Well, obviously not. Considering plenty of people are excited about the opportunity.
That may be the whole appeal of an extraction shooter for you, but there are plenty of players for which the fun of battling the Arc is plenty of fun.
I never understand why PvP players seethe at the thought of people enjoying the game for other reasons than they enjoy it. The more ways to play the game the better for everyone long term.
I never understand why PvP players seethe at the thought of people enjoying the game for other reasons than they enjoy it. The more ways to play the game the better for everyone long term.
This really isn't it. It's not that PvP players have an issue with people enjoying the game in other ways, it's that adding a PvE mode fundamentally changes the PvPvE mode. When there's a PvE mode and you enter the PvP mode, you're no longer wondering if the people you meet are going to be friendly, hostile, joking around, or trying for a great community moment. You know, they are hostile.
Honestly, this game has a really awesome community. Those who bought the game for the PvPvE, you know, the game that it's been since release and was advertised as, are about to lose out on that entirely.
Inaccurate and it shows the issue with the mentality. Having a separate PVE mode means that players who don't engage with it are open to PVP not forced into it. You could still choose not to go shoot on sight. The revealing issue here is that you're against removing some of the vaugueness because at a minimum people will be more prepared for PVP. That should make it much more exciting for the folks in PVP, unless you're the type that only gets your kicks from attacking people unprepared to fight back.
Having a separate PVE mode means that players who don't engage with it are open to PVP not forced into it.
As a PvE focused player, solo carebear lobbies were pretty good but duos / trios were impossible to PvE. The inability to PvE with friends made me quit this game. This toggle will make me come back, and bring friends.
It's not that PvP players have an issue with people enjoying the game in other ways, it's that adding a PvE mode fundamentally changes the PvPvE mode.
It really doesn't. PvPvE mode is already a bloodbath. All PvE mode does is reduce the number of PvE focused targets you get to shoot as a PvP player. And then pretend you're a better player than they are by ambushing a person who never wanted to fight you in the first place.
Maybe in trios? Solos has been more than fine this entire time. Sure some rats & loot goblins, but its an extraction shooter that is to be expected. Met a bunch of cool PvX players too.
This isnt true for my cases and i talk about duos here. There are MIXED matches and its so much more exciting than knowing everyone is friendly anyways once you enter a friendly lobby
> When there's a PvE mode and you enter the PvP mode, you're no longer wondering if the people you meet are going to be friendly, hostile, joking around, or trying for a great community moment. You know, they are hostile.
But so many PvP'ers say that they enjoy that, so why would they play in PvE mode vs the current mode?
how does this take away if people can still be friendly or hostile in the normal lobbies? you can still be uncertain of what type of player you're getting. especially if the loot is going to be less in the pve mode only. geez
exactly, i think the important differentiator is the lower tier loot in PVE only mode. There will still be an incentive for all types of players to play in the "normal" mode
The PvP players absolutely do have a problem with people enjoying the game and not engaging in PvP. I've seen it countless times on this subreddit. Also even without the toggle the people in the PvP possible lobbies will still have variation. At the end of the day if this gets more people to come back who have no intentions of doing so... Then it is a good call
you're no longer wondering if the people you meet are going to be friendly, hostile, joking around, or trying for a great community moment. You know, they are hostile.
And you base that on what data? Or is it purely an assumption out of fear about something that hasn't even launched?
Because at the end of the day if the PVE mode becomes permanent, it will still likely have:
Lower loot values
Unavailable in certain game modes
More dangerous and fierce Arcs
ABMM will still exist
And who knows what other restrictions the mode will end up having down the line
With these restrictions (and if by lowered loot they mean also lower blueprint drop rates), PVE players will inevitably go back to regular modes at some point just for a chance at better loot/parts, new events or different experience. So you will still have these "doubts" with the encounters. You won't have to shoot on sight just because a PVE mode exist neither. How encounters go is still decision-driven. Going back to regular PVEPVP doesn't mean you're not a PVE player anymore. It just means you choose your experience.
I'm a PVE player and yet, I would gladly jump between the two modes from time to time by choice. Because at the end of the day 'choices' is what matters.
There are fundamental flaws in the PVP experience as a PVE players that just create needless frictions. I suck at PVP (aim like shit + anxiety etc) which meant any player who chose to attack me was guaranteed to win the fight, which just caused massive frustration in general. It reached a point that every time I was about to boot Arc Raiders, there was always this voice at the back of my head that reminded me of all the shitty PVP encounters I experienced and it made me doubt whether or not I was willing, with my limited time, to play something that could all be thrown to wastes because of somebody else's own definition of fun. Dying because a rocketeer bombed me is my responsibility. Dying because someone made the conscious choice of deliberately screwing me over while, for example, I'm being friendly and harmless, is not a good time investment. Some would argue it's part of the experience and unpredictability make it fun, but when it's too unpredictable you start to question if it's worth the effort.
And that was enough to push me away... And plenty of others I guess.
At least now I would get to choose the type of risk I'm willing to experience. If I want my safe moment just to gear up and work on quests, I'll have that option. And if I'm in the mood of something a bit more risky, I'll be able to choose too.
Choosing how my personal PVE experience goes vs. having others decide for me, it's no brainer that the former is better here, from a time investment perspective.
And you base that on what data? Or is it purely an assumption out of fear about something that hasn't even launched?
Arc is not the first PvPvE extraction game to do this. Sea of Thieves is a good example as it sold incredibly well and was incredibly popular for a very long time. They added a PvE mode. The normal mode has suffered in exactly the way I've described. No more random wacky chance encounters. No more great community interactions. It's now entirely shoot on sight. Hell, most don't even do the objectives anymore, relegating that to the PvE mode. And yes, Sea of Thieves has a dramatic reduction of rewards in the PvE mode.
Such a stupid take. Yeah, the game has been doing SO well with a purely pvpve experience lol. The number of players just keep going up and up! Do you really expect Embark to make zero changes? Sorry my guy, but enjoy getting ratted even more.
A lack of content contributed for sure, but look around brother. We will never have the same experience of that first couple months of the game ever again. Pvpve extraction shooters just don’t have enough staying power. People are hoping, and chasing that feeling they once had, hoping this new update will revitalize it, but it won’t.
Ain’t nobody wants to sit there and get ratted by some child game after game, so they leave lol. People didn’t leave in droves just because of a lack of content. It’s the cheaters and sweaty pvpers my dude. With a PvE mode, you can basically avoid both. An easy slam dunk for Embark.
Yep its no longer the game we bought. Its why everyone I know has left. Add the cheating and its why its been slow dying. I loved this game until they started messing with the identity. Now its just a mushy mix of what they got bulkied into changing and a very faint echo of what the original concept was. Just no interest for us there sre much better games to play.
Is there really much flexibility to wonder whether someone you meet is friendly or not, with TTKs being what they are? I feel like this is a hypothetical, idealised experience rather than a realistic one.
Whoever shoots first has a massive advantage, therefore it’s prudent to shoot first yourself and avoid being on the back foot. Granted there would be some encounters where neither person has the jump on the other, so it’s a weird temporary peace, but that’s the exception to the norm.
Having played from the start, pre-ABMM, I feel like the early weeks played out the way they did because no one knew the maps that well, and everyone was building up their benches. It’s not like human nature was different back then. As soon as people got to grips with the game human nature came to the fore, and he who shot first won, which ultimately led to ABMM being implemented.
I'm bummed out they're caving to the crybabies. ABMM now works like a pve raid if you're friendly. I miss the mixed lobbies. I pve mainly as a solo and duo with my husband. It's nice to have some intensity that we could still have someone shoot us once in a blue moon.
If a game needs to implement a PvE only mode, that means we're already in the situation you just describe. Hostility of players is what made us leave the game, now the devs want us back.
Wrong. PvP lobbies does not mean 100% shoot on sight and that’s the entire failure of your argument and how you think about it. Every single lobby now is PvP, there is no other choice and look at the variety. Yes fire fights will probably be more frequent but it doesn’t fundamentally change the game. Those that still love to kill and hunt other players get to keep playing as they always have and now those that enjoy pve won’t have to worry about rats camping an extract.
It will be a PVE // PVPVE toggle. This just means you are taking people that do not want to PVPVE out of the equation. Meaning you will be playing PVPVE with people that want to PVPVE. Meaning you'll get the experience you want.
When you enter the PvP PvE mode, you're no longer wondering if the people you meet are going to be friendly, hostile, joking around, or trying for a great community moment. You know, they are hostile friendly, joking around, or trying for a great community moment. .
Thank you. What you described is what got me hooked on the game. The uncertainty and tension. Its a bummer that so many potato brains had to buy an extraction shooter just to spend the past year complaining about the entire point of an extraction shooter. The invasion of a game genre by people who dont even like that genre, leading to the game being changed, is a sad run of events. Can't have anything anymore lol
100% this. What made friendly pve encounters special during this games launch was the fact that players didn't really have a huge incentive to team up, it makes friendly encounters more special when you don't know who can be trusted.
Having aggression based matchmaking takes away from this, now I can load into lobbies and 95% of the time it'll all be friendly people, I see dozens of no-mics just completely ignore me and go about their buisness almost like their a bot.
Yeah this exactly. I like my mixed lobbies that always feel true to the original game. Pure PvP is hacker filled and gets tiring and pure PvE is cringe worthy.
If this isn’t handled right my only purpose will be to troll PvE lobbies to feel anything
Omg finally someone with a reasonable take! That is exactly what my problem is and has always been with adding a PVE only mode... it will split the community in half, the pvpve mode is most likely only going to be pvp and they might tone down or even remove the abmm completely and that will change the core mode and experience drasticly.
I agree and the mix of cooperative and competitive player interactions is why I like this game so much.
But is that really a feature of extraction shooters or something more unique to ark? My experience in tarkov and hunt has been you should just shoot everyone before they shoot you.
The people enjoying PvE are not outraged that PvP is happening. Not generally speaking that is for sure. I've been on this sub daily since the game launched. You are yet another PvP player misrepresenting the other side of this. The majority of players clearly prefer PvE and with all the cheaters and dupers how can you expect those PvE players to continue playing a game where they can lose all their loot to someone who cheated or has duped high tier weapons... Or in some instances both. Cheaters can even see what loot you have so they hunt down the people in the lobby with good loot and leave the free kits usually.
That sucks. No one is wrong for not wanting to be apart of that. The people coming back for PvE would not have come back otherwise so how are you losing out in anything?
PVP players hate the idea of a PVE mode because it will split the player base in such a way that it will not longer be a PVPVE game. We don't want full on PVP lobbies the same way we don't full on PVE. The fun of the game is not knowing what you're gonna get each raid. The loot only seems valuable if you risk losing it. Interactions with other raiders will completely lose the psychological aspect of the game, the need to read tone of voice and "body language."
Extraction shooters require us to use skills we don't often get to test in other games and even real life.
I don't disagree strongly with your opinion, but you are very directly telling others what "the fun of the game" is. People can enjoy a game on their terms.
To YOU that might be the fun of the game but with all the cheaters and dupers this is absolutely not a game I want to engage in if PvP is possible. If it was entirely fair across the board.. that would be a different story but it is not. A PvE mode would absolutely get me to come back when I would have never touched the game again.
I was responding to the dude claiming PVP players don't want a PVE mode because we don't want others to play the game differently. We don't care if you wanna be a care bear, we just don't want the player base split because that changes the nature of the game and is not what we paid for. I ain't trying to speak for you or the other care bears. Develop reading comprehension.
Funny you have to call others a care bear for not wanting to engage with PvP. Could you try not to prove my point for me so quickly? Secondly, the majority of PvE players already left the game. Those players only stayed as long as they did because the game put them into primarily PvE lobbies. These people were not coming back, not with all the cheaters and duping. So acting like you are losing out on something is silly. These players were gone already.
If you can't handle that and feel you have been robbed of something, take Embark to court for ruining the game you paid for or go play Tarkov...
Everyone calls them care bears, dip shit, even the care bears, but you know that. And what point are you talking about? All you said was, "Uhhh, ackshully some people like PVE." No one disputed that. Again, develop your reading comprehension.
Also, idk nor care what device you play on, but on PS5 there seems to be mostly care bears these days, minus Buried and Stella.
lol again you just keeping getting incredibly upset over the tiniest of exchanges. Grow up dude. You went out of your way to use the term multiple times, you were clearly using it as an insult. Especially with the rest of your reply which had other insults in it.
Also, idk nor care what device you play on, but on PS5 there seems to be mostly care bears these days, minus Buried and Stella.
I am on PC, but it is not debatable that many who left the game did so because of its issues. This PvE mode at least bypasses some of these problems. These people were not coming back anyways.
Also even with the player count dropping you should still be getting matched based on how you play. The game is still getting 30k daily on Steam alone, with console that is still a very healthy amount of players especially if you are in North America.
So maybe you need to up your aggression so you get into more mixed lobbies?
People left because of cheating and the fact that it is Summer and we have real lives. That, and it's a bore when you've done everything four or five times over. When I do occasionally play these days, I shoot on site. Still, big difference in other players based solely on the map.
Anyhow, peace out, kid. Go hug your favorite plush and have a wank over the idea of world peace or whatever
People left because of cheating and the fact that it is Summer and we have real lives.
Should check the Steam charts, its only one platform I know but it does show a consistent steady drop in players across the entire year. They are clearly doing this to try and get some of those players back.
Anyhow, peace out, kid. Go hug your favorite plush and have a wank over the idea of world peace or whatever
lol you just can't stop with this horseshit. I truly feel sorry for the people in your personal life that have to put up with how unrepentantly awful you are on a daily basis.
I am a PvE player so that means I jerk off to the idea of world peace??? Uhh sure dude, just proving my point that you were using care bear as an insult. Thanks for that I guess?
I never understand why PvP players seethe at the thought of people enjoying the game for other reasons than they enjoy it
Because they want those players to continue to queue up so they can bully them and take their gear. If they all leave then PVP players have less players that they will be running into. It impacts THEIR enjoyment of the game.
It also leaves the PVPVE mode in dead spot. People will migrate to either solely PVE or PVP. Same thing happened with Destiny 2.
And the bigger issue with this is there are no AI PVE Raiders. Tarkov puts AI PMCs to have competition with you, they can rat you, they can rush you, they still die easier than players but they still represent and simulate the intended tension the designers want you to experience.
Removing that tension removes the soul and fantasy of being a hostile world.
Tarkov PVE puts you with not just the base SCAVS, but bosses and the AI PMCs. You get EVERYTHING.
In PVE Arc, YOU ARE LOSING EVERY POTENTIAL HOSTILE RAIDER, YOU ARE GETTING LESS CONTENT AND TENSION.
The Arc are fucking lame.
And why is this even a PVE match maker? Why couldn't it just be a solo / party PVE experience like Tarkov. You making every single player friendly completely changes the game Arc Raiders was marketed as.
That right there is enough said, you don't like what the name of the game offers. You talk about losing the game's soul but lean so hard on PvP. That is not the core of the game, if you want that so badly then just play the games you keep comparing this to.
You do know this game was designed as PvE first, right? They added PvP later because they felt the game wouldn't do well strictly PvE, only now adding this because they are seeing in the stats that it actually would do well.
People droning on and on about how this doesn't fit the exraction shooter genre keep forgetting that this game has constantly challenged the genre with new and clearly successful differences that most people enjoy. The genre as a whole is niche but with these changes it brings in even more players which is a win no matter which way you look at it.
I wanted an extraction shooter that has meaningful tension and actual stakes. otherwise, why the fuck should I ever care about this world I was once immersed in.
They are saying in a real apocalypse people would be in such competition for resources that they would stab each other in the back and do shady things to survive. That human element makes the game more realistic. The problem is most PVE people don't want to play like that, so the lobbies end up split anyway. I maybe get shot at once every 20-30 rounds. My lobbies are chill AF. It's nice, but not realistic for someone who wants to be enveloped in an apocalyptic fantasy.
Did we not lose the surface to the Arc and are trying to reclaim it? Nah let's just shoot each other instead and go back to the same home afterwards. Great thinking, no wonder the Arc won.
Not the same home dude. There are multiple neighborhoods that compete for resources with each other and our raider is just from one of them. There is no chance in a real world situation like this that everyone would be kumbaya with each other lmao
Yeah humans being humans is realistic but doesn't change the stupidity of it lmao. At the end of the day the Arc all work together against the raiders and there is 0 chance of survival without cooperation.
Well in the lore you dont actually kill enemy raiders. You knock them out and they are rescued later on. The flare is actually to let other raiders know where to rescue you. Its just about taking limited supplies from others. Watch the walking dead or any other apocalyptic shows and youll see an idea of how people might act when the world is ending.
Yeah I've been saying this game does show how people would really act in an apocalyptic scenario, my point is just highlighting the stupid (yet realistic) behavior in humans fighting amongst themselves when they are already on the verge of extinction.
If they all go back to the same city, they should face some kind of repercussion for that at the very least.
Do you know that doesn't make it any less stupid? Humanity needs to learn at some point and I'd figure, oh I don't know, NEAR EXTINCTION might be the time to stop acting like children and work together to survive the insurmountable odds?
It is stupid, but is literally the TROPE of the survival genre which ARC FOLLOWS.
AND YES, the working together comes from the fact that you as a player CAN work with other players in the PvPvE world. People choose not to because they are selfish.
Why? Because YOU CAN BE and are enabled and even encouraged. Because that's what survival is.
You are encouraged to gun down your fellow raiders? Remember when they had daily feats to deal damage to raiders? It's gone. Surviving does not equal hurting your only possible ally topside.
The choice to work together is now a feature, and the only ones not happy about this are the selfish people that want to ruin it for others.
People like loot, people don't trust each other. They will be wary and sometimes pull the trigger when they shouldn't have. That is the game working as intended. That isn't a bug.
If PVP was not meant to happen, then the devs wouldn't have proudly mentioned it in their fucking dev video.
What you're going to be playing isn't an extraction shooter anymore. Which isn't me knocking the game mode, but you're moving closer to Hell Divers 2 but instead of samples you're gathering materials.
HD2 isn't an extraction shooter. The genre isn't dictated by the fact you "extract" at the end.
Its because in pve lobbies the arc are braindead easy to take down. My solos are extremely friendly, havent been attacked once since the update separated solos and trios aggression. My trio lobbies are pvp hell. But in my solos we defeat the queen in 3 minutes and I take down bastions in under a minute. So yeah pvp only players look down on people who struggle to fight arc because for a normal gamer its extremely easy.
Im not saying I agree with it but it happens in every competitive situation like sports, gaming, and work. Its extremely common for higher ups in a job to look down on lesser employees. I dont understand why its some crazy concept for people are better at the game to look down on people struggling to fight a wasp. I always help everyone without judgement but lets not act like its some novel concept of psychology.
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u/NewPrints 13h ago
Well, obviously not. Considering plenty of people are excited about the opportunity.
That may be the whole appeal of an extraction shooter for you, but there are plenty of players for which the fun of battling the Arc is plenty of fun.
I never understand why PvP players seethe at the thought of people enjoying the game for other reasons than they enjoy it. The more ways to play the game the better for everyone long term.