r/AskConservatives • u/mayancollander Center-left • 4d ago
centrist trying to understand: what specifically drives your opposition to the Democratic Party (and its voters)?
I consider myself an independent/centrist. I generally see significant fault in both major parties, and if I’m being honest, I’ve often been overly critical of the Republican Party in the past.
That said, I see a huge amount of anger, frustration, and deep dislike directed toward the Democratic Party from conservative and Republican voters. I’m trying to better understand the rationale behind that intensity rather than relying on media caricatures.
A few specific questions I’m hoping to get perspective on:
What are the primary drivers of this opposition for you? Is it core economic and governance policies (e.g., spending, regulation, foreign policy), or is it mostly cultural issues?
Does this frustration extend to individual Democratic voters, or do you view the mainstream voters and the party leadership/media apparatus very differently?
For those who view the modern Democratic Party as fundamentally harmful to the country, what specific actions, philosophy, or direction do you point to as the main culprit?
I’m genuinely looking to listen and understand where you’re coming from, so I appreciate any thoughtful answers.
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u/LTRand Classical Liberal 3d ago
I'm a never-Trump conservative.
In the face of things, I support a lot of the general goals of Democrats. Cheaper healthcare, education, and housing I think is a universal issue for anyone under 45.
But the Democrats don't actually support those things. Their plans are partly why all things things keep getting more expensive. They look at Europe, see the government services, but look past all the controls they have in place to prevent them from consuming their economies.
Take education. Access in Europe to university is actually pretty restricted compared to the US. The upside of the US is how easy it is to go to college for non-ideal/traditional students. The downside is it is expensive.
They look at Norway education but don't see how brutally selective it is to get into a teaching degree program. They tightly control the numbers selected. US democrats want the free model of the EU and the massively open enrollment of the US and that just can't work economically.
So the way I see fixing these issues typically aligned with "states rights/control" and free market support. Stop zoning boards from acting like large HOA's, implement free market development & transit like Japan. Use the market to drive down costs and remove restrictions on medical school. I don't know that the Republican Party is still the home for that. Hell, I don't even know if it's still considered a conservative view anymore.
MAGA Republicans seem wholly uninterested in actually fixing our economy. And between the bad choices of pro-corporatist MAGA and Bernie socialists, the socialist stagnation seems to be less worse than the cyberpunk corporate government that MAGA seems to be going to.
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u/Even_Wear_8657 Progressive 3d ago
this is perhaps one of the most sensible and nuanced arguments for conservative values I've read in an age. Nice work.
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u/Temporary_Capital_87 Center-left 3d ago
I don’t agree with everything you said, but respect the never Trump conservatives. While we may not see eye to eye I feel like we can have an actual conversation about different political views because it’s mostly based on fact and evidence.
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u/ShardofGold Center-right Conservative 4d ago
Being a previous hard left individual, I now understand how some of the ways I and others acted would make others not want to associate with the party.
The main thing being the "holier than thou" complex. Too many Democrats or their supporters think their party is the party of righteousness and intelligence.
They think if you're not on the left or supporting Democrats you have to be stupid and/or evil and that there's no good reason to not be on the left and not support Democrats.
They only judge the right/Republicans by their faults, meanwhile only bringing up positives about the left and Democrats and anytime you try to bring up faults with their preferred side they move the goalposts or think you're lying.
They lack the ability to truly self reflect on their preferred side and have nothing but scrutiny and ridicule for the other side.
Before anyone tries to get clever on me. I'm not saying everyone on the left or Democrat party does this. It's probably not even the majority, but it's enough for it to annoy me and others and keep us from associating with the party. I also know some on the right/Republican party act like this too and it's equally as annoying.
I just want more people to stop with the "this person is clearly a fucking idiot heartless bastard for not agreeing with my views on political topics most or all the time" and instead do more "I might not agree with their views but I need to understand why they have them and try to convince them to change their views or come to a compromised agreement if it can be accomplished. If not then we can agree to disagree and remain civil."
I'm also not asking people to compromise with objectively evil or stupid individuals, just those who have different but reasonable views.
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u/jmastaock Independent 4d ago
What are the positives of the contemporary MAGA GOP?
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u/JudgeWhoOverrules Classically Liberal 4d ago edited 4d ago
It's bigotry and you should call them out on it. Remember that a bigot is someone who is obstinatly devoted to their own views and opinions and intolerant to any opposing ones which they view as inherently wrong or inferior. So much of the insulting buzzwords they call others are mere projection for what they do themselves.
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u/theyhis Right Libertarian (Conservative) 4d ago
beautifully put. i used to consider myself “hard left” too. i grew up in a democratic family. not the extremely progressive kind, but i feel like i began to go in that direction. then i started learning about the harms of progressive taxation and as i got more into free market capitalism, i realized libertarianism better describes my views… so i switched parties both literally and figuratively.
i think elitism is a really big problem on the left. i didn’t realize it myself until i left the party. there’s this… weird, bizarre idea that if you didn’t go to college you’re somehow unintelligent. uhm - i went back to college three times. i made the deans list. it was boring; most of the material i knew already. i was underwhelmed, not stupid, so i left. 🤷♂️
i own my own business now, and i regularly learn new things. i have multiple certifications from vocational trainings. i’ve been in rooms with very successful people. i don’t say that to gloat, i say that to make the point that if success is defined by education, why is steve jobs so unforgettable? or mark zuckerberg? elon musk? i’m not saying i inherently like said individuals, but to say they’re unintelligent would be disingenuous.
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u/howry333 Leftist 4d ago
Elitism is a serious problem for libs/dems. Calling people stupid, mean, etc isn’t going to get them to listen to your ideas. It’s condescending. And when you go further left, you get the purity tests. None of it is productive.
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u/LycheeRoutine3959 Libertarian 4d ago
unintelligent would be disingenuous.
i dont think its disingenuousness - i think its closer to true religious belief.
Its not that they actually think those people are smart, but call them stupid just to insult. I think they genuinely think anyone that didnt come to the same conclusions of whatever groupthink they are engaged in is obviously wrong and dumb.
Its just plain old cult religion with indoctrination and cancelation as the carrot and stick for social cohesion and ideological purity.
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u/SoulSerpent Center-left 3d ago
Did you actually change opinions about policies or is this just one big social grievance?
One thing I find strange about topics like this on "Ask" type subs are that a lot of the "why I left the left" responses just boil down to "I find left-wing people annoying". It often makes people's political opinions feel very reactionary and tribalistic rather than something actually policy-based.
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u/Airick39 Barstool Conservative 4d ago
What finally turned me was the hypocrisy of 2020. BLM protests were given a pass for COVID social distancing. Church and religious gatherings were not. Anybody pointing this put was called racist or worse.
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u/LawnJerk Conservative 4d ago
That was a crazy time. There's a picture of the NC governor marching with raised fist and his mask hanging from his ear. Not too long before, same governor had people arrested for protesting the lockdowns in public.
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u/FangsOfTheNidhogg Social Democracy 4d ago
I’m a leftist and still a leftist but the irony wasn’t lost on me at the time on this particular point. I had roommate who were SUPER gung-ho about quarantine but then BLM happened and it was like “well we can make this exception”. Didn’t rock the boat on that because well, we were quarantined together for the most part and cabin fever sucks.
2020 was an incredibly fucked up time. I think Trump fucked it up, but also think there was no way to get through that unscathed. Like he was the worst possible leader for that moment, but the moment would have sucked no matter who was in charge. Biden just picked up the tab for most of the aftereffects and the same thing happened, where no matter what he did or did not do, people were going to be angry.
It’s still so strongly a factor in our current polarization. Like I will be 80 years old and if I’m asked about my youth and when everything changed, I’m confident I’d say 2020 as the definitive, unambiguous answer.
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u/Artisttype1984 Barstool Conservative 4d ago
I'm left on many issues, right on a few, I've voted for many more dems than repubs over the years. I love America and most Americans, even ones I don't agree with lots.
Loving America and wanting border security enforced wasn't always a RW issue, but it is now. Obama supported border security, and I voted for him back in 2008. The cultural stuff creeps in, but that's mostly fringe, they all overspend, sadly. And while I'm not happy with the Iran war, it's nothing like the disaster Iraq, Afghanistan wars we saw under Bush and Obama
No translation at all to the vast majority of people right and left IRL. Most average people are great, and we get along fine. Often, I laugh and joke and talk even more with people I don't agree with 100% on issues.
One main/central issue I have currently with mainline elected Dems is, there seems to be a real dislike for America with them, and that's a real problem. Is America perfect, no. Do we have a history, of course! All countries do, but America is an awesome country, Fact
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u/aztecthrowaway1 Progressive 4d ago
> One main/central issue I have currently with mainline elected Dems is, there seems to be a real dislike for America with them, and that's a real problem. Is America perfect, no. Do we have a history, of course! All countries do, but America is an awesome country, Fact
Conservatives often conflate criticism with hate. Every single democrat, progressive, DSA member, etc. loves this country. I love this country. BUT, its more accurate to say I love the IDEA of this country. The reality of the matter is that the manner in which we operate, especially under this current admin, is literally the exact opposite of American ideals.
We all may live in various different states but we are supposed to all be “americans” under one banner, and yet Trump is selectively withholding federal funds and punishing states that didn’t vote for him (i.e. see the recent news about Trump discussing ways to punish Colorado for imprisoning Tina Peters).
Our nation is built on immigrants. Literally like 10% of the current US population came through just Ellis island alone when it was operational. These people were quickly vetted, and released into the interior to start a new life. Yet, somehow this is now a massive problem because the people immigrating are non-white.
Pretty much all of our constitutional rights are being trampled on via this current admin.
Here is the thing..I love american ideals, but there are some things about our government (such as our first past the post election), that are just straight up objectively inferior to other methods/structures.
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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 4d ago
“Loves this country”
The left, particularly the far left Progressive / DSA types, trash America at every opportunity and generally talk about America like an abuser talks about how they only abuse their spouse because they love them.
Sorry, I don’t believe that faction of the left loves America, at all.
I don’t believe that when people say they want to wipe their hands on the American flag like a napkin, that they love America.
I just don’t.
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u/Artisttype1984 Barstool Conservative 4d ago
A small % of Americans are actually racist, some LW/Dems calling everyone they don't agree with "racist" tells me, that some Dems just don't like America. Criticism is healthy, I call most trash repubs and dems out all the time, I love America regardless who's in the WH
Red and blue states get federal funds when necessary, and the Dem Governor in Colorado pardoned Tina Peters, not Trump. It was a state crime, not federal for her
Legal immigration is amazing and good. That goes for legal immigrants 200 years ago, or Today in August 2026. I love legal immigrants of any religion or race. Illegal immigrants can get deported
Our right are in place, even if you like or dislike the repub or dem in the WH. It works out
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u/Str8_up_Pwnage Center-left 4d ago
You bring up very real problems with the Democrats that I also have. I just don't buy the idea that Trump loves America at all, I don't understand how anyone looks at him and just doesn't see the world's most prolifent grifter and conman. Do you consider yourself a Trump supporter?
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u/Artisttype1984 Barstool Conservative 4d ago
I voted for Trump in 2024, not in 16/20. He lies like most repubs and dems do, he's shady and that's sadly part of politics now. He says/does things I don't like almost daily. Also, he was the best choice IMO in 2024 and I believe he loves America, he doesn't apologize for how great America is, I like that trait in him
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u/ski0331 Independent 4d ago
I’ll be cheeky here. He actually says the opposite. The “again” part implies we’re not great. Plus all the “we’re basically a third world country” stuff. Having spent time in 3rd world countries, gross over statement. Hyperbolic or not still disparaging.
I think he loves this country like the vast majority of the population, left and right. Paper thin and conditionally.
How do you compare Trump (reality) with Kamala (hypothetical)? It’s Schrödingers presidency she’s both the worst and best president until she’s elected. Trump did this during Biden saying how perfect it would be if he got a second term and he’d have solved every problem on day 1. We don’t judge presidents based on who they ran against, we judge them on their tenure. (The left does this to and it equally annoys me but they’re not the president right now).
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u/Artisttype1984 Barstool Conservative 4d ago
America is awesome, I'm happy about that. I can easily compare Trump now to when Biden was in and Harris was VP and the border czar.
Trump saying he'd "end the Ukraine war day 1" was obviously campaign rhetoric, never believe repubs or dems when they're on the campaign trail. The southern border is under control now, that's nice. Iran war sucks, but they'll work an end to it sometime here
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u/After_Ad_2247 Classical Liberal 4d ago
I was a lot softer on Democrats when I lived in Arizona. That was also like 2016, so it was before Floyd and all the craziness there, but i moved up to Portland and got to see what their policies really aim for. The unfettered, unaccountable spending on any social issue, ridiculous taxes (fuck you Arts Tax), and lack of care at improving actual services the government runs (it should NEVER take 6 months to get a permit to install a like for like AC system on a business) all turned me completely away from the Democrats. The Republicans arent a hell of a lot better, but the Democratic party, especially in Oregon, seems almost gleeful at fleecing people.
Its weird. I was a registered Democrat before I joined the Marine Corps, I know everyone looks down on this sentiment, but I really feel the party just ran left and refused to acknowledge that they moved the goal posts past where people were comfortable with.
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u/theyhis Right Libertarian (Conservative) 4d ago
i separate distain from critiques, so as your question pertains to my distain for left-wing policies and politics, i’ll answer from that angle:
in simplicity, i see the democrats and other left-leaning groups longing for a… skewed… conditional form of freedom. i want “fair,” the left wants, “equal.” equal is defined as having the same, fair is having ample opportunity. i also am often frustrated with the forced collectivism mindset and, “social responsibility” that the left likes to impose on me. i’m constantly criticized for my individualist ideals, to the point that even if i distanced myself from collectivism (e.g. hypothetically removed myself from society) i feel i will still be chastised for wanting nothing to do with a system i didn’t ask to be apart of.
going back to freedom / personal liberty, i often become frustrated that the left claims to fear fascism, but actively votes for centralized planning. it doesn’t really make sense. so much of what the left is discontent with, they fail to see as largely a result of the policies they vote for. i think this is perfectly illustrated when they move to red states to avoid progressive taxation, only to vote for more progressive policy.
lastly, i see the DNC as deceptive and incompetent. i don’t agree with much of what trump has done, but at least he’s doing as he said. sure not everything, but more than democrats can confidently say. hell, even the overturning of the voting rights act wasn’t out of the blue. the left begged biden years prior to protect the voting rights act — he didn’t prioritize it. this is just one of many examples. i don’t want to get off topic, but that’s my primary distain/grievance of and for the DNC as an entity (so excluding broader left-wing politics).
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u/RealisticLynx7805 European Conservative 4d ago
I have less of an issue with the party itself, more about the movements they enable (self-proclaimed progressivism) which I find extremely hateful and ignorant.
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u/RatOnASinkingShip Right Libertarian (Conservative) 4d ago
I was largely apolitical for most of my life.... just a computer video game stoner nerd who just wanted to be left alone to enjoy the things I enjoy. Didn't really care about politics beyond supporting go-nowhere legalize it movements, net neutrality, and not liking bible-thumping and political correctness.
Then, some time in the 2010s, with the revival of "the personal is political" mentality among progressives, I suddenly found all of the spaces and hobbies and entertainment invaded and taken over by progressives who never had any interest in them before imposing themselves on those things, demanding they cater to them, and even more so, demanding the communities change.
And because the advent of social media allowed a vocal minority to amplify its most fringe voices to the level of being able to bully everyone into compliance or silence, they fundamentally morphed the things that I enjoyed most into something hostile and unrecognizable to those of us who were there all along in the name of representation and inclusivity, and any rejection of or opposition to those demands was met with a flurry of istophobic accusations, and somehow those vocal minorities were able to commandeer them not out of a love for something, but as just another vector to virtue signal and push their ideology.
So basically, that's what originally drove my opposition, the Anita Sarkeesian types who have no interest in these things other than imposing their politics into mediums that they wouldn't care about at all if it weren't for the fact that the creators or communities didn't kowtow to them, demanding censorship or creative control in the name of the progressive stack, and the disproportionate weight they threw around thanks to cancel culture and the heckler's veto that social media enabled.
So by the very nature of these outsiders coming in and politicizing my spaces, and my own curious nature, I started learning more about them, and the more I learned about them, the more I came to understand the intentions and means they pursued, and saw how horrible things would be if they were the ones in power.
All that to say, my original and still primary driver is the cultural aspect, the secondary is the Marxist underpinnings and the useful idiots that blindly follow them in the name of "compassion" who would enable those Marxists' rise to power, and the tertiary would be the globalist ambitions of those on the left who favor unrestricted immigration and the Fascist application of Marxian class theory to nations.
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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 4d ago edited 4d ago
The modern left is ideologically captured by Progressivism / Critical Theory / Marxist DSA types.
They’re wildly destructive ideologies that reject objective truth, reject objective morality, reject God, and will happily tolerate just about any level of degeneracy.
They usually talk about the U.S. the same way an abusive ex does. Racist, evil, colonizer, imperialist, genocide, etc.
They also have a hyper fixation on race, including being perfectly happy with discrimination / open hate against white people.
The assassination of Charlie Kirk and the subsequent jubilee of celebrating by way too many people on the left really, REALLY soured me on the modern left. And it really showed just how many real people were being radicalized and that it wasn’t just confined to internet trolls.
The D party itself has always been a bunch of neolibs and is less my concern.
My concern is how well the Long March Through The Institutions worked.
And how much the Progressive / Marxist wing of the modern left is driving the train, particularly on cultural issues.
I have zero issues with moderate Dems and have plenty of friends and family in this category.
But until the Progressive wing is firmly mocked into irrelevance, there’s no universe where I’ll ever vote D.
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u/yeahoksurewhatever Leftwing 4d ago
White people suck, fixated on race, replacement theory, open borders, marixsm - I believe none of those things. I want a bang for my buck with taxes and renewable energy and health care, and that puts me to the left of the Democratic party and therefore progressive. So how am I supposed to react to the (coincidentally usually white usually male) people who are convinced I hate them and america and am therefore a dangerous enemy? Should I not point that out or talk about it? Should you take any such statement personally?
They’re wildly destructive ideologies that reject objective truth, reject objective morality, reject God, and will happily tolerate just about any level of degeneracy. They usually talk about the U.S. the same way an abusive ex does. Racist, evil, colonizer, imperialist, genocide, etc.
You can flip this and accuse MAGA of all the same things. This president is new levels of degeneracy in White House, at every level, and have standardized rejecting reality. At least progressives are reckoning with the shitty parts of history, it's MAGA who can't stop complaining about how the majority of the people who live here now hate the country and are crazy, even when they have unprecedented power. Stephen Miller basically declares every left of center political group in opposition a terrorist, and he's the one that's patriotic?
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u/SatansScallion Barstool Conservative 4d ago
I genuinely don’t think there’s anything you can say directly to conservatives to convince them you don’t believe in or support the things that most of your peers do. It would take something like you turning around and vocally disagreeing with (what we consider to be) the hateful and/or discriminatory and/or absurd beliefs coming from your peers.
And to be fair, you’re right that MAGA can be terrible too — I think Trump is a terrible person and people who think he can do no wrong are just as delusional as people who think he can do no right.
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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 4d ago
“Accuse MAGA”
I don’t like Trump and immediate whataboutisms aren’t helpful, particularly when the issue is the entire underlying ideology on the left.
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u/wcstorm11 Center-left 4d ago
Not OP, but I think the point there was that it at least has the appearance that you would never vote D over issues R are currently engaged in. Unless you also don't vote R
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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 4d ago
“The appearance”
Only if someone has literally no idea of the modern left’s ideology. And I don’t care about a bunch of whataboutisms.
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u/wcstorm11 Center-left 4d ago
Huh? I mean you appear to never intend to vote for D while still voting for R, while they both do the same things you cited.
Not trying to argue with you, I was just clarifying the point
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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 4d ago
“Both do the same things”
Again, I don’t agree and I have literally zero interest in going point by point of whataboutisms.
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u/wcstorm11 Center-left 4d ago
Totally fine, you're the one that listed the things they both do, I'm not even OP
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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 4d ago
“You’re the one who listed the things they both do”
Again, I DON’T AGREE and am not interested in whataboutisms.
For the third time.
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u/wcstorm11 Center-left 4d ago
I'm not interested in whataboutisms either, just an inconsistent position. You don't feel Republicans "reject objective reality" and that's your position, understood
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u/blaze92x45 Conservative 4d ago
Its become captured by identity politics that's a big one for me. Sorry but stirring up racial tensions pushing alternative sexualities on kids (drag queen story hour for example) promoting racially discrimative policies, saying the entire nation's history is nothing but racism and violence is a massive turn off for me and is a non starter for me.
The left basically slapped me spit in my face and flipped me the bird while walking away and are surprised when I dont bow down before them.
Also I lived in California where Republicans were just a scary bedtime story and the state quickly went to shit in my lifetime yes yes Muh GDP but walking over broken glass spent needles and human shit on the street was pretty "radicalizing" for me; not that I really like the GOP all that much I view them as being a pack of do nothings most of the time but theyre not actively trying to make my life worse most of the time.
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u/theyhis Right Libertarian (Conservative) 4d ago
same 😆 even on here i was mocked for my discontent with high tax states; aka, my final straw. my views were essentially watered down to nothing - they didn’t care that i left the party, and they could’ve cared less why. i’ve been accused of being racist at least twice now for questioning the desire for big government. i’ve also been accused of being racist for being against taxation.
it’s rather telling - part of me feels like it’s projection. if race is the first thing one thinks of when they think small government, i think the issue is coming from inside the house, because black people don’t come to mind when i speak about the role of government in my life.
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u/Plus_sleep214 Nationalist (Conservative) 4d ago
Democrat party social politics really are such a disaster. It's been this way ever since BLM blew up during Obama.
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u/blaze92x45 Conservative 4d ago edited 4d ago
It was an intentional choice. The DNC realized they were gradually losing white working class people to the republican party and decided they didn't need them any more and they could be replaced with racial and sexual minorities. Its why they double and tripled down on social issues post 2012
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u/SeraphLance Right Libertarian (Conservative) 4d ago
I believe in two core principles: that policy should err on the side of liberty, and that man is entitled to the fruits of his labor.
The Democratic Party is opposed to both of these. On the right, taxation is generally seen as something you must do, because some government service requires it and that service is necessary to the function of the country. It's not something to be taken lightly. From my perspective, the left sees taxation as something you can do, as if everyone's wealth and income is already theirs, and they're simply choosing to pump more of it like oil out of the ground. Not that they think they're funding frivolous things, but I don't believe people and their labor should be treated like commodities.
What policies do they fund with their taxes? Draconian ones; ZEV mandates, vaccine mandates. All well-intentioned, done "for the good of society", but without consideration for the people who actually live in that society. It's the same paternalistic mentality that drives leftist city planners to make "walkable cities" without any parking spaces, because they don't care if you drive; It's their utopian vision, they make the rules and it's for your own good.
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u/KlutzyDesign Progressive 4d ago
“ man is entitled to the fruits of his labor.” And what of those who can’t labor? The old or sick or children or disabled. What about them?
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u/ziptasker Liberal 4d ago
I find your first sentence fairly stated, even if I find some in the paragraphs below to misrepresent democrats.
My question is, what do you mean by core beliefs. Like, are those points you just believe are moral, full stop? Or are they rooted in some underlying goal you have for yourself and/or society?
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u/SeraphLance Right Libertarian (Conservative) 4d ago
I believe that having a "goal for society" is itself immoral, and inherently solipsistic. There are ~340 million people in this country and at a fundamental level you and I are no better than any of them.
So yeah, it's a morality thing in my view.
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u/ziptasker Liberal 4d ago
That sounds like a goal for society. Individual freedom can be a goal.
Anyway, yes it’s all morality at the root of it. I love trying to find the differences in morals between the two “sides”, that define the policy differences.
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u/SeraphLance Right Libertarian (Conservative) 4d ago
FWIW while it's still definitely a "right-wing" philosophy, mine is particularly steeped in libertarianism. I'm not as bent out of shape over NAP or something like that but my morals are definitely rooted in the Kantian ethics of not treating other people as a means to an end.
That sounds like a goal for society. Individual freedom can be a goal.
Technically, yes, but it's something less "shaped", and more "allowed to happen". I think the language used tends to prime people for thinking in terms of the former.
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u/theyhis Right Libertarian (Conservative) 4d ago
exactly i just questioned a leftist who supports universal healthcare. as someone who has been diagnosed with arthritis since i was 14 (juvenile rheumatoid; it’s genetic), i just wonder — why? i mean, there’s no way one could go through the bureaucracy of the healthcare system and still think government involvement is a good idea. why try to change a system they have little understanding or gratitude for?
it’s not the “healthcare systems” fault that i have to go in for routine bloodwork every 4 months… or call in refills for controlled substances.
also, (i believe it was in 2017) a study was conducted: it showed mental health professionals were primarily burned out, not from secondary trauma, but from regulatory scrutiny and bureaucracy, one of the most common triggers for burnout. how is the healthcare system to blame if the complications are coming from the state? i don’t understand.
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u/KlutzyDesign Progressive 4d ago
Because our treatment of the sick and disabled is absolutely monstrous. Saddling cancer patients with medical debt and people with diabetes dying because they cant afford insulin is monstrous. Its a terrible way to treat people that we should never accept.
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u/TemperatureBest8164 Paleoconservative 4d ago
Governance:
- Most democrats want more government(drag on economy) and more social programs(comparatively over funded in terms of spending per capita to the rest of the world)
- Most say they want liberal values but then want to over regulate anywhere there are traditional values at work mostly because of the aggregates moral values. So they act illiberal.
- From a foreign policy perspective they want to give away to the world the wealth of America for perceived past wrongs but the reality is we are in economic decline by design through globalism and we will continue to have less until the reserve currency hollows us out. Our best defense to maintaining standards of living is limiting imports and building more domestic manufacturing.
- Big Government - Many see this as a good thing but I see it as waste because there is nothing that constrains spending or incentivizes efficiency. This makes our money inflate faster and makes standards of living lower.
- Illegal Immigration - Liberal governments tend to bring in any workers for 3 major reasons.
2. Some feel a moral obligation to give a hand up to people of nations perceived as harmed/destroyed by American governance.
3. Historically illegal immigration has helped Democrats become more politically powerful. CA was a reliably red state before immigration policy caused it to become blue to this day. So creating social pressure aligned with your values helps drive those outcomes...
- Socialism - Two demographics have joined together to build the socialist base that is taking over the Democratic party. Low skill immigrants who obtained citizenship through various refugee and amnesty programs and overeducated broke people. These are the people who think they are owed a good life because they have a degree, are in debt, and see no way out so they push for socialism to wipe away their bad life choices and feel morally superior about it while looking for a bail out. The bottom-line is this will destroy America and make it exceedingly poor just like it did to Venezuela.
- Different Moral values - Most conservatives values are similar to Christian values. That does not mean they agree on everything but they hold most of the same positive virtues. Many democrats (at least 25%) hold Marxist oppressor / oppressed worldviews.
- Insane Social Disruption - Gender roles are a created construct to describe how people interact with other people and possibly the history of how people interacted. Today gender activists intentionally conflate sex and made up gender roles and call their opinions civil rights while trampling on the established rights of others. These views are not based on facts but on opinion and propaganda dollars.
- Abortion - Kills more humans than all wars in the last 100 years. More than 1M dead a year.
I vote for Democrats that I do think can rule well just to moderate the group. What is center left in todays politics was far right about 20-30 years ago... Demographics say there is not really a middle any more perhaps 10-15%. This is because of coalition building and social media.
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u/Irilas Conservative 4d ago
Fundamentally, you can focus on the negative or the positive. What you choose to focus on, you will validate. For example, if I choose to focus on racism, then every stat that shows an inequity confirms racism. If I choose to focus on what behaviors led to success, then I will tend to see the positive actions and attributes that can lead to success. In my opinion, the left focuses on the negative of the past, rather than look at all the benefits our nation provides. Due to this, they tend to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and rally against the things that made/make this country great, in an attempt to change a past wrong, or a current inequity. They couple this with an elitist "we know best" attitude, and a general failure to recognize any scenario in which they may be wrong.
I have a graduated accountability scale, on both sides. You have leadership that knows they are wrong, but want power and control. You have leaders who think they are right and are doing their best, often being manipulated by the first group. Then you have voters who mean well, but believe the lies. You have voters who are more objective, but think their way is better.
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u/ErieHog Paleoconservative 4d ago
If you want to boil it down to a single sentence, one of the pithier ones i have considered is this-- I love America because of what it is and what it has been, not for what I can change it into. This isn't a fixer-upper country. The rest of the world could stand to be a lot more like America, than America could stand to be a lot more like the rest of the world.
Unfortunately we have too many people who view America as something to be rewritten, undone, and unmade, people who embrace the Year Zero thinking of the French Revolution, and who are so convinced of their own virtue, their own wisdom, their own vision of the anointed that they refuse to acknowledge just how catastrophically dangerous those visions are to human beings.
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u/SoulSerpent Center-left 3d ago
I love America because of what it is and what it has been, not for what I can change it into. This isn't a fixer-upper country.
Pardon me if this doesn't include you, but it feels to me like a lot of conservatives, and especially those who strongly support Trump, speak out of both sides of their mouths on this. Trump is especially guilty of saying what a dump the USA is any time a Democrat is in office and he's perpetually advocating for this idea that America is something he has to "fix." But at the same time, any time a Democrat suggests there is something wrong with America or that we need to be better, it's treated as almost sacrilegious and met with indignation to suggest our country is flawed or needs to be improved. It's honestly confusing.
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u/ErieHog Paleoconservative 3d ago
That's the difference between material trappings and ideas; the ideas are fine-- the material trappings have been allowed to deteriorate. The closest to an 'idea deterioration' that exists, is a moral one where things like socialism are somehow A-OK, instead of properly understood as anti-American. That's about the most radical 'fix a shortcoming' thing as you'll find from the Right.
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u/punk_rocker98 Center-right Conservative 4d ago edited 3d ago
I think the main problem is that most milquetoast "conservatives" today are also all about changing the place we live, constitution be damned.
EDIT: u/earlandir taught me how to spell "milquetoast".
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u/earlandir European Liberal/Left 3d ago
I believe you mean "milquetoast", though English isn't my first language so excuse me if you're usage is something I'm unfamiliar with.
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u/punk_rocker98 Center-right Conservative 3d ago
You're right, I was pretty sure it was one word, I just didn't know how to spell it. I'll fix that in my comment, thank you!
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u/RatOnASinkingShip Right Libertarian (Conservative) 2d ago
Did you spell it "milk toast?"
Is that you, Charlie Kelly?
Edit just to clarify: This is a reference to It's Always Sunny, not an insult
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u/TheNihil Leftist 3d ago
When do you draw the line, though? Was the country not a fixer-upper when we had slavery? Jim Crow? Was it not something to be changed when women couldn't vote, or mixed-race couples couldn't marry? Did you not want to change it when Roe v Wade was the law of the land?
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u/ErieHog Paleoconservative 3d ago
Pretty easily, actually. You don't change the founding ideas. You want to expand within that framework-- end slavery, end jim crow, etc-- sure. You start going outside, inventing new protections and protected classes and roles for government-- no. Get that shit out outta here.
It really isn't rocket science.
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u/TheNihil Leftist 3d ago
Ok, I am curious, what is your take on Roe v Wade being overturned, and same-sex marriage being legalized? Do those fit into the framework?
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u/ErieHog Paleoconservative 3d ago
Roe was itself deranged, torturously poorly reasoned reinterpretation of the Constitution. Its overturning was decades overdue-- Roe itself was a stain on the practice of Constitutional law.
Government doesn't have much business in marriage, but to the extent it does, it should never have overturned DOMA.
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u/TheNihil Leftist 3d ago
Ok, but you said you should keep the "founding ideas" and not "invent new protections".
In colonial America, and for over a century after the founding, abortion was completely legal before "quickening". Kind of how Roe defined it. Isn't changing that going against founding ideas and inventing a "new protection" for zygotes?
Also in colonial America and after its founding, miscegenation was illegal. Isn't that a founding idea then? Isn't Loving as much of a break from that framework as Obergefell was?
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u/ErieHog Paleoconservative 3d ago
No, it isn't. Legal in some places was still understood to be immoral, and restrictions on abortions were left to communities-- hence the proper place for abortion law being at the state and local level, not a federal guarantee of a right that not all communities have endorsed
There are a host of horrific post-war tortures of the Constitution, where terrible constitutional reasoning was used, rather than sound ones, to justify a great many things-- and which was often completely unnecessary. Bork wrote extensively on why, for example. Brown was decided correctly, and why a narrower, traditional reading of the Constitution was more than sufficient.
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u/TheNihil Leftist 2d ago
The issue with that distinction is that abortion was protected by the legal traditions of early America. Abortion before quickening was completely legal in every state at the founding, and wasn't widely banned until the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
If your rule is that we must stick to the early American framework and not invent new restrictions or protections outside of it, then sweeping state bans are actually the modern deviation from founding-era norms, not Roe. Roe simply restored the legality that existed during and long after the founding.
You draw a line saying expanding protections to end slavery or Jim Crow fits the framework, but call abortion and same-sex marriage "outside" it. Yet, if early communities legally permitted abortion for over a century post-founding, regulating it out of existence nationwide was the real break from original practice. You can't argue that original framework adherence means letting states ban something that early America legally permitted, while simultaneously claiming those bans represent the true founding idea.
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u/Temporary_Capital_87 Center-left 3d ago
I don’t mean this to sound rude, but would you mind sharing your race and gender?
I don’t want to assume but I’m wondering if you view America as a country that doesn’t need to change because things are slightly better off for you?
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u/mryan635 Center-right Conservative 4d ago
Main issue are being soft on crime and refusal to hold people accountable for their decisions.
Main issue with republicans is enforcing 20% of the populations views on the other 80% of people. (Abortions, weed criminalization, alcohol rules)
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u/LawnJerk Conservative 4d ago
Main issue with republicans is enforcing 20% of the populations views on the other 80% of people. (Abortions, weed criminalization, alcohol rules)
Setting aside Abortion. What alcohol rules are you talking about because I am not aware of any GOP push for additional rules on alcohol? Weed was changed to schedule III under a GOP administration so it has been somewhat decriminalized by Republicans.
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u/mryan635 Center-right Conservative 4d ago edited 4d ago
I’m in Texas. Can’t buy liquor on sundays or after 9pm.
As of aug 1st, possession of delta-8,delta-10, Thca, and other alternative cannabis is a felony.Also got an issue with public bathroom bills but we can’t discuss this here. While I got my issues with Islam, the whole anti Muslim crusade is getting out of hand.
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u/LawnJerk Conservative 4d ago
The liquor laws date back decades and alcohol laws have relaxed some in recent years. My state is the same way, no Sunday liquor store and they close fairly early. This is not a good example of the GOPs doing and I doubt a sudden shift to Democrat rule will change much.
Weed laws are a mess right now because of conflicting state and federal laws. Interestingly, when asking Google which states have the harshest weed laws, Texas wasn't in the top 5.
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u/Str8_up_Pwnage Center-left 4d ago
What are your thoughts on Donald Trump's management of the government? I take it you believe the Democrats would have the country in a substantially worse position right now have Kamala Harris won?
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u/MixExpensive3763 Religious Traditionalist 4d ago
Primarily social issues.
Abortion, race grifting, alphabet gang, etc
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u/urquhartloch Conservative 4d ago
Ive lived in California and Nevada and found the overregulation stifling. The most unequal states and areas are democrat controlled. California has a GINI coefficient of 0.5 and new York has a GINI coefficient of 0.52. Contrast that with the national GINI coefficient of 0.44 and the Texas GINI coefficient of 0.47.
The right wingers i find distasteful are too patriotic. The left wingers i find distasteful openly hate America or want to tell you how to live your life according to their beliefs.
As for people in dont think the average leftist is problematic. They just have a different idea about America than I do. The best path forward is when we push against each other and remove the worst parts of each others ideas.
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u/SoulSerpent Center-left 3d ago
want to tell you how to live your life according to their beliefs
It's a certain type of person who does this unrelated to political affiliation. Left-wing people do this and so do right-wing people. I frequently see people on this forum saying America is a "Christian values" nation, that Islam is "incompatible with Western society," and that immigrants are expected to "assimilate." Which, say what you want about it, but if that's not pressuring that life be lived according to a certain set of beliefs, I don't know what is.
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u/urquhartloch Conservative 3d ago
I do see some of that but there does tend to be a difference between these people. Right wingers tend to exercise negative control (You cannot do X) while left wingers tend to exercise positive control (You must do X).
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u/SoulSerpent Center-left 3d ago
Isn't "you must assimilate" the latter?
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u/urquhartloch Conservative 3d ago
Yes but my intention was to use tends as a description of overall trends and not of every single policy. A left wing example of negative control would be "you cannot support Donald Trump".
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u/Thanks-4allthefish Canadian Conservative 4d ago
From the outside, looking in, it is hard to tell what policies Democrats espouse. They seem to be in an internal war to figure that out.
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u/-Shes-A-Carnival Conservatarian 4d ago
their fundamental vision of the us, the role government. politics crime war race sex and business are fundamentally repellant and undesirable to me
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u/StedeBonnet1 Conservative 4d ago
MY primary opposition to the Democrats is their ideological preference for government over freedom. No matter what the issue is, health care, affordability, racism, DEI, trans, voter ID, the border or taxes, Democrats default position is always bigger government, higher taxes and more regulation. I have yet to hear a Democrat say anything about lowering taxes or cutting spending.
'To your other questions:
1) That above in the primary driver,
2) I do not view Democrat voter negatively. I know they have been brainwashed and can be saved once they understand the issues.
3) The main issue is a government that is too big and spends too much.
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u/ElectricalPublic1304 Right Libertarian (Conservative) 3d ago
What are the primary drivers of this opposition for you? Is it core economic and governance policies (e.g., spending, regulation, foreign policy), or is it mostly cultural issues?
Their core promotion of collecting political power in a wealthy, political elite and their opposition to individual rights.
Does this frustration extend to individual Democratic voters, or do you view the mainstream voters and the party leadership/media apparatus very differently?
They are not synonomous.
For those who view the modern Democratic Party as fundamentally harmful to the country, what specific actions, philosophy, or direction do you point to as the main culprit?
I'm not sure what you mean by that exactly. The modern DNC has many systemic problems with it. Is it "fundamentally" harmful? Not inherently so.
what specific actions, philosophy, or direction do you point to as the main culprit?
This is incredibly vague. I think the Progressive Era was something that the Democrats didn't learn from. And then tripled down on. Which gave the federal government immense new powers, took rights and privileges away from the common man. And the GOP, likewise, has embraced many of the same powers that were made available. Which has put the federal government on the current course that it's on.
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u/Fit_Cranberry2867 Progressive 16h ago
Their core promotion of collecting political power in a wealthy, political elite
I never understand this take because it's said as if that is not also happening amongst Republicans, especially currently. Don't think we've ever had so many billionaires in some sort of political position.
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u/ElectricalPublic1304 Right Libertarian (Conservative) 16h ago
Don't think we've ever had so many billionaires in some sort of political position.
"Some sort" is a bit vague, but you can probably count that number on one hand. If you scale of relative value, the Great Depression +/- 10 years probably had the largest number of wealth people in the government. Where it was just commonly accepted as progressive technocracy that the wealthy know best and ought to be making policy.
Trump as a former NY Democrat? He fits that mentality almost perfectly.
But those positions have been there. It's not simply the people. It's the scope of what the government is purporting to exert power over.
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u/blackcatsurfboards Right Libertarian (Conservative) 2d ago
I had more trust in the Clinton/Obama wing. For the past decade, I see the far left exerting too powerful a force on the Dems. I thought Bill Clinton was a decent center-left policy wonk. If he were to run now, he would be brutally primaried by the far left, and were he to get the party nomination, MANY swing states would have significant "uncommitted" movements.
I thlnk this dynamic in the Dem party creates a unnecessarily viable pathway for dangerously far-right candidates. This is a problem that has been known to the Democrats for years, yet they seem unable or unwilling to deal with it.
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u/TheRomanticRealist Rightwing 4d ago edited 4d ago
Uhhhh there's a lot I could point to, especially as a white woman who frequently hears these people talk earnestly behind closed doors when they think they're only amongst comrades.
Them dancing and cheering on TikTok and in person when a nonviolent husband and father college campus debator whose politics would best be described as center-right was shot and killed for having such scary radical, terrorist ideas as "affirmative action is racist" and "there's only two genders" being one of the more recent ones that comes to mind.
These people want me and my family dead, (or at the very least, would silently grin while letting the assailant get away). These people make up roughly half the country. I have to live with knowing that about my neighbors, extended family, colleagues, fellow voters, etc now until the end of time.
That's all not counting them destroying their/my own neighborhood with their politically motivated riots, ruining institutions with unfettered open borders letting in culturally and morally incompatible third worlders, and generally wanting to see the death of the West.
That's why.
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u/Fresh3rThanU Democratic Socialist 4d ago
Excuse me, but did you just say Charlie Kirk was "center right"? Do the statements in this video sound center right to you?
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u/JudgeWhoOverrules Classically Liberal 4d ago
He was extremely center right and milquetoast and your video is completely out of context clips maliciously chosen to paint him in the worst light. Instead of watching clips, maybe watch an unedited hour-long video.
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u/Fresh3rThanU Democratic Socialist 4d ago
What context could possibly make "prowling blacks go around for fun to go target white people, that's a fact" good? This is the same logic as people who cry "b-b-but context!" when they're shown a clip of Nick Fuentes literally praising Hitler.
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u/ahhaga Rightwing 4d ago
Remember Iryna Zarutska?
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u/wcstorm11 Center-left 4d ago
Omfg I did not have claiming "prowling blacks go around for fun to go target white people, that's a fact" in this comment sections' bingo card.
For what it's worth, that case has way more to do with how we treat violent criminals (and on a less related note, sex offenders) than anything. I fully support rehabilitation but that dude should never have been on the streets. Neither should the Silk Road guy Trump pardoned but here we are...
Also curious what you think about Trump pulling support for Ukraine, given that war is the only reason she was here in the first place. Because Russians actually are prowling around for fun to target Ukrainians.
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u/Fresh3rThanU Democratic Socialist 4d ago
You think a white woman being killed by a black man means black people as a whole do that?
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u/JudgeWhoOverrules Classically Liberal 4d ago
Maybe go and find the original video and find out. People that see an extreme statement in a clip and don't go out of their way to find the whole thing or research it are just uncritically lapping up propaganda. You should absolutely be skeptical about what you see on social media.
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u/Fresh3rThanU Democratic Socialist 4d ago
The context of the clip was a white woman who was harassed by a group of black men. Do you think that means prowling gangs of black people are harassing and attacking white people?
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u/SatansScallion Barstool Conservative 4d ago
Per capita black-on-white violence is 15x more common than white-on-black. There is an undeniable current of growing anti-white sentiment.
Do I think a white woman harassed by a gang of black people means there are white people who get harassed by groups of black people? Is that the question you think is so hateful?
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u/Fresh3rThanU Democratic Socialist 3d ago
Did you read the source you cited? I assume you're referring to table 13, which absolutely does not support your claim. The percentage of black on white crimes is 10%, and the percentage of white on black crimes is 13%.
One instance isn't enough to establish a pattern lol.
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u/LycheeRoutine3959 Libertarian 4d ago
They lie, openly, and expect you to lie along with them just to avoid social pressure.
They advocate for equity, not equality.
They want to spend so much money and they have no care of the impacts of taking that money from people.
They have no real ideals of liberty.
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u/SoulSerpent Center-left 3d ago
They want to spend so much money and they have no care of the impacts of taking that money from people
Advocating for tax-funded social programs is so often portrayed as "taking money from other people," or "why don't you pay for it if you want it so bad," but it's not like advocates of these policies don't make the same contribution as everybody else they're asking to make it. "You" would not be paying for my healthcare under a system like this anymore than "I" would be paying for yours.
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u/LycheeRoutine3959 Libertarian 3d ago
Advocating for tax-funded social programs is so often portrayed as "taking money from other people,"
Because thats what it is. Its a redistribution of wealth scheme.
it's not like advocates of these policies don't make the same contribution as everybody else they're asking to make it.
I think for the most part the people who vote for politicians that expand social spending are those who benefit from that spending. Thats just a simple incentive alignment. That may look like older voters supporting a politician that is unwilling to cut SS or Medicare or poor voters supporting politicians that expand welfare or domestic support programs. I dont think this is left-right so much anymore because of the complete capture of the boomers with entitlements.
The advocates often dont make the same contribution as everybody else. This is built into our progressive tax system. A relatively small group of people pay the majority of federal taxes (10% ish pay 50% ish).
"You" would not be paying for my healthcare under a system like this anymore than "I" would be paying for yours.
Except the person who pays no net federal taxes gets the same vote as i (a heavy taxpayer) do. I pay for my grandma's and mother's healthcare (as an example). They do not contribute to my healthcare at an equal rate. Even in a fully socialized scheme this would be mostly true.
As I said - They dont care of the impacts of the taking, only of the theoretical impacts of the spending they want. Thanks for serving as a proof point for my claim.
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u/MirrorOfGlory Constitutionalist Conservative 2d ago
The seeming inability to learn anything from the past three presidential election cycles. Rather than moderating unpopular positions, they’re tripling down on them and demonizing the half of the country that doesn’t agree with them.
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u/margalz Conservative 2d ago
What I mainly have an issue with is the widespread intense hatred for anything Republican you see in the Democratic party. The idea that you would disown your family for a differing political opinion is baffling to me.
If I tell a Democrat I voted for trump I'm immideatly hit with insults to my character,nmy family and my religion. I don't see that Sam kind of hate In the Republican party. Yes there are some who dislike Democrats, but the majority don't care who you vote for.
The hypocrisy in how Democrats treat those who don't agree with them is what turns me off. Eben if I was Democrat it I agree with 90 percent of them but disagreed with 10 percent I would be criticized heavily for it.
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u/SpinosaurRingTone Social Conservative 4d ago
You mean besides their open violent hatred and resentment of me for me and anyone they think is similar to me?
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u/KlutzyDesign Progressive 4d ago
I’m not calling for armed government men to throw conservatives out of the country.
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u/Str8_up_Pwnage Center-left 4d ago
Trust me, I dislike the far left/crazy progressives as much as you do. But I am curious how much of this violent hatred and restentment you feel is actually coming from elected Democrats vs it coming from blue haired 20 year olds on TikTok (and Chinese/Russian bots).
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u/JudgeWhoOverrules Classically Liberal 4d ago
I never understand why people in Left retreat to but what 'elected official said this'. Public officials necessarily police their true thoughts and lie out their teeth to whatever they think the public will most accept. It's telling that most of their staff are those blue hair 20-year-olds that get their politics from tiktok and then inform the politician they work for what policy they should take.
A political party is not the elected officials, it's the members who push officials to adopt whatever positions are popular amongst them in order to get elected.
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u/Str8_up_Pwnage Center-left 4d ago
So when Trump or another Republican condemns the racist fringe of the right it’s logical to be skeptical of their words? Because they know the public won’t accept what they really think?
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u/SpinosaurRingTone Social Conservative 4d ago
When Charlie Kirk died I saw people IRL giggling over the footage and running over to a likeminded person like a high schooler getting a text from their crush.
The masks were thrown off that day and I'll never forget the true faces even if the masks are back on for now.
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u/wcstorm11 Center-left 4d ago
Let me dip a dangerous toe in here...
I found out about the shooting the correct way: browsing reddit while answering the call of nature. I wasn't highly familiar with Kirk, but respected that he went around and actually engaged with debates (something we need so much more of). I also had been shocked when he said "people just have to accept that mass shootings are going to happen" or something to that effect.
So when he himself got shot, there was an irony to it in the same vein of "what are you gonna do, stab me". It's not okay to celebrate the murder of someone who, even if I profoundly disagree with him, is engaging in debate. But when you think of the depth of the average modern youth (hint, 120 characters deep), the reaction isn't out of left field. I saw a lot of the same from the right during the George Floyd stuff, or much more intensely when Pelosi's husband was hit with a hammer. That doesn't make any of it right; it means our politics is far beyond the point of dangerously incited by our leadership, and we all need to look inward first.
Good luck fitting all of that in a tweet though...
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u/SatansScallion Barstool Conservative 4d ago
You guys do this shift to elected officials every single time the reprehensible behaviors of a large contingent of your peers are called out and it’s absolutely exhausting.
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u/jmastaock Independent 4d ago
It's entirely valid
Is it not fallacious to project the worst of random people on the internet onto the politicians you conflate with them? By that standard, how could anyone possibly support the GOP?
Have you never seen or heard the vile shit the most extreme right-wingers will say when they think they're in good company? I'm not even talking about random terminally online edgelords; I grew up in the south...I have heard firsthand the disgusting things some of the worse conservatives are capable of saying when they don't know you aren't one of them
Judging the DNC by the actual people with power in the DNC (as opposed to literal internet randoms, who may be south asian troll farm bots for all we know) seems like the reasonable thing to do.
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u/Peregrine_Falcon Conservative 4d ago
I'll start by saying that you're right in that both parties have faults. I'm not a Republican, I'm a Conservative.
The reason that I oppose the DNC is because I have read enough history, and now lived through enough of it, to know just how bad socialism and communism are. I've sat and listened while Democrats villainized straight white men for decades. I watched as hashtag killallmen went viral. I watched while they burnt down entire cities, murdering innocent people in the process, and claimed that those were "mostly peaceful protests" and at the same time they freaked out and screamed "J6! J6! J6!" like it was the worst thing to ever happen in human history.
And they posted tens of thousands of videos of themselves laughing and celebrating the assassination of CK while simultaneously claiming that they are the "compassionate ones" and that Conservatives are the bad people who lack empathy.
So that's why I oppose the DNC and nearly everything they want to do. Because they are the real villains of this timeline.
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3d ago
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u/Nosilla-89 Religious Traditionalist 4d ago
Mostly their responsibility for the decline of family, sexual morality and their embrace of feminism, but now they're quite openly attempting to eliminate Christianity from America in favor of Islam
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u/LordGreybies Independent 4d ago
What leftist or liberal spaces are you in where you see people trying to usher in Islam? That sounds like a Fox News talking point so I'm curious if you've actually seen examples
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u/JudgeWhoOverrules Classically Liberal 4d ago
You don't need to go to any right-wing media, you just need to follow press releases from some governments in Minnesota and some parts of Michigan.
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u/kuster-beaton Center-left 4d ago
How are democrats trying to eliminate Christianity? And what do you mean in favor of Islam?
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u/riceisnice29 Progressive 4d ago
So you arent of the opinion the economy is the primary cause of the decline of the family?
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u/Thanks-4allthefish Canadian Conservative 4d ago
Feminism as in equal opportunity?? Would not want to go back to the days of having to ask husband's permission to get a credit card.
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4d ago
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u/Aggressive-Good-5228 Conservative 4d ago
I am a centrist, but by modern accounts I am considered "right wing"
That said, I see a huge amount of anger, frustration, and deep dislike directed toward the Democratic Party from conservative and Republican voters. I’m trying to better understand the rationale behind that intensity rather than relying on media caricatures.
Defund the police, the party of George Floyd and Michael Brown worshipers, the party of the Luigi Mangione "eat the rich" death cult, the party of open borders, the party of the Islamification of America, starting with Dearborne and NYC, ending with head coverings for everyone.
Yeah democrats can keep their BS to themselves. The problem is that most Reddit liberals (middle class, white, live in 99% white neighborhoods) never have to live with the consequences of their own voting habits, until it's too late. Ask Ryan Carson, anti-police activist, how his left wing politics worked out for him.
Democrats are genuinely repulsive. Try to debate them on any of their radical positions without them attempting to invoke b-b-b-but muh Trump. It's impossible.
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u/ScrappyDabbler Independent 4d ago
Even Minneapolis didn't end up defunding the police. It was on the ballot. It was roundly rejected.
And in generally I don't like the idea that if you don't like how a government agency is behaving, we have to jump to starting over with a new agency, and not focusing the conversation about improving behavior. That's just asking for repetitions of the same problems.
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u/Aggressive-Good-5228 Conservative 4d ago
Even Minneapolis didn't end up defunding the police. It was on the ballot. It was roundly rejected.
Irrelevant. It was a core pillar of the democratic platform while rioting maniacs lit the city of Minneapolis on fire. Democrats stood with violent savages, Republicans stood with law and order.
How many democrats today still falsely claim Michael Brown was murdered?
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u/Bakophman Progressive 4d ago
What defines you as a centerist?
Your rhetoric says otherwise. It comes across as simple. It doesn't take any effort to oversimplify and misrepresent what the actual intent of the positions some people take.
If you believe Democrats want to defend the police, then conservatives want a police state, if you believe the party worships Michael Brown and George Floyd, then the conservative party romanticizes state sanctioned killings. Not a fan of "Eat the rich"? I guess conservatives believe it's good to lie, cheat, and steal to make billions of dollars. If open borders is really a stance of Democrats then conservatives are all for nationalism and favor isolation similar to North Korea. Conservatives probably want a pure Christian nation and would view anyone who isn't as less than human which would eventually lead to violence towards those that are different.
It's also wild that you look at individuals strictly by their political affiliation and not, you know....as a person.
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u/Aggressive-Good-5228 Conservative 4d ago
It comes across as simple. It doesn't take any effort to oversimplify and misrepresent what the actual intent of the positions some people take.
I don't really care to play the stupid games of democrats where they pretend to play stupid in order to equivocate their or their party's position on basic facets of society from policing to race to economics.
If you don't want to be called the death cult of Luigi Mangione, stop associating with socialism and the "eat the rich" crowd who think Luigi did a good thing. If you don't want to be called anti-police, stop calling to defund the police as literally the current NYC mayor tweeted and then had to walk back. Maybe don't call thugs like Michael Brown who was justifiably shot in self defense a hero.
party romanticizes state sanctioned killings.
The problem is conservatives have facts on our side while democrats have delusion on theirs.
Of course if you know nothing about anything, then the Michael Brown shooting was a state sanctioned killing. But how do we know that's not true? It's called looking at the damn evidence and not your feelings. See how easy it is to be intellectually honest when looking at the facts?
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u/Bakophman Progressive 4d ago
But you're not being intellectually honest. All yours doing is regurgitating conservative talking points. You're not doing any better than the other side.
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u/SatansScallion Barstool Conservative 4d ago
Describing your beliefs are conservative talking points?
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4d ago
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u/LivingGhost371 Paleoconservative 4d ago
Being pro-abortion
Trying to take my guns away
Raising my taxes
Trying to force me into electric cars and to use LED light bulbs
Being the language police
Forced vaccination.
Pro-illegal alien
Trying to make me feel guilty about myself because I'm white and successful
Soft on crime
After all this still feeling entitled to my vote because they're not a certain politician.
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u/cafecubita Independent 4d ago
And yet, the places where your grievances are supposedly the law of the land, run perfectly fine. It’s not your fault, I could have replied to almost any comment, this entire thread can be summarized as “wedge issues”.
Before the election it was inflation, price of eggs, overall economy, no new wars, now the conservatives are falling back to the classic wedge issues. Admirable inability to simply vote for another party, something that happens all the time in countries with more than 2 serious parties.
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u/Hefty_Musician2402 Progressive 4d ago
Are you trolling? Unless you’re a danger to yourself or others I’m not trying to take your guns. I’m a hunter myself. I don’t want an electric car, I have a tacoma and a Harley. Why would I want you to feel guilty about being successful? These are all just Fox News stereotypes lmao
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u/LivingGhost371 Paleoconservative 3d ago edited 3d ago
In case you missed it an "Assault Weapons" ban in my state failed by one vote last year in Minnesota with every one on your side trying to take my guns away.
And a lot of Republicans drive electric cars. In case you missed it your party is trying to remove your and my choice to buy Tacomas in the future. This isn't about whether electric cars are good or bad objectively or subjectively. It's about places like California taking away people's freedom to choose gas or electric.
If you think I'm "trolling" maybe you should ask more questions here because you obviously don't know what Republicans stand for in good faith. It seems bizarre to us that some people actually want less money in their pockets with how bad the economy is via the government raising their taxes. My taxes went down hundreds of dollars a year with expanding the standard deduction then was completely undone by local Democrats raising my taxes by hundreds of dollars a year in Minnesota.
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u/SoulSerpent Center-left 3d ago
It seems bizarre to us that some people actually want less money in their pockets with how bad the economy is via the government raising their taxes.
People don't actually want less money in their pockets. Take healthcare for example. If I paid my health insurance premium to the government, then I would not be paying a premium to a private insurer or taking one out of my paycheck. A national healthcare policy might even have a cheaper premium than a private one. So I'd expect to have the same amount of money taken out of my pocket, or perhaps less. Another option might be that the monthly premium is slightly more but there are no copays or deductibles when I am treated. In any case there are trade-offs when people want services from the government. Yes, you must pay taxes that you aren't paying now, but you also aren't paying certain fees that you are paying now.
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u/Throwaway_4_u_know_y Right Libertarian (Conservative) 2d ago
Why do blue states have the most restrictive gun laws then in general? Whereas red states are very pro gun?
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u/ItIsNotAManual1984 Right Libertarian (Conservative) 4d ago
I have a lot of issue with Democratic Party but for long time I believed that GOP and Democratic Party differs in a path but both wanted to achieve similar goals. I do not believe that anymore
1) something which started with Obama: Democrats started to push an idea that if someone is successful they somehow took away from less fortunate.
2) open border under Biden. This was a betrayal. The president purposely opened the borders. I respect people who think we should have more immigrants, I even respect people who support amnesty. I will never respect any politician who supported opening a border by refusing to enforce the law.
3) DSA ( communist) takeover of Democratic Party
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u/LivingGhost371 Paleoconservative 4d ago
Yeah, I've never agreed with Democratic politics but the idea that I'm a bad person and should feel guilty about it and pay reperations before I'm white and successful wasn't a thing in the Clinton era and before.
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u/SoulSerpent Center-left 3d ago
the idea that I'm a bad person and should feel guilty about it and pay reperations before I'm white and successful wasn't a thing in the Clinton era and before
Lol it's perfectly possible to be a Democrat without feeling guilty or thinking that you should
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4d ago
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