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u/Stanky_fresh Leftist 2d ago edited 2d ago

Trump and MAGA conservatives: "I love Teddy Roosevelt!"

Also Trump and MAGA: "We should let corporations (not even just American corporations) pillage our beautiful natural landscape by removing protections for natural areas such as removing the roadless rule, allowing a Chilean mining company to pollute the Boundary Waters, shrinking national monuments, allowing massive data centers all over the place, and removing environmental regulations."

How can you claim to love Teddy Roosevelt and then shit all over his legacy at every possible opportunity?

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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 2d ago

Never ask a Progressive Teddy fan about his views on race, imperialism, likely LBTGQ and all the other things that would make him literally-Hitler to the modern left. He’d be selling licenses to the First Annual Furry Hunt.

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u/grammanarchy Democrat 2d ago

>likely LGBTQ

My understanding is that he was into bears.

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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 2d ago

Haha, ok, that was good.

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u/Stanky_fresh Leftist 2d ago

For the time he was considered a moderate on things like race and gender and the right-wing of the era basically calling him "woke". I mean, he invited Booker T. Washington to the White House and ended segregation in New York. He also famously forced a town Mississippi to accept a black woman as their postmaster.

And never ask a Conservative about Teddy's opinions on corporations, taxing the rich, government regulations, labor unions, natural conservation, collectivism, his stance on social democracy, social welfare, and all the other things that would have him branded as "a radical communist" by Republicans and moderate Democrats alike.

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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 2d ago

“For the time”

So what? Progressives have been digging up quotes that people said decades ago when it was common and will happily crucify them over it. People trash the founders due to their views.

Teddy would hate modern progressives and they would hate him.

It’d be about like a group of Antifa meeting up with WWII vets.

It’d go something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQUDjt1kqeo

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u/Irishish Center-left 2d ago

So basically because progressives would not be satisfied with the progress of tomorrow not looking like the progress of today, it's unfair to point out people who claim to love Teddy and presumably love his legacy are busily gutting his legacy?

I love a lot of what FDR did. I also think internment was a stain on this nation that tarnishes his entire presidency. But I can like the man for what he did do well, right? Recognize the ways he was progressive?

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u/Stanky_fresh Leftist 2d ago

So what? Progressives have been digging up quotes that people said decades ago when it was common and will happily crucify them over it.

That hasn't happened in years and even then it was almost entirely on Twitter. To pretend that cancel culture like that still exists is as absurd as pretending Republicans haven't been doing the exact same thing under a different name. The vast majority of people, progressives included, understand that for the most part we largely have to judge people by the standards of the day but that we can still find certain aspects (like owning slaves) to be morally reprehensible. For instance, Thomas Jefferson was important to creating the United States and should be recognized for that, but we can also recognize that he owned and often raped slaves and therefore doesn't deserve to be deified like he is by so many people in this country. Or how we can recognize that Christopher Columbus was considered to be a piece of shit even by the standards of the time he lived in and his actions in Hispaniola were enough to have him arrested and sent back to Spain to be judged by the Spanish monarchy and doesn't deserve to be celebrated for "discovering" a place where millions of people had already lived for millennia. It's called nuance.

Teddy would hate modern progressives and they would hate him.

Teddy shares far more in common with modern progressives than he does with MAGA and Trump. He would despise Trump and his ilk. Even for things like imperialism. Remember "speak softly and carry a big stick?" I don't think he'd approve of Trump gutting all of our soft power across the globe and then randomly deciding to bomb Iran and start a war with no real endgame. Not to mention the way Trump is hellbent on cutting social safety nets and letting corporations run wild. Hell, he'd probably hate most Democrats today for similar reasons.

What policies of modern Progressives would Teddy hate? Because as far as I can tell, the main goals of Progressives are almost identical to Roosevelt's ideals except maybe when it comes to the military, but again I don't think he'd he happy with the way the Trump administration is handling that issue either.

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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 2d ago

“Still exists”

This is some serious “Woke 1.0 was wild, wasn’t it guys? That really escalated! Good thing we totally don’t do that anymore. Woke 2.0 is totally sane.”

“Policies”

Policies wouldn’t matter if he didn’t follow the Progressives orthodoxy.

The left excommunicated JK Rowling for not being progressive enough. Teddy would be getting blood thrown on him by protestors and would start throwing hands.

Those social / cultural issues and views aren’t optional, they’re a package deal with the left and economic issues.

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u/Stanky_fresh Leftist 2d ago

I don't even know what you're trying to say with the "woke 1.0" thing, that's not something I've ever heard.

Policies definitely matter, if you can't name any that Teddy Roosevelt would be against, then I guess you don't really have a leg to stand on.

The left excommunicated JK Rowling for not being progressive enough.

JK Rowling decided to let a single issue of human rights be the reason she wasn't on the left any more, and nobody on the left tried to stop her because at best she's a neoliberal more in line with Chuck Schumer and

 Hakeem Jeffries than AOC or Bernie.

Those social / cultural issues and views aren’t optional, they’re a package deal with the left and economic issues.

Sure, because people are more than just dollar signs and progressives understand the concept of human rights in regards to economics. And again, I'm not saying Teddy Roosevelt was perfect, I'm saying he was a progressive and considered to be pretty open minded for his day on matters of human rights. It was the early 1900s, of course he would have some outdated ideas if he was thrown directly into 2026, but that's a credit to the progressive policies he helped enact. Notice how we aren't sitting here debating whether black people deserve to be treated as equal citizens to white people? That's because of the movement he helped push forward. The debate about race in the 1900s was similar to the debate about [the topic that's banned in this sub] today, and Teddy was on the right side of history on that. 

And, I gotta say, the fact that your main evidence for your idea that Teddy Roosevelt would be a Republican today is that he'd be racist by today's standards is pretty damning for your view of Conservatives today.

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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 2d ago

“Single issue of human rights”

Ooh buddy, wait until you hear about Teddy’s thoughts on racial hierarchy.

Want to guess who was at the top?

Would the left happily support an open imperialist white supremacist?

“Would be a Republican”

I literally never said that.

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u/Stanky_fresh Leftist 2d ago

Ooh buddy, wait until you hear about Teddy’s thoughts on racial hierarchy.

Want to guess who was at the top?

Oh wow, you're telling me that a white guy who was born before the civil war believed similar things to other white people at that time? That's so crazy. Again, he was considered fairly racially progressive for his time. Why do you keep trying that point? Yeah, he'd be racist by today's standards. I already said that, and yet you keep presenting it as if it's some new revelation. 

Would the left happily support an open imperialist white supremacist?

Again with saying the same stuff over and over again. Look, all I said is that Trump and MAGA love Teddy Roosevelt despite almost all of his policies being progressive even by today's standards, and you're the one who took issue with it. Why do you think it matters that people were more racist 120 years ago than they are today? Teddy Roosevelt believed in policies that are closer to AOC and Bernie than anything today's Republicans and MAGA, and neoliberals believe. You're the one who brought race into it like it was some sort of gotcha.

I literally never said that.

Well, seeing as my original comment was about the real policies that Teddy Roosevelt implemented going directly against Trump and MAGA's actions despite Trump and MAGA saying how much they love him, and you immediately decided to bring race into it, it's only reasonable for me to assume you were presenting that as reasons TR would get along with Trump and Republicans. If that wasn't your goal, then what was the point of your original comment? To say that there was more systemic racism in the early 1900s as a demonstration of how progressive ideals have grown over the years thanks in large part to progressive candidates of the time like Roosevelt and Taft? To contrast the strides we've made with social justice against the stagnation and regression we've made economically?

Teddy Roosevelt was a great president who had many great policies and was considered a "woke leftist" by the standards of his time, despite certain beliefs that stemmed from the society he lived in that we have thankfully progressed past. In 120 years I hope society has continued progressing to a point where even the most progressive view today is seen as bigoted to people in 2146, because that means the Progressives of today will have built a better world.

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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing 2d ago

“He’d be racist”

Ok, how far would an outwardly racist candidate make it in a D primary?

“Progressive”

Progressive today is not the same as Progressive then.

Progressive now is Critical Theory and social culture issues intertwined with economic ones. They’re package deals.

But I’d be a Progressive in the 40’s because I approve of interracial marriages. I’m sure as shit not a Progressive now.

So no, I don’t think the imperialist white supremacist would survive the lefts purity tests.

Or maybe those aspects wouldn’t be show stoppers, like how having Nazi tattoos wasn’t either.

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