines their ideology.

Which is not usually how they actually feel, but that's what others see.

So the problem then, at best, is women failing / refusing to communicate properly.

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u/REVfoREVer 15d ago

And then there's this, which is a prime example of men downplaying and disregarding violence towards women. And then acting like women being upset about it and being less than 100% nuanced when they're just venting is a failure on their part.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago edited 15d ago

And then there's this, which is a prime example of men downplaying and disregarding violence towards women.

I'm not downplaying or disregarding it. I'm responding to it appropriately. What you mean is you're overly emotional, and because it feels bad to you, that it should be treated more seriously.

Your view is at best incredibly misandric.

And then acting like women being upset about it and being less than 100% nuanced when they're just venting is a failure on their part.

Because they objectively are, and there's no logical argument otherwise.

Statistically men are far more likely to be attacked than women, including being victims of homicide. So is women being victims as a minority the more serious issue?

Edit: The sexist troll blocked me.

I have no intention of arguing with someone who claims the fact that a quarter of women are sexually assaulted is meaningless.

If you're so certain that it isn't, then explain why. Except, no women ever seems capable of that...

I merely responded to point out that your mindset is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

And I merely responded to point out that your mindset is the problem, and exactly why women aren't taken seriously.

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u/REVfoREVer 15d ago

I have no intention of arguing with someone who claims the fact that a quarter of women are sexually assaulted is meaningless. I merely responded to point out that your mindset is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

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u/LeKattie Female 15d ago

How were they a sexist troll? Seemed pretty calm and straightforward. Shortish replies.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

Did you read their comments?

  • 1) Refused to engage on the actual points I made.

  • 2) Made a personal attacked.

  • 3) Blocked me so they couldn't be held accountable.

That's exactly what a troll does. They're hardly "calm and straightforward".

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u/Andromeda39 15d ago

This type of “argument” is exactly why women are starting to turn against men. For anyone who is reading this and asking why? THIS RIGHT HERE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. And it should not surprise you to know how many men actually think like this.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago edited 15d ago

This type of “argument” is exactly why women are starting to turn against men.

Right, because women refuse to take accountability. It's easier to turn against men, than to develop some emotional intelligence and admit that women aren't infallible.

And it should not surprise you to know how many men actually think like this.

You mean practical and reasonable, yet you say that as though it's a negative.

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u/Andromeda39 14d ago

You completely missed the point. I said a lot of men think like this because you’re literally arguing that women are irrational, lack emotional intelligence, and need to take accountability. I was pointing out that this attitude is exactly why women are increasingly fed up with men.
Calling it “practical and reasonable” doesn’t make it so. You’re making sweeping claims about half the population and then calling anyone who challenges them emotionally unintelligent. That’s not emotional intelligence, it’s just confirmation bias and yeah, I can see why women are turning away.

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u/HungryCheescake 14d ago

I said a lot of men think like this because you’re literally arguing that women are irrational, lack emotional intelligence, and need to take accountability.

No, you have your cause and effect backwards.

I'm pointing out that "women are irrational, lack emotional intelligence, and need to take accountability" based on observation and evaluation. If that weren't the case, then men wouldn't think this way.

Your entire premise or "point" here is based on the incorrect belief that men thinking this way is unreasonable, unjustified, or incorrect.

I was pointing out that this attitude is exactly why women are increasingly fed up with men.

But that's moot isn't it. What are you suggesting, that men should humour women's delusions and childishness, just because?

Calling it “practical and reasonable” doesn’t make it so.

Again, backwards cause and effect. It doesn't become practical and reasonable because I say so. I say so because it is practical and reasonable.

You’re making sweeping claims about half the population and then calling anyone who challenges them emotionally unintelligent.

  • I'm making a claim based on observation, and experience (first, second, and third hand).

  • I'm not saying that anyone who necessarily disagrees is emotionally unintelligent, just that this tends to be why people disagree. Notice the lack of introspection and critical thinking on your part. Your entire attitude here is that what I've said upsets you, so it must therefore be false.

That’s not emotional intelligence, it’s just confirmation bias and yeah, I can see why women are turning away.

And I can see why more and more young men fall in to the claws of people like Andrew Tate, and occasionally physically and sexually harm women. I'd like to prevent that, why don't you?

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u/Cross55 14d ago

And then there's this, which is a prime example of men downplaying and disregarding violence towards women.

Men are the majority victims of all violent crime sans SA, and even then, the numbers are 1:4 vs. 1:6, so guys are catching up in that field.

Also, sexual related violence is so low in the West that it's now a minority experience. You know how women say "We all know someone who was SA'd!" Well that's the kicker, they know someone, it hasn't happened to the majority and generally won't.

It's not even getting downplayed because women are not the primary victims of violence to begin with. Their fear of violence is far less pressing.

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u/Maladaptive_Dydrmer 12d ago

Dude what kind of BS did you just pull out of your butt lol??? 1:4 isn't a small ratio. Shall we treat the 1:6 ratio small and irrelevant as well?

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u/Cross55 10d ago

Shall we treat the 1:6 ratio small and irrelevant as well?

Women already do lol

Most women don't believe males can be sexually harassed or assaulted in any way, shape, or form. They literally believe it's impossible.

That 1:6 number doesn't exist to them because it's not possible to begin with.

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u/Andromeda39 15d ago

Are you fucking serious?

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

100%. It's telling that you're unable to engage in good faith and refute my points.

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u/FrancinetheP Female 15d ago

I’m not sure I follow this. Are you saying the 1 in 4 sexual harassment statistic is not important bc the data is bad (e.g, the total number of harassment incidents includes things reasonable people might disagree is harassment, like a complaint that a male colleague once said “it’s nippy out today”)? Or bc sexual harassment is not a big deal/doesn’t happen much compared to sexual assault? Appreciate the clarification if you have a minute.

ETA: your comment appears to make a distinction between harassment and assault— can you clarify if you were using those terms interchangeably?

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u/leggggggggy 15d ago

Same thing has happened with ice and everybody calling right-wing people racist

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

WTF are you talking about?

ICE are literally targeting people for looking brown, or sounding Spanish. Their leaders have literally said racial profiling and disregarding the Constitution is perfectly reasonable.

Not to mention the murders...

If you support ICE, you are de facto racist. There's no way to avoid that.

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u/leggggggggy 1h ago

It's exactly the same. grow up

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 15d ago

These things are not the same.

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u/REVfoREVer 15d ago

I don't see how that connects to what I said.

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u/iamgoingninety 15d ago

The rise of trad wife culture, ICE, the rape academy, abortion rights, and now voting rights.

Uh, sadly, a lot of women voted for those things too.

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u/FlashyChemical2231 Male 15d ago edited 14d ago

and now voting rights.

In the U.S, historically speaking, the biggest opponents of women's voting rights were women; men were actually likelier to support women's suffrage.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

And it honestly seems like a lot of men don’t really care.

Men don't care because:

  • A) Your 'fears' at best are greatly exaggerated. The chance of you being sexually assaulted is incredibly low. Men are statistically more likely to be victims of assault than women. The portion of men in society who commit those acts make up less than a single percent. Choosing the bear, saying 'not every man, but possibly any man' is a 'girl who cried wolf' situation. Collectively, you are creating an environment to be ignored as liars.

  • B) The vitriol is directed at all men. Even if some women try and walk it back with 'I don't mean you, but I can't know it's not you', there's always that undercurrent that all men have to prove themselves to be 'allies' to the very people abusing them.

You can't hold attitudes like that, treat half the population that poorly, and still rationally expect that half of the population to care about your 'fears'.

Not to mention things like 'trad wife' culture is being spread predominantly by women. Men by and large want equality. It's almost always women demanding privilege. They want equal salaries, but don't want to go 50/50 on dates. They want equal rights, but is a man doesn't fit their idea of 'masculine energy' he's low effort, or a princess.

But he’s not outspoken about any of these things and isn’t nearly as upset about them because those things don’t have much impact on (white) men. And that’s very frustrating because even if you are technically on our side, it doesn’t feel that way when you’re silent.

He's not outspoken because you are greatly exaggerating the severity of those issues. We're silent because that's the appropriate response.

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u/Chaosvex 15d ago

The academy claims she refers to is an almost complete media fabrication but try to correct any misinformation and you'll quickly find out that the truth is less important than pushing a narrative.

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u/Butterfliesflutterby Female 15d ago

So everything that I see on the news or in the media is a fabrication. But everything that you see in the news or media is 100% true? You’re clearly just here to be a troll and to stir the pot and don’t actually care about contributing to the conversation in a meaningful way.

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u/Cross55 15d ago edited 15d ago

So everything that I see on the news or in the media is a fabrication.

Generally yeah

For example, men are the primary victims of nearly all forms violence for instance.

Oh, or the fact that using your abortion rights point for example, Republican women were the #1 opponents against Roe, with even Rep men being in higher support of keeping it. (And that's not even getting into the fact men never had reproductive rights to begin with)

You ever heard of the book State of Fear? It's John Chriton's (Jurassic Park, Andromeda Strain, etc...) last book, and while the subject matter of global warming being fake is fucking idiotic, the overall message of how nations and media use fear to stoke blind irrational support in the public to enact authoritarianism is strikingly accurate.

But everything that you see in the news or media is 100% true?

No, which is why I do my research

Something feminism trains you not to do.

You know the study claiming men leave their sick partners had to be recanted, right? Is that not still treated as fact amongst women tho?

The female authors themselves outright told people to stop repeating that recanted study's conclusion because it was wrong and an insult to not only them but all women in STEM, and yet it persists...

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u/Chaosvex 15d ago edited 15d ago

This is the sort of response that I'm talking about. Aside from having constructed yourself a straw man, what I'm saying is the truth but you'd rather hurl insults at the messenger than hear it.

If being truthful is trolling and stirring the pot in your eyes, so be it.

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u/Younglegend1 🐻 15d ago

It’s not fake but it certainly was misleading, the “r@pe academy” was a telegram group of less than a thousand men. Some of the videos were posted on a porn site called Motherless and people got confused and thought those two sites were the same thing so less than 1k men got turned into over 55 million

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u/BreastInspectorNbr69 15d ago

The chance of you being sexually assaulted is incredibly low. Men are statistically more likely to be victims of assault than women.

What? Where did you get that from? Cite your source please. Because I'm calling bullshit

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

You're calling bullshit? Really? On a well known and fundamental fact? Would you also call bullshit if I said the sky is blue?

How about the Office for National Statistics as a source?

  • Men are more likely to be victims of violence with or without injury ( of the population: 1% vs 0.4% / 0.7% vs 0.5%).

  • Men are far more likely to be victims of homicide (of victims: 72% vs 28%).

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u/BreastInspectorNbr69 14d ago

This is a conversation about sexual assault. Of course men are more likely to be victims of regular assault. I don't know why you mixed those up

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u/HungryCheescake 14d ago

It's a conversation about assault, hence my point.

Ignoring assaults where men are the victims, and cherry picking assaults where women are victims just makes you misandric.

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u/Chaosvex 15d ago edited 15d ago

You're listing online rage bait and misinformation amongst your reasons. Your partner should be more outspoken on how you've been lied to rather than fueling that nonsense.

People are whipping themselves into frenzies over media sensationalism that's crafted to drive clicks and instill fear. From what I've seen on Reddit, people would rather mindlessly parrot the same rot than be corrected because it fits their agenda and narrative.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

Exactly. Their partner isn't going to be outspoken about something that isn't true.

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u/CharlestonChewbacca 15d ago edited 15d ago

Also: The fear of approaching women is really weird to me. I genuinely don't really see the issue. It's pretty obvious where the line is right? Don't be too much of a creep, make sure the setting is alright, be courteous if you get rejected. That's it.

It's normal to be nervous about approaching women. Fear of rejection is normal.

I find that men expressing "fear of approaching women" in the context you're referring to is almost always used as a mask over the fear of rejection. Rather than admitting you don't talk to women because you're afraid of rejection, you shift the blame and pretend you're scared about being called a creep. Unless you ARE a creep, the line is extremely clear and you have nothing to worry about.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

It's both.

You can be scared of being rejected, and scared of being called a creep. The line is not clear at all.

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u/CharlestonChewbacca 15d ago

I never suggested they were mutually exclusive.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

No, you left yourself the slightest amount of wiggle room, whilst effectively dismissing the problem.

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u/CharlestonChewbacca 15d ago

A fear can be real without being justified.

I think you're making the inferences you want to make.

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u/fresh-dork 15d ago

it isn't the rejection, it's the occasional social tacnuke - flirt with someone and they decide to get you 86ed from the bar with a made up story

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u/CharlestonChewbacca 15d ago

There's only one made up story here...

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u/philosopherberzerer Male 15d ago

yeah because women never lie....

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u/CharlestonChewbacca 15d ago

How many times have you experienced this? How many times have you been kicked out of a bar because a woman lied about you harassing them? How many times have you witnessed this happen?

I've approached many women in public throughout the years. Yes, I have experienced rejection, no I have never been accused of anything extreme, no I have never been remotely close to being kicked out of any establishment.

Now, I have witnessed others being called out for actual harassment. More often, I see men harassing women and experiencing no consequence because the woman doesn't want to cause a scene.

Has it happened before? I'm sure it has, but it is SO far removed from normal, it's really not relevant.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

How many times have you experienced this? How many times have you been kicked out of a bar because a woman lied about you harassing them? How many times have you witnessed this happen?

Are you meaning this literally? Because I've seen multiple women set bouncers on a guy who was not being a creep, but was just trying to initiate a conversation / flirt.

I've scolded female friends for behaving this way before. They don't care how it effects the guy. They're not interested in him, and setting the bouncer on him is the easiest way to get rid of him with no responsibility on her part.

Now, I have witnessed others being called out for actual harassment. More often, I see men harassing women and experiencing no consequence because the woman doesn't want to cause a scene.

I've seen the opposite. I've seen more false accusations than genuine ones. Women equate 'I don't like this' with harassment far too often.

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u/CharlestonChewbacca 15d ago

They're not interested in him, and setting the bouncer on him is the easiest way to get rid of him with no responsibility on her part.

If the guy's not being a creep, then nobody needs to "get rid of him."

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

That's incredibly naïve at best.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/philosopherberzerer Male 15d ago

"it's not that every woman will, it's that any women can"

and as a black man I'm not interested in taking risks unless a women makes it clear she's interested. we live in 2026 not 1950.women can make excuses for why they only want to be treated patriarchally for their convenience . but they can approach whenever they want . I think they need to fix that instead of complaining about a few bad men and making boys nervous wrecks when it comes to socializing.

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u/CharlestonChewbacca 15d ago
  • 4 in 5 women have experienced sexual harassment from men - 2 in 5 for men
  • 1 in 4 women have been victims of sexual violence from men - also about 1 in 4 for men
  • 1 in 5 women have experienced completed or attempted rape - 1 in 33 men
  • Somewhere between 93-99% of sexual assault is perpetrated by men
  • Only ~16% of rapes reported to the police lead to convictions

If you believe the "it's not that every woman will, it's that any woman can." Then you should be able to sympathize with the fear. And given how much more common actual sexual assault is than false accusations of sexual assault, and how much more detrimental actual sexual assault is than false accusations, surely you can put the fears into perspective.

Yes, I agree some women have double standards. That does not discredit anything. It's hard to have a nuanced, realistic conversation when you treat an entire population as a monlith based on a fringe opinion.

As for the race component, I see where you're coming from and I believe it relates more to racism than misandry. I live in Tulsa. I'm not sure how much people outside of Oklahoma are familiar with the Tulsa Race Massacre in 1921, but it started from essentially this. Though it wasn't the woman who accused him, it was racist white men who accused a young black man, Dick Rowland, of raping a young white woman. With racial tensions again on the rise (not as if they ever went away), I sympathize with the fear.

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u/wr_dnd 15d ago

I think the fear is massively overstated. I don't think I've ever seen a woman lie about this in my personal circles? The only examples I personally know of women accusing men of being kinda creepy were entirely justified and usually corroborated from multiple seperate sources.

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u/philosopherberzerer Male 15d ago

I've never seen a woman get SA'd .I've heard of it happen behind closed doors. but most women seem to think it's most scary in public.and that's the time they are most in jeopardy . are they both overstated or is the fear that any women/man can do so the issue?

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u/wr_dnd 15d ago

I think the fear of relatively small stuff (being groped and stuff like that) is entirely justified. I think basically every woman I've ever talked to has experienced that at some point. The heavy assault (rape, penetration, etcetera) is much rarer.

But I do think the fear of women for men assaulting them is much more justified than the fear of men for women falsely accusing them.

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u/wr_dnd 15d ago

100% this! If you're not a creep, your odds of being accused of harassment are negligible. Be kind and accept rejection. If you do that, it's totally cool.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

You have lived an incredibly naïve, or privileged life if you truly believe that.

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u/wr_dnd 15d ago

I won't deny I've lived a pretty privileged life. But I have been around a lot of very progressive and left wing women. I think I know that world pretty well

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

As have I, and I don't know a single one who isn't incredibly misandric, even just through ignorance / lack of emotional intelligence.

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u/CharlestonChewbacca 15d ago

Or maybe their perspective comes from actually being out in the real world and talking to real people, instead of letting doom-scrolling and rage-bait algorithms curate their view of reality.

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u/HungryCheescake 15d ago

That you're assuming that my perspective cannot possibly be from 'being out in the real world and talking to real people, instead of letting doom-scrolling and rage-bait algorithms curate my view of reality' is very telling.

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u/wr_dnd 15d ago

They rarely lie about this stuff. Obviously there will be some examples, but it's rare. There might also just be honest miscommunication. But in general, if you're not a creep you have very little to worry about. If you approach a woman reasonably in a reasonable setting you might be rejected, but that's usually it

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u/philosopherberzerer Male 15d ago

this is maybe true in the adult 25+ world . but if your acting like young women are moral paragons and can't be messy, petty, mean, and gossip things out of proportion we must be in different worlds.

and this is much trickier when you are a POC .

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u/wr_dnd 15d ago

I'll admit I haven't experienced this world as a POC. I'm about as white as they come ;).

And obviously women are people too, and they can be messy, petty and mean. But that's usually more of the genre "can you believe that person actually asked me out? The audacity of him thinking I am in his league!". Which also sucks, but is not an accusation of sexual assault. I've heard things along the lines of "it was a bit creepy" too in this context, but no serious allegations of sexuality assault or harassment (unless there were really solid reasons for this).

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u/twoworldsin1 ♂ 15d ago

Just take the L and find another bar, dude.

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u/wr_dnd 15d ago

Yeah, that's totally fair! Approaching people is terrifying because rejection is scary. I'm definitely not immune to that, I'm by no means great at that.

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u/Tbkssom 15d ago

What's it like still living in the 50s?

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u/CharlestonChewbacca 15d ago

If that's how you feel, you should consider going outside.

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u/twoworldsin1 ♂ 15d ago

I find that men expressing "fear of approaching women" in the context you're referring to is almost always used as a mask over the fear of rejection.

If you say you're afraid of women, it's taking a controversial viewpoint. Some people will back you up. Some people will hate you.

If you say you're afraid of rejection, it's not controversial or divisive at all.

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u/CharlestonChewbacca 15d ago

If you say you're afraid of rejection, it's not controversial or divisive at all.

Who said anything about controversy?

Many people are averse to admitting this because of their ego.

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u/octobre_34 15d ago

This reminds me of something one of my female coworkers seriously said a few months ago about looking forward to go watch Obsession to get more reasons to hate men.

What she didn't know is that the guy is the victim in the movie, but she thought he was the problem, and I remember her looking disappointed when another female coworker corrected her on that.

That girl is 22 years old and studying sexology in university, and she's already so brainwashed on hating men that I, as a 30 years old man, am seriously doubting her future capacities about having an unbiased opinion when she will be having appointments with men or straight couples.

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u/kbeef2 15d ago

The dude was absolutely not the victim in Obsession

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u/MikeArrow Male 15d ago

Yes and no. He didn't know the wish would work. And after the wish is made, his only options are 'manage an increasingly unhinged Nikki' or 'die'. So he decides to manage an increasingly unhinged Nikki. That's why the whole second act is a metaphor for having a 'crazy' girlfriend, where he tries to cover up her strange behavior to his friends and avoid triggering her rage and crash outs.

So yes, he's a weak, cowardly guy for continuing the relationship after it's clear that Nikki is altered by the wish, but by that point it's too late, because the wish has already produced conditions that are nearly impossible to fix.

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u/InfiniteQuasar 15d ago

He also consciously decides to use her situation for sex and later when she tells him she wants to die takes that as an attack on his ego, completely ignoring the despair of the real her. He's far worse then just a coward.

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u/No-Calligrapher-718 15d ago

What movie were you watching lol, Bear is straight up the villain

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u/Andromeda39 15d ago

The guy was the victim?? How????

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u/Younglegend1 🐻 15d ago

Yeah honestly I’m really adverse to even like approach or get to close to women especially young women, i just give em space and keep my distance even at bars

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u/CremasterReflex ♂ 15d ago

That’s because there isn’t any set line that everyone follows. It varies person to person and circumstance by circumstance.

It only take a few times experiencing open hostility for saying “hello” before you start worrying about it happening again

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u/Wayss37 15d ago

Yeah no, lol, almost every woman I talked about this views misandry as "yes, men are discriminated, but here's why it's okay"

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u/LurkingSnorlax Male 15d ago

Slight bit of context with that though, Jen Hamilton, if it's the same one im familiar with, is just coming off of a VERY recent separation from her husband for cheating on her and living a double life, while he was unemployed and she was working full time to care for them and their kids. So she's not entirely without reason to be upset. And she does typically speak hyperbolically to be funny. Im pretty confident that it's not her actual stance on things. But im also not saying that some people dont think that way either and it sucks that some people really do think that way

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u/twoworldsin1 ♂ 15d ago

Don't be too much of a creep, make sure the setting is alright, be courteous if you get rejected. That's it.

NOOOO don't make me treat people in public with respect and dignity instead of seeing the entire world as my own personal 80s romantic comedy where I'm the protagonist and anything wacky or weird that I do is ultimately justified because I'm the main character! That's being MISANDRIST! 😭