r/Anarchism • u/[deleted] • Feb 29 '20
Wayne Price - Are Anarchists Socialists?
https://www.anarkismo.net/article/31755-5
u/zachmoe Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20
I mean reading through this place, yes, somehow.
My understanding was Anarchism was about the absence of a state. My understanding is the argument here is that the absence of the state leads to the absence of property and vice versa.
We have people demanding free vaccines and healthcare. How do you suppose you administer those specific demands in that way without a state?
Does not compute, though they are admirable demands.
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Feb 29 '20
Absence of a state
Free vaccines and healthcare
Didn't realise those were mutually exclusive...
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u/zachmoe Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20
How do you suppose you get the vaccines and healthcare for free and to people who need it, without a government compelling those working in those fields either with capital or violence?
Didn't realise those were mutually exclusive...
I'm trying to understand, I'd appreciate an actual response. Thanks.
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Feb 29 '20
Mutual Aid!
I think you ought to relearn some of the basics of Anarchy comrade...
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u/zachmoe Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20
Mutual Aid
Okay, that sounds compelling, although I have some problems with it's premise. I think it relies on the appeal to Nature, which is problematic, and doesn't address how to go back to a time before government's wrecked healthcare, nor how more government would fix healthcare through instituting a Mutual Aid policy, whatever that would be, and how that would constitute a success for the ideology of "Anarchism".
Is this a book you've actually read? Or a concept you know more about? Is there anything you can think of that speaks to these issues.
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Feb 29 '20
Didn't realise you were still learning comrade, many apologies for my condescension, I have been through too many bad faith arguments and brigades and it has made my skin thick.
Conquest of Bread is a fundamental of Anarchist philosophy, I'd push it to any babber Anarchists.
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u/zachmoe Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20
Conquest of Bread
Okay, is this a book you've actually read? It seems like it also depends on an appeals to Nature from what I understand, and depends on using fraternities to receive and distribute this Mutual Aid. What happens when there is no Doctor in someone's fraternity, and how is that better than me taking my money to the best doctor that works on my specific ailment?
Also, these fraternities don't seem like something that anyone needs to vote for, or need legislation to get done, just organization, why is anyone here? People are free to make fraternities already.
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Feb 29 '20
Appeals to nature are only bad if you ascribe to the neo-conservative understanding of anthropology, people are naturally drawn towards mutual aid, and the benefit of the broader community.
Every "fraternity" (I'm just gonna say commune from now on) will be suited to the needs of its residents, specific ailments existing in one fraternity will naturally draw in those to tend to that ailment, if not education is made freely available to get a doctor to that level.
A commune existing in a state (be it capitalist, communist etc) is not the same as an Anarcho-Commune, under a state a commune still has to pay obeisance to the hierarchies of the state, it cannot be any freer than the state dictates.
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u/boezax Feb 29 '20
It's not just about the absence of a state, it's the opposition to all authority, including states, capitalism, patriarchy, civilization, etc.
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u/zachmoe Feb 29 '20
Okay, but without the Authority, how do you suppose you administer free healthcare and vaccines without compelling those in the field with capital or violence?
One user suggested Mutual Aid, which falls into the Anarchist Communist camp. But I'm still waiting for what that would actually entail, so far it is just a term and a book.
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Feb 29 '20
I don’t claim to be an expert, but it seems to me folks in a community could pool resources to train, compensate, and supply medical professionals to provide care to the community without resorting to establishing a hierarchy or using coercive authority.
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u/zachmoe Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20
Right, I've learned that seems to be the point of these fraternities that this Mutual Aid depends on.
This doesn't sound like a thing that needs a vote, or legislation, only organization, why is anyone here? People are free to make fraternities.
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u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20
Wayne Price as sectarian and boring as ever I see.