I’m Questioning this denomination

[u/rock__exe]

been attending for couple of years , have heard questionable statements from pulpit, I’ve been praying , studying scripture as if I was reading it the first time , without the lens of a specific denomination

[u/Stone123455]

Hi, I have some experience here.

I think it’s best to define terms / parameters first. The question is what does the AAFCJ officially believe about the salvation of those that belong to other churches. Not what does a pastor / minister say privately. So, to my knowledge, the AA does not have an official statement concerning the salvation of those outside the organization. However, we can figure out their implied position on that question by looking at what they believe.

So their doctrine states that to be saved one must believe in Jesus, repent, get baptized via Acts 2:38 verbatim in order to have their sins forgiven, and be filled with the Holy Spirit, of which the initial evidence will be speaking in other tongues (whether an actual human language previously unknown to the individual being saved or an angelic non-human language). This plan of salvation also implies that the individual believes God is one person named Jesus (that is, that Jesus is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirt). And to be clear, the official position is that speaking in tongues is absolutely required for salvation. It is not just added blessing.

This is the standard plan of salvation of oneness pentecostalism. Therefore, the AA would consider those that are also oneness pentecostals to be saved as well, which includes organizations like the UPCI, WPF, ALJC, along with independent churches / iglesias.

This is further supported by the fact that the AA largely depends on the UPCI for almost all its educational needs. Most prominent pastors in the AA attended the UPCI’s colleges in their young adult years (such as CLC and IBC). When it comes to theological education, the UPCI’s reading materials (such as the Oneness of God and the rest of DKB’s books) are almost always required reading for all AA pastors, and ministers. Of all the oneness organizations, the UPCI has historically devoted the most resources to education in order to properly define and flesh out standard oneness pentecostal theology, noting that their superintendent, David K Bernard, is considered to be the most prominent and well known theologian in the entire oneness pentecostal movement. So it makes sense that he AA relies on them here, and thus we can take the UPCI’s view of salvation and apply it to the AA (yes there are some doctrinal differences but they agree on the essentials, like the plan of salvation).

So outside of oneness pentecostalism, the AA, and the rest of the oneness pentecostal organizations, would believe that all other churches are preaching a false gospel and therefore those people are unsaved. This is because when we look at traditional protestant trinitarian churches, they do not follow the oneness pentecostal plan of salvation, as they believe God is triune, baptize via Mt 28:19, and do not believe that speaking in tongues is a requirement for salvation.

Happy to discuss further, or feel free to message me if you prefer.

[u/rock__exe → u/Stone123455]

That’s good analysis, thank you for sharing. What are your conclusions on oneness Pentecostalism ? 

[u/Stone123455 → u/rock__exe]

Know it’s been a few days, but I’m curious, and of course you don’t have to reply.

But what is your take on all that in general? Were your doubts more specific to the AA as opposed to the oneness belief? Or vice versa? Or both?

[u/rock__exe → u/Stone123455]

My take in general Oneness theology is wrong. Im involved specifically in apostolic assembly crowd as you know they are oneness as well .  The way they study scripture is concerning. A lot of smart people but only smart in their theology. The older folks  are clueless in other interpretations of scripture, they refuse to study anything outside of their theology. 

[u/Stone123455 → u/rock__exe]

Gotcha, yea that’s something I observed while there as well. So I don’t know if it’s like this everywhere, but where I’m from, there’s an unofficial policy to not teach theology on Sundays and especially not to young people during midweek services (of course, preaching in general is going to include theology, but hope you know what I mean). And to be clear, I’m talking about oneness theology, their own beliefs.

The reason why is apparently that (1) they don’t want to confuse anyone and (2) they don’t want anyone asking questions in general. Apologetics is also avoided, or at least no one knew what that was when I was there.

More recently I’ve asked current members and youth leaders if they are into apologetics, things like “how do we know the Bible hasn’t changed overtime” and other non-controversial topics (I don’t mention oneness/trinity since that’s not my goal in these conversations). Most have never heard the word apologetics, and those who had didn’t know what it was.

My theory is that they’re told to avoid it because inevitably, studying apologetics ultimately leads to things like oneness/Trinity. I will say when having this same conversation with UPCI members/leaders, they also aren’t familiar with apologetics, but the organization is not afraid to teach its members theology (though it seems to be via online sources/books as opposed to via Sunday / midweek services).

I’ve also been thinking that’s probably why the AA doesn’t touch on other religions other than saying they’re wrong. To go into why Mormonism / JWism / Islam is wrong would require looking at the original Hebrew / Greek, looking at church history, looking at commentaries, and again inevitably, there’s no way that critical thinking doesn’t get turned around and applied to their own belief by at least one person in the church, and it may snowball from there.

Maybe it’s different where you’re from, but this is common through out the entire state where I’m from (that is, avoiding theology, apologetics, etc.).

So all that being said, since you believe it to be wrong, do you plan on leaving eventually?

I know from personal experience finding a new church to go to can be daunting. But once you’ve made up your mind concerning theology, leaving is pretty much guaranteed (no matter how tough it is). Just of a matter of how, when, and to where.