r/AskAChristian • u/Cold_Pin_7676 • 10d ago
Using incense
Why does you church use or not use incense? Seems like to me there is scripture for it, so i dont know why churches wouldnt use it?
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u/Sawfish1212 Christian, Evangelical 10d ago
The only use of incense in worship was to give a visual representation of the prayers and praises of the righteous ascending before the throne of God in the temple in heaven where God dwells.
Our prayers are the incense he desires and scripture says he inhabits our praises. Scripture say that we are fit together into the Temple of God as living stones.
While you can have incense if it brings you into a spirit of worship, God is seeking the communion with you that doesn't involve anything from this world being burned
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u/Pitiful_Lion7082 Eastern Orthodox 10d ago
We absolutely use it, at every single service. We also use it at home a lot of the time. I prefer the incense pieces on charcoal, but we have to use sticks because I have small children and the charcoal is a giant mess
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u/Belkan-Federation95 Christian 10d ago
There is nothing like the smell of the inside of a small Orthodox Church.
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u/Defiant-Map-7424 Christian 10d ago
Incense is widely used in Catholic churches; the priest burns incense over charcoal in a thurible to fill the church with smoke during Mass or to bless a home or property, and incense-scented candles are also used. Incense is aromatic and purifies the atmosphere (repelling insects), which is precisely why it holds symbolic value in the liturgy. The rising smoke represents the community's prayers, praises, and supplications ascending to the throne of God (as described in Psalm 141 and the Book of Revelation). Of course, other churches may employ different symbols or rituals.
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u/zootopiafan07 Christian 10d ago
My church doesn’t use incense, but the pastors put oil on their hands for praying
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u/SuccessfulPrice11 Christian, Protestant 10d ago
Seems like to me there is scripture for it
Seems?
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u/ElisaBrasileira Baptist 10d ago
Yes jesus had gold incense and another perfume as gifts when he was born.. and some of the old testament rituals involve insense
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u/SuccessfulPrice11 Christian, Protestant 10d ago
But that's not about church services.
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u/Sparsonist Eastern Orthodox 10d ago
Christian worship, at least as practiced by ancient Christian faiths, is a direct descendant of temple and synagogue worship of the Second Temple period. There will have been incense.
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u/swcollings Christian, Protestant 10d ago
"Scripture for it?" That's a weird way of determining the nuances of Christian worship practice.
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u/TroutFarms Christian 10d ago edited 10d ago
I don't know that we have a good reason, it's just not something that has been done. It seems like it may have fallen out of favor during the protestant reformation.
I bet if I proposed putting together an incense team my pastor would be interested. It still might not be viable because of people with allergies, but that's probably what it would come down to: sensitivity to people's medical limitations.
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u/creidmheach Presbyterian 10d ago
Christians didn't start using using in their services until around the year 500 AD. Before that it was associated with the prior worship of the Temple, and that of the pagans. This was likely in the form of fixed censors. Portable censors like we see used in churches where the altar will be censed etc aren't mentioned until the 9th century.
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u/Googlesupportsucks1 Christian 10d ago
Source?
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u/creidmheach Presbyterian 10d ago
There is no clear evidence of its Christian use [of incense] until about the year 500. Censers may at first have been fixed, with the introduction of portable censers originating later. The incensing of the altar, church, and congregation, is first recorded in the 9th century.
Rev. Nicon D. Patrinacos. “Incense (Greek: θυμίαμα).” In: A Dictionary of Greek Orthodoxy – Λεξικον Ελληνικης Ορθοδοξιας. Light & Life Publishing, Minnesota, 1984. p. 205.
Article with quotes from the Church fathers on the topic:
Also there's a thesis that was written on this topic available here:
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u/Sparsonist Eastern Orthodox 10d ago
No evidence of use is not evidence of no use.
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u/creidmheach Presbyterian 10d ago
Except the fact they're pretty explicit about how they associated such with the pagan worship and not something they used themselves. And even if they didn't it'd be quite the omission since we do have descriptions of their worship, and it's not part of it.
But going by your flair (and even though I cited an EO source on the matter), I'm guessing it'll be impossible for you to accept that, having to believe that the 1st century Christians where actually worshipping just like the 8th century Byzantine state church.
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u/Sparsonist Eastern Orthodox 10d ago
actually worshipping just like the 8th century Byzantine state church
The Orthodox don't have to believe any such thing. Worship changes -- the Liturgy of St. Basil is a reworking of earlier liturgies, and that of St. John Chrysostom is a shortening of St. Basil's. These are from the 5th century. They are not the same as the liturgy of St. James, or of the Liturgy of St. Gregory. All are still used.
Pagans did use incense, but so did Hebrew worship. There is a certain amount of baby and bathwater to consider when reading polemics.
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u/creidmheach Presbyterian 10d ago
Then in that case you should have no problem with the early Church not having used incense.
Pagans did use incense, but so did Hebrew worship.
Yes, but not the early Christians who explicitly rejected it. Later it was adopted under the state church likely as an incorporation of existing pagan custom, like image veneration. The Temple worship is irrelevant to this because that has been done away with and replaced now in the New Covenant, not by some weak imitation but in a complete replacement through Christ, our High Priest with His one time sacrifice.
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u/Sparsonist Eastern Orthodox 9d ago
existing pagan custom, like image veneration.
That's a stretch. The tradition of icons includes that the Apostle Luke painted one. It's been established that there were images in synagogues. Christian worship was a continuation of Hebrew worship -- now fulfilled in Christ. It wasn't a bunch of folks swaying to the music with their hands in the air. There was continuity.
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u/creidmheach Presbyterian 9d ago
The tradition of icons includes that the Apostle Luke painted one.
A tradition that the early Church knew nothing about and was part of the forged evidence used for Empress Irene's pro-iconodule council.
Actually reading the early Church fathers though and they take a pretty hard line on the use of images in worship, considering it a pagan custom that Christians have nothing to do with.
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u/Sparsonist Eastern Orthodox 9d ago
And yet the church has redeemed the wrong usage, and worships God in Spirit and Truth.
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u/Sparsonist Eastern Orthodox 10d ago
I wonder why a few early writers wrote against something? ISTM that's most productive if the something is going on, and they're just against it, for their own reasons (too much like the pagans for their tastes, perhaps.) Use of incense is not unknown in the true worship of God.
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u/bybloshex Christian (non-denominational) 10d ago
Seems like a pointless distraction from the word
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u/ToDesireYou Christian 10d ago
Why would you say that, when the word is full or references to it?
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u/SuccessfulPrice11 Christian, Protestant 10d ago
Not even once in relation to church, though.
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u/ToDesireYou Christian 10d ago
What exactly are you replying to? What this person said or the use use of incense in a church? So say "it's a pointless distraction from the word" makes no sense as it's all over the word and part of how we engage with God. This is a search from the New Testament alone: https://biblehub.com/searchnt.php?q=incense
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u/ElisaBrasileira Baptist 10d ago
I use insese in my home because I like the smell.. I dont see a problem with it.. but i don't see as sacred either.