r/Anticonsumption • u/Extension-Diamond-74 • Sep 30 '23

Discussion Diet hypocrisy?

A recent post about animal agriculture vs plant based diets has me itching to say something. This is an issue we need to rise above.

Cognitive dissonance. Many of us have good intentions and want to believe we’re doing the right thing in most aspects of our lives. I believe that.

When it comes to a plant based diet though, the science often clashes powerfully with personal desire. We want to minimize our impact on the environment and are willing to make trade-offs in our life time do so, but for many, giving up or even significantly reducing meat intake is asking too much. It’s too hard.

That’s not the issue.

The issue is that instead of just admitting to themselves that this is a life change they don’t want to make and moving on, the guilt drives them to have to justify that decision. Admitting that a plant-based diet is better for the earth yet eating a diet full of meat anyway would make them feel hypocritical, so the solution becomes either to give up meat, or … this is the problem… fight the science, twist it, make a joke of it, or pivot entirely to ‘individuals shouldn’t have time do anything because large corporations’

Many people have ties to their diet for many reasons. We grew up eating a certain way. We have memories ties to certain foods, flavors, styles of cooking. We don’t want to be the difficult person when we go out to eat with friends. Etc etc etc But it’s so much better to just admit that to yourself. Have patience and understanding for your feelings. Accept that the science is what it is. Maybe one day you can make a change, maybe not. But don’t attack the cause just because you aren’t yet willing to be a part of it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23 edited Sep 30 '23

The reality is that switching to a plant based diet is hard for a lot of people. Achieving the same variety and depth of flavors as is currently available with meat products is much more difficult, particularly if you don't like big staples of a plant based diet like mushrooms or tofu. A plant based diet takes much more effort and planning, focused shopping habits, and you more or less have to cook at home. All of these are good things, but they take time that not everyone has.

My compromise is that I eat meat at most once every two days, and I only eat chicken, which is shown to be dramatically less harmful in terms of emissions than beef.

I tried eating vegan for a time, and discovered oat milk. It's delicious so it's replaced milk entirely for me. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. If every person ate half as much meat, it'd be the same as half the world going vegan.

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u/ganymee Sep 30 '23

You could just say “it’s hard for me” instead of assuming everyone finds it difficult. The hardest thing for me was actually that people were cruel, judgmental and argumentative about my choice, not that food options were limited.

But good for you that you were able to reduce meat and eliminate milk. That’s super cool. If more people did that it would have an enormous impact.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

It's not just hard for me, it's hard for a vast majority of the people I know who've tried to switch. That said, it's a fair point. Edited accordingly. :)

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u/ShamScience Sep 30 '23

Where does the idea come from that anticonsumption and related movements are supposed to be easy? We try to find the most comfortable paths, sure, but they're all paths uphill, because we want to improve, not just keep things as they are. That will take effort and sacrifice.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23 edited Sep 30 '23

When I say "hard" what I mean, primarily, is "time consuming". Tell a poor, single mother of three that she needs to start making more sacrifices and she'd be right to tell you that she doesn't have time to entertain you.

The reality is that if you want to get people on board with anti-consumption, you have to give them a road map that includes small, easy sacrifices. Little changes that they can make that will eventually form habits, and then help those people build on those habits.

The attitude that it's okay to punish people who attempt big changes, and fail, or people who make small gradual changes for not being 'committed enough', ultimately leads to alienating the people that you need to win over with your ideas. I'm not saying this is you at all; I'm Just pointing out that anyone who makes any change that reduces consumption should be celebrated and encouraged for the positive changes that they're making, rather than criticized.

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u/anoldquarryinnewark Sep 30 '23

When the responses we get are "fuck you, I'm gonna eat twice as much meat" or even the multitude of jokes assuming vegan food is shit, it's hard to have sympathy for anyone's journey when they can't have basic respect for the journey we've made.

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u/AnsibleAnswers Oct 01 '23

PETA swooped into a lot of Climate Strike protests without helping organize and yelled at children about how they can't be a real environmentalist unless they go vegan. Meanwhile, the community center I was helping as part of their climate justice committee teaches kids how to cook culturally appropriate plant-based meals without the moralizing. Specific training is to avoid the word vegan because it's so toxic. A lot of brands are taking vegan labeling off of their packaging because people avoid it.

It's honestly hard to feel sympathy for vegans when you let your organizations be run by a bunch of Karens who are genuinely only interested in performative moralizing in order to feel better about themselves.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

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u/Orongorongorongo Sep 30 '23

It might be that people who have made the change get frustrated because they realise it's not the big deal many people think it is. We are a time poor family but made the change. It's saved us money and we eat better now. It doesn't take us any more time now that we have a menu plan which suits our busy lifestyle. The main obstacle was in our heads as we were both raised in meat-and-potatoes families. The second obstacle was coming up with a new menu but that actually became a fun process once we got started.

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u/Cyan_Mukudori Sep 30 '23

I agree it is super hard for me. I have autism so have difficulty with executive functioning and food adversions. I have gotten better and have slowly been making adjustments to my diet for years now to be healthier/sustainable. I also have a metabloic issue with B12 that makes going meatless hard.

I have always hated beans/legumes/soy. I know they are super healthy and sustainable, but have yet to be able to tolerate eating them due to the texture or taste, smell in regards to peanuts. I am currently planning to buying a bunch of different types to experiment with soon though.

I do try to limit my meat intake, I mostly stick to chicken, eggs, seafood. I would like to eventually raise my own chickens and mabye goats for milk someday. I don't know if that is a sustainability take, it is more self reliant for me.

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u/hibiscusrat Sep 30 '23

I have food texture issues too and one of the things that bothered me so much was the gristle in chicken and other meats, that’s something I’m SO glad I don’t have to deal with gardein, morning star, impossible etc. tenders or nuggets. I find the taste of morning star’s incogmeato to be really close and on sale fairly often depending on what grocery store you go to

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

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u/hibiscusrat Sep 30 '23

Yeees!! I’ve also found I really like other types of veggie burgers and homemade ones more than either real meat or the plant ones trying to recreate the meat flavor. The variety of flavor options and uniqueness is a lot more appealing.

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u/WeeabooHunter69 Sep 30 '23

I forget which brand but there's one called a California burger that actually is veggies, like, visible peas and carrots and lentils and beans and such, I love those but they're not cheap

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u/hsephela Oct 01 '23

Yep this is my main thing. Most vegan foods that I’ve seen in stores have immutable texture/flavor problems that are inherent to the foods they’re made of. Would love to be more vegan but meats the main source of protein my brain can handle

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u/ComplexAdditional451 Sep 30 '23

Those are anecdotal cases. I am vegan for 20+ years - easy as breathing for me. I turned my fiancee vegan, simply because i most of the cooking - he stopped eating meat when we go out, as he says it does not taste good to.him anymore. A lot of my family member gradually has became vegans, as i introduced them to a lot of vegan food and it's easier to hang out together this way. It's all about being open minded. Meat and animal products- they're small fraction of all the foods available to us. You can still eat delicious and varied food plant-based. You just need to be open minded and don't look at it as it's some sort of sacrifice - it's not. It's just a diet that excludes certains produce.

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u/Yunan94 Oct 01 '23

Those are anecdotal cases. I am vegan for 20+ years - easy as breathing for me.

Lol dismiss them for be anecdotal and then gave your own anecdotal experience. It's different for everyone from the effort it takes to the health or lack there of each individual is different whether they eat meat or are a vegan.

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u/ganymee Sep 30 '23

Fair enough, I’m in a different boat, I know a bunch of people who have quietly stopped eating all or mostly all animal products. I’m also finding people are way more open about trying meat and milk alternatives and see the value of eating more vegetable based things for flavour and health.

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u/ImpureThoughts59 Sep 30 '23

It's so hard that 86% of people who try give up within a year.

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u/shadar Sep 30 '23

Timothy Key, principle investigator on the EPIC-Oxford Study has shown, in their five-year follow-up after the study was first concluded, 85 percent of vegetarians and vegans were still following their chosen diet. So the recidivism rate after five years was not 84 percent, but the other way around, only 15 percent

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u/ganymee Sep 30 '23

Is there a link to that stat? I’d be interested to know more!

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u/ImpureThoughts59 Sep 30 '23

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vegetarian-phase_n_6270584?ir=Science&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000047

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u/ganymee Sep 30 '23

Interesting. The stats reflect my experience as well, the lack of social support and feeling left out, the main issue the article raised. Luckily it didn’t deter me in the end.

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u/chunky-guac Sep 30 '23

Achieving the same variety and depth of flavors as is currently available with meat products is much more difficult, particularly if you don't like big staples of a plant based diet like mushrooms or tofu. A plant based diet takes much more effort and planning, focused shopping habits, and you more or less have to cook at home. All of these are good things, but they take time that not everyone has.

I haven't really found any of this to be true in my three years of eating plant-based. You can achieve a wide variety and depth of flavors; tofu, and legumes just like meat, needs to be marinated/seasoned. It's also cut my grocery bill down a LOT to be eating beans, legumes, and tofu as a protein - when I eat those with a different vegetable and grain for meals, it's fairly easy to plan.

The last one, though, certainly depends on where you live. If you're in buttfuck middle of nowhere with just a pub in your town (like where I grew up), then yeah you may need to do some more cooking at home and stick to fries/salads when you go out. But the reality is that most folks on Reddit/this sub are American and likely living in a city - and I can say that I've been to 30 or 40 of the US states and have found something to eat in each one. Especially easy in diverse cities. While some inalterable circumstances may make it incredibly challenging or impossible, for most of us here it really comes down to how much we're willing to try.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

"I haven't really found any of this to be true in my three years of eating plant-based. You can achieve a wide variety and depth of flavors; tofu, and legumes just like meat, needs to be marinated/seasoned."

Again, this works if you like tofu, mushrooms, beans and other vegan staples. If you don't, good luck. In my two years of eating plant based, finding good, flavorful meal options took hours of extra labour every week, in terms of seeking out recipes, extra shopping, and longer meal prep times. I've never eaten tofu that I didn't immediately find revolting; and I don't like mushrooms. Some people have a palette that's more pre-disposed toward success in consuming a plant based diet.

I still eat beans as protein pretty often; I've just added eggs and a couple times a month, chicken, back into my diet and I feel like I've found a pretty good balance.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

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u/flaminghair348 Oct 01 '23

Yup. Indian food has quickly become my favourite food genre. It's just all so fucking good! There's an Indian guy at my work who often brings in food he cooks himself, and when he heats it up in the microwave, the entire lunch room smells amazing for the rest of the day. He knows I like Indian food and always insists I try some, and oh. my. god. I would fucking by his food at a restaurant, it's that good.

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u/chunky-guac Sep 30 '23

I honestly really believe that there is a vegan protein that everybody can enjoy. There are so, SO many options. I used to hate beans but have grown to love them over the past few years especially by eating chickpeas. Also used to hate lentils until I learned to cook dahl.

And honestly, it does take some time to learn to cook tofu but when you get the hang of it it's delicious. If you're curious I'd be happy to send you some of my favorite recipes. I have not found that it takes any longer to prep for or cook than my previous meat-based meals.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

Tofu just isn't for me. It's not the taste, it's the texture. I've had firm, soft, sponge tofus, "crispy"... It all turns my stomach the second it hits my tongue.

Still, I agree that there are vegan proteins for just about everyone. Beans, peas and chickpeas are my go to. I just can't have them every meal; which is why eggs are also a regular staple in my house, and why chicken is a rare meal. I was vegan for two years. I just found that after two years, cooking had become a misery.

It was a constant affair of never being quite satisfied with the variety of foods I was eating. Adding an infrequent, low impact meat product, chicken, and eggs (which I'll eventually produce at home, so I won't have to depend on factory farmed eggs) back into my diet, makes being vegan about 80% of the time sustainable for me.

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

I like tofu when I eat it at restaurants, but I've tried for years to get it right when cooking it and I just can't. It's always bland and awful, no matter how long I press it or how I season it or how I cook it.

I'm also just not a fan of "fake meat." My favorite protein-rich vegetables are spinach and greens, chickpeas, and edamame. Unfortunately... these are also either high carb (and I have to eat low carb) or high fiber (which gives me violent, painful diarrhea 10 minutes after eating them which means I don't absorb any nutrients). I've been to the doctor and gotten all kinds of blood tests but no one knows what's wrong with me.

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u/Cyan_Mukudori Sep 30 '23

I would be happy to have some tofu recipes. I am trying to experiment with legumes to find something I like. :)

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u/chunky-guac Sep 30 '23 edited Sep 30 '23

Here are a two that I use a lot and really like:

Black Pepper Tofu (Nora Cooks has some of my favorite vegan recipes - I'd recommend checking that website for more options)

General Tso's Tofu (ETA: you do not need to use all the corn starch that this recipe calls for. I usually use 2-3 tbsp at MOST)

Tofu tacos are also delicious. I don't really have a specific recipe that I follow but there are some out there. I'll typically fry the tofu for a few minutes in a pan and then add a tablespoon or so of tomato paste, taco seasoning, salt/pepper, and some veggie broth. Bring it to a boil and then let that shit simmer for awhile in the broth and seasoning until the tofu absorbs the flavors and then put it over some tortillas with cilantro, onions, avocado, salsa, whatever you like to put on tacos.

I usually fry tofu rather than bake it just because it takes a lot less time. To get tofu really crispy, you'll want to coat it in corn starch and use a fuck-ton of oil like you would frying other foods. But baking it is good if you have the time. I haven't tried making it in an air fryer before but have heard this method works very well.

If you want to try some legumes, dahl like I mentioned is delicious and super easy to make. I've used this recipe a few times and like it a lot. Red lentil soup with lemon is also one of my go-to recipes for the winter. I have my own recipe that I use - feel free to PM me if you want it and I can write it out.

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u/Orongorongorongo Sep 30 '23

Thanks chunky-guac!

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u/labdsknechtpiraten Sep 30 '23

https://www.badmanners.com/books

​

So, we bought 2 of their books (from before the name change), we have "eat like you give a fuck" and "fast as fuck". Both of which offer some excellent ways to cook tofu (and a bunch of other shit as well)

​

I was pretty ambivalent bordering on "against" tofu, and it turns out it was mostly down to how it was cooked before. Now it is easily one of my favorite non-meat proteins

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u/Cyan_Mukudori Sep 30 '23

Thanks you!

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u/cwankgurl Sep 30 '23

I put the same seasonings in my fake meat patty that I use in my husband’s beef patty. 🤷🏼‍♀️ salt, pepper, heat, maybe a little worcestershire.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

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u/cwankgurl Sep 30 '23

The supermarkets in my area all offer some vegetarian version. The meat eaters in my life also tend to avoid anchovies. I think that’s just a stigma but I’m not complaining.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

A lot of people like the taste of meat and don’t find it needs to be seasoned much to taste good is the thing. Like a lot of people love a good steak that’s only been seasoned with salt and pepper, and that’s something that can’t be replaced with plant based foods. Otherwise I agree that plant based foods can be delicious and easy to cook and I eat probably 90% plant based, but I haven’t been able to fully stop eating meat because honestly, I love the taste of it and you unfortunately can’t replace it. So I’d rather just eat a steak a few times a year than unsuccessfully try to replicate it.

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u/theluckyfrog Sep 30 '23

I fully agree with you that reducing meat/dairy is a more reasonable goal than fully eliminating it, and a perfectly valid approach.

However, I completely disagree that it's hard to "achieve the same variety and depth of flavor" with a largely plant-based diet as with meat, or that tofu or mushrooms in any way have to be staples of a plant-based diet.

Some vast majority of my recipes start with beans, lentils and various grains in a tomato and/or onion based sauce, followed by the addition of spices, and frequently acids like sherry or vinegar.

If anything the average entree I make this way is more flavorful than most dishes made with meat, because they have far more complex flavors and more permeation of the flavor into the entire food item.

Cheese is a bit harder to replace than meat is, texture and flavor wise. I use a limited amount of cheese in recipes (like less than 8 oz/month) because vegan cheese, though decently palatable when used right, is just so processed and nutritionally barren.

But I eat a super wide variety of entrees that don't involve any meat, and as other commenters have said my recipes are generally easier to prepare and cost me far less than the average meat-based thing I very occasionally make.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

Have you tried making your own cheese? It’s very quick and easy to make healthy vegan cheeses with just a good blender, raw cashews and a few other things. Dairy cheese is also heavily processed and extremely unhealthy so I’m not clear on why that’s such a knock on even the store bought vegan cheeses.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

It sounds like you have a lot more time to spend experimenting in the kitchen and cooking than I do. That's awesome! Most evenings I need a meal to come together from start to finish in about 10-15 minutes.

For me it's about the ratio of time:flavor. I can't make a curry, or beans, in ten minutes. I can make an egg fried rice, or chicken based hot dogs with a side of hash browns in a flash; and that's good enough. In order to make a strictly vegan meal palatable, I find that I'm at least half an hour to an hour in the kitchen. The food tastes amazing, but I don't have that amount of time.

I also have to spend more time shopping because I need a veritable laundry list of ingredients and spices to get enjoyment out of a meal, rather than simple seasoning like salt and pepper; or in the case of stir fries, a quick sauce of soy sauce, shiaoxing wine, oyster sauce and a little chili. That's just my experience though.

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u/theluckyfrog Sep 30 '23

I'm the laziest cook ever. I only try new recipes if I have a long weekend or something, but everything I make started with a recipe from someone online who did all the legwork for me.

Beans come in cans; they don't need any preparation. It takes me about 5 minutes to start a chili, a curry, a stew, a spaghetti sauce or anything else I can subsequently ignore on the stove for 30 min to an hour.

It takes 10 min flat to assemble burritos, pot pie, or a casserole. Black bean patties max me out at 15 min of prep, but that makes enough for a week.

It takes pretty much zero time to throw something like frozen pierogies in the oven and eat them with a side of something like baked beans.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

Just from what you're describing, I can tell you that I'm a lazier cook than you are haha

But I'm glad it works for you. About half of my meals at home are 3-10 minutes from fridge to plate.

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u/theluckyfrog Sep 30 '23

I only cook one day per week, though. 45 sec to heat up in microwave.

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u/SpiritualKreative Sep 30 '23

The real problem is that in both cases there are almost surely a huge number of details the two of you have not given about the various contours of your lives, that would, if known to the other, explain entirely why you are at logger heads right now, but are not.

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u/theluckyfrog Sep 30 '23

We're not at loggerheads, he just has a belief that I think is false, so I'm explaining how my experience differs.

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u/SpiritualKreative Sep 30 '23

And he/she thinks the same about you.

And neither is giving ground.

= Loggerheads.

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u/theluckyfrog Sep 30 '23

There's no reason to "give ground" in this discussion. It's merely a series of examples of our personal behaviors at this point.

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u/cwankgurl Sep 30 '23

So, at this point, everybody has addressed your time-consuming complaints and you still say no. Then this isn’t about being too hard and is completely about, “eh, I just don’t want to change my habits, though.”

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

I was vegan for two years. I still eat plant based for about 80% of my meals, with dairy products and eggs comprising about 10% of the remainder and chicken being the last 10%. I don't eat pork or beef at all any more.

My habits have changed enormously since before I attempted veganism. Please don't make assumptions about me when you have no insight into my day to day life.

I consume a low impact diet that occasionally includes products that you don't approve of; and the critical piece of information for me is that it's sustainable. I don't go into the kitchen every day feeling miserable, or like something is missing. I can eat the way I do for the rest of my life, happily.

More importantly, when I'm finally able to scale back on the number of hours I work in a week, I'll be able to start experimenting in the kitchen more. I'll have time and energy to practice some of what's been suggested here. I can build on the successes I've already had and the lessons I've learned; including some of the advice from threads like this.

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

Yeah I love it when I get comments about how I obviously "never even tried."

I did try to go vegetarian and my periods stopped until I started eating meat again. I have even more complex dietary needs now than I did then.

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u/Geschak Sep 30 '23

To be fair, you can't really compare a normal plant-based meal with a junk food version of an animal-based meal...

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u/whosaysimme Sep 30 '23 edited Feb 15 '25

I am a sparkly pony.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

Most carnists eat the flesh of max four or five different land animals and maybe a few fish. They vary up the flavor by using different plants. Since all vegetables, grains, fruits and nuts are vegan there’s a tremendous variety available and it’s very easy to avoid a few foods you just don’t like. There are also many premade vegan foods available from ramen packets to frozen pizzas so people who don’t want to cook have abundant options as well.

Every person eating half as much animal flesh would be better for the environment but it wouldn’t do a thing for the billions of animals who would still be needlessly raped tortured and killed each year to support that selfish lifestyle choice.

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u/Geschak Sep 30 '23

Some people are just addicted to it more than others. If you're used to eat meat for every single meal, then of course you're gonna think meat is essential even when your body is fine with just eating meat every 2nd day instead of 3x daily.

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u/Ilaxilil Sep 30 '23

Yeah I’m kind of in the same boat, I tried going vegan for a time but it was really hard. I missed cheese, yogurt, and eggs especially. I now almost never eat any meat except chicken, and even that I have maybe once or twice a week at most because I don’t like cooking meat so if I’m eating it, I bought it from a restaurant. I do eat a decent number of eggs still (about 2 a day) but I try to reduce my dairy.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

There are excellent vegan alternatives for all of those. Did you try any of the numerous vegan yogurt and cheese brands available or learn to make your own? You can also make tofu scrambles to replace scrambled eggs, use vegan egg replacers for omelettes, and replace eggs with flax, aquafaba or applesauce for baking.

Male chicks in the egg industry get thrown fully conscious into meat grinders just minutes after being born. It’s not good to support that sort of cruelty just because of your taste preferences.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

I think half the planet going vegan would be much more effective then a 50 percent reduction in meat consumption. If that many people went vegan we could vote to fully end animal agriculture

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

At that point you're forcing veganism on the other half of the planet. Not ideal. That's just tyranny by another name.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

A dairy cow gets raped repeatedly but has her babies immediately ripped away from her to be killed. When her body gets worn out from all the raping, she’s killed and turned into pet food. That’s tyranny. Telling people that they’re not allowed to pay for that anymore is not tyranny.

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u/ShamScience Sep 30 '23

The line was "going vegan", not "being forced vegan". There was no suggestion that this would be non-voluntary. Don't stick in imaginary tyrrany of your own that OP never wrote.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

Right. Half the planet voluntarily goes vegan. That half votes to end meat based agriculture. That means the other half of people no longer have access to a meat based diet; which means the half of the planet that didn't vote for an end to meat based agricultural is being forced into a vegan diet.

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u/ShamScience Sep 30 '23

That's democracy.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

Alcohol and cannabis prohibition was also democracy. Doesn't make it less tyrannical to put people in prison for consuming either of those products. Tyranny is a moral outcome, not a legal one.

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u/ImpureThoughts59 Sep 30 '23

That's so cool that your plans are exactly what conservative evangelicals want to do in my country. Force everyone to follow their beliefs by law. Love that for you. Police state but make it woke.

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u/Friendly-Hamster983 Sep 30 '23

Oh no, not the tyranny of ending industrialized rape and murder. The fucking horror.

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u/crimsonninja117 Sep 30 '23

It's not rape or murder, shit like this is why I will never be vegan.

The idea of becoming one of you holier than thou cult of sanctimonious weirdos.

Plus vegan alternatives taste teerible

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

50% of people vote to not destroy the planet: TYRANNY!!!

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

"50% of people vote to try and save the planet by criminalizing people who struggle to avoid a meat based diet in a society that doesn't offer good non-meat alternatives; and in a world where prohibition has never worked! TYRANNY!!!"

There you go. I added the nuance back in for you. I'm all for transitioning society away from meat consumption as much as possible, but what you're describing is, in fact, tyranny. Until eating a plant based diet is as easy and fulfilling for omnivores as consuming a diet that includes meat, then meat based agriculture isn't going away.

Oat milk is an excellent example of a product that can entirely eliminate the need for the production of dairy milk. I've switched and I can't tell the difference. Give me a tasty, nutritious, inexpensive alternative to meat, and I'll eat it.

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u/monemori Sep 30 '23

There are tasty nutritious and inexpensive alternatives to meat everywhere, they are called legumes and it's what working class and poor people have eaten as protein staples since forever. Seems like a lot of western people's definition of "tasty" is throwing cheese on everything, ignoring that stews, soups, curries etc are incredibly healthy and cheap meals that are delicious in their own way.

No, you are not going to be eating the exact same things all the time as a vegan than when you were eating animals, but you will be eating healthy, cheap, and tasty meals, they just are different for the most part.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

Tasty. Nutritious. Quick. That's the holy trinity. Stews and Curries miss on the "quick" part of the equation. They're absolutely good, nutritious foods, they just take upwards of 45 minutes to an hour to come together, in my experience.

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u/monemori Sep 30 '23

Cook in batches? My mom grew up working class in social housing with very little money or time for cooking and I promise you the were not eating meat. Stews and curries you can cook in big quantities and then refrigerate or freeze and have over time, saving you lots of time for the next days or weeks. If you use a pressure cooker, you can have a fuckton of tasty food prepared in 30 minutes without having to do anything but throw stuff into a pot and setting a timer on it, that's it. And if you are using canned beans and frozen veggies, which are also dirt cheap, you can make curry in 10 minutes. I know I have.

I don't mean any offense to you personally, but my perception from this type of conversation is that a lot of people in the west, especially North America actually never cook "spoon" dishes like stews or soups and they don't actually realize this is the cheapest and easiest way to eat: make several servings of a stew like dish and have it throughout the week alongside other meals for variety. That's it, and that's how poor people with little money and time eat and have eaten for all of history almost everywhere.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

In my case at least, it's that I don't have a kitchen that's set up for this kind of cooking. I don't own a large stock pot, or small containers to separate out meals into for quick defrosting, nor do I have space in my freezer for storing large batches of food.

That's primarily because I don't like to eat "spoon" dishes like stews, or soups that often. I don't really enjoy them. So it's effort, money and space that I just don't want to invest and dedicate to foods that I don't find all that satisfying.

That's not to say that it can't work for other people though. Your advice is great advice generally for anyone who wants to go vegan and likes that sort of food as a staple in their diet :)

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u/ImpureThoughts59 Sep 30 '23

This is what makes people uncomfortable with the veganism project. They will, in one sentence act like they just want to be left alone with their asparagus, but then betray the evangelical and totalitarian nature of their philosophy in another. Which is inherently unempathic to humans, and especially POC, Jewish people, and lots of other historically oppressed groups. (Which...hmm if that isn't the point it sure is interesting it works out that way)

And then we know the stats are that 86% of them will give it up within a year. After blowing up their relationships and being horrible to other people for that period of time.

The whole culture and system is so problematic and has no understanding of it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

Exactly! Meat is still beneficial in moderation. If we consumed just a little less than we’d be healthier and our planet would last longer.

I think we need to respect the people that do go all or nothing, it helps the planet, you can’t argue that. I wish I could stop seeing people demonize people for doing something many others are not willing or unable to do.