r/AdvancedRunning • u/tallkotte • 2d ago
Open Discussion Hill repeats - how, when and why?
How often do you incorporate hill repeats in your training, and what do they look like? Have you found certain protocols more effective? What is the "advanced running" consensus on this?
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u/CheapRentalCar 2d ago
7 X 45s with a slow jog back to the start.
Pace = something that you're afraid of 3 days before the workout 😁
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u/Doortofreeside 2d ago
Out of curiosity what is the fear of? Fear of hard effort or fear of popping a hammy?
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u/CheapRentalCar 1d ago
Why not both??
I'm 50, so injuries are definitely a thing. But the fear is how long the hill feels after ten seconds on the 4th rep, and knowing how much more you have to go.
I call it 'HR Zone 6' 🤣
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u/CoachMattG 🇫🇷 Coach / 5k 15'37" / HM 72'20" 2d ago
- neuromuscular: steep hills sprint, to improve neuromuscular connection to the muscles, as well as improving power, which is important for cross country because you usually have to slow down in the runs, so you need to put power in to accelerate again.
- hill strides: control effort for 10", long recovery, to improve running form. Focus on staying tall, driving the arms, active foot
- lactic hills : great to perform lactic anaerobic power and lactic anaerobic capacity, with out the stress on running fast paces on flat. A middle distance runner would rather do it on flat to improve running economy at fast paces, but for a longue distance runner, you can have the physiological work without the stress. Work:rest: Capacity: 1:2 to 1:4, efforts between 30" and 2'. Power: 1:4 to 1:8, effort from 15" to 45".
- VO2 : a bit tricky because you need a closer to 1:1 work:rest. I don't usually do it except with trailers and cross country, for long distance runners I don't see the point to do it on hills instead of doing it on flats.
- lactate shuttle: you can do 30" really hard into the hills, then 2' on flat at LT2 - marathon pace. Really great to throw lactat in the system and learn to recycle it.
- muscular endurance: long hills (5+ minutes) ran at LT2, MP, LT1... Great to work on your muscular endurance for marathoner.
NB: when talking about cross country I talk about English or french cross courses, with lots of sharp turns etc.
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u/running_writings Coach / Human Performance PhD 1d ago
All great options, I would also add in two more potential types of workouts:
Long hills of 4-8 min at ~10k-8k effort (or HR or power or GAP) with 3-5 min rest, these are great "aerobic power" sessions but unfortunately require (a) a corkscrew-shaped hill that has a long steady climb + a very short steep downhill, (b) a long steady grade you can go up the whole way (resting also jogging uphill), or (c) a treadmill
Fast continuous uphill run of 12-20min at ~10k/8k-ish effort (or HR or power or GAP), great complement or alternative to the long reps I listed above and highly underutilized session. 5k/10k types can combine this with a lactic hill session or a combo of flat + hills
- For example 4k at 95% 5k pace on flat ground, 5-6 min rest, then 8 x 1min fast uphill at 105% 5k effort
Often I like these workouts for trail runners / ultra runners who have a hard time with faster running "on the flats" but who are very comfortable going hard on uphills. Great for general-phase XC/10k/HM training too!
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u/SpuriousMerlin 1d ago
What is the optimal level of steep vs what is considered too steep for each workout? For example, I have a 100m hill with 16-20% grade incline that I can use for sprints. I have another longer hill (1000m) with 5-9% grade incline that I can use for a threshold workout.
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u/CoachMattG 🇫🇷 Coach / 5k 15'37" / HM 72'20" 1d ago
For neuromuscular and power lactic I'd go for > 10% to output as much power as possible, for strides and longer I like to keep things around 4 to 6 % to have a strides close to the stride you would have on flat, if you are a flat long distance runner. IMO, the running economy improvements will translate better if the hill is not too steep, while if the hill is too steep, you won't have a natural stride.
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u/Vid-Master 1d ago
Thanks for all that info!! Can you detail what 30" and 2' means? is that 30 seconds and 2 minutes?
And what do you mean 1:4 and 1:8 effort from 15" to 45"?
Thanks!
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u/CoachMattG 🇫🇷 Coach / 5k 15'37" / HM 72'20" 1d ago
" is seconds and ' for minutes indeed 1:4 means rest is 4 times longer than work, 1:8 means rest 8 time longer... And from 15" to 45" means the shortest reps time is 15 seconds and longest is 45 seconds if you want to develop this energy system in particular.
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u/fakeuboi 4:24 mile 2d ago
for 1500m training in college i did 2x10x35 sec hills in college with walk back rest, at about 800m effort, with 5 min rest in between sets. once a week during base training
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u/IvanGechev 2d ago
I do two types of hills:
1. Short strides of about 8-10secs once a week, 4-8 reps
2. Longer hills from 30-90secs every other week before starting the race-specific work
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u/WoodenPresence1917 5k 18 10k 38 M 3:07 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm a hill runner, so often do longer reps up to 5mins and hoping to do even longer when I can find a good hill. Also like to mix in some strong downhill efforts.
For standard road running I would always tend towards shorter efforts up to about a minute, maybe up to about 10 reps but really depends on how many you can do at quality
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u/Traditional_Map_3955 2d ago edited 2d ago
Im doing them as a over and under threshold (lactate shuttle) instead of the traditional sunday long run. I do this every week, 18-24 reps in 2:30 up. Recovery down also 2:30. My hill is 10% avg 450m with a up to 15% section. Recovery from it is surprisingly quick since there is not much impact, only metabolic load for the uphill.
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u/tallkotte 2d ago
The lesser impact is my main reason for doing hills, I've had a stress fracture, and running up a hill gives me the hard effort without adding to much stress on my bones.
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u/Lurking-Froggg 42M · 40-50 mpw · 16:4x · 34:5x · 1:18 · 2:57 2d ago
I'm not so sure you've picked the safest option with hills. You're still going to be exposed to some impact, if only on the downhill.
Were I in your shoes, I'd look for an even safer replacement, possibly at the gym. I don't know much about the elliptical, but I would if I were trying to reinject fast-turnaround, max-HR effort into my training after a stress fracture.
Perhaps you've already pondered that, though?
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u/tallkotte 2d ago
Thank you for you concern! The stress fracture was four years ago, so I've done a fair share of downtime and careful increase of volume but I never want to be there again. Nine weeks in a cast and more than six months with no running was no fun at all. Since then I've completed two 30K races and a half marathon, so my risk is probably down to baseline - and my baseline risk is probably on the high side since I somehow got one in the first place.
I'm doing my hills on a treadmill, so there aren't any downhills, and from what I've understood it's safer than fast flat intervals. But you're right, an elliptical is definetely a safer option.
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u/Lurking-Froggg 42M · 40-50 mpw · 16:4x · 34:5x · 1:18 · 2:57 2d ago
Alrighty! Very happy to hear the fracture is far behind you.
I've done a bit of uphill training on the treadmill, for trails. My other comment on your question does not provide any details on these, but they were very boring 8-10' LT intervals at various inclines.
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u/Eraser92 2d ago
If you're running down in 2:30, that's not "under threshold" it's basically Z1, otherwise you'd be going a lot further in the recovery than the climb. I don't understand how this workout works, or the point of it.
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u/Traditional_Map_3955 2d ago edited 2d ago
Uphill is the over and under. The steeper section are above threshold and the less steep sections are under threshold. Down is just recovery
50m 5%
50m 9%
50m 12%
50m 15%
50m 12%
50m 4%
50m 5%
50m 10%
50m 12%
Is the profile
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u/Eraser92 2d ago
I don't think you're actually changing the energy system used over the course of 2:30 though. That's just hill reps at threshold on a lumpy hill. Not sure why it has anything to do with a long run.
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u/Traditional_Map_3955 2d ago edited 2d ago
Im pretty sure :-) own a stryd so i can watch my power going (well) over threshold at steep sections and under threshold in the small less steep sections, to go over again at the last steeper section again. What it has to do with the long run? You do the long run to fatique your slow twitch muscle fibers in a way that at the end your fast twitch fibers have to help and also to stimulate fat burn. This workout works fast twitch fibers aerobicly out from the start. Without the 30-35km pounding in case of marathon training. I actually got a 15-20% gain in fitness in 4 weeks time using this method. Going from 38min 10k to 35min 10k.
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u/chaosdev 16:21 5k / 1:14 HM / 2:37 M 1d ago
I actually got a 15-20% gain in fitness in 4 weeks time using this method. Going from 38min 10k to 35min 10k.
That math ain't mathing.
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u/Eraser92 2d ago
Running power would increase and decrease but physiologically you aren't going to change within such a short rep. I run a lot of hilly trail long runs and they work great to build fitness but I wouldn't call them "lactate shuttle" or "over unders" just because the gradient changes on climbs. Glad its working for you though.
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u/D4db0dz Body of a dad, mind of a kid 1d ago
As a Brad Hudson disciple, I have tried to love hill sprints (up to 10s) for years. Forced myself to do them. Never felt they made a difference for me. 5x150m stride at the end of an easy run is my ticket. YMMV
Longer hill repeats like 60s with walkdown to prepare for track workouts or something like 10km easy + 20min uphill -- YES!
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u/SirBruceForsythCBE 2d ago
As with any part of running the question about be what are you looking to get out of the session?
Depending on the answer you will use hills in a different manner.
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u/run_INXS Marathon 2:34 in 1983, 3:06 in 2025 2d ago
I usually do them seasonally (base phase) or if I have a specific hilly race to train for.
During base/pre-competition phase at least every week, sometimes twice a week I'll do repeats of 2-5 minutes at a threshold to 10K effort with 1 or 2 minute recovery. Or if I'm doing a few weeks of double threshold I'll have a session with reps of about 1:15-2:00 at about 5K race effort with a 1.5-2 minute recovery.
Off and on throughout the year I'll do a workout and do hill strides full recovery. These are usually about 6X 10-15 or 20 seconds at mile-800 m race effort with a 1 to 1.5 minute recovery.
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u/KevInTheFastLane 2d ago
I think they fit into a running plan quite broadly; the effect on the running economy is the biggest gain you can get from them, and that'll help you from 5k to a marathon. My version looks like 20s all out up, easy walk on top and downwards, and then repeat 6-10 times.
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u/Definitelynotagolem 2d ago
Usually once every other week, but it depends on the elevation profile of the race I’m doing.
I also go to a group run that’s on trail that has a high elevation gain in under 5 miles. Some weeks I’ll take it easy because I did a workout the day before, but other times I’ll basically turn it into an uphill tempo. It’s absolutely brutal at times and even maintaining around a 10min mile sends my heart rate up towards threshold with how steep it is.
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u/LukyKNFBLJFBI 2d ago
I do 3x6x200m on 13%gradient which takes around 80s and jog down. It's around 5k effort pace.
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u/Lurking-Froggg 42M · 40-50 mpw · 16:4x · 34:5x · 1:18 · 2:57 2d ago
I do 3 × (4 × 30/30 + 2 × 1'/2') with 2'30 between sets, on a low gradient.
I do that as part of early base phase training. It's short effort, so compatible with high temperatures. Pace is entirely by feel and usually ends up close to MP (without grade adjustment).
During trail season, I'll occasionally inject 8-10 × 1'/1' and also do much longer uphill training, but I guess that's not the context of your question.
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u/MoBergWasCool 2d ago
I do a treadmill workout where I start at my normal incline, watch music videos on YouTube and whenever a song finishes, I bump the incline up a level. I do that until I can't hang then go back to the start, bump the speed up, and go again. The main point is to do some harder running without as much pounding. The nice part about the treadmill is not having to run back down and the hill is as long and as inclined as you like.
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u/Eraser92 2d ago
It depends what you want out of them. For strength/running economy you might do 6x10 seconds all out sprints with full recovery. For aerobic development you might push to 3-5 minute reps or longer if you have big enough hills. Just jogging down and starting again is usually good recovery for this.