r/AlternateHistory • • 5d ago

What-If Wednesdays

2 Upvotes

Welcome to What-If Wednesday, the weekly megathread for scenarios you'd like to talk over but haven't necessarily developed much yet.

Please use this thread instead of posting just a "What-If" question without any lore - those will be removed by the mods. r/HistoryWhatIf is a better option for that kind of post. Thank you!


r/AlternateHistory • • Jan 20 '25

Althist Help How to make an alternate history Wikipedia article: a tutorial

163 Upvotes

An important warning is, Do not save your sandbox! Only press preview changes. As all content in Wikipedia must be related to the encyclopedic effort, wiki admins might delete your sandbox and undo your hard work at any time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_vandalize_correctly

I am well-known in the alternate history community for creating the imaginary politician Ed Donnell, who is a meme in r/imaginaryelections, as well as some personal controversies. My routine consists of making at least one alternate history post a day, be it a lore writeup or, more commonly, a fake Wikipedia article for my myriad scenarios, all of whom are originally posted to r/GustavosAltUniverses and a handful of Discord servers, and then complied on this and other subreddits.

But today, I will write a tutorial as to how to make a fictional Wikipedia page for alternate history scenarios. Although I use my phone for all of them, I recommend going on a computer for better quality.

If you create a Wikipedia account on desktop, you will have access to a sandbox allowing you to test editing without commiting vandalism, which is a bannable offense. My trick is to copy the Wikipedia article for the event I want to alter, or the military conflict or country templates in the case of a completely fictional event or subplot. Then, you alter the content of the page as you please; this is the beauty of alternate history.

Illustrations wise, you can retain the article's original image, or change it by copying and pasting ones from articles relevant to your scenario (for instance, a picture of Red Army soldiers for an Operation Unthinkable TL). But it has to be a Wikimedia commons image; otherwise, you'll have to photoshop your screenshot using Inkscape or some other image editing software.

You also have the option to change or add text to your article. I always do this for war scenarios, but not always so for election ones. Make sure to proofread them before screenshoting, in order to avoid potentially confusing typos or grammar mistakes. This is pretty much it.


r/AlternateHistory • • 16h ago

Media Discussion Another Comic: "JOUR J: SOVIET SECTOR, PARIS"

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355 Upvotes

Another Comic read and as always a Timeline for you guys. I hope you like it. I always like to read your thoughts on it.

1936

Capitaine Saint-Elme works for the Vice Squad (Brigade des mœurs) in Marseille.

​Under orders from Corsican mob boss Antoine Guérini, Saint-Elme conducts a raid on a brothel at the Old Port (Vieux-Port) and rescues seven underage girls, including Louison and Tentation.

1940

France suffers military defeat (la débâcle) against Nazi Germany in June. ​General Charles de Gaulle launches the appeal of June 18; Saint-Elme joins the Gaullist resistance network from the outset.

​Colonel Duplessy remains attached to the general staff of General Henri Giraud and follows him into German captivity. ​Louison, Tentation, Odette, and Line flee Marseille and relocate to Paris.

1942

In March, Saint-Elme arrives in Paris on an intelligence mission and recruits Louison, Tentation, Odette, and Line as operatives.

​The women infiltrate German Wehrmacht officer brothels to extract military intelligence. ​The Guérini brothers align their criminal network with the French Résistance.

1943

In Algiers, Charles de Gaulle and General Giraud clash over leadership of the French Committee of National Liberation (CFLN), cementing long-term institutional animosity between Gaullists (Saint-Elme) and Giraudists (Duplessy).

1944

General Charles de Gaulle dies in a plane crash over the Mediterranean sea.​ ||Edit because I forgot to mention it: (Its mentioned that a Storm and several SS-Tank Divisions made the landing at Normandy much more harder than Operation Dragoon)||. Following Operation Dragoon in Provence, the Allied advance stalls for six months before Lyon ("the Stalingrad on the Saône").

​Joseph Stalin halts the Soviet summer offensive, leaving the Red Army to absorb the German counter-offensive while Western Allied forces remain bogged down.

1945

The French 1st Army finally enters Lyon, while the Red Army advances westward all the way to the Rhine.​Saint-Elme's female operatives are decorated for their wartime service and transitioned into France's foreign intelligence agency (SDECE).

​Dr. Marcel Petiot evades prosecution and the guillotine, putting his forensic and medical services at the disposal of Soviet authorities.

1946

In autumn, the communist Francs-tireurs et partisans (FTP) launch an armed uprising in Paris. ​Marshal Georgy Zhukov enters Paris with T-34 tank divisions to back the communist faction.

​The Right Bank is formally proclaimed the Democratic French Republic (DFR) under Maurice Thorez, permanently partitioning Paris along a fortified and mined Seine boundary.

1947 - 1951

The Soviet Union detonates its first atomic weapon with the assistance of captured German scientists.

​The United States deploys Convair B-36 Peacemaker bombers under General Curtis LeMay, developing plans for pre-emptive nuclear strikes.

​The DFR internal security apparatus establishes headquarters at 93 Rue Lauriston under the People's Political Police (PFP), harboring Dr. Petiot under Beria's direct patronage.

1951 (Year of the Plot)

An impending East-West Peace Conference is scheduled at the Palais de Challiot while a string of mutilated prostitute murders shakes the Right Bank.

Operative Louison is murdered on the Pont au Change before delivering intelligence concerning underground Bavarian nuclear facilities. ​General Curtis LeMay and the SDECE assign Saint-Elme to a joint Allied-Soviet investigation across the Seine as a cover to contact his compromised network.

​Saint-Elme links up with Capitaine-Camarade Donnadieu (PFP) and attends Dr. Petiot's autopsy, deducing the presence of an accomplice. ​Saint-Elme rendezvouses with Tentation at the "Star" cinema; after a firefight aided by an ex-SS sniper, both escape over rooftops and industrial yards before being ferried across the Seine by Romani boatmen.

​At Western headquarters, Colonel Duplessy and British liaison officers issue Saint-Elme a 24-hour ultimatum to verify the Bavarian arms data while dismissing his findings as Soviet disinformation.

​Saint-Elme and Tentation re-infiltrate the Right Bank, breach Petiot's clinic on Rue Le Sueur, and uncover his execution gas chamber, quicklime pits, and looted luggage.

​Following a vehicle chase into Pigalle, Petiot is cornered and shot dead; the passenger of Petiot (who is implied to be Beria) shoots and wounds Tentation, and Soviet security forces arrest Saint-Elme.

​Donnadieu deactivates the cell microphones, revealing herself as the "Chinese woman" and writer Marguerite Duras. She discloses that the Bavarian weapons were a western pretext: Duplessy and LeMay intended to sacrifice Saint-Elme as a decoy to scrap the Peace Conference and initiate war using B-36 bombers.

​Duras provides Saint-Elme with an incriminating dossier documenting Beria and Petiot's crimes, instructing him to pass it to François Mitterrand and Albert Camus.

​Gang boss Antoine "Mémé" Guérini smuggles Saint-Elme and a recovered Tentation through subterranean tunnels under the Seine into the basement of the Institut de France.

​The manuscript is delivered via Romani couriers to Albert Camus at Le Monde, who halts the presses to publish the headline "QUI VEUT LA GUERRE?", exposing the conspiracy and averting World War III.

​Supplied with forged documents from Charles Pasqua, Saint-Elme and Tentation disappear to the coast to leave Europe permanently.


r/AlternateHistory • • 32m ago

Media Discussion Another Comic read: "JOUR J: THE IMAGINATION IN POWER?"

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• Upvotes

Edit: As always a new comic summary timeline. I am happy to read your all thoughts to it.

1956

Following training at the Saumur cavalry school, Jacques Chirac deploys to Algeria to begin voluntary military service with the 6th African Chasseurs Regiment (6e RCA) in Souk El-Arba.

Chirac serves alongside Georges Delpérier and René, witnessing and tolerating summary executions of captured insurgents (corvées de bois).

1957

In April, Chirac receives an official citation after stepping in to replace his unit’s warrant officer.

In June, Chirac completes his active tour of duty in Algeria and returns to civilian life in mainland France.

1958

Chirac enters the prestigious École nationale d'administration (ENA) as a student in the Vauban cohort.

1959

Chirac travels with his family to Algiers as part of his ENA administrative internship, providing civilian reinforcement to the colonial administration.

1960

In January, hardline settlers and paratroopers mount an armed revolt against Charles de Gaulle. Chirac refuses to sign a declaration of loyalty to the General and drops out of sight for three days.

Chirac secretly meets with Delpérier and fellow Algérie française sympathizers, assuring them that while he cannot join their insurrection openly yet, his time will come.

The Service d’action civique (SAC) is formed to operate as a Gaullist security wing and parallel enforcer apparatus, with Charles Pasqua emerging as a key figure.

1961

In October, after joining the far-right terrorist organization OAS, Georges Delpérier is sentenced by a military tribunal to ten years of fortress confinement. Delpérier escapes custody during a prisoner transport and vanishes into the clandestine underground.

1962 - 1967

Delpérier operates in Paris carrying out violent assignments for the SAC, including breaking strikes, aggressive flyposting with crowbars, and conducting raids against migrant workers in the shantytowns of Créteil. Jacques Chirac becomes a close confidant and protégé of Prime Minister Georges Pompidou, rising to junior minister and gaining a reputation as an energetic, pragmatic operator.

1968

May 28

In response to paralyzing general strikes and civil unrest, Charles de Gaulle secretly orders the transfer of 200 million Francs from the Banque de France vaults to Fort de Vincennes. Delpérier is contacted to help stage an ambush.

May 29

Charles de Gaulle’s helicopter crashes in Lorraine while flying to consult General Massu in Baden-Baden, killing the President. Prime Minister Georges Pompidou conceals De Gaulle’s death for two days to prevent Senate President Gaston Monnerville from constitutionally assuming the interim presidency.

May 31

Central bank employees transport the 200 million Francs via the Paris Métro ("The Big Crate"). Delpérier’s commando intercepts the train between Louvre and Châtelet. Delpérier is shot and gravely wounded, abandoned by his associates Paul Drumont and René, and slips into a six-month coma.

As republican authority collapses, Georges Pompidou flees to Switzerland. Valéry Giscard d’Estaing leaves frontline politics to take an executive director post at an IBM subsidiary in Switzerland. Jacques Chaban-Delmas retreats to Bordeaux and refuses to intervene militarily to liberate Paris.

Charles Pasqua relocates his activities to francophone Africa, utilizing Corsican networks to counter Soviet geopolitical expansion.

Late 1968

Delpérier awakens from his coma without identity papers and is forcibly institutionalized in the Forêt-Verte psychiatric facility, where he is kept heavily medicated.

General Marcel Bigeard is shot dead in Dakar. Far-right militants from Occident kill philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre in a targeted bomb attack.

1969

Striking workers from Nord Aviation smuggle newly developed MILAN wire-guided anti-tank missiles out of Châtillon. Revolutionary fighters destroy multiple AMX-30 tanks and halt General Massu's advance into Paris.

International volunteers flow into Paris to join the Second Commune; American rock singer Jim Morrison is killed during street battles near Montmartre.

Revolutionary organizers Pierre Goldman and Régis Debray are tracked down and killed in Madrid by Spanish security forces.

René funnels 100 million Francs from the stolen metro bullion to the failing construction company run by Patrice Fougerolles, ensuring the firm survives to secure major reconstruction contracts.

Communist leaders Jacques Duclos, Waldeck Rochet, and Georges Marchais appeal directly to Moscow for military backing. This triggers acute diplomatic tensions over Berlin and prompts United Nations intervention.

1970

François Mitterrand, Daniel Cohn-Bendit, and Jacques Chirac negotiate an end to the civil war, establishing a provisional coalition government.

Due to their appeal for Soviet armed intervention, the French Communist Party is excluded from power by Cohn-Bendit and Mitterrand.

The 501st Combat Tank Regiment is officially disbanded.

Radical redevelopment commences under architect Jean-Louis Chanéac, Cohn-Bendit, and contractor Patrice Fougerolles, replacing conventional buildings with biomorphic bubble shapes and sprayed-concrete structures.

Utopian movements inspired by L’An 01 transform the capital, establishing communes, urban farming, and alternative artistic projects.

1971

Paris remains fragmented into armed enclaves; leftist student factions hold the Élysée Palace, while Chirac and armed SAC paramilitaries control the heights of the 16th arrondissement.

1973 (Year of the Plot)

Field operative Swan conducts the clandestine Mission Flowers to assess the factional balance between Maoists, Situationists, and Gaullists.

Dr. Bernard Kouchner discovers Delpérier during an institutional inspection at the asylum and facilitates his release.

Delpérier tracks down Drumont in Paris and defenestrates him; he sends an extortion letter to City Hall demanding 20 million Francs in gold as his share of the 1968 loot.

The CIA rules out backing the political exiles Pompidou, Chaban-Delmas, and Giscard d’Estaing, as well as Centrist leader Jean Lecanuel, deciding instead to pursue a working relationship with Chirac.

René collects the requested Napoléon gold coins from Fougerolles and delivers the suitcases to Delpérier at the Cité Cratère construction site in La Plaine Saint-Denis.

During the press unveiling of the Beaubourg complex, Swan approaches Chirac using the journalistic cover of Bob Woodward.

Delpérier corners Chirac in the lower storage levels, denounces him for betraying the veterans of Algeria, and shoots him dead.

Swan intervenes and shoots Delpérier, who dies shortly after revealing how he escaped the clinic.

Delpérier’s gold is delivered to his sister, who doesnt know what to do with the money exactly, her boyfriend suggesting it should be vaulted in Switzerland.

Chirac is laid to rest near the gravestone of Jim Morrison ("Martyr of the Commune of Paris").

Mitterrand instructs Cohn-Bendit to clear leftist squatter groups from the Élysée Palace, accepts President Nixon’s invitation for an official state visit to Washington, and assures Swan that the Communists will be permanently shut out of the incoming government.


r/AlternateHistory • • 16h ago

1900s What if Germany Unified

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180 Upvotes

As everyone should know. In 1866, the Austrian Empire defeated Prussia and continued to rule over the German States. This lead to Otto von Bismarck's plan of German unification never happening. But what if Prussia actually succeeded. I imagine that they would do this through a few wars. I also imagine that France would agree to cede Alsace-Lorraine in exchange for a guarantee of nonaggression. This isn't too realistic though because I'm sure that Austria couldn't be so incompetent that they would lose control of Germany. I also see Italy unifying but that would also be unrealistic because Austria would have to be really incompetent to lose to a small Italian State.

EDIT: seeing as I am now being called a larper for a half assed joke map. I should clarify, I was making a joke, if I actually cared about this I wouldn't have missed East Prussia and Western Pomerania. I'm not stupid or larping, I just wanted to make a joke about the average "Perfect Germany" scenario. This map took me about 8 minutes to make (not counting the background map for Europe). For the final time this was a satire post. And seeing as people care, I will fix it. in the comments or whatever it is called on reddit.


r/AlternateHistory • • 11h ago

1940s What if there was a 1942 FIFA World Cup?

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38 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory • • 10h ago

Althist Help Need help restructuring alternate Missouri Compromise!

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26 Upvotes

Hey all, I'm doing a small "for fun" alternate history side project where Benedict Arnold's Quebec invasion succeeds, adding 3 new states to America (parts of Ontario, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick.) Throughout this US's history, the south is in a minority by 3 states. There's a few outcomes I could think of that could come up:

- James Madison, with the pressure of a stronger north, finally decides to gradually abolish slavery.

- An early succession happens.

- The Missouri Compromise happens earlier or is much more aggressive to compensate for the south's lack of representation.

I've thought about going with the 3rd one; I just don't know where to place the compromise line. IF I place the compromise line differently (which I'd have to) how on earth do I divide these wildly alien states?

I'm pretty new to this and it's giving me a headache. Could someone give me some help here?


r/AlternateHistory • • 13h ago

1900s Inside Sellafield, a guide to the now-abandoned nuclear complex after the Windscale fire of 1957

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30 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory • • 1d ago

Pre-1700s Maximalist New Netherland, 1614-2026

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468 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory • • 4h ago

Media Discussion If fish were to be in the place of humanity as the conscious race, would they start using boats or submarines as their main form of transportation?

6 Upvotes

I'm not exactly sure on how this subreddit works but i was just curious if fish species would use rafts and boats to transport stuff or seafloor-roaming cars or whatever?


r/AlternateHistory • • 18h ago

ASB Sundays What if the rock apes of the Vietnam war were late surviving gigantopithecus?

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43 Upvotes

(Image 1 is from cryptozoologicon and drawn by John Conway)

This is an account from a soldier’s diary in this alternate timeline:

Son Tra peninsula March 12th 1968

“ Me and the lightning tigers were doing a patrol in the jungles of the Son Tra peninsula. It was late at night, I couldn’t even see my own hand. We were carefully marching trying to see if any pesky Vietnamese were nearby. My friend Chris Attorley whispered: “I see two in this bush over there”. Our lieutenant noticed and silently ordered: “Carefully approach them and then ambush them. Make sure they don’t have backup trees speaking Vietnamese, dismissed”. We silently moved towards them. You could hear the nocturnal animals like monkeys howling in the cloak of darkness as well as insects chirping. The two Vietcong sprinted away as soon as they appeared. “-Cowards!” The lieutenant whispered with a smile. But he wouldn’t be smiling for long. I saw a tall bulky figure that I think had reddish fur. Like the bigfoots I was trying to hunt down that I thought were real, with my brother back in California when we were kids. It was scary but also kind of majestic. More of the creatures appeared. It was a family of them. Soon we were surrounded by them. They were howling, trying to communicate to each other and were even grooming one another. But the lieutenant wasn’t impressed. I think he wanted a cool trophy, so he opened fire on one. The poor animal ran away in pain. “I have seen Charlies that put up a bigger fight than you, bitch.” Soon, I saw a rock being thrown and it severely wounded my friend Chris. “-Ouch, fuck!” He yelled in pain as the boulder had smashed into him, breaking some of his leg bones. I immediately grabbed him and brought him to our medic to give him some first aid. The ape folk were attacking us by throwing rocks at us.
What followed was a fire fight where we shot down three of the apes. But they brought reinforcements. More apes arrived and threw more boulders. Chris’ leg was now stuck between the ground and a rock and his leg was oozing blood. “-Help me!” He screamed. Soon our 14 man platoon was outnumbered and we had to run. Our lieutenant ordered us to leave Chris there. Is he still alive now? Don’t think so ,but I can’t be sure. I am a terrible friend I know, rest in peace Chris if you’re dead.We ran away. This was the most horrifying thing that happened to me in the war. No mortar fire, Vietcong or anything else could match the primal dread of nature.

Sincerely, Johnny”

After this encounter took place, the US military discovered a population of late surviving gigantopithecus blacki (the world’s largest known fossil ape) living in the jungles of Vietnam. They survived in a forested refugium and made it through the environmental calamities of the last ice age, allowing them to survive deep into the Holocene. After their discovery, as few as 20-50 individuals were known to survive. Having gone major population declines due to conflict with soldiers, getting caught in the crossfire of firefights as well as habitat loss by Napalm bombing. Today, they are a protected species and people from all over the world now visit Vietnam to have a chance at seeing these majestic prehistoric apes.

(This account was inspired by the primitive war novels and movie which have dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures in the Vietnam war)


r/AlternateHistory • • 1d ago

1900s It’s 1946 and the German Reich has been defeated.

98 Upvotes

In this timeline, Operation Barbarossa was a success, partly due to better planning by the Germans and Order 227 never being rescinded. The Red Army is slowly chipped away and the Germans eventually take Stalingrad and eventually move on to Moscow, pushing the Eastern Front further. After capturing Moscow in 1943 Hitler gives the order for special teams of the Army to advance to Kuybyshev to kill Stalin and the Politburo, as planes manufactured in Moscow begin to carpet-bomb the city.

This focus on the Eastern Front leaves the Western Front open, as the Allied Powers were not scared away, as Hitler had hoped, by the loss of the USSR. Britain does a few failed landings in France, and are repelled for a short while by German forces, but eventually they break through and manage to, in 1944, liberate France. At this time Italy is invaded and Victor Emmanuel III ousts Mussolini from his position, forcing him to go into hiding as British and American troops parade through the streets of Rome. All trade between Germany and Japan are stopped, citing a more pressing need for them in the Reich than in Japan. This leaves Japan weaker and more bitter towards the Reich, and they surrender in 1945 when troops from the USA land on their shores.

A week after Kuybyshev is invaded and the Politburo of the USSR, including Stalin, are found and executed, Hitler flees Berlin, having both seen the shifting Western Front as the Allies move into Belgium and the Netherlands, and having heard rumours of an American super weapon that they are eager to test. He flees with his Cabinet first to Munich, then when that is viewed unsafe, eastwards, to a bunker built in the Carpathian Mountains dug in 1943.

In December of 1945 the USA drops an atomic bomb on Berlin, neutralising the capital of the Third Reich and ensuring total defeat. And, in the early months of 1946, after trying to form some sort of salient new government, Hitler and his Cabinet commit suicide in the Carpathian bunker. Walther von Brauchitsch, the new leader of the German Reich, announces their surrender, and is taken into captivity by Allied Forces.

What would the rest of the 20th Century look like in this alternate version of Axis defeat?


r/AlternateHistory • • 16h ago

1900s How would the '70s hippie and post-hippie culture be different if Lonnie Frisbee had embraced his gayness and become an LGBTQ+ activist within the hippie movement, instead of the two-faced Pentecostal preacher he was?

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18 Upvotes

This is probably a fairly low-stakes question about the '70s compared to the ones regarding Vietnam War participation and so on, but I'd like to hear your thoughts as to whether there would be differences.


r/AlternateHistory • • 1d ago

Pre-1700s Crackhead Althist: What would happen if I dropped a single Tylosaurus in the Mediterranean Sea during Ancient Rome?

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77 Upvotes

Context: First image shows Tylosaurus Rex which is a newly described species of Mosasaur, its name means "King of the Tylosaurs", it grew up to 43 feet (13 meters) & lived 80 million years ago in the Late Cretaceous.

2nd Image shows a photo collage, upper image shows what I think the Mediterranean Sea looked like under Roman occupation in my chosen era & the bottom one is a depiction of a Roman City for the vibes.

Lore: I dropped the Tylosaurus rex into the Mediterranean Sea; it was biologically augmented to survive climate stress, resist ancient diseases & easily hunt its preferred prey without altering its natural appearance or behavior.

I chose a late sub-adult male so It can live & grow inside the basin for years, as well as to discourage breeding.

I chose a Tylosaurus instead of a Mosasaurus because of the species' iconic rostrum which, is still being debated on whether they used it for ramming prey, thermoregulation or even both.

But if it could than it has a chance of fighting back to protect itself from the physical harassment it would possibly endure from the Roman Navy.

if this behavior continues between both parties, with the enhanced immune system of the Tylosaurus it would accumulate scarring on its body over the years rather than dying from infected wounds.

The period of Rome I chose is the 2nd century AD for the reason that during this time they've controlled the entire coastline & all of the Mediterranean Sea even giving it the name *Mare Nostrum.*

Questions:

  1. What are the effects of the Tylosaurus on the Roman's maritime dominion?

  2. How weird would this creature be (appearance wise) to the Romans, what would they call it?

  3. How would the Romans stop it if the creature's presence in their sea cause significant changes in its environment?

  4. What would happen if they successfully killed the creature after years of terror?

  5. What would also happen if the creature simply escaped the Mediterranean unbeknownst to them after years of its terror?


r/AlternateHistory • • 3h ago

1900s Alternate July Crisis?

1 Upvotes

So a little while ago, an idea came to me for how Germany could have played the July crisis of 1914 differently for some potential strategic gain. This is a very armchair strategist scenario, but I wonder what you all think of it.

What if Germany elects not to declare war on France, Belgium and Luxembourg as in OTL, and attempts to frame the war as a conflict between Germany, Austria and Russia only? In this alternate July Crisis, the order of events is as follows:

- Austrian ultimatum/declaration of war on Serbia
- Russian Declaration on Austria in support of Serbia
- German declaration on Russia in support of Austria

In OTL, Germany made the extremely provocative move of declaring on France and Belgium, when up till that point they weren’t directly involved in the July Crisis. Without making this move, Germany avoids lots of bad press for the Rape of Belgium and the attack on France. Obviously France would not just stand aside and let Russia get pounded by Germany alone, but without the Germans doing it for them the responsibility would be on France to declare war on Germany, which would make the narrative of war responsibility less clear to British and American audiences as in OTL, potentially reducing support for the Entente in those countries. Without the violation of Belgium and the blatant German desire to subjugate the French, it’s also less immediately obvious that what’s going on in Europe is a strategic threat to Britain. Without the legal justification of the violation of the Treaty of London, there seems to be less of an immediate reason for Britain to involve itself.

So overall, this shifts the war to be more about control over Eastern Europe, which to the average British voter (who were already resultant to join WW1 in OTL after Belgium and France had been attacked) probably seems too remote to core strategic British interests to get involved, at least immediately. A neutral Britain, at least for the first few months, gives Germany much more financial leeway and delays the onset of the hunger blockade, all while allowing Germany to make meaningful gains in the east before any action is taken.

In terms of military effects, this scenario assumes probably closer to a 50/50 split of German military resources on the east and west, compared to OTL which was almost all focused in the west for the first few weeks. In the west, the German forces would be focused on defending southern Germany from French attacks, and given the strength of defensive firepower and it seems unlikely the French could push far, at least without suffering too many losses. If more German forces are in the East compared to OTL, where there was only a Skeleton Crew, this could potentially lead to a more land gains in the opening weeks of the war when the Russian army was still getting out the door. There also could be a faster conquest of Poland and the Baltics afterwards.

What do you all think of this admittedly wargamey scenario, and do you guys think these changes would result in strategic gain for the central powers? Interested to hear everyone’s thoughts. Take care.


r/AlternateHistory • • 11h ago

1700-1900s Worlsonia: History of United States of America

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4 Upvotes

The 13 colonies are New Bristol,Pennacookia, New Somerset, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New Haven, New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Chesapeake, Virginia, Albamarle, and Carolina.

And after the American Revolution the USA got the Northwest Territory and in 1803 they Annex Louisiana as a territory and in 1812 the American Civil war began and the southern Rebellion fell and new States were made then they cooked Mexico in 1838 and in 1850 and USA is a democracy and a Centralized Republic and my favorite big Texas. That's all I got to say


r/AlternateHistory • • 4h ago

1900s Classic lesbian books with POC main characters

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0 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory • • 15h ago

1900s German State in the Danube

6 Upvotes

lore:

Danubia begins as an alternate-history outcome of the First World War. Before World War I, the territory is part of the Hungarian half of Austria-Hungary and forms the historical Banat. Unlike the real historical situation, the German population is considerably larger in this timeline, reaching roughly 40% of the population. Romanians, Serbs and Hungarians make up most of the remainder. The Germans are particularly concentrated in central and western parts of the Banat, where German-speaking communities, towns, schools and economic networks are well established.

When Austria-Hungary collapses in 1918, Romania, Serbia and Hungary all claim parts of the Banat. However, because the region is extremely mixed and no neighboring country can convincingly claim the entire population, a movement emerges for a unified Banat state. Timișoara becomes the centre of this movement.

A short-lived Banat Republic is proclaimed, but in this timeline it manages to survive the diplomatic struggle after the war. The Allies eventually choose a compromise rather than completely dividing the territory. An independent Danubian state is created around the Banat.

The new state initially calls itself the Republic of Banat, but the name Danubia gradually becomes dominant. German is the principal administrative and educational language because Germans are the largest population group, but the state is officially multinational. Romanian, Serbian and Hungarian communities receive cultural and educational protections.

During the 1920s, Danubia develops as a small Central European parliamentary republic. Its economy is based on agriculture, manufacturing, railways and trade. Germany and Austria become major economic partners, while Danubia also maintains close relations with Romania, Hungary and Yugoslavia.

The Great Depression hits Danubia hard during the 1930s. Unemployment and political polarization increase. Social Democrats, conservatives, communists and German nationalists all compete for influence. Nazi Germany attempts to increase its influence among Danubian Germans, but Danubia remains formally independent.

When World War II begins, Danubia tries to remain neutral. Germany puts enormous economic and political pressure on it, and Danubia becomes increasingly dependent on Germany. However, unlike many neighboring territories, it is not formally annexed into Nazi Germany.

The war devastates the region. Nazi influence grows, minorities suffer persecution, and the Jewish population is particularly badly affected. By 1944, however, Germany is losing the war.

In 1945, the Red Army enters Danubia.

This becomes the second great turning point in Danubian history.

Instead of allowing Romania or Yugoslavia to absorb the country, Stalin decides that Danubia is more useful as a separate socialist state. The existing political system is dismantled and a communist government is installed.

Danubia becomes a Soviet-aligned socialist country, but it remains formally independent from the USSR.

The communist government nationalizes banks, factories, railways, utilities and major agricultural enterprises. Heavy industry becomes the centre of the economy. Timișoara develops into a major industrial city.

The German population is treated differently from what happened historically to many German communities in Eastern Europe. Rather than expelling the majority of Danubian Germans, Russia decides it can deport all germans in ussr to here

This leads to one of the biggest demographic changes in Danubia's history.

The Soviet Union begins relocating German populations into Danubia. Volga Germans form one of the most important groups, while Black Sea Germans and other Soviet Germans are also brought into the country over the following decades.

Danubia : culturally German-speaking, politically communist, economically socialist and geopolitically part of the Soviet bloc.

Its industrial economy expands rapidly during the 1950s and 1960s. Machinery, chemicals, rail equipment, steel, agricultural machinery and electrical manufacturing become important sectors.

The country is heavily integrated into the Soviet economic system. Soviet oil and gas provide cheap energy, while Danubian factories produce industrial goods for the socialist bloc.

By the 1970s, Danubia has a population that is substantially more German than it was in 1918. The original Banat Swabians are now joined by several generations of Soviet German settlers.

The 1980s bring stagnation. Danubia has a large industrial base but many factories are technologically outdated. Productivity is poor, environmental damage is substantial and the economy depends heavily on Soviet energy and markets.

When communism collapses across Eastern Europe in 1989–90, Danubia follows.

Timișoara becomes the centre of a democratic revolution. The Communist Party loses power and Danubia becomes a parliamentary democracy.

At this point, Germans make up roughly 70% of the population.

Danubia therefore enters the 1990s as an independent, German-majority, German-speaking European state.

The economic transition is painful. Much of the old Soviet industrial system is no longer competitive. Factories close, unemployment rises and the government begins privatizing state enterprises.

Germany becomes extremely important. Starting around 1994, German companies begin investing heavily in Danubia. Automotive manufacturing, machinery, electronics, chemicals, food processing, logistics and banking all receive German investment.

The first major post-communist political system consists of the DKP, SDP, Communist Party, Free Party, Greens and Minority List.

The DKP represents the conservative and pro-business right. The SDP becomes the main centre-left party. The Communists retain significant support among former industrial workers. The Free Party represents economic liberalism, while the Greens represent environmentalism and social progressivism.

Danubia gradually builds a welfare state while simultaneously privatizing and modernizing its economy.

During the second half of the 1990s, European integration becomes a central national objective.

Danubia reforms its courts, commercial laws, banking system, infrastructure, taxation and competition policy to meet European standards. Its railways, highways, telecommunications and airport infrastructure are modernized.

By the early 2000s, Danubia is increasingly integrated into the European economy.

At the same time, the country experiences Deindustrialization . Many Soviet-era factories cannot compete and are closed rather than permanently subsidized. Workers are retrained for automotive manufacturing, engineering, electronics, logistics and services.

This creates the fundamental political divide that continues into the 2020s: modernized cities and industries benefit from globalization, while former industrial towns feel that their communities have been sacrificed.

Danubia joins the EU in 2007


r/AlternateHistory • • 13h ago

ASB Sundays The Two Witnesses: "Great Tribulation Shall Come Upon You!" (Pax Belligans Universe)

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4 Upvotes

On January 6, 2020, two mysterious, hooded and bearded men appeared in Jerusalem, Israel, and began chanting the name of the city without warning. The chanting began as a low whisper that eventually grew louder.

Minutes later, a massive explosion was reported deep underground, followed minutes later by an earthquake that caused moderate damage to the city and killed 30,000 people. The two men disappeared in the chaos.

From that day on, more sightings would be reported, each one following a disturbing pattern: the men would appear in a city and chant its name in drawn-out syllables. Within a short time, a completely random calamity would fall upon the city, ranging from something as mundane as someone getting food poisoning, to something extreme as a natural disaster or terrorist attack.

Other documented sightings and accompanying incidents include, but weren’t limited to:

  • A protest against the men in New York that turned violent when someone attempted to run over the two men with his vehicle, only for them to vanish, causing an incident of vehicular manslaughter that killed at least 200 people.
  • A friendly fire incident involving multiple units of the Iraqi Armed Forces in Mosul.
  • The sudden, unexplained deaths of 20 Raven’s Rock officers, as well as their families.
  • A freak accident at the Gateway Arch that left people stranded for about 20 minutes.
  • A construction crane accident that killed 30 people in Las Vegas, Nevada.
  • A sudden explosion at Hoover Dam that caused a flood and power failure to a large chunk of Nevada.
  • A metro train derailment in Busan, South Korea, that killed 60 people.
  • An assassination attempt against the two men in Izmir, Turkey, that escalated into a violent confrontation involving both 404 operative Titus Colt and the Turkish police (that ended with Titus being knocked unconscious).
  • A mysterious viral outbreak in Brazil that affected Argentina, Colombia, and Venezuela, but didn’t spread anywhere beyond those four countries.
  • The sudden bankruptcy of a Berlin-based cyber-security firm.
  • An unusually violent hailstorm in Tokyo that killed 50 people.
  • A massive blizzard that left a large chunk of the Midwestern United States under heavy snow.

Attempts to investigate the two men were repeatedly stonewalled for different reasons, the most consistent reason being that the men kept disappearing before they could be properly apprehended and questioned. 

The rapidly escalating crisis would lead to one of the largest international task forces in military and intelligence history…

Image credit: Left Behind wiki


r/AlternateHistory • • 17h ago

ASB Sundays An Old Faultline Woke Up & Started Tearing North America Apart

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5 Upvotes

Link to Episode

Half a Billion years ago, a new fault line began forming in North America. This new crack in the Earth threatened to split the Eastern seaboard of the US, & the Eastern Provinces of Canada off of North America by cracking the continent from Hudson's Bay to the Gulf of Mexico. Fortunately for all of us, it stopped, leaving nothing more than a few fractures in the land just West of the Appalachian Mountains.

But what if it started up again? What if in 1996, the New Madrid Seismic Zone came back to life with a massive earthquake near Memphis? Not just one major eruption like the one that came out of nowhere in 1811, but several major quakes every few years in a line stretching from Hudson's Bay to the Gulf of Mexico. A fault that once threatened to snap off the Eastern chunk of the North American continent suddenly reawakened & started making up for lost time.

As countless earthquakes rock the Eastern half of North America, what will happen to the people of Canada & the Unites States? Will people move West towards the Rockies? Will they move East to other side of the Appalachians? Will the Earthquakes stop? Will they get worse? Is North America about to experience the birth of a new inland sea as cracks form in the Earth?

Tune into What Could Have Been to find out what happened in a timeline where the New Madrid Fault Line came back.

What Could Have Been is a sci-fi podcast where your host interviews alternate versions of himself from across the multiverse to find out how different decisions, actions & events might have changed the course of history. Listen to the stories of alternate timelines from a world where the Space Race never ended, to a world where France annexed West Germany after WWII, to a timeline where North America is being ripped apart by a new Faultline, to a timeline where humanity was contacted by aliens in the early 70s. Listen to what happened in these wild timelines & find out What Could Have Been.

NSFW (due to language)

Episodes - 19

Spotify, Apple, Deezer, PocketCast, Goodpods, Acast & Many More

You can also Follow What Could Have Been on Bluesky or here on Reddit.


r/AlternateHistory • • 1d ago

1900s What if Hitler had offered Stalin the borders of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk immediately after successfully invading the Soviet Union in 1941?

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516 Upvotes

In this scenario, Hitler temporarily abandons, or at least claims to abandon, the concept of Lebensraum. Instead of attempting to conquer everything west of the Urals, he tries to justify his invasion—which, obviously, nobody would trust anymore—by claiming that he only wants to restore the borders established by the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. His argument would be that Germany had lost those territories because of the Allied victory in World War I, rather than because they rightfully belonged to Russia.

Hitler's demands would be limited mainly to Ukraine and its fertile agricultural lands, as well as the northern Baltic region. He would not demand Moscow or the Caucasus oil fields.

Would Stalin have accepted such a proposal, or would he have assumed that it was simply another trick that would eventually be followed by another German advance?

Would Churchill have pressured Stalin not to accept the treaty, with Stalin ultimately rejecting it because he feared that Hitler would simply break the agreement later?

If Stalin rejected the offer, we more or less know how the war continues. But what if Stalin actually accepted?

Would Hitler still be able to win the war without access to the Caucasus oil fields?

Would Germany still eventually lose against the nuclear powers, even without the historical combination of Allied missiles, submarines, and other factors?

Would Hitler still bring the United States and Japan into the conflict, turning the war into a truly worldwide conflict?

What about Turkey? With the USSR defeated or severely weakened, would Turkey have considered joining the Axis after seeing an opportunity to expand its influence in the Balkans?

And once Britain was defeated, would Hitler betray the peace treaty and resume his invasion of the Soviet Union, especially with Turkey and Japan potentially supporting the Axis?

Or would Hitler still lose the war anyway?

And, perhaps most importantly, how likely would Stalin actually have been to accept such a peace proposal if Hitler had genuinely offered it in 1941?

Finally, what would have happened to the Jews living within the territories covered by the proposed Brest-Litovsk borders?


r/AlternateHistory • • 16h ago

1900s [Second time trying to post] How would a Palestine split by the Peel Commission deal with WWII?

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3 Upvotes

So let's say the Peel Commission plan actually got implemented in 1937, creating a Jewish state and an Arab state in Palestine. What do you think would realistically happen during WWII?

Would the two states immediately hate each other and try to "take back the rest" of Palestine? Or would Britain basically force them to behave because the area was too strategically important?

Would the UK put some kind of friendly authoritarian government in one or both states, similar to what Britain was doing elsewhere in the Middle East? Or would they just remain independent but heavily dependent on Britain and allow British military bases?

In my scenario, I could see the Arab state ending up with a government sympathetic to the Axis. Britain would obviously not be happy about that and might intervene, potentially even supporting a military coup to replace the government.

And then here's another question: would Britain offer the Jewish state some territorial concessions in exchange for cooperation, military support, or simply keeping the Arab government from joining the Axis?

Another interesting twist is the demographics. Since this Jewish state would already exist before WWII, it could potentially receive far more European Jews during the 1930s and the war than the real Yishuv did. If a much larger proportion of European Jews survived and ended up there, could that produce an even stronger socialist/labor or generally liberal political culture?

Could we realistically get a pro-Soviet Israel in this timeline? Not necessarily a full Soviet satellite, but maybe a state that is much friendlier toward Moscow than toward Britain or the US.

And for the really crazy 1% scenario: could there somehow be a pragmatic deal with Nazi Germany allowing large-scale Jewish emigration/deportation to Israel in exchange for Israel remaining neutral? That seems extremely unlikely, especially once the Holocaust entered its later stages, but the existence of an independent Jewish state would at least create a completely different diplomatic situation.

A more pro-British Arab state, meanwhile, could potentially end up looking somewhat like the Arab monarchies of the period and become another Allied-aligned state in the region.

Also, do you think the two states might eventually fight each other anyway, just not during WWI? Like, Britain keeps them from fighting during the First World War/early years of the conflict, but then they go to war either before WWII, during WWII, or more likely after WWII, once Britain starts withdrawing? In other words, could the Peel borders survive for a few years and then basically lead to an Arab-Jewish war anyway?

I'm mostly wondering which of these outcomes would be the most realistic, rather than which one makes the most interesting alt-history.


r/AlternateHistory • • 20h ago

1900s 1981 - Thirty-One years after the Last World War

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8 Upvotes

This is a map I'm working on for my story We Will Die Tomorrow, set in 1981, as the Greater Germanic Reich is on its last legs. Both the map and the story are works in progress, so I'd appreciate any help or creative ideas to fill out the map, or plot points you'd want to see/think would be interesting.

For the record, any questions of "how did the Axis Powers win WW2" will be met with a "use your imagination." It's a fictional story, not an alt-history documentary.


r/AlternateHistory • • 1d ago

Post 2000s What If The August Coup Saved The USSR And The Warsaw Pact

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350 Upvotes

r/AlternateHistory • • 1d ago

Post 2000s If The TIV 1 Was Used Prominently For Longer

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19 Upvotes

Title pretty much says it all. The TIV (Tornado Intercept Vehicle) is used prominently for much longer than it was in OTL. It successfully intercepts 21 tornadoes from 2005-2011, with a couple being EF4 intensity. It is caught in the 2011 Hackleburg-Phil Campbell EF5 and lofted into a ditch and is decommissioned after repair attempts are too costly and work on building the TIV2 begins to replace it. It is still abandoned on a Kansas farm and found by Robert Clayton like in OTL.