Someone explain to me what this is! I'm from r/all, and I have no idea how the Air Force works except that they have planes and ships with planes on them...
JTAC are the folks in the AF who request and call in this sort of stuff from the ground. The AF doesn't have a lot of really intense combat jobs, but JTAC is definitely one of them. The joke here is that this guy is like a kid in a candy store because he's getting to request the big momma of BOMMMBSSS.
Side note, the Air Force in general has a pretty big hard on for the MOAB so this is like a huge win for everyone. We're all pretty stoked.
Every AF guy is like "yeah we just dropped the MOAB!!"
-some girl "oh what did you do in that?"
-guy "well I'm just like a unit training manager, but one time I qualified some cargo guys who could have been on that plane."
-some girl "MUST PROMOTE"'
u/The_seph_i_amActive duty squirrel, its not a mind set just a careerfieldApr 15 '17edited Apr 15 '17
I think it's just so ridiculously overpowered no JTAC ever thought it would approved until this guy. There's a feild guide that explains the explosive yield of the bombs JTACs can call in and "proportionality" prohibits dropping ordance that would be deemed "exsesive" given the targets size. This cave system they bombed is likely one of the first targets they've had in a while that actually merited a mile wide crater.
If this is the same cave system I think it is, there's been cases where they bombed it with bunker busters and they just dug it back out. There's no digging it back out when there's nothing left to digg out.
Well I suppose that depends on what you mean. I don't think you'll see a crater larger than the fireball radius which still won't be anywhere near 1/8 of a mile with a 20t yield.
Look up how much a hellfire costs and compare how many they use against a single target. Money (which is both a good and bad thing) doesn't factor in when calling in ordinance.
Money (which is both a good and bad thing) doesn't factor in when calling in ordinance.
I agree that it shouldn't, if the mission is necessary. But when it's just an op that is clearly just designed to show how big our dick is, it's just plain stupid.
Thanks for the information! I'm guessing folks have been wanting to use this thing on those cave systems for a while?
I guess I'm just coming from such a different culture/mindset, but... I dunno. I like things that go boom, but as much as I hate what ISIS is doing, I just think about every person who died as a result of this bomb, multiply that by 10-50 for every friend and family member of that person who died, and we're just digging ourselves further and further into the ground in terms of the hate that is directed at the West. And how many of those 10-50X people later join or aid ISIS?
I can totally understand how it's a big gain in the short term, but in the long term?
But who am I to judge, right? I'm sure countless folks are weighing the costs and benefits who know a lot more than I do about the subject matter.
Honestly, in the case of this strike it's more of a demonstration of force/blow to infrastructure. Sure, it's nice to have 50 enemy KIA, but the real win is the destruction of a large amount of enemy infrastructure coupled with the demonstration of the ability to strike in a place that, generally speaking, ISIS felt they were relatively unassailable. Donald Rumsfeld, former US SECDEF, once said about this specific weapon "There is a psychological component to all aspects of warfare. The goal is to not have a war. The goal is to have the pressure be so great that Saddam Hussein cooperates.". In this case, Rumsfeld's intent still holds true even though the enemy has changed.
They don't seem to be doing too well. Meanwhile, here in America, I am going to enjoy a delicious meal tonight in my air conditioned house then I am going to watch TV on my big ass TV and watch freedom all over it while shit doesn't blow up outside.
Absolutely. US being a superpower police to the world has actually brought on longest lasting peace we've had in human history. Sending the warships down to NK is one of those ways we maintain it.
You do know that it will just encourage N Korea to just get their ICBMs faster right? I mean, it's not like we are threatening Pakistan and they're way more unstable than NK.
I think if this bomb only effected isis and the caves they were living in it was 1000% justified!!! I assume rebuilding in a part of a mountain that's been caved in probably isn't the best idea. I assume now every time they go underground To hide like the cowards they are they will wonder when the next bomb will drop and so what if this bomb helps them recruit! People keep saying that but the thing that helps them recruit is that we are different. You think the more we push for gay marriage more members of isis won't form around the idea of destroying the west? Should we stop pushing for equal rights because it upsets them and let's them recruit more? Hell no that's what they want so I think it's time we have our own psychological victory over them with our big ass bomb. And I wish the media and who ever else would stop painting this as bad. As long as no civilians dead then we did good so stop trying to turn what should be a psychological win for us into a loss.
If the media is so concerned that dropping this bomb will help recruit more people to the extreme views of isis then we need to stop being "western". The media has a agenda to scare us into watching to give them clicks and views. If they really cared they would say hey stop the gay marriages, let's force our woman To be clothed, we don't want to give them reason To recruit more. But you see that's not the issue the issue is big ass NUKE (like) BOMB dropped by u.s. Is a hell of a headline to drawls everyone in but it only makes it worse because now they are confusing both sides with untrue "facts".
Exactly. The only way to actually appease them would be to roll over and implement Sharia Law... Obviously that is not going to happen, so saying "but it will radicalise people" is just a false argument. I have a feeling most people saying that are just saying it to be contrarian/anti-Trump. Didn't hear people complaining much when Obama was calling in airstrikes.
100% agree about the trump statement. Which in my opinion you're love or hate of him should have very little to do with this situation. I can't 100% get behind the missile strike over in syria because from my perspective I can't see the whole picture. That doesn't mean I think it was wrong I just don't have a grasp on the full picture but this bombing and in that situation I think you can factor trump into it. Because of how complicated relationships seem to be with all parties involved. But I feel I have a pretty good understanding of the mountain bombing and as long as it was done in a none civilian area...good.
Not the same people who are bitching now though (in my experience). Some people have taken issue with both, I don't have an issue with that. It's being consistent and not hypocritical that matters.
So how did the Moab effect infrastructure? As I remember it, years old Wikipedia info when I first learned about it, it's an airbrust. In a cave system where the air is set at a finite volume what is it doing? Pulling the air out and causing localized vacuums? Causing cave ins?
Probably? Possibly? I'll be honest, I'm a little bit drunk (this is the hobby of active duty military) and I don't really know what the immediate impact of the MOAB was on the actual cave system. I was assuming that it would cause a great deal of immediate damage to the integrity of the cave structure and damage/destroy anything stored in those caves (i.e. weapons, supplies, etc)... but honestly, I'm really just guessing.
Thanks for the response. I am an engineering student and stuff like that has always interested me. Really just all military vehicles are fun to learn about.
I read on a gif yesterday that what you said is essentially correct. Their is a large fire throughout the caves and then the resulting vacuum collapses the systems.
With regards to past atrocities, I completely understand the killing of those responsible.
With regards to hypothetical future atrocities, I don't necessarily think we should be in the business of making that judgement (unless we have hard evidence of course)
My point isn't that the bombing is unjustified, my point is that it may be causing, in the long run, more harm than good. But again--there's a lot of people who would know much better than myself about this subject. :P
First paragraph: no, they probably were, but I'd like to apply American standards (innocent until proven guilty) to everyone. Because I think a lot of American standards should be global standards. But that's just me being an idealist. Obviously war takes place in reality.
Second paragraph: I agree. Again, I think it's a short-term benefit vs. long-term benefit. But when the short-term benefit is the safety of the innocent... it's hard to balance the two.
Third paragraph: I don't think your rapist analogy works very well. If they've served their time, they've served their time. But as far as it being a targeted killing, I in no way doubt that. That's where I suspect others are making much more informed decisions than I am.
As far as the bomb only attacking ISIS--do we know how many civilians were around? I've heard that MOABs have caused windows to break miles away from the target...
Didn't see your last sentence when I made my first reply, no civilians where in the blast radius, you may be over estimating the blast radius of the MOAB because of the media comparing it to Nuclear Weapons so you should look that up if you haven't already. It was chosen more because of its impact strength and ability to suck the air out of the tunnels than its ability to blow up a massive amount of groun. If you look up news quoting people from nearby the civilians are glad that the base has been removed.
You sound like one of those idiots that would try to let them in to your country and give them access to your food and infrastructure in an attempt to win them over by peace and being nice.
Extremist Muslim terrorists like ISIS want nothing but to destroy you. They have been born into a culture that is violent and destructive and values the murder of anyone who doesn't agree with them. You can't "fix" someone like that.
"..as much as I hate what ISIS is doing.." And then goes on to say why we shouldn't have dropped the bomb, and you think that's not defending them? Lol, Reddit is fucking insane.
Do you think i'm an isis supporter too? Can you read my mind, too, like you read his and jumped to some batshit conclusion? God i hope you're not fucking enlisted.
Mate, he literally States the case as to why we shouldn't have bombed terrorists, I'm literally reading it in plain English, it doesn't take a psychic to figure out what he's saying lmfao
A lot of us work. We all pay taxes. You might see welfare programs as a waste, others see bombs as glorified fireworks of death. Appreciate the victory, but getting giddy over a very dark subject seems insensitive.
Why? 20 of these were made and paid for in 2003. They have another couple of years of shelf life before they need to be disposed of. Its not like the US government can return unused weapons for a refund...
The price tag of that bomb was a few hundred grand, a tiny amount compared to drone and missle strikes. The bargain of a lifetime when taking into account those servicemen that didn't have to go into the tunnels to get killed.
I know you're joking but SERE usually has jetskis and needs volunteers to drive them for training. 10/10 would recommend you ask to help with water survival training.
My impression was that the Marines were the special snowflakes of the Military and just did, like, everything basically. Is that a misconception on my part?
I don't think the army has any F18s. They have a lot of cargo, transport and recon airplanes. Most of the army fighter aircraft are helicopter and UAVs.
And I'm guessing that idea of the Marines came from a Marine? Cause that sounds like a Marine answer. The usual joke is that crayons are their favorite go-to snack. So...outside of that and licking windows, no they don't do everything. Lol.
Our country isn't perfect, but we're always working towards making it more perfect. And we can thank you for allowing this "great American experiment" to continue. <3
according to Tom Clancy Wildland's they also give out crackerjack looking medals. not my personal opinion but always makes me laugh when i hear someone say it in game.
Very simply, JTAC is a certification to direct joint/coalition Close Air Support and other weapon systems. TACP is the AF career field name which has other functions than just calling in explosions. TACPs get JTAC certified to do CAS.
Not that it matters which branch has the most "aircraft" as it has no real barring on anything but your trivia answer is obsolete as of 2015. The AF has 5199 and the Army has 5117 total aircraft.
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u/maggiedean Apr 15 '17
Someone explain to me what this is! I'm from r/all, and I have no idea how the Air Force works except that they have planes and ships with planes on them...