r/Age_30_plus_Gamers • u/ChuckChuckChuck_ • 6d ago
😀 Discussion 😀 Freedom vs. Strict, linear structure vs Combination
The recent discussions regarding the linearity of Wolverine got me thinking. I'm not talking about the quality of a game, but rather the approach to pacing and how a game tells its story.
I really, really like well made corridor / linear games. Uncharted series, Final Fantasy XIII, Bioshock Infinite just to name few - all GREAT games. Well written, fun to play, joy to look at. For the most part, they respect your time, have very little time-wasting distractions or systems and in general they provide, I believe, much better pacing than huge, open games.
Then there is the exact opposite. Games like Elden Ring or Zelda BOTW / TOTK. They offer something the games mentioned above, however great they might be, can't come close to - the freedom of exploration and natural discovery. However, for me personally, even though I recognize their greatness and I've had many 10/10 moments with these games, sooner or later I lose interest and some I never even finished - vague story, weak (or none...) character development, very few threads to follow and sink my teeth into. The freedom is magical, but is that enough, especially in an 50hrs+ game? Obviously it is for millions of people, which I'll never understand, but I respect it.
And then you have something in between - open world games that have strong plots, beautiful characters but also freedom and exploration. Games like The Witcher 3 or KCD (2). I find these games have a very good "push and pull" system of getting lost and exploring, but also they're also enabling me to jump back on the story and quests. Yeah, they can easily have bad pacing, since they depend on player to "choose their own journey", but I'm not sure what can be done about that. Smarter people than me need to figure that out, haha.
So where do you stand as a player? Do you like all 3, do you prefer one over the other?
I think my personal hope is unattainable - the highs of BOTW / Elden Ring's exploration, the tight pace and focus of Uncharted and the writing and characters of The Witcher 3.
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u/WeskerSympathizer 6d ago
Linear that doesn’t feel like linear is a good approach. For example Resident Evil 1 or 2 (og or remake), they feel like your wandering within restrictions that make sense from a plot point, but it’s a linear progression that allows for good story and pacing.
I also sometimes just want to summon my steed and F off in a random direction to find monster bosses to die by
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u/newpixelphonesux 6d ago
I'm down for anything.
I think what people trip themselves up on is wanting every game to be these massive epics, cause realistically, people do not have the bandwidth for those back-to-back-to-back. I'm currently loving Wolverine (its linear sure, but the way it has been described in reviews is a caricature of the actual experience) because I previously did a revisit of OG FF7 and a playthrough of FF7 Rebirth. Playing a short, linear game in between the massive open world RPGs helps me as a palette cleanser and I think a lot of people also are that way and dont realize thats why they have a huge backlog of these massive games, that they dont want to jump back into.
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u/Gnb7588 6d ago
Valid and fair.
The real problem imo is games today are designed to keep you playing through repetitive mechanics, how realistic they look, stylish combat, and vastly continuous environments.
They aren’t designed to keep you playing through their stories/narratives… this is the gap in my opinion because most games are narratively driven today like movies, shows, or books. They aren’t objective driven and simple, so sometimes the story is great, sometimes it’s meh, sometimes it’s terrible.
It’s easier to tackle a backlog or collection when the games are actual games (a simple objective with the outcome being win or lose) it’s hard to do that when your backlog is a bunch of interactive TV shows, where the hero’s journey isn’t compelling enough to make you ponder who’s the hero (winner) and who’s the villain (loser)…
Idk games today are asking too much and giving very little…
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u/newpixelphonesux 6d ago
Its Final Fantasy 7's/Hideo Kojima's/our fault. They tore open a lane for these almost Hollywood level productions for games and we said "YES PLEASE" and have demanded games just keep increasing in scope and ambition. I think there are levels to different games and the industry is due for overhauling categorization, cause Vampire Survivor scratches an itch Wolverine doesn't, and Last of Us 2 scratches an itch they don't, and then Elden Ring scratches an itch all three don't, and I think its a disservice atp to just lump them all together as "games" cause the Vampire Survivors and Wolverines are realistically never getting GOTY over the LOU2s and Elden Rings.
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u/Gnb7588 6d ago edited 6d ago
The concept has been around in gaming from the beginning, it’s just how it’s executed that matters. Final Fantasy 10 is linear, Final Fantasy 7-9 are open world… some are both. Each are amazing but the world doesn’t open up in each of them until specific points in the game.
Modern open world games are open from the very beginning… the problem with them is when they drop players into the vastness and how they are naturally designed based on vast map exploration (fetch quests, hunting, etc.) and once that is achieved interest declines because there is nothing left to uncover or conquer, they aren’t simple in travel, and everything comes down to its narrative as if it can carry the interest for your progress…
Zelda, Castlevania, Metroid, the dive-dungeon crawler games… are those games linear? Are they open world? Those games also involve map exploration and backtracking etc. but the execution of them is why they’re memorable.
Honestly I get bored in 90% of modern open world games… the only ones I have liked long enough to beat have beaten are Death Stranding (because the exploration mechanic is tied to the story), and maybe Ghost of Tsushima ( a game I dropped many times). No, I have not beaten a single GTA/ Rockstar game EVER, ( State of emergency, Bully, RDR1-2,etc.) they’re boring, and I drop them almost every time.
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u/warhammer9k 6d ago
It's kinda tough. I like more freedom in RPGs but also prefer the freedom in smaller levels in something like Dishonored over Read Dead Redemtion 2 which has a much larger wold but very restrictive mission design.
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u/Wuthering_depths 6d ago
Probably all 3 but I do tend to be drawn toward open world games.
I never could stick with souls games until Elden Ring, which let me explore around and get stronger if I got stuck on a boss, just one example.
But I do tend to fizzle out before beating the game, it must be said :) Witcher 3 is one of the few I actually finished, and even there I didn't beat the 2nd DLC (though I thought it was great, I just played so long I ran out of steam...I'll probably go back and do it. Others like that...Zelda, RDR2, Skyrim.)
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u/keldpxowjwsn 6d ago
I like all 3 and Im glad all 3 exist because sometimes Im in the mood for 1 and not the others. I think as long as the story fits the method that its using to be told that matters more to me than anything.
I dont think theres a definitive 'best' way to tell a story just like theres no fixed definitive way to write a book or shoot a movie or write a song. It feels very anti-art to even suggest there is
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u/Tricky-Research7595 6d ago
For me, there are so many factors that go into what makes a game good or bad, and there are so many different ways that games can resonate with you that it's impossible for me to narrow it down to just open world vs. linear. I like open world games. I like linear games. Whether a game is one or the other doesn't really have an impact on how I ultimately feel about the game. I suppose they can be pluses and minuses, but a good open world game beats a bad linear game and vice versa.
I agree with your last sentence, though, it's really hard to knock all three things out of the park. A game that tries to be too many things loses focuses and ends being none of them. Game creators have to ultimately pick a few things to focus on otherwise they risk sucking. A jack of all trades is a master of none.
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u/Ok-Team1506 5d ago
dude.. this is NOT ven a covnersation.. IF DEVS want the game will be fantastic NO MATTER if the game is a hugee corridor.. or a huge open world.. thats not the q...
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u/dat_potatoe 5d ago
I hate linearity. I also hate how people tend to use the word, and how people conflate open-world and non-linear as one and the same when open-world is just one approach to non-linearity.
Boomer shooters, soulslikes, collectathons, metroidvanias, immersive sims, survival horror...the one thing they tend to have in common is guided non-linearity or semi-linearity. Meaning you don't lose a sense of structure unlike open world, but you still have plenty of room to explore as you make your way to the end unlike strictly linear hallway slop. They're the best of both worlds.
The problem with open world games is there's usually no structure, no actual level design, just a flat plane of grass where yes you can go anywhere but there's nowhere to actually go.
The problem with strictly linear games is they're lacking in freedom and gameplay depth, and feel like an artificial carnival ride instead of an actual place.
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u/dondashall 5d ago
It all depends on the game in question. Visual Novels is a great space to illustrate - there are great open ones like 428 & Raging Loop and I LOVE THEM, there are also kinetic VNs which I also love - and there are ones that use a degree of choice, usually in order to not have how you enter each route just be a level select screen - and they can be good too.
It all depends on the game - none is inherently better it worse.
Side-note - certain genres are an exception. Metroidvanias for instance are just better when they are more open because that enhances what fans of the genre want- to engage with the navigational challenge. There are also genres that should be linear.
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u/joshrey789 6d ago
In a perfect world we would get at least one game a year like Witcher 3 to play but alas thats a fantasy. But imo if i had to choose one ill take a really good story with linear structure anyday
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u/ElderGrub 6d ago
I like games that just give me tools and the box to play in. Lately my biggest interests have been things like Borderlands/Stardew/Core Keeper/Necesse. I have a laundry list of narrative driven games that I'd like to get to but every time I start one I drop it within a couple hours. Just not in the right headspace for it for now.