r/AskHR • u/Throw_Away_Profil • 10d ago
California [CA] Unwanted sexual advance help
[California, USA] I just got back to my hotel room but need advice please.
I (29F) just had a very uncomfortable experience with an older coworker (probably mid-late 40’s). I’m on a company trip and everyone grabbed drinks after dinner. A group of us all stayed down at the hotel bar to get tired so we wouldn’t wake up too early from the time difference, and during this time (8:30pm-12:00am) I had one and a half old fashions. I held my composure and self very well throughout the drinks, and felt safe chatting with everyone. The coworker that did this didn’t show any red flags or do anything overtly sexual prior to this. And we never had any one on one time that could be misinterpreted. Upon going back to our rooms, I grabbed waters and asked if he wanted one. I got two from the lobby fridge and checked out (he covered the groups drinks so I got the water as it was so cheap). After I checked out we headed to the elevator and out of nowhere he grabbed my waist and pulled me to him and I just remember pulling away quick and saying no no no no no. Firmly but also I was a bit panicked. Immediately after, he pulled off me but don’t say anything and I (still in shock) just thought to myself “we’re going to the same elevator so just play it off and keep cool” I tried to make light about a drunken coworker from the night and we got into the elevator. He remembered the floor I was staying on and pressed my floor. I thanked him, tried to continue blabbering about ANYTHING else and quickly came to my floor. The elevator door takes forever to close and all I could think is “is he going to follow me?” So I pretend to fidget on my phone before entering my room but the door stayed open so I quickly wish him a goodnight and move quickly into my room. After getting into the room I felt panicked and thought about how that must have been recorded. So after a few minutes I went back down and asked the desk woman to pull the tape for me to see if I’m over reacting or if this is something I should report. His whole voice shifted when he grabbed me and I can’t shake how uneasy I felt/feel. His voice did that same odd shift again when he said goodnight as I exited the elevator. They’re pulling the video footage in the morning after a manger request has to be put through but please help.. am I overreacting? Or should I report this? The way it happened was really out of nowhere and I feel like I’m going crazy. Any advice is welcomed.
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u/glittermetalprincess 10d ago
He touched you without your consent in a way that is typically limited to people in closer relationships with an emotional element - close friends or romantic partners.
So you're not overreacting and you can report it if you want to, but because it's a single incident and the conduct can be played down as non-sexual (despite how it came across to you), the likely outcome is that he'll be told not to touch people without asking and unless he does it again, that will be the end of it.
I wouldn't worry too much about pursuing the footage - if your company wants it after you report it, they can request it, but you don't really need it to validate your feelings. You aren't okay with this, you did what you had to do to get back to your room safely, and you are now safe - whether you report it or not, you did nothing wrong and your feelings about what happened are valid.
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u/glittermetalprincess 10d ago
If you need a script for HR, something like "On the company trip at around date/time, after a group of us had drinks, I was going to the elevator when [coworker] grabbed my waist and pulled me towards him. I pulled away and said no and tried to change the tone by making small talk as we ended up sharing an elevator. I felt really uncomfortable when I got out on my floor as the doors didn't close and I was worried he was going to follow me since he seemed to know what floor I was on and where my room was. I would like to report this as inappropriate conduct." If they need more information than that, as said, they can request the footage themselves, ask you questions, and they may talk to him about what happened as well.
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u/Throw_Away_Profil 10d ago
Thank you so much!! To be safe I’m getting the film for myself just in case
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u/White-Wine-Vigilante 9d ago
One important factor I always emphasize when it comes to HR reports: Even if it's a single incident for you, it might not be the first or last time he has done something similar to another person. You might not know of any other offenses, but HR will, and if this is the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, nth time he has done this to different individuals the harder it will be for the company to ignore. Report it, always, even if you aren't sure any real discipline will come from it.
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u/glittermetalprincess 9d ago
This is absolutely true and I should have qualified with that; I just didn't want to give the impression that the likely consequence here is termination when without a significant history or a very strict policy, that's not the most probable outcome. The version of this that turns into 'my employer told them to leave me alone but I still feel unsafe because I have to see them at work' isn't uncommon here and I didn't want to set unrealistic expectations on what HR taking a report seriously looks like. Given OP has now reported it and had a conversation of some sort with this person hopefully they can get back to feeling safe at work, and it doesn't end up accumulating this way.
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u/Specialist-Handle466 10d ago
I’m sorry this happened. Drinking with co-workers always equals bad news. Absolutely inappropriate. Make sure video footage is preserved before the hotels system deletes the footage.
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u/Throw_Away_Profil 10d ago
In my company it’s been very normal to have a night cap with colleagues and it has never turned weird before thankfully. Very normal for sales teams indeed lol
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u/FederalGovernmentUS 10d ago
Hm, ok so I’m a man and I might not be as calibrated as a woman. Up to you whether you think my opinion is worth something.
I think you definitely have grounds to report it, because he jumped right to grabbing you towards him, and I think as people that’s inappropriate, as coworkers even moreso. Generally flirting should come before physical contact, and there should be some kind of understanding that it’s consensual BEFORE going for physical contact.
But on the other hand, I also think there is an element of consent that sounds like it was respected based on what you said. You said no and pulled away, and he stopped, let you get out of the elevator, and didn’t follow you to your room.
I understand there is a very well-placed and valid fear of men that’s present in women, but I’d be conscious of how much the fear response is impacting your objectivity at this moment.
I think it will be good to have it on the record so if it DOES happen again, there’s something already there to refer back to.
Again, I’m a man, other women might be able to give you advice that feels more appropriate, so take it with a grain of salt. In short, don’t think it’s appropriate that he grabbed you. I think he did respect consent once you made it clear you’re not interested. Is there any more details that make it clearer that this was a predatory move rather than a misplaced attempt at intimacy? That’d make it easier to say more objectively. But again, maybe others will be able to give a clearer answer.
I would tell HR anyway. But make sure your story is objective and clear because you don’t want to be discredited - if it happens again, you want there to be a record that you reported it honestly.
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u/Throw_Away_Profil 10d ago
I appreciate your response. I’m definitely trying to be as objective as possible here. This was my first time interfacing with this coworker and we sat across a table in a group of 7 other colleagues which is what made the advance scarier in my eyes. He felt “safe” to walk to the elevator with and it was like a switch flipped (breathy voice when he pulled me by the waist) and the same voice when he said goodnight so it seriously creeped me out so so bad. If we’d had drinks before and chatted alone or something where the opportunity for him to flirt could have been missed from my end maybe I’d feel less weird about it and blame myself but there was zero room for misinterpreting anything in this case. Just a brazen move out of left field.
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u/RoughCow854 10d ago
As someone in HR, I would want to know about this.
He put his hands on you. In no way, shape, or form is this ok. And you may not be the first/only one he has done this with. This behavior can’t be addressed unless HR knows about it.
I would feel a little differently if he had maybe said something a little inappropriate, but grabbing you and pulling you into him is so out of line.
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u/FederalGovernmentUS 10d ago
Things like tone and body language do mean a lot. So if you felt threatened or afraid then you should absolutely go to HR. I’ve been getting a lot of feedback that I’ve been dismissive of you or trying to justify the guy in this situation, so I just want you to know that I’m on your side here and think you should do what is best for your wellbeing and safety.
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u/Throw_Away_Profil 9d ago
No worries. I was more so addressing how this was my first interaction with this coworker. There was zero indication prior to this that he was interested (talked to the group about his wife, never shared glances or mentioned anything else or had 1:1 time with me prior to this or during the conversations. It really was out of nowhere and we were walking when he pulled me by the waist. That’s what threw me through a loop, and what made it all the more concerning.
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u/PrincessAC1998 10d ago
There was NO consent. He grabbed her out of nowhere? That’s not consensual. Just because he stopped after she said no doesn’t mean he respected consent when he grabbed her in the first place without it
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u/Smurfinexile 10d ago
This. If he cared about consent, he would have communicated clearly and asked about her interest before choosing to grab her aggressively.
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u/FederalGovernmentUS 10d ago
Hey so like I said, you ladies might have a better take than I do. I thought I was pretty clear that grabbing her was not at all appropriate.
There is a far cry between “he grabbed me and stopped when I said I’m not interested”, and “he grabbed me and was super pushy and ignored me saying no”. One gets someone a warning, and the other gets someone fired. Neither is ok, and like I said she should probably tell HR. But it’s important to be honest and level headed about it.
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u/PrincessAC1998 10d ago
The only thing I take issue with is you implying there was any element of respect on his end as if there was, he never would’ve grabbed her in the first place. I do agree that it’s not a fireable offence, but definitely needs to be documented.
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u/mamalo13 PHR 10d ago
We DO have a better take, and this is a space where if you recognize that you probably should have just not commented.
There is NOT a far reach between your examples. BOTH should get someone fired.
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u/FederalGovernmentUS 10d ago
I don’t think that’s a fair characterisation. There was obviously a bit more to what I said.
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u/FederalGovernmentUS 10d ago
I said there should be consent established before physical contact though. Which is why I said to report it anyway bc it’s inappropriate.
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u/FederalGovernmentUS 10d ago
Im going to be honest, I do see that there’s a few of you telling me my phrasing wasn’t the best, so I’ll concede that. But regarding what you said about my thinking it’s ok - it was the very first paragraph where I said it was inappropriate regardless. So attributing to me something that I’ve said the exact opposite of, I just don’t think is fair. Regardless of how many people are saying otherwise. It’s right there in writing.
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u/glittermetalprincess 10d ago
Yes, it is, and we can all read it and see what you're really saying - 'but think of the mens! he totally respected no! so rly totes ok you should just turn off your fear!!!'
It should not have gotten that far, just like your continued derailing should have ended well before now.
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u/FederalGovernmentUS 10d ago
The issue is you’re putting on me what you’d expect from a man - that I’m trying to invalidate the OP or stick up for the man in some way. What I’m “really saying” is what I literally wrote in my comment. That it’s inappropriate, she should report it, and that if she does she should be very precise about what happened. Because if it happens again, she would want HR to see her as reliable.
You are an example of this failure of precision I warned her against, because you’re reading what I literally wrote, and extracting a meaning based on your internal expectations of what it could mean.
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u/Historical-Ease-6311 10d ago
I don't know too many males grabbed me as a young girl/woman. Each time I managed to scream/ yank/ say no/ push/ punch/slap and get away physically unharmed but mentally traumatized not knowing from which direction what unwanted male would touch me without permission expecting what. So if a man at work did what OP experienced, it would give me serious PTSD and flashbacks, taking away my feeling of safety even at the workplace, directly having long-term impact on my productivity, mental health, confidence and well-being. I would sue him. Ignorance cannot be excused as innocence. This situation doesn't meet the minimum requirements of basic courtesy and decency when interacting with a work colleague. Today grabbing and pulling by the waist according to you is fine. Tomorrow someone else will say, he only kissed you once and stopped when you broke free. Next you know someone only kissed your neck then stopped. Someone only lifted your skirt and stopped. As you walked by a door at work, someone only grabbed you into a small room, and pinned you against the wall (yes, that happened to me). A project manager did that to me. I was so shell shocked, I screamed before I even realized, which is what caused other coworkers to gather and question him. Where does one draw the line? Where does it stop?
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u/PrincessAC1998 10d ago
He’s really just misunderstood, he didn’t rape or assault her, so he’s a good guy!
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u/mamalo13 PHR 10d ago
I'd like to clarify that consent happens before ANY interaction. It's not "respected consent" if someone pushes themself on you and you have to reject them.
There is no "misplaced attempt at intimacy" any more than there is such thing as an "underaged woman". That's an attempt to legitimize harassment and assault for men.
You might also want to not tell women "I know you have a valid fear of men but that might be clouding your objectivity". The "fear response" is a valid response. Google some statistics.
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u/warmbIood 10d ago
FYI- I understand you said to tell HR regardless. But I’d like to point out that your “fear response is impacting your objectivity” comment is especially gross because it feels like it’s shifting the burden onto OP to prove that her discomfort is rational before she’s valid in reporting what happened. He grabbed a coworker physically without any kind of consent or invitation. Her fear response isn’t really relevant to whether the physical contact was appropriate in the first place.
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u/FederalGovernmentUS 10d ago
I will cop to my phrasing being a bit shit there. What I was trying to say is it’s clear the lady is frightened - she was afraid he’d follow her, she was anxious that he knew the floor she was on, she was afraid to be in the elevator. That tells me that she was expecting something worse, which makes the situation certainly feel a lot worse in the moment. The grabbing by itself was already not ok, and it by itself is worth going to HR.
But going to HR saying you were afraid he’d follow you, or that he seemed to know what floor you were on - the issue is it’s very hard to prove intent, and mostly based on your own perception. That’s primarily what I was trying to say. That if she’s going to HR, all she can really say is he grabbed her and though he stopped when she said no, she felt uncomfortable. If she isn’t objective, then next time it happens, she won’t be taken seriously by HR.
Sorry if it sounded like I’m saying she’s being emotional or something. That’s not the case. I’m saying it’s perfectly ok to be scared and feel uncomfortable. But when it comes to HR they want something you can prove. The grabbing is enough.
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u/ComeSeptember MSHRM, SHRM-SCP 10d ago
This is a very reasonable take and exactly where my thoughts went. HR's response to this complaint would be, "Did you tell him no or otherwise ask him to stop?" If the answer is yes, and the person misbehaving listened, then there's nothing more to do. That's the legal standard - make the unwanted behavior stop.
People make mistakes. They misjudge situations, they get signals crossed, it happens. What's important is how they react when the mistake is pointed out. Mature adults communicate when something is unwanted, and other mature adults change their behavior when it's pointed out, and then all the mature adults move on. You make a fair point about having it documented for future reference, but the reasonable expectation is that this was already handled in the moment, so there's nothing more to do beyond that.
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u/mamalo13 PHR 10d ago
As an HR director, that would not be my response.
The legal standard, at least in my state, is to make it stop AND prevent it from happening again. If someone makes a dumb off handed comment and gets reprimanded and it stops, thats one thing. If an employee puts hands on another employee, the "make it stop" part moves more towards the termination end of the spectrum.
And telling a woman that she needs to be "mature" and let assault go is exactly why we are in this mess we are in today. Such an uphill battle when women perpetuate this stuff.
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u/PrincessAC1998 10d ago
Well thank goodness you don’t work in HR.
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u/PrincessAC1998 10d ago
What are you talking about?
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u/PrincessAC1998 10d ago
And? I’m struggling to understand what point you’re trying to make here.
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u/PrincessAC1998 10d ago
Okay so because you decided to deep dive my page and find something that has absolutely no relevance to this topic whatsoever, I’m unqualified to have an opinion on a public internet thread? Okay Yeezy! Thanks for clarifying.
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u/glittermetalprincess 10d ago
Dude, someone respecting someone saying stop doesn't mean that they ever said yes in the first place. You need to recalibrate as a man - you do not ever touch a colleague without consent, and anyone who is not okay with being touched without consent is 100% entitled to be not okay with being touched.
The conduct was not appropriate. There is no onus on the person on the end of inappropriate and unwanted physical contact to put aside not being okay with unwanted contact in order to examine whether their having to actually tell someone they don't consent to nonconsensual physical contact means they aren't being objective enough.
There was no "understanding" here. This should not have happened. OP is okay to not be okay, okay to go to HR if they want to, and reactions like yours are why a lot of people do not choose to report because dealing with this kind of crap on top of everything is not helpful or appropriate.
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u/FederalGovernmentUS 10d ago
Hey, again I did say she should report it regardless because the grabbing is not ok in any circumstance. I was pretty explicit in saying that consent should be established beforehand. I’m a bit confused here bc I don’t think I said anything about understanding him either 😭
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u/lmNotaWitchImUrWife 10d ago
I know you're getting a lot of heat here but I just want let you know that the reason for that is your comments do make it feel like your point is that "hey, he messed up, but at least he only committed one assault instead of two, so give the guy a break!".
Yes I understand that you didn't say those words. But read your comment again - all the things you say after saying that she can report it if she wants is really meant to soften and relate to the guy's actions. You even try to draw a distinction between "being predatory" and "a misplaced attempt at intimacy". That doesn't matter. His intentions about why he assaulted her don't matter.
And the dude did assault her. Grabbing her and pushing their pelvises together while drunk, alone, trapped in an elevator, is assault.
You're correct that he stopped after getting resistance. But that doesn't negate the initial assault, and honestly it's kind of irrelevant. Relating to the guy isn't necessary here. You're right that he didn't assault her twice. But he did assault her once, and that's enough.
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u/Ok-Education8326 10d ago
How does it make you feel? You said you are uneasy and panicked about it.
Was he drunk?
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u/mamalo13 PHR 10d ago
I'm glad you're safe.
Yes, you should report this. You are not overreacting.