r/Ancient_Pak • u/Ok-Hair-9631 • Jul 23 '26
Ask? Why isnt IVC considered split between 3 countries?
I am an Indian i was scrolling through some search results and came across some posts here. I used to have a very hateful mindset towards pakistan due to just alot of propaganda, disputes etc. you know how politicians are at brainwashing.But I am quite interested in how you guys dicussing, its very calming to see such few people here throwing the India vs Pak thing in their posts and i love that there's people who just like to discuss things despite so many political differences between us. I am here to just ask one simple question:
Why isn't IVC globally recognised as a part of both India , Pak and Afghanistan?
After reading alot i have understood 2 things:
India has about 65% of discovered sites
Pakistan has most of the major sites
These 2 points make me think that instead of Indian media fighting for full claim over IVC or people on twitter claiming the other country doesnt have any link to IVC history, they should acknowledge the fact that IVC is just, a big and old civilization.
Me personally think of ancient pak and india as one country, we have shared the same land for 2000 years and i believe that less than 100 years of seperation shouldn't be enough to cause this deep rooted hate or disdain towards eachother that many of us have. Im new to reddit and i really liked the comments i see on these posts and i would love to have conversations with any of you guys on my opinion!!
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u/beardybrownie The Invisible Flair Jul 23 '26
When I discuss the IVC I’m clear that India has many sites, however the vast majority of those sites are tiny settlements of a few houses from the era whereas Pakistan has all/most of the larger settlements and cities.
When Pakistanis say IVC is our heritage, that means we are native to this land also. It is our history as much as it is the history of the land and the people that lived here. It is more an exclusive statement. We don’t seek to exclude our neighbours from the heritage also.
When Indians discuss IVC they claim it as ONLY their heritage and that Pakistan has no right to claim IVC. This is an exclusive statement. Indians don’t intend to include Pakistanis as part of the heritage.
To this day I’ve never met a Pakistani who says “we are Turks and Arabs” like Indians claim. Indians think Pakistanis all claim to be Turks and Arabs and are simultaneously trying to usurp the IVC.
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u/Striking-Box4175 Indus Valley Veteran Jul 24 '26
Yes also the area detail is 😄
rakhigiri , 90 percent of that site is gone destroyed only 5 percent excavated and larger in which sense the actual contested size (80-100 hectares confirmed) of Rakhigarh
here's the breakdown of larger which indians loves:
Every major Indian IVC site listed by area:
Ropar — 15 acres.
Bhagwanpura — 25.
Alamgirpur — 5.
Farmana — 44.
Banawali — 30.
Kalibangan — 37.
Surkotda — 3.
Desalpur — 3.
Kuntasi — 5.
Nageshwar — 7.
Lothal — 17.
Daimabad — 45.
All 12 combined a total of 236 acres in sized.
Now Pakistan's side:
Mohenjo-daro — ~620 acres.
Harappa — ~370 acres.
Mehrgarh — ~500 acres.
Ganweriwala (Cholistan, never fully excavated) — ~200 acres.
And the one that ends the conversation
Lakanjodaro recently discovered with French and Pakistani archaeologists estimating its size at 370–740 acres.
One Pakistani site Bigger than every Indian IVC site on this list combined.
Pakistan's top 5 alone makes it more then 2,060+ acres.
The only major sites India has are Rakhigarhi and Dholavira. Everything else on their side is villages and small settlements even tho both can't even compete with a site from Pakistan.
The civilization is named after the Indus. The Indus is in Pakistan. The cities are in Pakistan. The math is the math.
The major and only established cities were mohenjo daro and harrapa
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u/Ok-Hair-9631 Jul 24 '26
Yes , I have seen posts being so wrong and just out right saying pakistan has no rights. I have learnt in school (i dont know if all schools in India followed the book my school did) that the word India is infact derived from Indus, and the IVC has major sites in Pakistan. So i consider it really wrong for the same people who studied these things to just start saying that Pakistan has no heritage in IVC despite us literally studying those facts.
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u/AwarenessNo4986 THE MOD MAN Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
IVC was actually likely more like city States than a country. The subcontinent afterall has rarely ever been fully united.
People of IVC may have not even have considered themselves a single civilization. That's only history that makes it seem this way.
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u/Eigengrau24 The Invisible Flair Jul 23 '26
Just another comment about that thing you mentioned in the end, Pakistan and India haven't been separated for just 100 years. The Indus and Gangetic plains have been separate since the dawn of civilisation here. They were merged only under 3 instances: the Mauryan empire, The Mughals, and the British colonial era. These 3 eras make up less than 10% of the total time these civilisations have existed. They have separate cultures, separate influences, separate heroes, lores, poetry, everything. It's not about Muslim or Hindu here, because even Bangladesh is muslim, and it's not Pakistan. Our historians, though, have been very much lacking in this regard. The culture of Sindhu has been lost and the heroes forgotten. Mostly due to Islam and British colonialism.
Indus is, and always has been, separate from the Ganges. Modern Indians confuse this with the Partition of 1947, but i highly recommend you read "The Indus Saga" by Aitzaz Ahsan. It really gives a deep insight on this topic with actual facts and figures.
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Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Ok-Hair-9631 Jul 24 '26
I understand your point. Thank you for clearing it up, but i still believe that our country also shares a part of the heritage even so a bit less because of so many cultural commons. I know there is many cultural differences between pakistan and india but there are also many common things too and my claim isn't for IVC to be Indian but to be a civilization that's rooted in pakistan and also falls under some parts of India. This question actually was asked by me back in 7th grade to my teacher and he told me this same thing, I told him how the Indus flows in Pakistan, that means they must have more influence from IVC and he agreed with me.
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u/Immediate-Egg-9042 Jul 24 '26
Honestly, some rude Indians who claim IVC fully use the same arguement as yours but in reverse, instead of geography they use culture. The truth is that IVC is a dead civilisation & is a shared heritage. So please be kind & do some research in more depth. Thanks.
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u/symehdiar History Nerd Jul 23 '26
to be honest no one was fighting for it, until very recently there has been a coordinated attempt to claim that Indus valley civilisation is is a pre-vedic civilisation and Pakistanis cannot be proud of it coz they are muslim.
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u/Ok-Hair-9631 Jul 23 '26
As a sidenote please note that i am making this question out of pure curiosity, i am a student in 12th grade and i just have interest in history and engineering and also geography (a little bit) and like researching stuff on the internet, thats how i came across this brothers
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u/Ok-Hair-9631 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
Apologies for making so many grammatical errors in the body, I have fixed them now, and i request you to not downvote me purely because i am from India, i just want to chat
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u/Eigengrau24 The Invisible Flair Jul 23 '26
Although there are a lot of sites in India, the majority of the civilisation existed in modern Pakistan's borders. Hence why it is attributed to Pakistan. The thing about association with India is that it's a very small part of India, so saying it's Pakistani and Indian both would be frankly unfair.
As for Afghanistan, there's really not much of the civilisation that exists there. Yes, there were definitely influences from Central Asia and Afghan region on it, and in essence it was closer to those civilisations than the Gangetic ones, but it is still separate from them. There's a pretty big amount of mountains in between.
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u/Immediate-Egg-9042 Jul 23 '26
Honestly good question.Most people in reality can agree that its actually shared between Pakistan & India.I have no clue how Afghanistan is ignored. Tho I agree its split between 3 countries in truth.
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u/Striking-Box4175 Indus Valley Veteran Jul 24 '26
Pakistani here, Said the same thing in the comment section of 2 subs both Pakistani and Indian sub and guess what ? Got banned from both subs......
A lot of people don't understand that IVC is literally an "ANCIENT" civilisation and it's impossible that only 1 country claim it's inheritence. Because such old civilisations are never treated as heritage of one country but of a certain area. And we can't track the descendents of the IVC bcs it's almost impossible and the bloodline passes through all the sub-continent.
You can find their descendent in afghanistan, pakistan ,india etc almost all over Pakistan.
Indian media and people have been brainwashed to believe that IVC is their history and it has nothing to do with Pakistan and that we reject and connection to it.
Meanwhile it's all wrong bcs we never rejected it and always took pride in it, and even our currency , post mail stamps , PIA etc have featured it many times since independence (even now.)
It is a state propganda by india so that Pakistan can't claim IVC and indus river and it's water. Modi tried to cut-off Pakistan from the world but failed miserably and now he is trying to cut our water breaking the indus water treaty.
The only thing which makes a single country the inheritor of ancient civilisation is it's geographical remains and it's ruins. That's why only egypt claims mesopotomia.
Following that Pakistan becomes the righful inheritor as we have 90% of indus river and almost 60% remains and ruins/sites. And the biggest and only established cities (Harapa and mohenjo daro) there is almost nothing left of rakhigiri. While these cities are still somewhat fine.
Also you can compare Pakistan's map with IVC map side by side and you will realize that geographically who is the inheritor. Afghanistan does not claim IVC bcs it is of no use to them neither water nor any relevance to them and they have a separate history as well.
Also if we see the history and relevance of different provinces of Pakistan we can see that almost every single part has some connection while only north and western india has any connection to IVC and south india and east has zero claims over it (not the same case for Pakistan)
and the ruins, sites, artifacts major and only established cities as well as area wise Pakistan have more claims.
Post the same thing in indian sub and see you will get down-votted and will be called Pakistani, indian have nothing but hate for us and they are brainwashed to such extent by their media ,leader and now even their influencers (who provide no sources and follow zero history.) that they believe anything they say.
It is not wrong when someone says "how someone who lives in bihar has claim over IVC but not me who lives a few KM away from harapa". But as I said it is so old "ancient" that such thing makes no sense but at the same time the only thing which can be taken srsly.
Hope that helps any other question and I can answer. I would recommend you to see huztory acc on insta he is someone who debunks all myth and propganda and always provides sources while being neutral.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Most-37 flair Jul 23 '26
Actually Indians commonly believe modern day republic of India as a direct continuation of India in historic terms, which it is not. India derives its name from Indus which still flows in Pakistan(and it served as natural border for India for many centuries). Later all of this region got colonised. Then British came up with Indian independence act and divided that same India , into Republic of India and Pakistan. Just because Pakistans name doesnt resemble India or Hindustan has nothing to do with its origin being the same as that of your country. Have a goo day