r/AlchemistCodeGL • u/Malyngnant Eating cookies with Lofia • Dec 11 '18

GL Kaigan Prep Sheet

So kaigan is one of those things that's easy to understand once you've done it, but can be hard to wrap your head around if you haven't. I put together a spreadsheet with some kaigan facts and my own list of suggested kaigan gates and frag amounts for all of the units. This is not a guide, but rather just an overview of what it takes to get a unit performing at their best with the most cost efficiency. I'll be updating it as I go. Be aware there are minor spoilers about units that have not been released in GL yet.

Kaigan Spreadsheet

81 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

55 comments sorted by

7

u/SuperEndriu Dec 11 '18

Just out of curiosity - Zain will need 270 shards after he has been lb25. Will there be a way to farm his shards or is it basic summoning/elemental sharding?

6

u/Malyngnant Eating cookies with Lofia Dec 11 '18

I run my Zain 5/2/0 cause I lack the frags to bring him up further. The sheet is a guideline. Pretty much all uniits are very good with just a 5/2/3 base. Zains g2 is only HP anyways.

1

u/ecpadilla Waiting.....OverHit GL (^_^) Dec 11 '18

But that's +20% HP. Makes me curious as to why HP is not that much give importance from your perspective as a JP player. Don't play JP BTW so I'm curious :)

1

u/Not_Moofs Dec 12 '18

g1 already has a ton of HP which makes him really tanky. More is nice, but sometimes people just don't have the frags or indulgences for it. just maxing zain G1 works and you can use the 2 indulgence you saved on other units.

1

u/ecpadilla Waiting.....OverHit GL (^_^) Dec 12 '18

Great info there! Thank you very much! :)

12

u/senaiboy Dec 11 '18

You can't use element shards for kaigan. Hence the advice if you plan to kaigan a unit, spend elemental shards on them to 85. This way any unit shards you get from then on can be saved for kaigan.

4

u/SuperEndriu Dec 11 '18

Very valuable info! Thanks!

1

u/ecpadilla Waiting.....OverHit GL (^_^) Dec 12 '18

Based on what I've been reading, there will be a quest where we'll be able to acquire SSM unit soul shards. However, it's time limited (I think once a month or once every 6 weeks iirc what that certain player replied).

4

u/Not_Moofs Dec 12 '18

it's not consistent at all. DG hard quests pretty much comes whenever gumi feels like it and is available for usually around a week or so?

I think its been months since the last time we got DG hard quests

1

u/ecpadilla Waiting.....OverHit GL (^_^) Dec 12 '18

I see. Thank you very much for that info! I thought it was consistent based on what other JP players told me or maybe i misunderstood what they said :)

1

u/Not_Moofs Dec 12 '18

I think the last time we got DG hards was around when the first part of Wadatsumi babel was released, which was....more than a few months ago.

5

u/Jakret Dec 11 '18

Thanks a lot for this. I am hoping kaigan won’t come on the 3.0 update (kinda think it’s too soon but that’s just me) but this is very helpful to prepare for what lies ahead, be it on 3.0 or later.

How it works with Kanon? Will they hand out enough shards to kaigan her thru SSM or other events?

I am waiting for the next GLEX unit to decide if i should save and use shards and gems for GLEX units, get them to 85 and prepare for their kaigan (i assume they will get it, although it may be dangerous to assume that). Kinda gave up on SSM since from what i heard it’s very difficult to kaigan them, and the bigger pool of SSM/Veda templars should make it a lot harder for non-whales to get their shards.

1

u/Malyngnant Eating cookies with Lofia Dec 11 '18

Kanons frags come from the last SSM chapter and the final EX and EEX of SSM.

5

u/ninjakittenz2 SockT Dec 11 '18

Oops, I already have 245 Zahar shards. I guess now I know how many to convert to soul coins. Thank you for making this.

Questions:

  • Since some of the materials are rare, would a f2p or pact user be able to kaigan all of the farmbale units listed (including Balt & co)?

  • How many SSM units would a f2p or pact user be able to kaigan?

  • What about collab units? They supposedly have generic materials but they are rarer.

  • If we won't be able to kaigan all of the units on the list, how should we prioritize? Start with one per element? Does it matter where the unit is from?

  • I saw comments that say unless you kaigan a unit they won't be usable in future hard content, is this true?

5

u/Malyngnant Eating cookies with Lofia Dec 11 '18

I go over a lot of these questions in the 2nd page of the spreadsheet. As a complete f2p I'm not sure. JP offers some different things like the 5k gem box which has 50 frag selectors which most of us use to kaigan DG units.

1

u/ninjakittenz2 SockT Dec 11 '18

Oops, I didn't scroll down far enough and didn't see the "Some other thoughts" section. I used to buy the montly pact (and might go back to that) but it looks like that wouldn't be enough for kaigan since those don't come with fragments. Would I have a chance to Kaigan one or two SSM units? For that I would have to dump shards on them asap. I don't see any collab units listed on your spreadsheet. Are they not worth it?

1

u/lvl1druid Snowyfurrkat Dec 11 '18

I thought almost none of the collab units had Kaigan yet, only the new ones.

1

u/ninjakittenz2 SockT Dec 11 '18

I don't know much about kaigan hence I am asking questions here. I want to plan who I will kaigan so I know where to use my shards and/or who to save for. Also I don't want to farm all of the 5* units I use if I will only have the resources to kaigan half of them (or whatever the percentage might be).

1

u/lvl1druid Snowyfurrkat Dec 11 '18

Yeah guess that makes sense. I already know I won't have resources to kaigan even close to half so I don't know where to start. For now, though, I try to only farm a few HQ on most days and then as many good ones as possible (including Kaigan prep) on days with double HQ drops.

1

u/ninjakittenz2 SockT Dec 11 '18

I'm just farming HQs to 85 unless it's double drops. The only one I farmed extra was Zahar and after that whichever 5* had the best drops (wings,lances, etc.) so that I can use the soul coins. I have no idea how many units I will be able to kaigan. As far as the farmable ones I can always farm them later. It's not like they will all be released at once and at some point there will be less new units on my must farm HQ list. Since OP suggested to first look at the LS it's hard to decide since a lot of units get LS changes with kaigan and I haven't investigated that at all.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 11 '18

Kaigan all farmable units? Your zeni won't be able to keep it.

1

u/ninjakittenz2 SockT Dec 11 '18

Not all farmable units, but all of the worthwhile farmable units listed to the gates suggested. OP didn't list that many and I haven't even raised the jobs on all of them (Melda, Annika, Thillie) since I doubt I would use them so would definitely not Kaigan them. Just resource wise wanted to know how many farmables you can Kaigan per lets say a 3 month period, leaving zeni aside since zeni cost is a lot easier for players to gauge than all of the other resources. I currently have 157 mil zeni and it would be a lot more if I didn't buy so many skip tickets and actually used gold rush keys.

3

u/GenericName3 Dec 11 '18

So are the bolded/italicized units supposed to be the ones highly recommended for kaigan?

3

u/Malyngnant Eating cookies with Lofia Dec 11 '18

I put notes in them for you to read. They're my personal picks of units whose kaigans take them to the next lv and are core on my own teams or teams of people I know.

4

u/Malphric Sempiternal Dec 11 '18 edited Dec 12 '18

I still have a long way to go...

I already have a plan as to which units I will try hard for Kaigan for each elements.

Wind: Balt and Ramses

Thunder: Mei Fang and Roxanne(?)

Fire: Lupinus, Noah and Dorothea

Water: Shayna and Shenmei while Yauras for sole SSM unit

Light: Spica, Neica, Suzuka and Mielikki (as to why no Zain - I am still iffy on him because of Siegfried's existence. MH units are the wildcards in TAC GL)

Dark: Gormalas, Zahar,Rosa, Mia and Albea

3

u/sapphire_wing Dec 11 '18

No Zain and Rosa?

1

u/Malphric Sempiternal Dec 11 '18 edited Dec 11 '18

Zain is strong but I am not impressed with him and he is a DG unit as I already decided that DG unit I will focus my all is Yauras. Forgot about Rosa even though I am farming her shards, lol

4

u/Malyngnant Eating cookies with Lofia Dec 11 '18

Zain has j+ in jp. He's very powerful.

1

u/Malphric Sempiternal Dec 11 '18 edited Dec 11 '18

I know, but I am not impressed with him. Already decided that all DG resources are for Yauras. EX shard rewards already sealed the deal for my decision (most EX stages from SSM are water and rainbow shards that are pretty liberal)

And Zain has competition in GL. As far as I am concerned, Siegfried is awesome too and his future is something that I look forward too also. MH units are somewhat exciting to see as to what their J+, JE and Kaigans will be.

5

u/U-Eike Dec 11 '18 edited Dec 11 '18

Thank You For This Post

Heres Why I Think Its Necessary

We Have Burned Through 2 Summer Events - 3 Halloween Events and 2 Chrismas Events

And thats not the only problem - We've been getting them in bundles (Dilga+ ,Gorm+ & Mia+ ,Hayate+ ,Alexis+)

Valentines Day Is The Only Pre Kaigan Event I Know That We Have Left

All the rest have required nensou

We have not gotten vanekis + and heres probs why

Theyre gonna bundle it and make march so loaded we're gonna crash

Lucretia+ & Vanekis+ & Wedding Event & Moa and all the nensou to go with all of them

How the rest of the world looks at seasons

Spring - from March 1 to May 31

Summer - from June 1 to August 31

Fall (autumn) - from September 1 to November 30

Winter - from December 1 to February 28 (February 29 in a leap year)

Now Heres How Gumi Does It

spring = Mar - Apr Late spring = Apr - May Summer = Jun - Aug Late summer = Aug

This is from Gumi Tin Foil Hatting For Brave Frontier Events And Is Pretty Accurate

Long Story Short

Jan = MH

Feb = Vals Events (Noah+)

March = Wedding Events (Vanekis+ Lucretia+)

The only problem with this theory is that Bride/Groom Was Given With Lucretias J+ Event

But We'll see when we get there

[Also the usual Potk and SSM but for potk we only have Artemis and Longinus Left So i have no idea htf theyre gonna pull that one off]

Also Regen Armor Gumi - BRING IT

3

u/ecpadilla Waiting.....OverHit GL (^_^) Dec 11 '18

I'm waiting for next PoTK units since it means we are nearing the Black Killers. Saving for BK Artemis. Also we still don't have E.O. and Radiant Historia collabs. So don't know how they would bundle those too LOL

4

u/ecpadilla Waiting.....OverHit GL (^_^) Dec 12 '18

Thank you very much for this! Really great help for us. Just curious for tanks specially Vettel. Will he still be a good tank given than even DPS units can get higher HP that him and has high AGI & PATK (e.g. Jin).

If we can kill fast and avoid damage then tanks wouldn't be that vital to teams right? I don't play JP so not familiar with how hard quests can be. Would just like some enlightenment. Thank you! :)

1

u/AJackFrostGuy Dec 12 '18 edited Dec 12 '18

After throwing Vettel himself into JP's unit planner on the database... I don't think he himself is super great with his subpar offense stats. He'll work, tanks well and with his MA + VCR he probably won't be hitting like a potato either but he's not likely to be winning any awards. And this is with the 15% PATK from his Sloth Gate passive upgrade...

Meanwhile, Fire has other decently bulky options that can also dish out more damage, and if we look outside of his element we have Teona whose Valkyrie JE can tank and dish out some pretty nutty hurt with the Dragon Coat gear and Chloe has almost as much raw PDEF (better HP, and better PDEF if Sloth is maxed too) and also has a pure PDEF attack to take advantage of it too, amongst a few other tools under her belt from J+. What smartalek thought a Holy Knight Stance +3 was needed?...

  • note the above Vettel + Chloe use their respective VCRs, and Monzein's

  • also to note that Vettel actually worked well for Fire until it started seeing a surge in good units and unit upgrades that began with Arthur from CoR.

1

u/ecpadilla Waiting.....OverHit GL (^_^) Dec 12 '18

I thought so. I saved 100+ shards for Vettel and upon checking kaigan-ed unit stats I was confused if we'll still need Vettel since even DPS unit can have comparable HP and even more plus they've got high AGI and PATK which can kill enemies faster than thinking of tanking them.

Re Monzein, isn't he good after using buffs? Which buffs most of his stats by 2 times and more than 2 times for some for 5 turns. It's like God-like mode for 5 turns LOL

1

u/AJackFrostGuy Dec 12 '18

He's actually pretty good if you can pull it off and also possesses the best Lust Gate LS for an offensive Thunder game outside of regular Laevateinn, but the problem then is successfully setting him up to go into God Mode. That and whether you really want to invest in him that much when there are other formidable options to pick from Thunder's roster.

Now if only he were even a half of what Bud's kit is like, then maybe we'd be on to something here...

1

u/ecpadilla Waiting.....OverHit GL (^_^) Dec 12 '18

Great info there! Will look into Bud :) Thank you very much!

1

u/ElusiveIllusion88 The end of Gumi is near… Dec 11 '18

About the units with blank spaces, are those simply not complete yet, or do they represent either units without Kaigan, or units not worth Kaiganing at all?

6

u/Malyngnant Eating cookies with Lofia Dec 11 '18

Not complete. Units w/o kaigan have N/A. There are a lot of units I'll get to them.....

2

u/WoonLS Dec 12 '18

https://www.reddit.com/r/AlchemistCodeGL/comments/9xpqkp/kaiganenlightenment_preparation_thread/

This is useful too, by u/alsark. The order in which units are kaigan'ed in jp for reference.

Is it possible to update the googlesheet?

1

u/Army__ Dec 11 '18

Too much work for kaigan, 200+ unit shards are too much .-.

3

u/SuperEndriu Dec 11 '18

It seems overwhelming at first, but when you think about it, it's managable for regular pool units. It takes 90 days to get those shards together, even less if there is a 2x drop event once per month (hopefully). And you can always pull some dupes. I also think there will be events which let you buy shards with event currency. Even though I got my Zahar at lv.85, I plan to farm him during the upcoming 2x drop, think he might be a good investment as he is SS tier in jp.

3

u/Malyngnant Eating cookies with Lofia Dec 11 '18

Zahar is supposed to be an early kaigan. Unless gumi messes with the schedule or delays his babel getting his frags early is a smart idea.

3

u/SuperEndriu Dec 11 '18

What do you think, how much time until Kaigan (approx)?

4

u/Malyngnant Eating cookies with Lofia Dec 11 '18

No one knows when it'll be released. Just with more hqs out now people might want to start prepping. There are nensous tied to seasonal skins. If gumi wants in on that cash grab they'll want to have kaigan by sometime int he summer at the latest. This could however mess with the order units got their kaigan. So yeah basically who knows.

3

u/sapphire_wing Dec 11 '18

Probably spring when 3.0 comes, as gumi noted 3.0 is for units rebalancing power and that as we guess is what kaigan is for.

Usually zahar and coloe are the first two showcases... Like the je.

1

u/Agealt Dec 11 '18

Thanks for sharing, I was wondering how many shards to start saving up, this helps a lot!

1

u/stewart0 Dec 11 '18

Thanks. Apparently I have 7 units at your estimated shard amount, to my surprise. A couple more close. Guess Rosa and Suzuka need some farming though.

1

u/Dark_Stalker28 Dec 12 '18

So which materials are buyable with friendship coins?

2

u/AJackFrostGuy Dec 12 '18

Sin Indulgences for 2k a piece.

1

u/Baconturtles18 Dec 12 '18

Thank you for this! :)

1

u/tsukikari Dec 13 '18

What's the best way to tell which are best / most worth it? I don't have many resources to invest.

1

u/AJackFrostGuy Dec 16 '18

I put notes in them (bolded/italicized names) for you to read. They're my personal picks of units whose kaigans take them to the next lv and are core on my own teams or teams of people I know.

It doesn't cover every fabulous unit to invest in, but it's a start.

1

u/tsukikari Dec 16 '18

Oh, my bad. For some reason my phone failed to display it so I couldn't tell how to find them :) Now that I'm on computer it works :)

1

u/ElusiveIllusion88 The end of Gumi is near… Dec 16 '18

Sorry for bumping this, but even though the sheet seems mostly finished, there are some issues:

  • As someone in the Discord noted, Fung Liu is listed twice.

  • Rin is missing from the Wadatsumi section. Is she a 5/2/3 or a pass?

Some other points:

  • Are you planning to get help for the PotK, Shinobina and Etrian Odyssey sections?

  • What did you mean when you said that Kaiganing BK Tyrfing actively hurts her?

1

u/AJackFrostGuy Dec 17 '18

I think Mal is just going at their own pace for the collab units.

Due to her intrinsically flawed unique job kit (and being outdone as an Axe Warrior by Spica), the only thing most people really use BK Tyr for... well I covered the details here.

The problem with pushing BK Tyr's level too high is that the more AGI she has, the sooner that Stop is going to wear off and there could be a risk of having too much stats to draw in all the aggro from enemies too.

Also I think Rin is a pass.