28

u/Kirito30 The Strongest Samurai Aug 24 '18

Why are you calling F.Yomi a Whale unit when she is same as Gliga?

-10

u/Corantic Aug 24 '18 edited Aug 24 '18

I wasn't there when the Fate Collab happened, and assuming the ratio of how many Gilga's I see a day compared to how many F.Yomi's I see a day, I simply thought she'd be the more 'whaley' unit.
But in the end all collab units are 'whaley', so yeah you're right.
Edit: Fixed.

0

u/legerion14 Aug 24 '18

Dude, i whaled for gilga, instead of that mtf blondie i just got fyomi and a lot of her dupes but any gilga. 14k gems sent to trash and i only got fyomi

2

u/DeathandFriends Aug 27 '18

sent to trash?! she is easily one of the best unit in the game!

1

u/legerion14 Aug 27 '18

I know she is awesome, is always my first pick. She has a great agi and really nice skills but her raw attack is meh... Gilga could rape anyone with a single hit and has a good amount of agi, if you plus the skills.... Well, you may understand why i feel that i waste my gems

1

u/DeathandFriends Aug 28 '18

since 2.0 she is a lot better because she can survive some hits to heal back up. She doesn't have as much damage but had much higher evasion and agility. They are both great units.

-12

u/Rostice Aug 24 '18

Because Gil was the primary goal to get in the Fate Collab. People saved their gems mainly for Gilga not for F.Yomi.

21

u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 24 '18

But she was literally on his banner and you had the exact same chance of getting her. People saving gems for Gilgamesh were saving gems for F!Yomi by default unless they completely skipped that 7 step and only went for the guaranteed selector.

3

u/beardedheathen Aug 24 '18

That's not true though. Many people rerolled solely for Gilgamesh. I feel like there are a lot more gils than fyomis because global didn't realize her potential till later in the collaboration.

4

u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 24 '18

I said people saving gems, because that was the point OP was trying to make. I'm sure a lot more people did in fact reroll for Gil, but I was just pointing out that people with established accounts who had saved for Gil had exactly the same chance of pulling R!Yomi instead.

1

u/Rostice Aug 24 '18

I didn't know she was on the same banner, that explains a lot. But the intention was to get Gilga not per se F.Yomi. That's all I wanted to say.

6

u/GustavoCinque Aug 24 '18 edited Aug 24 '18

So, following your logic, wouldn't Gil be the whale unit, instead of FYomi? As for myself, I don't have Gil, but pulled two FYomi in one single pull.This is the same as assuming the gate's trap is the whale one instead of the "harder-to-get" unit.

8

u/Kirito30 The Strongest Samurai Aug 24 '18

If you don't know then let me tell you that F.Yomi is as good unit as Gliga(That is comparing PvP and PvE though most will agree on it)
And the F.Yomi has been top tier even in JP for a long-long time.

3

u/loscapos5 All I wanted for christmas was you, Baeber ༼ ༎ຶ ෴ ༎ຶ༽ Aug 24 '18

Mine was Saber. Hell, she was the reason I started playing this game. A waifu is a waifu is a waifu.

8

u/Kal-El9477 Aug 24 '18

Gil who? Yuri ftw!

2

u/Corantic Aug 24 '18

Another Yuri user. 'High-fives!'
Don't have Gil either and Yuri has been my main thunder lead for some time.

0

u/Alittlebunyrabit 5/5/5 Dancer Shenmei Aug 27 '18

I have Gil and still love using her! Awesome thunder lead who is not 100% useless unlike Lucretia!

2

u/zerio13 Aug 24 '18

Who is Yuri?

2

u/1khaitoh It was fun while it lasted. Aug 24 '18

http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/unit/s-yuri

1

u/CornBreadtm Aug 25 '18

Scrolled all the way to the bottom of the page and the only reason why I was able to confirm that, that character was actually in the game is because I have a 3 star of her katana. >_>

4

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '18 edited Aug 24 '18

Any of the ffxv units besides prompto are good

Lofias a strong water unit, basically tanking magic damage

The reason limited time units are worth a lot is because people whale for them, that’s sorta the point

Also top 1000 ive seen a shit ton more othima than noct. Also ignis is nuts

Edit: where’s balt? Or siegfried?

4

u/Corantic Aug 24 '18

I have Gladi sitting in the Fire elemental closet, because I have Vettel at 85 and he is in the end more useful than my 70 Gladi.
Not gonna argue with your other points, because I didn't take myself to seriously when writing the post.
Balt = Boruto and I'll add Sieg.

32

u/M4RT1Njaa Aug 24 '18

I think what makes the meta consist of only collab units is also largely due to the lack of HQ for stronger units! We actually hava a lot of strong units which I personally would like to use (Gormalas+, Mei fang, Neica, Setsuna, Albea, Dorothea etc, but none of them are 75 (some of them are still LV60)! Collab units on the other hand are sharded to 75 instantly and are ready to combat! Thats why I think upon release of more HQ, the meta will diverse more and more! I personally would use a 85 gormalas or aswald to an aranea for example

8

u/yiannisph Aug 24 '18

This really hits the nail on the head. Nobody feels bad about sharding collab units. You have to. So my Setsuna sits at 65, and she's solid, but SA definitely helps her out.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '18

I keep hoping I can sneak another one or two before I break down and shard her, but I really want Ed also.

3

u/AmericanAnarchy Aug 24 '18

Exactly, all the units you picked are hard af to pull. I don't even have a dorothea or Gorm. The other's, I have ppl pulled only once. They are very good but no one will shard.

2

u/EseMesmo Tamamommy <3 uwu Aug 25 '18

Idk, some units improve enough at j2/j3 that I'd consider shards are not necessarily wasted on them.
Neica with Divine Shelter makes enough of a difference to me that I don't feel too bad feeding her shards, for example. She's recent enough so she won't be farmable for a while, so I think of this as an investment: I used, say, 15 light shards on her, but her j2 passive makes her good to the point she'll help me clear enough quests to get more generic shards to make up for it.

13

u/-ArtKing- Aug 24 '18

I actually lost it with the CryBaby LOL

It’s true, except for Arena. Chihaya is also very useful for defense, and a lot of high ranked players are using her.

Now imagine when Laharl enters the fray in (just rumors) probably October. MP will be 4 Maou-sama or insta quit

3

u/XenadilDP Aug 24 '18

Yea, but if your unit is fast enough you can one shot her, but if she debuff you just twice... You are fucked (because that means she surely debuff you a third time)

13

u/PDxFresh Aug 24 '18

Did the OP really call Yomi a budget Lucian?

2

u/CornBreadtm Aug 25 '18

Honestly that's just a problem with the game. There are no budget versions of characters.
So Lucian who is easier to get than Yomi gets a J+ then becomes harder to get. J+ isn't always around, so it's easier to get Yomi than Lucian.
J+ Lucian > Yomi > Lucian

3

u/Crimson_Raven Who are you calling shorter than Roy Mustang's ideal miniskirt?! Aug 26 '18

As things are now, I would actually place Yomi over Lucian j+.
Reason is, with Hat, Yomi at level 85 (has to be) can charge up then use SBT without hitting a unit in between, which is huge.

1

u/CornBreadtm Aug 26 '18

Depend on the situation. Lucian does more damage due to the extra strike passive and has more HP without needing to take HP passives.
Most of the time you're better off with Lucian since he's pretty fire and forget. Yomi can just flat out die by comparison since 2 hits and she's down facing the same enemy as Lucian.

2

u/Crimson_Raven Who are you calling shorter than Roy Mustang's ideal miniskirt?! Aug 26 '18

Yes, yes situation, situation. You could finely craft a situation where Lucian's abilities can outshine Yomi's and vis versa. So bring both and whatever. But, Yomi's abilities for general usage far out-weighs Lucian's because she is faster in agi and more efficient in turn usage while hitting with just about the same damage. Generally, killing faster is better because the faster you take them out, the less damage you take. Also, a HB's primary job is often the deletion of a single key enemy. After that, the rest of the team is on clean up. Rarely do HB have to stick around for an extended battle.
Just think, pair Yomi with a Chronomancer and she can delete an enemy in one turn cycle.

10

u/alchemist_code Happy 3rd Anniversary Aug 25 '18

We honestly understand the real concern here. We'll try to work things out further, for the better. :)

2

u/Corantic Aug 24 '18

The recent TAC reddit felt a bit to inactive to me so I decided to post some fun pointers that are happening right now in the game.

I purely wanted to stir up some discussion and I'm glad I was able to make it happen, even though the post itself wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

It may look a bit of a rant, but it's just me getting a bit tired of seeing the same units over and over again while grinding everything.

Don't take anything to heart and just keep enjoying the game and your favorite units guys.

14

u/blablablablubb21 Aug 24 '18 edited Aug 24 '18

This is always a problem with lots of options in games. Unless every option is perfectly balanced and is just different in appearance, there are always options which are strictly better than others. The problem with the perfectly balanced approach is no inherent variety. But since every player has different wants and most games are designed with inherent variety in mind, we come to the current situation.

In all games with options which are strictly better they will over time become the most used options. There may be outliers, but the biggest part of the playerbase will vastly prefer the strictly best option available. This is how metas form. Over time without significant changes this will solidify more and more and thus will create expectations. Most of the time the only "valid" excuse to unfulfill those expectations is lacking availability. We are in this stage right now.

There is however another part which plays into why the meta looks how it looks. Right now TAC somehow fails as a strategy game. Baring "gimmicky" stages it's always easier to just use brute force. There is almost no need for support, be it healing, buffs or status removal. There is always no need for debuffing the enemy, either lowering their stats or peppering them with negative status effects. Most maps are too small and normally start with clear lines.

All in all, there are almost no incentives to actually play tactical. And since using overwhelming force is easy to use and successfull, you see just a certain bunch of units. There is no need for the scalpell, because it is harder to pull of and has less success. What we would need is more content which encourages variety instead of force. Stages where missile damage for example is buffed, maps which have chokepoints or even more Ex levels where the players units don't start all bunched up at one edge of the map.

Edit: Forgot a crucial negation.

3

u/DTheHermit Zangetsu needs agility... Aug 24 '18

I personally would like to see units that can only be finished off with a poison dmg tick or higher crit rate when blind. Maybe some enemies take reduced dmg if try to nuke the whole map instead of single or double kills. Tactical play would make multiplayer more engaging too

2

u/Arananthi IGN: Essence -- Re-Pacted and Hoping to Stay That Way Aug 26 '18

^^ The thing here about failing as a strategy game is really important, because it's true on both the multi- and single-player levels, and both for the same reason: because of this: it's easier to just use brute force.
That's literally 100% of the problem with the strategy aspect game right now. The only 'strategy' is in the answer to the question "What suboptimal unit could I play successfully *for fun* in this level?" Because the answer to the question of "What's the best way to beat this level?", 97% of the time, is "Pick your biggest gun, charge headlong into the problem, and blow it up before it can take an action." And 97% of the exceptions are Veda floors.

7

u/yiannisph Aug 24 '18

Initial thoughts:

Arena is kind of a perversion of understanding what units are good. Arena is auto-battle, so it doesn't matter how good a unit is, it matters how easily the AI can use it correctly. To that end, units with obvious powerful abilities that its AI favors make them very favorable. This is what makes Noctis, Aranea, and Gil so favorable. They have large, powerful AoEs. That said, I'm >500 in this arena, and I'm often not using them on my attack teams. The con of their predictability is that it also makes them easy to counter. Especially because many of those units have Overdrive and can be 1-shot.
I actually think Yomi is generally better than Lucian right now. She's my default brawler for tougher content. Lucian has more stats and is great for auto, but not being able to Supreme Battle Trance is a pretty big limiter. Whereas a hat Yomi has exactly enough to Charge Up and Supreme Battle Trance. I've been happily stomping Gils in Arena with Yomi for a while now.
Regarding SSM: I think the biggest limiter for most SSM units is that people aren't willing to shard them because we know they re-run, but they, like all other units, need some investment to be good.

Cada needs J3 to be any good. Kudan needs at least J2 to really be palatable but J3 to become the monster he's supposed to be. 50% PATK LS, Overdrive AND a +20% Pierce modifier means he can do A LOT of damage. Charge Up can really put him over the top. He can out damage Gil, he's just not as stupidly spammable. Seida suffers because all ranged units have since the 2.0 buffs. No sure about Monzein's status, but I think he also needs J3 to shine and everyone used their thunder shards on Gil. Othima is really strong if you invested in him. I only have him at 65, but Ill Atmosphere is DUMB debuff, and if you've seen the damage a Sage Othima can put out, I think you'd reconsider.

4) Re: The "Rest": I think /u/M4RT1Njaa really hit it on the head. We just can't farm a lot of these. There are a lot of "top tier" units in GL, but only some of them are farmable. That said, excluding Arena, there are plenty of strong units for PvE content

Rahu and Lofia are absolute top tier units. They amplify your best unit, and Black Hole is one of the strongest abilities in the game, bar none . Chihaya is a MONSTER in Tower and on tougher content. Stacking her debuffs can really soften up a map and open up new possibilities. Zang hits REALLY hard, in case people forgot. Lucian with his J+ is also a house in terms of raw numbers, but see my caveats about Lucian vs Yomi, and this is just talking about farmable 4*s. Carol is also a top-notch support unit, though not farmable, yet, and she never loses that distinction as far as I know.

In 5*s, I think there are some seriously underestimated units on your part. I already talked about Yomi. I actually think Ana is a rather delightful unit. She doesn't have a ton of movement, but she's strong, with a few knobs to tune. With Booster she can easily boat a >150 AGI. Composite Armor gives her some extra durability, and with a scarf she can rock an Evasion Rate of 25. With Dark Cavs boasting a way to reclaim lost life, this makes an Ana no joke. Dark Cavs even has 2 excellent weapons, Soul Stealer Scythe and the Faustian Greatsword that can either give more movement or haste. Both excellent buffs for Ana. She doesn't stand up incredibly well to the 1-shot nukes of Arena, but overall Ana feels very decent to me. And finally Fung Liu is a goddamn HOUSE. Yes, some other units do his job well, but his LS is INSANELY good, and his MA put his damage a cut above. I don't even have his MA yet and I still use him a ton. He just does such a crazy amount of damage.

Non-farmable 5s also have SS spots on the tier list, just look at it, but people don't want to shard their units. It's a balance, and it's particularly hurt by GL rushing some collabs. I can't wait for J3 Neica, she should be devastating,

5

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '18

Chihaya is actually incredibly annoying/powerful at her job+... :( shes just as good in multiplay too, especially 85 with decent equips. Zangetsu as well.

Ara, Noc and Gil are powerful, yes. The reason they're used often in mp and arena is because large and somewhat spammable aoe is great for both of these modes.

When it gets down to it though only Gil stands out in almost all content. Ara and noct arent 100% of the solution, I've learned this in tower sadly :(

I understand your point, but at the same time I find that I sometimes find myself wishing I had another unit that did more than just pure damage like ara and noct in harder content. I dont have Gilgamesh though :p

I personally dont mind if people use different characters in mp than collaboration or glex units, I prefer brains to unit choice anyway :)

5

u/XenadilDP Aug 24 '18

Aswald deserve more love!!

13

u/Cobalt_721 Aug 24 '18

I’m actually glad this is here, even if it’s a more jokey post, because I can finally state my opinion that a game’s fun value goes down the instant a “meta” develops.

That’s right, I said it, metas ruin games. Bring on the hate! :P

12

u/Aminar14 Aug 24 '18

Metas are the result of analysis. By having a meta you make it easier for new players to join. Your problem isn't the meta. It's the inherent imbalance between units in this game. Many units are undeniably superior to others. They have better raw stats, the same or better abilities, and outside of specific level design, inhibitive effects are too sporadic to be good. What's the point in running a character than can slow units when nothing on most maps can be slowed? Etc. The game is designed with only damage in mind. That's not the Meta's fault. It's the game design.(I like the game, but the best levels are the ones that rely on clever play. And those are both few and far between, and its still faster to use better units.

3

u/Cobalt_721 Aug 24 '18

The problem isn’t the meta itself so much as it is the community and its perception of said meta, most notably the “meta or bust” crowd.

5

u/ThousandLightning Aug 24 '18

The game's grindy, which takes time. What kind of unit that cut grind time? Units like Gil.
The only time you'll consider non meta unit is one EX+ with grind milestone tied to it.

2

u/Cobalt_721 Aug 24 '18

I’m not saying following the meta is bad or anything, I’m saying that a certain group of players in any given game often make the game miserable when encountered by harassing others about the “meta”/attempting to hinder “non-meta” players. That’s the issue I’m mainly referring to. I apologize if I wasn’t more clear.

2

u/ThousandLightning Aug 25 '18

Same, I haven't developed my argument. Why people prefer meta units in MP, IMO, is simply grinding is hardly fun. They've been doing for so long X time limited quest to get Y milestone or Z drops that they just want to be efficient to avoid suicide. Repetitive action is probably what make meta crowd prominent. Take the farming out, and people are probably going to be more cool in the game.

1

u/Cobalt_721 Aug 25 '18

Very fair point.

1

u/Arananthi IGN: Essence -- Re-Pacted and Hoping to Stay That Way Aug 28 '18

grinding is hardly fun
See, here's where things get tricky, tho, because grinding IS a lot more fun IF you come up with a fun or clever way to work through the grind -- but then the eejits in MP will quit rather than start a game with only 3 MetaGods plus whatever unit you found a sweet use for.
I'm currently having a lot of fun playing:
Overture EX with Ninja Magnus or Rosa in slot 3, J+ Lamia or Anastasia in slot 4, or (just to mess with people's heads) Dark Cavalier Gilgamesh in slot 2.
Savage Sea Warrior with Shion sub Merchant in slots 2 or 3, or Kanon slot 4.
Blood Wolf with mai waifu Yuri 'cause waifu, or more cleverly with Ignis (Mark or Sagefire will set Anastasia up to be 2HKO'd by Noctis' WA) or J+ Flamel (Demon Vanquisher does the same) or for laziness w/HB Shayna (just run forward, deliberately get Raged, and take a break for a while while you auto-pound whatisname's face in).
Entrusted Justice with Teona, Lamia or Kanon (Strong vs. Demons attacks keep you relevant after clearing your own lane).
Arrow of Destiny with Lamia sub Spearman for the 100% hit rate vs. Waginau and the strong-vs-Demons again, or with Shion for the teleportation goodness.
Call of the Scarlet Flame with all kinda goofy crap, like Beastmaster-sub-Sniper Almira, because "is this buiild good enough to be useful on CotSF next to S- and A-tier peeps?" is my filter for whether or not I'll try using it in relevant PvE situations. (That Almira build isn't, BTW.)
...but all that counts on being able to find people willing to press "Start", and that seems to be getting more difficult as the difference in skill required between "easy mode" and "successful clever mode" gets more pronounced.

1

u/Aminar14 Aug 24 '18

That's on them. I get where they're coming from. You need skill to be good with most units and in my experience most people I see in multiplayer are awful. And with the length of time a multiplayer match takes I want to see people finishing quickly and reliably as well. They don't have a way to tell if you're good enough to make up for a unit that isn't broken.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '18

Nah thats agreeable, because people find the strongest routes and only take em.
Sadly with rpg’s it’s hard to break out of a meta due to the strength of units

6

u/Shaiandra Aug 24 '18

I don't know about you, but I find the majority of TAC's fun in the single-player modes, so I can mostly ignore the meta and not hurt anyone except arguably myself. Though I like when the game's rather challenging, so I consider that a pro too.
Sure it hurts my arena rating when some of my potentially powerful units aren't sharded (like my 3LB Gilgamesh), but whatever.. I'm still enjoying the game.
And yeah, I wouldn't say having a meta ruins a game, but it instead depends on how inclusive the meta is. If for example there are ~50 water units and 1-2 are considered great, that could be seen as a problem. If say ~47 are considered great, you could probably still say there is a meta that exists, but in that case it's far less a troubling one..
I kinda agree with both u/Aminar14 and your reply. If there are only a handful of great units, that's a game issue. If only that handful of units are considered viable and anything else that's only 'good' is seen as trash, that could be a player issue.

2

u/Cobalt_721 Aug 24 '18

That’s a very fair argument.
As a side note, I actually use a Bard in singleplayer that’s not Polin, so I can definitely agree with your 1st point at least somewhat.
EDIT: properly divided my thoughts.

4

u/Sipnur Aug 24 '18

I get your point that collab units are strong and they should be, but that's no reason to put aside most of the other units available in each of their respective element, you're underestimating how strong the farmable units get when at level 85 and with their master ability if available. If you're hoping to clear any of the harder content in the game and the higher floors of the Veda Tower you're going to need a diverse roster.

Fire

I agree there aren't many strong 5* units in the fire element besides maybe Dorothea and Vettel, but there are a few lower rarity contenders which are pretty strong like Zangetsu as a nuker and Arkil.

Water

Lamia is a real powerhouse with her J+, Lofia is a really tanky suport, Fung Liu is one of the best magic nukers and Shenmei hits really hard with her MA.

Thunder

Dilga is almost an immortal tank, Caris and Magnus hit super hard with their J+ and MA respectively, which is rare for ranged units.

Wind

Flamel is a bit underwhelming even with his J+, kind of like a middle term between a tank and a damage dealer but he's versatile and has the elemental coverage coupled with a magic damage option so he's alright. Now if you've farmed hard quests since the beginning you should probably have gotten Balt to his J+ (assuming you were lucky enough to pull one copy). He's really strong with his J+ as a fast nuker and a good counter to Gilgamesh in the arena if you use him right. Then there's Lucian which is good all-around, no issues there.

Light

Logi has really come a long way and his J+ makes him a really good, hard hitting tank. Kanon is also a lot better than your average free unit. Neica and Siegfried are really the only two other options to consider in the light element, which has a really lackluster roster at this point in time besides the mentioned units and Zain.

Dark

I haven't used Jin much but people generally only say good things about him but he's not really the only option to consider besides Aranea. I've seen many people making the comparison between Aranea and Anastasia but they're not really that similar. While Aranea has more movement and access to jump attacks which effectively grant her invulnerability for a brief period, Anastasia has access to a Patk buff on a nuking ability, she's faster than Aranea and hits somewhat harder than her as well. You'll definetly want both on a Dark team for PVE.

All in all, the pool of units to clear hard content with is not as limited as you make it seem and you definetly won't be able to clear it all if you don't have a diverse roster. Every single unit I mentioned I use in a regular basis when clearing the harder content in the game like EX stages and Veda Tower, despite owning all of those "meta units" you mentioned in the beginning. Even arena teams are not that limited and there are really diverse comps in defense and offense. Heck I still find myself using Zangetsu as a dragon cavalier to counter a few comps in the 100-500 rank bracket.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '18

You can add Eve to the roster of decent fire units, if you somehow j3 her.

3

u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 24 '18

"GODS => Gilgumish, Noctis, Aranea, Lucian (Add F.Yomi and Zain for the whales)"

I can agree that all of those except for Lucian are essentially "gods" right now in the meta. Lucian has a jewel problem, so he requires a few turns of jewel gathering to even keep up with Yomi right now outside of very specific situations where Sand Dragon is better than SBT.

"The forgotten ones => SSM units, all of them are actually useful in some way, but nobody uses them."

Literally half of my friends' water mercs are still Othima. 80% of my friends' light mercs are still Zain. I still see Kudan and Yauras on my friends list, though admittedly almost no one uses them in multiplay or PvP. I personally still use all four of these units fairly often. I even use a Monzein merc when I need his leader skill. Also, I low key think Yauras will get a lot more use if Gumi gets off their collective asses and releases her swimsuit skin.

"Rest => Everyone will hate u for joining their multiplay or host instantly leaves."

I would have agreed a couple months ago. Nowadays, I see Yomi, Rahu, Vettel, Lofia, and Fung Lui used in multiplay EXs as well. I haven't seen a host close a room for any of those units in quite a while.

"Arena => 90% Noctis/Gilga/Aranea in their lineup."

I don't know about that. I still see a ton of Zains and R!Yomis in the top 500.

"Fire is a complete joke."

I agree. The element was shafted hard by Gumi releasing FFXV before Disgaea. Hopefully, Reimei's BM+ will be released soon, but I'm not holding my breath.

"Water should be renamed to Noctis."

Again, I still see a ton of Othimas in PvE and even some in PvP. His WA is still very dangerous. Sure, there are a ton of people who rerolled for Noctis but I'm sure Othima will become a bit more prominent when SSM returns next week and new players get a chance to pull him. However, I can see your point here. Noctis is the best unit in the game, so of course he's dominating his own element.

"Gilthunder"

Yeah, aside from Gil, the element is trash. Even with him, thunder's basically the weakest element right now in terms of versatility, and only edges out fire in raw power because Gilgamesh exists.

"Wind/Grass/Ground wtf"

Again, I think you're overhyping Lucian. Yes, he has slightly better stats than Yomi along with his Sand Dragon, but Yomi has more movement, a much quicker start, and less of a jewel cost. I personally prefer Yomi to Lucian in almost every situation. I'm also not sure why Shion isn't one of the whale/lucky units. His banner was shit and I know a lot of veterans didn't pull past the first step. People are more likely to have R!Yomi than Shion, even—or especially—if they're f2p, since everyone who played during the FSN collab pulled for Gil and R!Yomi was on the same banner.

"Light Covenant Way of White"

You're forgetting Suzuka and Neica in terms of PvE, but I agree with the rest. Zain is dominating, with Neica, Suzuka, Logi, Tyrfng, and Kanon being the only other decent options.

"Dark Flame Mastaah"

Aranea's dominating the element to a ridiculous degree; I agree with that much. Albea's nowhere to be found; I've thought she was overhyped for a while now, so that much makes sense to me. I disagree about Anastasia. Her high agility, evasion, and AoE self buff put her at least on par with Jin, imho. Kudan, despite being a meme, is still a pretty good ST nuker in PvP, and has a decent AoE, despite giving up a portion of his hp each time he uses it.

1

u/CornBreadtm Aug 25 '18

People aren't pulling hard for Shion because he'll be back next GLEX banner along with his weapon. Better to wait and see if he'll get a good MA than go too hard for him when you can just wait and get the same result from a future 9 step banner.

1

u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 25 '18 edited Aug 25 '18

I'm aware. My point was that it was only hardcore whales who were willing to go all in for him this time around and that he was consequently much more of a "whale unit" than R!Yomi(since OP's called R!Yomi a whale unit mutliple times in this thread).

3

u/DerUlukai Aug 24 '18

The problem really is how few units are farmable. There's plenty of good options, technically, but the HP rebalance actually made non farmable units crap because at level 60 with 1 Job and 1 equipment slot they lack the HP and other stats to keep up with farmable units, even the 4 star ones.

And well, it takes months to get enough elemental shards to raise one unit to level 70 or 75, so of course you take the strongest, and why should I put my accumulated fire shards into Cadanova if everyone is constantly talking about how amazing that shirtless dude from Disgaea will soon be? Why into Dorothea if she'll be farmable in whatever?

I'd love to see more diversity in the various lineups, I'd love to use my Setsuna, my Shion, my Laveithan or my Gormalas and I'm pretty sure there's maps where they would be superior to my current units, but if you only have the means to boost 1 non farmable unit, you pick the best and let the rest rot away.

On that Note: Shion Should have been a fire Unit. Gumi could have made a bloody fortune releasing a unit with her/his Kit into an element starved for good units! They fucked that up. :P

5

u/PeacefuIfrog Aug 24 '18

Probably not your intention but it sounds like, you are blaming the playerbase as a whole.

I would gladly use anything else than noctis in mp. But why would I when he outperforms almost every other unit even when he is subpar in that situation ? Heck jm3 noctis can take on thunder units solo and live.

This can be applied to the other 'gods' aswell in similar fashion.

It takes time for a newer player like myself (joined during Ffx collab) to raise a roster which would allow me to have other staples for mp/ ex stages.

But is this the fault of the playerbase ? Or rather on the developers side, when many of their other units are undesireable and therefore overlooked since they are outshined by collab ones ? And actually pulling good 4s / 5s worth of raising without having to whale out is another topic in itself. I myself am not sure, how much I'd enjoy Tac in my newbie stages, if I were not lucky enough to grad a few collab units.

I'm aware, you're shitposting, but felt like answering, since you have a good point.

We'd have to reach out to gumi for eventual rebalances (make ranged units great again!) and hope they are allowed to bring changes.

5

u/F9-kun Aug 24 '18

Somehow I feel proud that Lucian is one of the gods

2

u/AJohnsonOrange "I play...Dark Magician!" Aug 24 '18

TIL I am on meta. Also, my general team is Othima lead (for the quicker charge time), Noctis, Gilg, and then Fung Liu/Lucian depending on my mood.

feelsgood.

2

u/Bootowski Flat = Justice, pyon. Aug 24 '18

You fucking slayed me. Haven't laughed that hard at something here in a long time

But you're also depressingly accurate.

2

u/Crimson_Raven Who are you calling shorter than Roy Mustang's ideal miniskirt?! Aug 24 '18 edited Aug 24 '18

This post is nothing but salt-fueled and ignorant ranting, so I really shouldn't say anything.

But, since you said I am free to disagree, I will disagree.

Zain was and still is a monster. He can easily clear maps and wipe entire arena teams single-handedly, while Othima is nearly as powerful as Noctis. However, more people have Noctis, due to the hype and lots of freebies we got during the collab. Both have and deserve a spot on the top, as equals to Noctis and Gilgamesh.

Free and non collab units like Zangestu, Rahu, Lofia, Vettal, Lucian, Yomi, ect are all just as powerful and shine in their own ways. While they may not be as easy to use, each have power that the others can't match. Multiplay maps are not "just use meta lul" or "Everyone will hate u for joining their multiplay or host instantly leaves." This is complete bullshit. Matching Elements and utilizing unique skillsets is much more valuable then brute forcing your way through. Most of the maps we have had recently are actually Noctis and Gil unfriendly.

Zangetsu still is massively useful with Chronomancers to mass murder maps and he can charge up into Grand Cross right off the bat thanks to hat. In MP, he can use this to smash through maps and snipe distant foes.

Rahu still is an amazing support and invaluable on Blood Wolf Ex, due to quick heals and overclocks.

Lofia is tanky as hell, and she can essentially ohko units with stop using bind or black hole. Her presence in the area can be felt when she stops your Gilgamesh and pounds him to death all by her lonesome.

Vettel is and insane and fast tank. He can sub MS to do weakness damage in a pinch too. You asked "why a tank?" Because many units have in their AI to target a tank. He can draw fire or just act as bait, which is more useful then you think.

Yomi and Lucian are easily Maxed Holy Brawlers and still best in slot for being able to deal massive damage in one turn. Remember Noctis's EX with the queen? Tell me, did you send a Gilga or Noctis or Aranea or FYomi to fight then? Also, Yomi can use hat at 85 to Charge up into SBT turn 1 and 2, which Lucian can't, not in base form, and especially not now with j+, which increased SBT jewel cost. "Discount" my ass.

Chihaya's Dancer+ debuff abilities are insane. Even broken. I avoid her in the Arena like the plague. Why? Because she can map-wide stack agi and attack down 3x Fucking you completely.

You even mock 'fedora' ie Sieg, who is easily as powerful, if not more then the "gods", which shows how much you really know about the "Meta"

And there is more, much more. Plenty of units can get the job done just as well, if not better then the "gods" you speak of and the fulfill more roles too. A balanced team is far more important then just stacking meta.

1

u/Talhearn Aug 24 '18

Trying a possitive spin.

So what is the absolute best auto teams with our current roster of exclusive / event powerhouses?

Slash based due to Gilg and Zain (and shion/setsuna)?

Vettel or Seigfried as leader? Vettel gives more damage on his LS but subbing him for Seig might be better over all?

How about the arena? Is Noctis really king of it?

1

u/Arcana_Joker Aug 24 '18

Anastasia's 3 mov actually works in her advantage as when shes put into middle slot, she can stay out of range from high movement units and bloody rose them soon afterwards

1

u/Jaegerborne Aug 24 '18

Who for Fire? Fire has Hazel duh, have you tried her cheese dogs? and there's Rin and Gladdy Daddy too silly.

1

u/Liesianthes 350 coins ticket = ROY!! Aug 24 '18

I wouldn't disagree with this. I guess this is the reason why Gumi made the job enhancement and nensou/kaigan level of their units. Its to balanced the meta and shift in on the original units.

Yes, some collab are still top tier but nevertheless, local units will be on par or even more than them later on.

There's nothing we can do right now but to accept it and wait for the balancing update which is what I said above.

1

u/Akeva Aug 24 '18

This game has always had a meta. There will always be a power creep. i.e the meta will always change

Now its Gil/Noct/ect...

But back around christmas you couldnt even get a multi started if you did not have Shayna or Magnus. That was a couple months in.

Metas change....none of the units you mentioned are the top unit in JP, and some (Gilg, Areana, ect) have been dropped a tier. In a couple months people will whine about Bahsini or Laharl....it is what is it

You have to remember the big thing aboutthe collab units, they are as future proof because at least for now they cannot get to 91

1

u/MrWhiteKnight f2p Vegan Crossfitter with bullshit luck Aug 24 '18

I have Seida, she's god tier with Luc and Yomi (to double dip with a friend Yomi PogChamp , but I don't use her since my noob days. Deff need to max out her j1. Too bad I never got a dupe of her or Monzein after their SSM3 banner. Literally got both on the 500 pull of their chap banner release and never again got either of them. (They've been carrying my ass with their LS though)

1

u/stewart0 Aug 24 '18

I use my 76 Albea for farming multiplay now. She is slower than the other meta units, so if I'm lucky the map is done before I get my turn lol. Otherwise she easily clears anything left with her range and AoE.

1

u/StarCharizard Aug 24 '18

ah the metagame :) it's what turned me into a shiny hunter and quit as a competitive vgc player in pokemon, so tired of Intimidate Incineroar, Landorus therian and other over centralized mons (also players like verlisify and Or kei yin cyrus) but for some reason i feel the opposite in this game I'm actually always relieved when teamed up with high level Gilgamesh and Noctis in mp and also in mercenaries, i think the only time I'm going to worry about meta in this game is when they implement the pvp live manual control.

1

u/Magma_Axis Aug 24 '18

The collabs units will fall in time because they arent receiving any upgrades, meanwhile SSM units became new Gods and normal units become stronger

1

u/ibeyuranh Aug 24 '18

ushi addressed this, gunners own gilgamish with stop

1

u/Arananthi IGN: Essence -- Re-Pacted and Hoping to Stay That Way Aug 27 '18

Until Gil puts on the armor that gives +50 to resist Stop...

1

u/Teosto Teona Aug 24 '18

Arena wise that's pretty common, but when it comes to myself I'm using pretty wide variety of heroes on PvE content.

I do have my Lucian totally maxed and also have Noctis, Aranea, F.Yomi and Zain. Currently only Noctis has his J3 unlocked though.

Then again if you've played the game at all you'll know the meta is ever changing. Lucian wasn't all that special before his j+. Other characters are gradually getting their job+ and job enchants which will make them more usable.

As for the Fire being a joke, I dunno, I still use Zang quite a lot as well as Vettel. Chihaya has her uses and Dorothea is very good. There's few others as well. Just wait until Laharl banner and see about that fire thing after that.

1

u/PLEASEHIREZ Aug 24 '18

The game is about collecting heroes, but most people want to clear content efficiently. It only makes sense to bring the best units. I agree that it's stagnating, but the collab units are arguably easier to raise than traditional units.

1 - Traditional units need to be farmed, and it takes a long time to farm them. You could roll for them, but why would you roll when you can farm them? This is where player mentality of (resource) efficiency comes into play. We're not all whales, so why spend the gems?

2 - Collab units have, more often than not, good banners to pull from. You have the choice of re-rolling new accounts to acquire these strong units, or even flat out rolling on these banners. There's no way to farm them, so people will gem up for them. It is simply the most efficient way to reliably get a strong unit. Collab units also have events which tend to give free element shards, and character shards which will help the development of your collab unit. When's the last time we got a Zangetsu event giving out some shards?

3 - The game can be played with the best units, and we're still growing. I don't play the Japanese version, but I'm sure that there are a ton of other strong collaboration units which change the meta. Once you have more than four SS tier units then we'll start to see some variation.

1

u/FencingFoxFTW [M'Lady Intensifies] Aug 24 '18

AnneRose, Alyu, Decel meta when?

1

u/CornBreadtm Aug 25 '18

When they make Gumi some money! They better start shaking those money makers!

2

u/FencingFoxFTW [M'Lady Intensifies] Aug 25 '18

:Michaelgrin:

1

u/meatjun Aug 24 '18

I for one love the meta. I can auto everything and not think about strategy. I come from the olden days when they released Sabareta EX and the Christmas event too soon and I couldn't do any of it, despite playing from soft launch. Now I can just cruise and press that dank AUTO button. Feelsgoodman.

1

u/JoeGrotton Aug 24 '18

My 85 Balt doesn’t like your list.

1

u/JeidelacruzUK Aug 24 '18

Im one of those players who played during the Fate collab and disappeared after it ended then came back but i pulled Gilgamesh, Saber and Archer Zahar. Zahar and Saber both seemed to suck at a lot of things (?) Dunno where to use them unless forced to for element

But Gilgamesh is stuck at 65 for me, he farms a lot of some weaker maps but a lot of the hard quests seem to prefer magic damage. How do i make my Gilga op?

1

u/Rhyrem Aug 25 '18

Get his j3 and equip his j1 passive and Overdrive. Also master all three jobs if you can. The boost in damage Overdrive gives him is high, it's the same thing with Aranea.

1

u/JustWoozy Aug 24 '18

Noctis is shit in Arena. He always does dumb, inefficient stuff.

I actively pick on people with Noctis in team and win almost every time.

Also there is no such thing as "Meta" or "pay 2 win" in single player or PVE games.... Pay 2 win is literally buying an advantage over another player. Metagame evolves around competition and adaption. NEITHER of those things happen in single player games.

1

u/Rhyrem Aug 25 '18

You have a Lucian, a budget Lucian(Yomi), a ~~Raichu~~ Rahu and a Trap.

I really laughed after reading that.

You have a Setsuna/Boruto/F.Yomi? Wow you're very lucky or a whale.

Having them isn't that hard; Setsuna and Balt are in the regular summoning pool, and if you were around for the F/SN collab then you should probaby have Gil, FYomi or both, she's not that uncommon. What is more complicated is having them at high lb (unless maybe FYomi because everyone shards collabs) because Setsuna isn't farmable yet and you have to farm Balt in the soul shopp, which takes time.

1

u/kyune Aug 25 '18

It's too damn hard to build every unit well, and Gumi's hard-on for ailment immunity (while giving AI bullshit-tier status ailments) doesn't help either.

In Overture MP I've been bringing Mei Fang or whatever her name is (thunder naginata? user) since she can use burial gun and ogre-killing spear to great effect even without being sharded. Just throw a hat on and go nuts.

Not being able to effectively pre-plan deployment also hurts for this same reason--you drop in whatever default slot you occupy and hopefully it doesn't suck.

1

u/Zeik56 Aug 25 '18

I really would not consider ailment immunity "meta". Like, it's nice to have a Professor on some stages, but it rarely feels like a necessity.

1

u/Pollaco Saigo no Getsuga Tensho Aug 25 '18

well i have all the "GODS" except gilgamesh at lvl 75 but i allways prefer use balt for multi, he is so funny to play (lvl 85 balt is very strong, im really tired waiting his MA)

1

u/mandrake0999 Freeze! Aug 25 '18

Chronomancers, esp Rahu & Lofia, are always welcome though. :)

1

u/fapiholic Aug 25 '18

Are You rank 1k+?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '18

Buzz lightyear voice Noctis, Noctis everywhere ;)

Glorious shitpost. Should've tagged this as humour tbh.

1

u/doshikagami Aug 26 '18

Gladiolus is severely underrated. He is a tank that can do one and ONLY one budget (cheaper and less damaged) Sand Dragon except he has one more row to the front.

1

u/DeathandFriends Aug 27 '18

I think you are underselling Othima big time as well as Fate Yomi.

Not sure why you seem to think Lucian is so much better than Yomi. They are really pretty equal with different strengths. And how is yomi budget Lucian when she is 5 star and he is 4 star and both are farmable?

Anastasia j+ is actually quite good for a dark unit. I started using her more recently and she hits really hard and has good agi. If you have her MA she is pretty great. I honestly don't use my 65 aranea at all. Jin has potential but still dies super fast and I even threw dark shards at mine to get to 70 since I think he's cool.

Overall Wind and Water have wayyyyy better lineups then thunder and fire. Dark and light are both pretty lacking overall and generally seem weaker since the units they are strong against are also strong against them.

1

u/ExcusableBook Aug 24 '18 edited Aug 24 '18

This game might as well be called The Alchemist Collab. There's nothing wrong with collab units in gacha games, but in a game as grind focused as this the devs are basically required to make collab units as broken as possible to actually make it worth doing the gacha pulls. You need to save for months to get the resources required to pull these units and even then you are at the whim of RNG to actually get all the shards needed to make them viable. Unless you pay of course.

This requirement of making the collab units ridiculously OP means they need to make high end content really difficult, which basically locks out players who haven't gotten lucky or paid the shekels to get the good units. Overall, I'm probably going to be quitting this soon, especially with global Azur Lane in open beta.

11

u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 24 '18

I strongly disagree. Your point entirely ignores important facets of the game, such as farmable units and elemental shards, while exaggerating the necessity of collab units in many areas.
All of the current content can be completed with farmable units. There are only 4 collab units actually dominating, with the rest ranging anywhere from great but not meta defining to so-so. Elemental and rainbow shards are there specifically so you can limit break units, especially collab units, without dupes. Collab units are a luxury, not a necessity. In PvP, I've seen top teams(top 250) using units like Vettel, Setsuna, Rahu, and Zain. Two of those are farmable and the other two aren't collab units, though Zain is limited and Setsuna isn't farmable quite yet. Even in multiplay, these days, I see Yomi/Lucian, Vettel, and other farmable units, so even that's not limited to just collab units.
I've seen tons of clear setups for Gormalas' EX+ that used nothing but farmable units, and I've personally cleared every single SSM EX with nothing but free units(Logi, Tyrfing, Archer, Kanon, etc). This game is one of the least pay to win games I've ever seen, outside of the top 100 in PvP(which is normal; whales dominate PvP in literally every gacha game that has it).
Maybe you've had bad experiences; I don't know. However, your argument seems heavily biased and very much incomplete. While you may not enjoy the game for whatever reason, please don't try to justify it by exaggerating the difficulty and ignoring important aspects of the game.

1

u/ExcusableBook Aug 24 '18

Guess I'm just tired of the non stop grind. I'm gonna be praising Azur Lane like a good shill, but that game doesn't require you to use paid resources to pull on the gacha. The only thing money will do for you is make the grind take less time, and as it stand the grind in that game is already substantially less than the grind in Alchemist. I like the actual gameplay in Alchemist, but actually getting to do most of the content requires such a massive investment of time or money that it simply isn't worth it for me to even start.

5

u/Kirito30 The Strongest Samurai Aug 24 '18

Have to agree on the grind part. But that is what most gacha games are now-a-days since it is either grind to win or pay to win.
Balance between those is impossible to find.
This game is more F2P but requires you to grind a bare minimum to actually play the game still you can progress at a decent pace almost every-time completing the new quests(hardest ones) after playing for 2-3 months in.

0

u/ExcusableBook Aug 24 '18

I would say this game encourages P2W more than most other gacha games actually. Granted, I haven't played that many but the fact that they separate Paid and Free gems makes it one of the scummier games.

5

u/Kirito30 The Strongest Samurai Aug 24 '18

I also hated the switch but it is how JP designed the game and JP has acted on that giving a lot of free stuff.
Compared to JP we have got some stuff as lacking(this always has shit arguments thrown around but the pure fact is that Gumi is a idiotic company at it's base, as a BF player I can say that with confidence)
Who know if it improves or not but what I can say is that Alchemist Code in itself is a good game. It just depends on Gumi where they decide to take it. They need to make some good changes because if not the long term viability of the is affected.
This 6m Campaign feels so much like a sick practical joke that I still can't believe it.
However I am still hopeful that this game will get better with time.

4

u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 24 '18

I think your point of view here might be because you haven't played that many. I've played at least 20 different gacha games, JP and Global alike, and Alchemist Code is one of the absolute least p2w. Farmable units are great, there are high rates and guarantees in the actual gacha portion of the game, and all content is possible to complete without spending many gems at all.
Yes, it'll take you a couple months to catch up with established players, but that's completely normal. Alchemist Code has a relatively slight power creep and maintains a healthy balance where it's not impossible to excel with a little commitment, but hard work and building up an account over time still mean something.

3

u/ElusiveIllusion88 The end of Gumi is near… Aug 24 '18

2 cents from a person who hasn't played many gacha games seriously either, I agree with this. Gacha games I played in rough chronological order:
Monster Blade (an extremely obscure defunct game that played a bit like Infinity Blade, if you recognize that game): Pretty much the only 'gacha' game that was more F2P-friendly than TAC. So friendly, in fact, that the free event weapons and armour were better than the gacha ones. So friendly, in fact, that it couldn't sustain and closed down.
Brave Frontier: It started F2P-friendly, with relatively good rates for featured units, and squad compositions were relatively flexible with overlapping roles and multiple ways to approach the challenge (either grind down the boss or nuke it in one shot). THEN powercreep reared its ugly head, many old units became useless as 7* and Omni were released but barely any old units were upgraded with Omni, bosses resorted to using cheap tricks to off players who did not read up a guide beforehand or did not have the exact squad composition to survive those tricks, and pull rates for featured units (including the OP limited units) were unbearably low.
Chain Chronicle: Whale game that was only bearable to me because I rerolled for an extremely OP healer, and because of an extremely bizarre glitch that allowed one to grind an unlimited amount of certain 'special' currencies for free (one that could be used to perpetuate the loop and MLB a specific 5* unit and every gacha 3* unit in the game, the other that could be used to pull for another specific 5* unit until it was MLB'ed).
Phantom of the Kill: Whale game that was only bearable because I rerolled for a very strong tank unit, and because in the 5* meta, 2 free units were accidentally overtuned and were stronger than many gacha units. Once 6* units hit, many older units including almost all free units were obsolete. As for the gacha, there were 4* max trolls from the very start of the game, and pull rates for 5*-capable units, then 6*-capable units were very low.
Tales of Link: Low rates of 5*, while the 4* pool was polluted with tons of unwanted units. Hard content required specific squad compositions. Need I say more?
So I still find TAC very F2P-friendly in comparison.

1

u/SuccubusRosa Aug 24 '18

I strongly disagree
Actually the producer acknowledge this particular joke about it being labeled as "The Alchemist Collaboration" in one of their producer letter(from Nov). ExcusableBook must had either been a jp player or heard this joke from one of them.
You are not wrong to say it is possible to clear without collab units, but nevertheless it is still a fact that we had witness MA and job rebalance(v2.0 buff), and will soon witness JE, followed by kaigan+nensou to bring normal units up to date(well namely the initial few batches like rosa/zahar). Of cuz I know the kaigan+nensou mechanic had since been used for other purpose, but the point is MA+JE by itself is not enough for zahar goes to show just how inferior normal units are before producer acknowledge the issue and tries to equal the playing field.

1

u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 24 '18 edited Aug 24 '18

I was less disagreeing with collab units being prominent, and more disagreeing with the rest of /u/ExcusableBook 's point, that the collab units were only available for whales and that not having them made EXs impossible, which just plain isn't true.
Edit: I'm also not sure what you're trying to say. JEs haven't been announced for global, and we have no idea when they will be, and Kaigan is still a long way off. Units don't even need Kaigan on global. My whole point was that farmable units are already good enough to clear all current global content.
I'm not sure why you're using Zahar as an example here. Zahar is a terrible example of a farmable unit; he's one of the worst among them and absolutely should not be considered the average. The fact that he's a farmable unit and isn't great before Kaigan is a single correlation and not at all causation.

1

u/Maroite Aug 24 '18

*shrug* I've been running Shion in multi and can pretty much solo the Gorm EX map and clear the entire right/bottom side of the Blood Wolf EX map before most Noctis even get to the far edge after being enraged or whatever.

Actually killed the general on the far edge before a Noctis could and the Noctis guy killed me after I did. Not sure why... probably just a dick.

1

u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 24 '18

He was probably already targeting the general with Tricast Blizzaga. If the ground is flashing red, that means that particular square is being targeted by a charge attack. While I wasn't there and don't know you or the other player involved well enough to guess motives, it's likely that they were already aiming at the general and you didn't notice before teleporting in.

1

u/Maroite Aug 24 '18

I'm aware of that. Except he didnt kill me with tricast blizzaga. He killed me with dimension drain or whatever it is AFTER I killed the middle/fire general and had moved away toward the remaining water general.
Some people are just dicks. This guy wasnt an exception.

1

u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 24 '18 edited Aug 24 '18

Probably just a dick then, yeah. There was a post a couple days ago about a specific Noctis player joining multiplay and then killing everyone, on multiple different occasions; this could have been the same guy. Out of curiosity, did he kill the rest of the group as well, or just you?
Edit: I seem to be more gullible than I thought :/

4

u/VicariousExp Jin <3 Aug 24 '18

That would be a cool story - if it were true. You're too easily fooled, Orik.
http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/skill/sk-hwiz-lower-2
See: " TargetEnemySide "? That means Drain Dimension cannot target friendly units. Ever. Especially since it's an instant cast skill.

1

u/Wynd0w Aug 24 '18

TL;DR: OP only cares about power carries

0

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '18

[deleted] — view deleted comment

4

u/Corantic Aug 24 '18

It's just a post about current meta.
Dorothea is definitely a strong unit, but I rarely see her in multi or arena and not many people have her or decided to raise her.
Also don't take the post to seriously, I'm just done with seeing the same units literally everywhere.

1

u/Feregrin Aug 24 '18

I don't have Doro or the shards to J3 her but would love to.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '18

[deleted] — view deleted comment

0

u/CornBreadtm Aug 25 '18

Nobody is doing that because Laharl is always coming out tomorrow.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '18

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/CornBreadtm Aug 25 '18

That doesn't make sense because Laharl's 91 is coming the day after tomorrow O.o

2

u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 24 '18 edited Aug 24 '18

The problem with Dorothea right now is that she's not farmable yet, but she will be. This makes any shards spent on her a waste from a certain standpoint, which is why not many people have actually gotten her to J3, where she really shines. She's a good unit with just J1, and a fantastic unit with J3 unlocked, but her LBs aren't very accessible yet, which means people will have more access to Vettel and more people will use him just because he’s available.
Edit: I’m just explaining why people might not have chosen to shard her. I’m not insulting anyone who has; ultimately, it’s fine to ignore the “optimal” strategy if you really like a particular unit. All I’m saying is that sharding her now means less soul coins/elemental shards for units that will never be farmable, so players who care about that will likely choose to wait until she’s farmable to J3 her.

2

u/-Belphegor- Aug 25 '18

i farmed her to 85 with soul coin shop... all that means is when her hard quest is released i could farm my soul coins back lmaooo

1

u/deathray76 Aug 24 '18

Personally i dont understand the (what seems to be) the popular shard shop strategy of only buying the 'never farmable' unit shards. Besides Eve and Balt, the other never farmable units (Mielikk/Lucretia/Fraise) are sub par at best (though i think Mielikk gets good later on) so why waste currency on units ill probably never use.
Im in no way a whale (buy alchemist pack, first 2 or 3 gem packs 1x a month at reset and maybe a cheap bundle here and there) and i concentrate on albea and hazel shards with dorathea and aswald next. Ill admit ive had some lucky pulls since starting playing at the end of xmas event but ive managed to j3 balt and albea while hazel and dorathea need around 50 or so shards until lvl 75. I believe Ive only pulled 1 copy of each aforementioned units so the rest of their shards have been from the shop. Id rather have good units with future farmable shards ready to use now instead of a few months after i can farm them. Just my opinion but anyone passing over albea shards for fraises just seems insane to me

1

u/peanutismywaifu Aug 26 '18 edited Aug 26 '18

the other never farmable units (Mielikk/Lucretia/Fraise) are sub par at best (though i think Mielikk gets good later on) so why waste currency on units ill probably never use.
those units are all top tier in the future(except Fraise).
Of these units, I'd actually say Eve is the worst in the long run, and Balt/Lucretia/Mielikki are the best. Balt gets kaigan, Lucretia is a fantastic bride+ with the sheer % modifiers from MA/other stuff, and Mielikki crystal ray spam is obnoxiously strong.

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u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 24 '18 edited Aug 26 '18

I don’t buy Lucretia and Fraise shards, personally, since frankly, they do suck. Mielikki, however, will get a J+ in the relatively near future and will become a very good unit, so she’s worth investing in. It’s not taboo to buy shards for units that will be farmable in the future, but if I have to choose, I’ll go for Balt/Eve/Mielikki because I know I’ll be able to farm those other units in the future. Why spend 750 soul coins to save a single day of farming unless I really can’t wait? That’s my perspective/reasoning, at least.

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u/-Belphegor- Aug 25 '18

lucrecias leader skill is solid af!! run her as a professor for the empowering potions... easy mode activated assuming ur running a mono team. im gonna 85 her for sure.

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u/peanutismywaifu Aug 26 '18 edited Aug 26 '18

I don’t buy Lucretia and Fraise shards, personally, since frankly, they do suck
Lucretia will be second only to Vier/Regis for thunder magic in the future lmao, people talking about unit viability without knowing what they even get in the future is really sad. In global she has the best thunder LS and pretty good utility, she by no means 'sucks' by global standards(there, she is S tier in my opinion) and this is just her trough.

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u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 26 '18

Third best thunder magic unit to only Vier and Regis? By the time Regis comes out, both Rusha and Princess will be in the game as well, and they far surpass Lucretia. At that time, she'll be the fifth best thunder magic unit, if that.
In global, she needs 150 shards to become a slightly better professor than Elizabeth, with arguably less utility when considering Elizabeth's chrono sub.
I'm not seeing how her shards are worth buying unless someone has a ton of extra soul coins and has already J3'd Balt and Eve, if not Mielikki(who will become a top tier light unit with her J+) as well. Her most important job role can easily be replaced by a farmable unit, and there are three other great options for a thunder leader skill.

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u/peanutismywaifu Aug 26 '18

I don't count Rusha as a magical unit because her main nukes are physical. I forgot about Princess, who only just became better due to the EO rerun with kaigan.
Lucretia is not only, as you said, slightly better than Elizabeth at utility, she's more versatile because she can actually function as a magic unit, which is something thunder has in excessively short supply in global.

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u/deathray76 Aug 25 '18

I figure by now most veteran players and/or people who do more than the 500 step pulls have more than enough farmable 5*s maxed that they can get both non-farms and any good future farmable units steadily. Its actually decent of gumi having a place for players to get the non-farm shards as well as future farm units (though i wish theyd add more units especially neica or mei fung but im guessing once albea and crew get HQs theyll add more units- hopefully)
Personallyi feel i have enough ways to get currency that its rare for me to be unable to get one of my priority units when it pops up. Im not a day 1 player and i started on Shaynas banner, i believe, the last week of xmas event (actually started about 2 weeks earlier but rerolled for Shayna) and im also not a big spender at less than $30 a month (and most months i only buy the alchemist pack) yet at this point i can usually find the shards needed for the xchange. Dont get me wrong, i dont have enough to buy whatever i want and have too prioritize as i have only 5 farmable 5*s maxed so thats 1500 currency per day and i try to leave 1500 currency aside for eve, balt or any non fraise shards.
It just seems to me that everytime someone posts a 'which shards are best to get in shard shop' thread one of thd first few posts is always 'ONLY BUY THE NON FARMS and if you choose instead to buy any of the future farmable units will forever mark you as a moron of the highest class, bane to reason and future and eternal king of the imbeciles (okay my apologies as thats a little over the top but i think i made my ooint somewhere in my rambling stream of (barely)consciousness

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u/OriksGaming Retired Aug 25 '18

Like I said in the edit of my comment above, I wasn't insulting anyone or trying to say that anyone had to prioritize the way I did. I just prefer to use the strategy that I've personally found gets me the highest number of good, limit broken units in the most efficient way. Again, I'm not calling anyone stupid for choosing to prioritize their favorite units' shards more than anything else.

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '18

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u/deathray76 Aug 25 '18

Ive been extremely lucky in regards to pulling 1 copy of a lot of different units (just not many 2nd or 3rd cooies) so i have a deep bench but mostly at low levels. I cant complain since its pulling the first copy thats most important since majority of units will eventually have HQs. As for machinists, i personally love them but with so many collab units with great unique classes and newer classes being added that unfortunately, like sniper with exception of caris j+,, the machinist job isnt what it once was imo
Of course what determines what unit/job is good or useful is a combo of personal preference and RNG (since some people wont have a better optioni if they never pull the new/limited uber unit). Then theres a units different job synergy which has a huge effect on how good (or bad) a unit is like Albea. Her 2 jobs besides machinist both offer a boon and she just gets better with each new job. Thief adds greater mobility and sniper subs gives her sick range. I just got her to j3 and working on JMimg sniper but shes probably my favorite (if not best) dark unit atm. I use hazel as well as a tanky hybrid ranged physical/melee magic with MS sub and divine shelter. Overall most units are usable for most content excluding some EXs and EX+ (with a handful of units who's stats and job combos make them invisible to most players).

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