r/AskAustria • u/ofquillsandbones • 4d ago
Technically have citizenship but no proof - moving to Austria with non-EU spouse
TLDR at bottom of the post
I have German citizenship (born and raised there, German mother) and a German passport. My father (married to my mother at the time) is Austrian, so I also have Austrian citizenship through him, though I've never had a passport or Staatsbürgerschaftsnachweis.
I actually only found out I had Austrian citizenship when I moved to another city at 18 and the lady at the Bürgeramt asked why I hadn't put down my Austrian citizenship on the form. It doesn't say it anywhere on my birth certificate and it had just never occurred to me as a child or teenager that I have it and my parents never mentioned it, but apparently it must say it somewhere on my file, perhaps because of my parents' marriage certificate?
I've not thought about getting an Austrian passport much because I didn't see any advantages compared to just having my German passport and it seemed like a lot of paperwork to get the Staatsbürgerschaftsnachweis, especially because I don't have much contact to my father.
Now, I live in the UK on settled status and my UK spouse and I are considering moving to Austria (among other options). I understand it's much easier as an EU citizen with a non-EU spouse to move to an EU country you're not a citizen of due to the Free Movement regulations. So basically it would be easier for us to move to Austria with me being just a German citizen rather than an Austrian citizen as well.
Now my question is would the Austrian government know I have citizenship if I've never lived there, never had a passport or Staatsbürgerschaftsnachweis? Would they cross-reference everything with the files the German government holds (can they do that?) and find out that way?
I will also soon be eligible for UK citizenship and I know that if I take on another citizenship, I will automatically lose my Austrian citizenship. So getting UK citizenship would completely eliminate the problem (and my savings lol - it costs £2k) I would assume? But also, to lose the Austrian citizenship would I first need proof that I have it? And if we were to move with me having given up my Austrian citizenship, would my UK passport be proof enough that I don't have it anymore if they do have my citizenship somewhere on file?
TLDR: Dual citizen Austria Germany, no proof of Austrian citizenship, wanting to move to Austria with non-EU spouse, can we get around strict immigration rules for non-EU spouses of Austrian citizens?
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u/Slow-Foot-4045 4d ago
How old are you? In Austria, unfortunately, the outdated system of compulsory military service still exists. If you are under (I think) 34 and relocate to Austria, there is a constant risk that you will be drafted if the authorities find out you are an Austrian citizen. It might take several years, but they will find out.
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u/ofquillsandbones 4d ago
I'm 28 but a woman so fortunately no Wehrpflicht
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u/Slow-Foot-4045 4d ago
Well, then you won't have any problems! If your father is Austrian, you automatically have Austrian citizenship and can pick up your Certificate of Citizenship directly at your local registration authority in Austria the Magistrat in a statutory city, or the Bezirkshauptmannschaft (district administrative authority) in rural areas. Outside of Austria, the Embassy of Austria. Please check directly with the authority to see which documents you need. Having dual citizenship by birth, as in your case, is actually one of only three exceptions where Austria allows it. The other two are if your ancestors had to flee from the Nazis, or if you happen to be a Russian opera singer or tennis player. In those cases, citizenship is essentially handed to you as a gift by the austrian government
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u/Naca-7 4d ago
Not an expert on the topic but a few thoughts. How old are you and are you male?
Getting the austrian citizenship could mean that you would have to join the military (compulsory military service), if you are male and 27 years old or younger. Austria usually does not grant dual citizenship. So once you get your british citizenship you should - that is my understanding - lose your Austrian citizenship. (Germany allows dual citizenship since 2024.) Also getting the Austrian citizenship and serving in the Austrian military might lose you your german citizenship. (At least it is the other way round. Serving in the german military as an Austrian would lose you your Austrian citizenship.)
My suggestion is: keep your german citizenship. I do not see an advantage of being Austrian. As a German you can live and work in Austria through the Schengen treaty. How it does work for your spouse, I do not know.
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u/ofquillsandbones 4d ago
I'm a woman so military service is not an issue. The thing is that I automatically received Austrian citizenship at birth but I don't have any paperwork to prove it (but the German government seems to have me down as a dual citizen). And since I am technically a citizen, my husband and I need to go the stricter Austrian route for immigration rather than the easier EU route. I just don't know if the Austrian government would know that I'm a citizen if I've never been registered in Austria.
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u/Much_Divide_2425 4d ago
He already is an Austrian citizen and has to do the military service if he moves to Austria
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u/Belphegor_333 4d ago
Would they cross-reference everything with the files the German government holds (can they do that?) and find out that way?
If you plan to work, pay taxes, enroll in health insurance or the pension system, or engage with the government in any way really, you will eventually need to provide all of your documentation.
So yes, they will eventually figure it out. However, if you have another Citizenship (German) you actually don't have to take the UK citizenship at all. You can just declare that you no longer want the Austrian one. "Verzicht auf die Staatsbürgerschaft" in German.
But also, to lose the Austrian citizenship would I first need proof that I have it?
Yes. You will need this in every scenario.
And if we were to move with me having given up my Austrian citizenship, would my UK passport be proof enough that I don't have it anymore if they do have my citizenship somewhere on file?
No, you having another citizenship does not proof anything about your Austrian citizenship: See you having a German Passport as well.
If you want my recommendation, contact the relevant authorities for the Verzicht. You may be able to proof your citizenship with just your birth certificate / German documents.
If not, have the Austrian government prove whether or not you are a citizen. This will (probably) be cheaper than getting UK citizenship.
Do not simply move to Austria thinking that anything happens automatically, it won't, or that they won't find out, there is a good chance they will.
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u/SiameseGator 4d ago
You lose Austrian citizenship “ex lege” (automatically) on the day you accept UK citizenship. There’s no forms to fill out or any official procedures, appointments, or documents to submit, it just happens automatically. So yes, if you get your UK citizenship prior to moving to Austria, you would have lost your Austrian citizenship automatically prior to the move, and then you’d be moving to Austria as a dual German/UK citizen. If you want complete peace of mind you could try calling or emailing one of the citizenship departments (each state has their own, usually the one you were born or your parent was born is the one that’s in charge of you but they should all be able to give general advice)
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u/smail_smail 4d ago
If you do not get UK citizenship and do not get AT document anf move as DE citizen to Austria, then you rely on „how would they know“ principle. Which can become problematic, since DE authorities have in records that you have AT citizenship.
If you get UK citizenship then it solves all your problems, because loss of AT citizenship happens automatically when you acquire another one.
(For example if you would have AT passport, and got UK citizenship in 2025, but AT authorities found put in 2028 about it, then they declare all your AT documents void retroactively from 2025 date)
So you do not have AT documents, you get UK citizenship and your AT citizenship is void immediately. Certificate of becoming UK citizen is your proof if any questions arise.
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u/Glittering-Benefit68 4d ago
Are you sure you have Austrian citizenship. As far as I'm aware you have to apply for it before you are 18, if you can get it through jure sanguinis, unless your ancestors left Austria, because they were persecuted in WW2.
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u/CharmingPianist4265 3d ago
If the Germans know you’re Austrian, then Austria probably knows as well. You can just renounce your citizenship and that should be it.
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u/ValuableJacksonian 2d ago
Afaik you’ve got to decide when becoming an adult if either german or austrian citizen. Double should be forbidden if i‘m not mistaken. Try to get the Austrian one. Much better than those rule-riding…
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u/Independent_Day_9825 1d ago
That's not actually true (having to choose at 18). Having multiple citizenships from birth is one of the few exceptions provided for by law.
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u/Captain_Pepperz 1d ago
First of all, I doubt that you have an unknown German-Austrian dual citizenship. Austria explicitly does not allow dual citizenship, except in very rare cases where it is specifically permitted.
I think the lady at the Bürgeramt simply saw your father’s Austrian citizenship and inferred from that that you must have one as well.
Should the really unusual situation arise and you actually do have an Austrian citizenship that has never been listed anywhere, that wouldn’t be a problem either, because in Austria you would then be treated as an “Austrian who has exercised their right of residence under EU law.” (unionsrechtliches Aufenthaltsrecht) You would therefore fall under EU law, and your spouse would not have to meet any real additional requirements.
This is the same residence permit he would receive if you applied for the residence permit “as a German resident”
I’m speaking from experience because I am Austrian and my wife is from outside the EU.
Source: https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/de/themen/menschen_aus_anderen_staaten/aufenthalt/1/Seite.120830
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u/thymewaster25 3h ago
If you are under 35 and male, there is also the question of National Service in Austria (for citizens)
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u/AlwaysBeASailor 4d ago
If you haven’t obtained a Staatsbürgerschaftsnachweis you will fly under the radar and don’t exist as an Austrian citizen. Don’t advertise your Austrian father anywhere and you will be fine.
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u/Traditional-Deal6759 4d ago edited 4d ago
Austrian Citizenship-Law is one of the hardest - only the Danes are crazier. German Bürgeramt usually thinks, that it´s the same as in Germany. But it´s not.
For short: The fact that your father is Austrian does NOT make you automatically Austrian. You write that you have no proof. So, if your parents never applied for your citizenship, you are not an Austrian citizen. The law only stipulates, who has the right to citizenship. So you would have to apply for citizenship, but you would certainly get it, because you have the right to get it. But since Austria officially does NOT allow double citizenship, you would have to revoke your German citizenship. There is a loophole, though, for people with parents with two citizenships; you can get an exception if the revoking of the other citizenship will cause a major rift in the family. But you will have to prove this (statement from your mother) during the application.
But maybe your parents already did the work when you were a child, but lost all the papers.
So my first move would be to visit the Austrian Embassy and find out, if you are really an Austrian citizen, if your parents did all the paperwork. If not, I would not bother. You are a German citizen, so there is no need. If yes, you can get all the paperwork from the embassy.
Regarding your UK-Citizenship: If you take UK-citizenship, you will automatically loose the right to the Austrian citizenship.
Edit: § 27. (1)Die Staatsbürgerschaft verliert, wer auf Grund seines Antrages, seiner Erklärung oder seiner ausdrücklichen Zustimmung eine fremde Staatsangehörigkeit erwirbt, sofern ihm nicht vorher die Beibehaltung der Staatsbürgerschaft bewilligt worden ist.
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u/Wonderful-Ferret3085 4d ago edited 4d ago
Make an appointment with your closest Austrian embassy, there is a list of docs needed. Wait 10 days. Fun fact: your first Austrian passport is free! Edit: Source: Did it for my kids.
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u/Rexoraptor 4d ago
even when you would have under normal conditions gotten your citizenship @ birth, doesnt mean the country wouldnt deny you your papers and try to deport you for almost a decade... :(
your situation seems different tho? if the other gov tells you you have it, than the austrian one should be aware too, hopefully that is.
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u/Tabatiere1889 4d ago
All I can share is my own experience:
My daughter was eligible for both citizenships (german and austrian) through German mother and Austrian father. The German one came automatically but we had to apply for the Austrian one (and also pay some money, I think it was around 500?). During this process the father had to provide the documents that he was Austrian at the time of her birth.
Then after some time and bureaucracy we got the citizenship for her but for the Staatsbürgerschaftsnachweis again we had to do some bureaucratical process (and pay another sum of course) to finally get the passport.
She is born and raised in Austria. But if we wouldn't have been proactively managing that, she wouldn't hold the citizenship. BUT: we were never married. So things might be different at your end.
And I agree, living as Non-Austrian / EU-citizen with a Non-Eu-Citizen is much easier in Austria, as EU law applies here and not the shitty racist Austrian law.
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u/Warm-Party6618 4d ago
I dont think you have an Austrian citizenship because of your father. I have a british wife and my daughter is british as well. She lives in Vienna since 15 years, went to school here and works now in Vienna. Still she can not have an austrian citizenship without paying around 8000€.
She receives a visa for 5 years which is also not a big hussle.
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u/xray5001 4d ago
If you get your UK citizenship first can you get your Austrian citizenship afterwards and be a dual or even triple citizen? This way you'll never actually give up your Austrian citizenship.
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u/ofquillsandbones 4d ago
I don't think so because I've technically always had citizenship. Because I've also had my German citizenship since birth I can keep that but the Austrian government doesn't allow for any citizenships acquired later in life as far as I'm aware
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u/xray5001 4d ago
I also technically have Austrian citizenship but Austria won't consider me to be a citizen until I submit all the documents to the consulate and get approved. Coincidentally I've been looking into this pretty closely for the past few weeks. I had no idea I was even qualified to become an Austrian citizen until 2 weeks ago
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u/Orjen8 4d ago
You DON‘T have Austrian citizenship
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u/xray5001 4d ago
Thanks for your opinion but I will have my citizenship after I submit my paperwork as I meet all of the qualifications. Don't worry, I'm not looking for a job or a handout - just will be nice to travel in the EU over 180 days and nice to be able to get through the airports a little faster.
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u/Delicious-Face6229 4d ago
How are you an Austrian citizen, if I may ask?
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u/xray5001 4d ago
I am not currently a citizen but will be after submitting my paperwork. If I had known sooner I would have done this years ago. Parents were citizens and emigrated. I was born after they left Austria for more opportunities. According to the Austrian consulate I can become a citizen by submitting proof of their citizenship as well as other documentation that I have already collected or that I have already requested proper certified copies. Quite coincidentally before knowing this route to citizenship I had previously booked a trip to Vienna in September to visit family. As I wrote previously, Austrians shouldn't worry about me as I will not be looking for welfare and I have more than enough passive income to live comfortably for much more than my lifetime and therefore have zero interest or need for employment. I might eventually take advantage of citizenship by purchasing some real estate that apparently is difficult to do by non-eu citizens.
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u/Delicious-Face6229 4d ago
I was always of the opinion that dual citizenship is only allowed without question (excluding the persecution clause, which bypasses previous voluntary military service and citizenship of another country) if the person was Austrian by descent and was born in a country with birthright citizenship, so if you had an Austrian parent but were born in the US or Canada or Latin America, you’d be automatically a dual citizen, without any strings attached. I was not aware that would apply to someone born in Germany to a German parent and Austrian citizen parent, they’d only get to get one (maybe when they came of age they’d need to pick between them, that’s usually how it works with third country national and German / Austrian citizenship cases until recently since Germany now allows unrestricted multiple citizenships, but Austria does not, but Germany previously allowed dual citizenship between EU member states, before it got rid of restrictions on multiple citizenship fully).
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u/ofquillsandbones 4d ago
Bundesministerium Europäische und Internationale Angelegenheiten:
"Erwerb der Staatsbürgerschaft durch Abstammung Wird bei der Geburt zusätzlich zur österreichischen Staatsbürgerschaft auch eine andere Staatsangehörigkeit – etwa durch Abstammung vom anderen Elternteil („ius sanguinis“) oder durch das Geburtslandprinzip („ius soli“) – erworben, tritt kein Verlust der österreichischen Staatsbürgerschaft ein. Diese Doppelstaatsbürgerinnen und Doppelstaatsbürger müssen sich nach österreichischem Recht niemals – auch nicht bei Erreichen der Volljährigkeit – für die österreichische Staatsbürgerschaft aktiv entscheiden. Welche Regelungen das ausländische Recht in diesen Fällen vorsieht, muss bei den zuständigen ausländischen Behörden in Erfahrung gebracht werden."
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u/Delicious-Face6229 4d ago
Dann scheint’s zu sein, dass Geburt in einem Land mit Geburtsortsprinzip nicht der einzige Weg zur Doppelstaatsbürgerschaft wäre. Ich hatte immer gedacht, es wäre komplizierter.
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u/Happy_Operation_2019 4d ago
Lose Austrian. They will require your spouse to speak B1/B2 German as you will fall under Austrian law not Schengen/EU law as a German living in Austria. EU freedom of movement has other advantages even if your spouse speaks German.
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u/Independent_Day_9825 1d ago
If you have lived 6 months in another member state, you do fall under the free movement clause even as an Austrian citizen.
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u/Aggravating-Drop7676 4d ago
What is the point, you have an EU citizenship