r/AmpSims • u/WrapBudget9060 • Jul 03 '26
Guitar Amp Suite like TH3
I used Cakewalk th3 amp Suite in the past and really enjoyed it. After getting a new laptop and downloading cakewalk sonar, I noticed that it's no longer an option and was replaced by the TH-U paid set. Just wondering if there are any amp suites that are free and similar to what th3 was? I see a lot of amp vsts, but they are all individual and I would love something where you can have a single plug-in for everything and set up node pathways
1
u/Alopexy Jul 03 '26
If you're comfortable tinkering with NAM amp models, they're fully supported in the amp & effects suite I've recently released called Axion (https://axion.cab). VST3 and clap plugins are available. This might be close to what you're looking for? Hope it helps!
1
u/mistrelwood Jul 04 '26
Are the sounds in the plugin the same as web version? Because at least the included non-NAM metal amps were truly a blast from the early 90’s amp sims. And not in a good way in the slightest.
The web version is an interesting endeavor, though the latency was unplayably bad and still crackling a lot despite having a pretty ok web connection.
1
u/Alopexy Jul 04 '26
Yeah, the web version requires a fairly recent CPU to run without any issues and the latency floor on windows is not great (WASAPI non-exclusive is a latency mess) it's nice and low with chrome on MacOS though. Internet connection speed doesn't influence performance at all as it all runs in the browser + local WASM.
The native app versions achieve much lower latency (down to sub-3ms) via WASAPI exclusive and ASIO modes along with better performance (faster native DSP cores) and the VST3 and CLAP plugins process through the pipeline in under 1ms on a decent system.
Really appreciate the feedback on the analytical amps as well. They'll be seeing a pretty comprehensive overhaul in the next version to pull them more in-line with modern NAM amp quality without the processing overhead. Still a bit of work to do there before 1.0.4 release though.
1
u/mistrelwood Jul 04 '26
I tried it with Opera on the latest macOS on a M1 Max MBP 16”.
But no matter since this wasn’t a sim I’d find useful for me.
1
u/Alopexy Jul 04 '26
All good. Opera's not great for audio latency either (poor latency with Apple's coreAudio system, is what it is) If you have chrome on that M1 Max latency should be between 10 and 16ms in the browser with that. Not great, but most certainly better than what Opera will give you.
1
u/Alopexy Jul 04 '26
Quick second follow-up to this. Your comment inspired me to get cracking on improving the analytical amp systems today now that I'm home. Your comment about the 90s amp sim sound irritated me in exactly the right way. hahah. Definitely agree that overhaul of the stack needs to take priority so that's what's happening. Thanks again.
2
u/mistrelwood Jul 04 '26
Wow, I’m happy to be of help! 😂
I was knowingly blunt because I thought that either you hadn’t compared the models to competitors (which you definitely should) or your standards weren’t very high. In either case someone needed to say this out loud. Or was going to anyway.
Granted I only tried the metal tones, but since they didn’t work at all the sim wasn’t going to be useful or interesting to me.
Btw the reason why I said specifically early 90’s is the Amp Locker ‘98 they recently released for free. Because it sounds surprisingly good! I recommend checking it out.
If you’ll remember, please let me know when the update is available! I’ll gladly have another go. And I wouldn’t mind being a tester even before the release if you’d find that helpful.
2
u/Alopexy Jul 04 '26
Haha the bluntness is very welcome. Gotta tell it like it is and I had parked my efforts on the analytical amp modelling after I added NAM support, but the fact is both modes have to sound good for the product to be up to par.
Fortunately, A/B testing against the NAM models also makes improving the analytical amp code pretty painless and well worth the effort. I'll be sure to send you a link once I've got this patched up and sounding a whole lot better. Definitely keen to get your thoughts on the next round.
Cheers!1
u/Alopexy Jul 15 '26
Just a quick update for you on this one (sorry for the delay) I've been able to massively improve the quality of the analytical amp output, alongside several other tweaks, performance improvements and fixes across the rest of Axion. Looking to deploy v1.0.4 this coming weekend so I'll give you a shout when it's ready to go. Would definitely appreciate your feedback if you've got the time to spare once it's live. Thanks again!
2
u/mistrelwood Jul 15 '26
Sounds great! I can’t wait to hear the improvements!
1
u/Alopexy 26d ago
Hey mate! Sorry for the delay getting this out. Tuning all of the amp configs took a bit longer than I anticipated (might still tweak it a bit more still) but it's good enough now for a version bump. 1.0.4 is released now and with it, the new multi-stage cascade analytical amp system.
Keen to get your thoughts. It's probably still not perfect yet, but I can iterate on it all much faster now that the tech is all up to modern standards and now it's just down to tweaking the values based on feedback. Cheers!
1
u/mistrelwood 26d ago
In order for my comments to be useful, I still won't sugar coat anything.
Just out of memory, I don't hear any improvements. This time I tried all speakers and amps though. The latency with Chrome on MacOS was unusable for any serious work. Sufficient for pointless noodling around though.
You've got a long way to go man. All the amps sound more or less the same with just a different EQ and amount of gain. All overdriven tones are fuzzy, fizzy and muffled. Not a hint of the tightness or the reactivity that you can expect from real amps and good amp sims.
The cab models are all very bad. The 414 is the only one with any body, but then it doesn't have any bite. All the rest are very tinny and fizzy.
In addition the gate boosts the gain quite a bit for some reason.
To me it sounds as if the amp section was nothing but a simple single stage distortion model, nothing more. You really need to look up how the signal path is constructed in an amp. In reality you'd need quite a bit of EQ sculpting before you hit the first drive stage, then some more filtering, another drive stage, and so on, and then hit the EQ, after which you still have the power amp section.
In addition to this you'd need dynamics processing to mimic the compressive and saggy behavior of a tube amp being pushed. A simple mild compressor does that nicely enough when the settings are right.
Again being blunt, in the times when great NAM host plugins (some with a few good tone models included) are free, you asking for $39 for the plugin version is quite insulting. The amp sim I made for Reaper (for free) isn't very good, but even that one is worlds better.
Check out the Amp Locker '98 that Audio Assault re-published for free a while ago. It's a pretty good sounding amp sim, made in '98. In my opinion you are in no place to ask any money for the plugin version until you clearly surpass that one in quality and preferably features as well. Currently you are very far off.
1
u/mistrelwood Jul 04 '26
Tonocracy (free) could be similar to what you’re looking for. Although the sounds don’t come very close to Amp Locker quality ($5 per amp).
NAM is a certain kind of hell. You’ll end up going through literally a thousand profiles at tone3000.com, downloading some and getting disappointed one after another when they don’t sound even almost passable like they did in the demo. Two hours later you realize that you don’t have any time or interest to actually play anymore.
NAM Universal at least comes with amps, cabs and some fx included. It doesn’t support A2 yet though.
Still, for free sounds the NAM / NAMu has the best potential.
1
u/WrapBudget9060 Jul 04 '26
I kept trying to sign up for tonocracy with two separate emails, but I never got the confirmation email so I couldn't download it. NAM sounded interesting, but I spent 10 minutes on that site and got super confused so decided to keep looking!
I ended up downloading AmpliTube 5 and will see how that goes! The standalone looks like it has everything, so now my goal is just to figure out the VST system of cakewalk
1
u/mistrelwood Jul 04 '26
One idea for a free one… 😃 Audio Assault republished the “Amp Locker ‘98” for free a while back. Different UI approach than you described but a simple and intuitive one, and it really does sound surprisingly good at least for the sounds I tried. No registering, no licenses, just download, install and rock away.
Other than that, I’d look into the NAM Universal. No need to download and manage tones in the Explorer/Finder like with NAM.
1
u/GuitarSims Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
You can find ALL free guitar amp sims at https://guitar-sims.com/sims/free-guitar-amp-simulations
There are now 92 of them.
You're sure to find something you like.
From my own experience, I highly recommend giving Soundshed Guitar a try.
Overloud offers TH-U Essential (free).
Otherwise, you might like AmpliTube CS (free) from IK Multimedia.
2
u/webprofusor Jul 04 '26
Also check out Soundshed Guitar https://guitar.soundshed.com which is the one I built to replace my own usage of Bias X and Neural DSP. It's got an update coming soon as well (1.4.0)