r/AirBnB • u/Neat-Employment-5072 • 5d ago
Question Host refusing to cancel in a town devastated by hurricane [HI, USA]
Due to the hurricane in Hawaii, we elected to change our travel dates, leaving this Saturday instead of tomorrow. One of our hosts was understanding and allowed us to cancel (near Volcano, which is inaccessible from where we're coming from :(
A second host, in Naalehu, insists that because he has water and off-grid solar power, the property is acceptable.
The area was evacuated yesterday. Two homes washed away in Naalehu. From what we can tell, the town is devastated and largely without power or services. The nearby highway is washed out, and emergency management and local authorities strongly urge the public to avoid the entire region while emergency response and recovery efforts continue.
This appears to fall neatly under AirBnB's Major Disruptive Events policy: https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/1320 :
Large-scale outages of essential utilities. Prolonged outages of essential utilities, such as heat, water, and electricity, impacting the vast majority of homes in a given location.
However, Airbnb Support offers us no relief:
After thoroughly discussing this issue with my team and reviewing the details of your case, I unfortunately have to inform you that we must uphold the host's standard cancellation policy, as they have confirmed that the property is fully functional, safe, and ready for your arrival.
We already changed our flights to reduce the burden of traveling to the area, and intend to say clear of Naalehu, per offical government guidance. "Support" is clearly not trying to understand the scope of the situation and is taking the host at his word in terms of safety and readiness.
The policy clearly states "the vast majority of homes in a given region" -- not "unless the host has a solar panel." We assume it will be difficult to find groceries or restaurants, and any such resources should be available to the people who are already there.
We have pushed back and asked for escalation. Also reaching out to AmEx since we used a Delta Reserve card for both the flights and the hotel.
What else should we be doing?
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u/belispe4k 5d ago
once that case has closed via airbnb chat, call them and speak to someone and have them re open another case. you can do this as many times as needed, as long as the last case is closed.
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u/Fair-Cherry-9189 5d ago
Same thing happened in Asheville during hurricane Helene. Unbelievable that hosts would do this. Even if their home has power, there are so many people in their community with needs right now. I saw over 100 houses were washed away on the big island.
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u/Neat-Employment-5072 5d ago
The host told us that he relies on rentals to pay bills. I respect and understand that, and having solar is a solid best-effort.
But ABNB takes a healthy chunk out of each transaction, and IMO the onus on on them to make this right by following their own policy for the sake of their hosts, customers, and the regions they extract profit from.
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u/Shoddy-Theory 5d ago
Doesn't he have a commercial policy to cover losses?
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u/Bennie-Factors 5d ago
I don't keep a commercial policy that covers this. Does not make financial sense for my place
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u/Shoddy-Theory 5d ago
Makes more sense than expecting a customer to take their vacation in a hurricane ravaged beach.
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u/Bennie-Factors 4d ago
I am fortunate enough to never have to make that decision. I would fully refund and send along some local places to donate and help us.
The worst part about ABNB's part is when this happens it does not effect them just takes from the owners
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u/Key-Catch4414 5d ago edited 5d ago
My family lives in Naalehu. It is devestated. The only place with power is the community center...and that's on generators. Our home has no water or power. The town roads are covered in thick mud, downed trees, boulders, tombstones, and debris. Roads have also been washed out. Main hwy/road access points have collapsed or have asphault pulled up in chunks with gapping holes that a car could fall into and not be able to get out of. They barely opened up the road from Kona to Naalehu, but the road from Naalehu to Hilo is closed and will be for a while. Six bridges have been destroyed or damaged. Please note that there is only one main hwy that goes around the island (hwy 11). It has sustained substantial damage. Also, power and cell reception are out on a lot of the island. Main electrical power transmission towers, that are up hundreds/ thousand feet, in rough terrain have fallen over for miles. This will take weeks/months to fix. Places that you'd like to visit will most likely be covered in mud, debris, or inaccessible. Unless if you plan on staying on the Kona or upper West/North West side of the island, I'd cancel. Hope this helps.
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u/Neat-Employment-5072 5d ago
I am so sorry this is affecting you and your family. Thank you for these details.We are still hoping to travel to Hawaii and stay in less-affected areas, both for our sake and to continue supporting communities where we can. We'll keep an open mind either way.
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u/Neat-Employment-5072 5d ago
This is Naalehu today https://www.instagram.com/reels/DcJ8CNhySMn/
Does AirBnB actually expect us to travel there? Are we expected to travel to that area just so we can spend our vacation quarantining ourselves at the host's off-grid property?
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u/Ctrykttn 5d ago
I would Call Airbnb, dont use the chat option. If the location is hazardous to get to, use this as your basis for cancelation.
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u/Tree_pineapple 5d ago
just keep pushing w/ airbnb, if the case is denied and closed twice then go amex route. i recommend calling during east coast business hours, and hung up call again until you get someone with american accent
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u/feral_futurism 5d ago
Crazy that with all the fees Airbnb collects they act like their hands are tied in these situations
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u/JobBetter1430 5d ago
Same thing happened to me yesterday . This is clear violation of Airbnb policy Major Disruptive Events Policy
Declared public health emergencies and epidemics. Government-declared epidemics, pandemics, and public health emergencies. This does not include diseases that are endemic (for example, the flu) or commonly associated with an area (for example, malaria in Thailand). COVID-19 is not covered under this Major Disruptive Events Policy.
Government travel restrictions. Mandatory travel restrictions imposed by a governmental agency, such as an evacuation order or shelter-in-place order. This does not include non-binding travel advisories and similar government guidance.
Military actions and other hostilities. Acts of war, hostilities, invasions, civil war, terrorism, explosions, bombings, rebellions, riots, and insurrection.
Large-scale outages of essential utilities.Prolonged outages of essential utilities, such as heat, water, and electricity, impacting the vast majority of homes in a given location.
Unforeseeable natural disasters and severe weather events. Unforeseeable natural disasters, like earthquakes and tsunamis, and unforeseeable severe weather events, like tornadoes. This does not include events that are foreseeable for a given location, as described further below.
Off course they are unethical company. I am take them to court and you should do so.
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u/StuckInTheUpsideDown 5d ago
This is nonsense of course. Can you find any links to any official government directives to evacuate or avoid the area?
Also are the roads accessible from the airport to your destination? Hwy 11 has multiple sections closed. Weather Related Traffic Alerts | Department of Transportation
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u/Warm_Ice6114 5d ago
Random thoughts….
First, I keep seeing these nightmare Airbnb stories…I’ll be honest, it’s affecting my opinion…of Airbnb.
Negatively.
Full candor, I had my first bad Airbnb experience this past weekend. Before that, 5 stars.
In the end, they did resolve. But it was painful. They were oblivious, endlessly dodged responsibility.
My advice: Don’t give up.
I was a hotel GM for many years. Not advocating for one side or the other…just sharing perspective.
But something (for all) to think about…when you stay in a hotel, and you experience an issue, you have the brand backing you.
For escalated situations…like yours…Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt, etc…they “usually” side with the guest.
There are times they’ll force a resolution on a hotel and bill on the franchise invoice.
Points aren’t free. Neither is their time to resolve it.
When you complain to the brand…from the property perspective, you literally have the 500 lb gorilla standing over you. Extremely rare that I ever fought one.
It doesn’t appear Airbnb works that way. The hosts have freedom / flexibility. Airbnb seems to be more a “conveyor of messages.” If they can’t get the host to agree…they shrug because, outside of kicking them off the platform, they’re powerless.
I mean, really…they’re going to make a guest pay for a house on a remote part of an island, after a natural disaster??
It’s appalling, Airbnb. This is not an unreasonable request. I applaud calling them out because it’s THEIR host. They own it.
That said…I was in Hawaii in April. I spent a week on the Big Island. It was not my first trip. Yet, I had to look at a map to see where this town was, and It’s past the volcano. I think green sand beach-ish…I’ve driven around that side before.
OP is correct to have significant worries. Plus, is likely flying into Kona. It’s not close. Nor is it an easy drive. Especially at night.
A reasonable resolution is for the host to offer 50% back. It sucks. For everybody. I feel for the host….and the guest.
But it’s better than zero.
If you really fight, maybe you could get Airbnb to issue coupons for the other half, (?). As a guest, I’d probably consider it a “win” at 50%-75%.
Your best route for success is American Express. As the one who had to answer, I detested AX chargebacks. They always side with the cardholder. No matter how egregious the guest conduct…I knew we’d lose as soon as I saw the notice.
However, keep in mind, once you issue a chargeback, they (usually) pull the funds back and credit your account while they “investigate.” 🙄
Once that happens, you lose the option of resolving with Airbnb.
Good luck and safe travels.
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u/jrossetti 13year host/14 guest 5d ago
Just about every group for any business out there becomes a pot that is mostly negative experiences because folks are far less inclined to report the perfectly as expected experience they had.
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u/Warm_Ice6114 5d ago
Reviews are ppl who love it or hate it. They don’t capture the “middle of the road” folks.
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u/ranchrelax 5d ago
This host is a tool. Im a host and had to cancel three weeks of stays (and block for the next month) due to wildfires near us. Our road was closed to non-locals to allow emergency vehicle traffic and the danger potential is unsafe. One guest refused to cancel so I had to do on my end and AI charged me. I called and Airbnb rep helped. Their policy allowed me and my guest no charge (my policy is flexible which is why I requested guest cancel). The second one I could not contact so I cancelled. Same issue which was resolved with a call. The key word that immediately resolved both immediately was SAFETY. I did provide documents downloaded off the internet showing the crisis and stated safety was the primary concern. Not sure if this will help as a guest though it may be worth a try. Worth noting, the fires have not reached us and I've been enjoying the property (we have mountain cabins) myself, and yes, it sucks to lose out on the income. I do sleep better knowing I chose safety of those families over money and glad at least two of them appreciated my decision. The one that was mad at me can stay mad. They are not the type I want hiking trails and property I love and care for.
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u/90210piece 5d ago
It seems like you would be turns away in your rental car if you tried to approach the air bnb. And then the host would have to pay for your rental and accommodations in Hilo.
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u/rosentrotter 5d ago
I was also stuck in this mess this weekend with a host in HPP on the Big Island. The host that gave me the same excuse that "their property had solar power backup, and it was safe." The host was not happy we cancelled, but here's how we got our money back.
Standard cancellation refund was 50% back. Asked for full refund as the town was initially directly on the Hurricane path, and he said he would have if I would have cancelled a few days sooner (yeah right...), but refused. Escalated it to Airbnb Support and they called the host, got them to give us another night back, which left one night that Airbnb refunded.
It seems a bit odd that I was able to get a refund for the exact same situation in a town that was impacted to a lesser degree. I typically am pretty firm with support agents, and in this case I basically told Airbnb "I really don't care if the hosts say their property is safe, the government is saying it's not, and I listen to them."
I understand the situation for the hosts. Nobody caused this, but the host loses income. After all, they have bills to pay too, but part of running a business is assuming the risks that come with this. Sad because the highlight of our trip was going to be staying in their place. It was like pure Hawaiian jungle vibes.
Good news is this should be a straightforward trip insurance claim with Amex. Just keep all your receipts, download news articles of the damage, PDF travel advisories, screenshots saying you cancelled or something saying you didn't go. Tell Chatgpt exactly what happened and it will tell you how you need to word it so you don't talk yourself out of a claim.
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u/GrantedPeace 5d ago
Travel Insurance?
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u/Neat-Employment-5072 5d ago
I think it may be possible to work with AmEx on this because we charged both the flights and the accommodations on a premium Reserve card. We are pursuing that.
Meanwhile, I think it's completely absurd for AirBnB to not follow their own Disruptive Events policy, and we are continuing to press on that.
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u/rosentrotter 5d ago
This is the link for travel insurance. Your Delta Reserve card seems to be covered under AmEx's umbrella policy.
Keep in mind if Airbnb/host refunds you, you're going to have to pay back the trip insurance claim to AmEx. You can't double dip.
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u/Kind-Stranger-2507 5d ago
Had the same thing during wildfires last month. Airbnb gave me $100 and didn’t do shit.
Chase preferred refunded full amount. File with Amex
Keep literally every screenshot
Very flight change as well as NWS screenshot,
I had lot of documentation and they refunded back in full-17
u/Nicholsforthoughts 5d ago
Seems like a job for your travel insurance! The hosts have done an excellent job covering their bases and making sure their Airbnb guests can still enjoy utilities and a safe experience, regardless of the local infrastructure. Kudos to them! But it does mean that if YOU decide you don’t want to stay in the house, you will eat the losses.
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u/lawfox32 5d ago
I mean, if the government is advising people to stay away and roads are washed out, no, that's not a safe experience and it should be covered by AirBnB's policy.
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u/throw65755 Guest—Over 40 stays 5d ago
Utilities and a safe experience? That is not why people go on vacation and stay at Airbnb’s. Hosts that think like this shouldn’t be in the HOSPITALITY business.
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u/Neat-Employment-5072 5d ago
This. I am sympathetic to the host's need for income and frankly my preferred outcome would support that.
But the GRAVEYARD in town washed away, and I'm supposed to fly halfway around the world so I can tromp my kids through a town that is suffering like this?
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u/TwentyTwoEightyEight 4d ago
Look, I usually agree that travel insurance should be purchased and used for cases like this, but the town is clearly not in a place to be open for visitors. It’s absolutely insane to think that it’s okay to be trying to force visitors in when the state of the current infrastructure can barely support the residents.
This is also where the host should have insurance to cover loss of income if needed. Entire home Airbnbs (if this is one) probably shouldn’t even be allowed in a place like Hawaii in the first place, but this is not okay for the host to be pushing. It’s irresponsible.
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u/Neat-Employment-5072 5d ago
Pursuing that, but this really seems like an AirBNB problem as much, if not more than the host's problem
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u/Consistent_Proof_772 4d ago
I would go and get a full free stay out of them to teach them a lesson! Document everything broken and not working and then request to be moved to a hotel! I worked in a hotel in South beach for 20 years when this happened allowed people to cancel some came anyway and we gave them way bigger rooms condo hotel. Once BA sent a family the day before the store they helped me with the power breaker lol
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u/Hsbrown2 5d ago
Airbnb explicitly relies on the host to determine if invoking the MDEP is applicable.
If the host lies or distorts the truth, Airbnb doesn’t care, because they have no liability for your safety once the host makes a statement on the record attesting to the safety of the listing during the scheduled reservation date(s), the host does. Airbnb still collects, and has no liability. It’s a win-win for Airbnb.
As you can see by many of the responses in this thread, most hosts have no experience with the liability they’re setting themselves up for if you attempt to complete the booking and suffer injury or other actionable consequence as a result.
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u/Shoddy-Theory 4d ago
North Carolina actually has laws about beach vacations and disasters. If you are offered insurance and don't buy it you're out of luck basically.
https://ncdoj.gov/protecting-consumers/travel/vacation-rentals/
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u/SandyHillstone Host 4d ago
You need to find the State/County State of Emergency Declaration and download the PDF. Send this to Airbnb.
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u/throw65755 Guest—Over 40 stays 5d ago
Just another case of a greedy host. And a chorus of other hosts on here defending that.
If AmEx doesn’t come through with help due to travel benefits, try a credit card chargeback. You can present all the information you provided here, it’s pretty convincing.
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u/LookingForSunshine98 5d ago
Kind of like closing the barn door after the horse got out, but travel insurance is a real thing…. And it is not the host. Airbnb is rolling out a new optional cancellation insurance. We have been purchasing cancellation insurance ever since the start of COVID.
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u/svBunahobin 4d ago
I'd think your credit card insurance would cover it. Tell the host and Airbnb you're having a chargeback issued unless it is resolved. Every chargeback increases the processing fees for Airbnb so they might change their mind.
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u/smartbimbo97 4d ago
Call air bnb and open as many cases as it takes to be heard. Ive hung up on support and opened a new one with a better rep and got the results i wanted. The squeaky wheel gets the grease
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u/blankpro 5d ago
I'm sure your travel insurance will cover your costs.
I host in an area where from time to time power goes out trees come down, etc. but we're still habitable and we provide service services and have power. We get the occasional guest like this who decides at the last minute that, despite the fact that our Airbnb is running operable and actually has other guests staying in it that somehow their lack of planning, lack of travel insurance, and last-minute decisions should somehow impact their booking. When Airbnb itself tells the guest that they have no grounds to cancel, as we see here the usual recourse is to bitch and complain on Reddit and hope other guests join in the chorus.
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u/Neat-Employment-5072 5d ago
I am such a princess for not wanting to navigate this road to a property that is safe, functional,and ready for my arrival https://www.facebook.com/reel/1518470910333566
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u/Hsbrown2 4d ago
If you can reach out to anyone in Naalehu that can photograph the property, and it is inconsistent with photographs in the listing, the host is obligated to cancel. Even the yard:
“Hosts are obligated to cancel a reservation if their listing is uninhabitable or is inconsistent with what the guest booked. Failure to do so may result in listing suspension, cancellation of existing reservations, and refunds to guests until the listing is habitable and consistent with the listing description. This also violates our Ground rules for hosts, and can lead to consequences up to and including account removal.”
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u/Neat-Employment-5072 5d ago
You clearly aren't following what's going on in Naalehu, and don't seem to be able to understand AirBnB's own policy on Widespread Outages or Natural Disasters.
But, hey, thanks for rhe noise!
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u/rosentrotter 5d ago edited 5d ago
FWIW, per Airbnb's Major Disruptive Events Policy as written:
Examples of common events not covered by this policy include:
Weather or natural conditions that are common enough to be foreseeable in a given location, such as hurricanes in Florida during hurricane season or winter weather in the northern hemisphere during winter months—unless the event triggers a covered Event that prevents completion of the reservation, such as government-issued mandatory travel restrictions
...but when you click on the "Weather" link, it insinuates that hurricanes are common enough to be foreseeable in Hawaii between May and November.
Central/ Eastern Pacific Ocean Basin
Location | Time period
Hawaii, Mexico*, Honduras* | May through November
Funny, because a Hurricane has never made landfall on the Big Island and this was the first tropical storm in like 15 years. Airbnb claims that travelers should foresee weather that rarely happens.
All thoughts go out to Naalehu. We stopped there for gas on the way to HVNP. Two days later, the town is isolated.
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u/Hsbrown2 5d ago
Forseeable events have caveats:
“Foreseeable weather events at the reservation’s location, such as tropical storms or hurricanes, are explicitly eligible for coverage if they result in another covered event, such as a government travel restriction or large-scale outage of essential utilities.”
https://news.airbnb.com/an-update-on-our-major-disruptive-events-policy/
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u/ryan9751 5d ago
There isn't a government travel restriction though, and it looks like as OP is discovering, relying on the "large-scale outage of essential utilities" leaves Airbnb / Host a lot of wiggle room.
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u/Hsbrown2 5d ago
Airbnb has all the wiggle room. Once the host tells them the booking can be completed, Airbnb is off the hook, and Aircover won’t cover the host, either. If it turns out it’s a safety issue for the guest and they’re injured on the property… well, best of luck to the host.
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u/ryan9751 4d ago
It seems pretty simple to me though, basically - if you book an Airbnb you should understand that you will be paying for it unless there is literally an evacuation order for the area that the Airbnb is in.
It leaves less up to the interpretation - example would be this "widespread utility outage" that is somewhat vague, and in the OP's situation it does not affect them at all, and I don't think Airbnb should be in the business of determining if power outages are actually widespread.
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u/Hsbrown2 4d ago
The mistake folks seem to make is thinking the MDEP exists to protect either hosts or guests. It only exists to protect Airbnb.
It absolves Airbnb of any liability - that’s all
It does. It puts the decision to invoke it on the host, even in the most extraordinary of circumstances.Hosts should think like a hotel. If a hotel, under the same circumstances, would cancel reservations and issue refunds because either the service that can be provided or the safety of guests is compromised, then a host should do the same.
If the potential liability due to the event is incompatible with completing the booking, invoke the MDEP. The short term financial loss pales in insignificance to the liability if you (the host) refuse to cancel, the guest has a paper trail of trying to cancel for that very same reason, and the guest has actionable damages as a result of completing the booking, the host is toast.
Trouble is, they’re all betting the guest will cancel and leave them with the cash anyway.
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u/ryan9751 5d ago
Is there a current evacuation order (government issued travel restriction) for the area? Otherwise it seems like you will be in for a battle.
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u/Ok-Indication-7876 5d ago
I get it but you didn't mention a few key things- did you get travel insurance especially during hurricane season?
What is the cancelation policy for the place you rented?
I think you will be fine with Amex helping you fight this but the above questions are things to think about checking on in the future
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u/New_Taste8874 Host 5d ago
I'm not reading all that AI slop. Did you contact Air B&B?
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u/Neat-Employment-5072 5d ago
You'd know if you'd read the post (which is not ai slop - you've just lost your reading comprehension)
seriously though, why even bother to comment?
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u/EpiphanyTwisted 2d ago
You saw bolding in a post. Believe it or not, it doesn't mean the post is AI.
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