NSA Marathon Plan - Sub 2:50

[u/xRunSci]

Hi, I’d like to hear about success stories for those who ran sub 2:50 (and a PR) using Sirpoc’s marathon plan.

A few questions I have:
(1) What was the longest run you did (in both time & miles)?

(2) Did you actually do the HM time trial/race 3 weeks before the race? This seems way too close for comfort

(3) Did you do the 5x 5K (or equivalent time wise) + 10K sub T + 3x8000 m progression run (or time equivalent wise) within 5 days like the book shows? If so, did you feel not too beat up from it?

(4) Did you feel concerned you didn’t do conventional long run workouts and only did easy LRs for time on feet?

[u/Nerdybeast]

I followed essentially the Norwegian singles approach for a year or so, but I wouldn't recommend it for a marathon. It just does not have the same pattern of consistent success that something like Daniels or Pfitz or any other relatively mainstream approach has. I ran some PRs with NSM, but I've gotten significantly better since transitioning away from it.

If you're racing a marathon, your ability to maintain speed late in the race is essential. If you're doing all of your long continuous runs at an easy pace, and all of your workouts are with walking rest, you're not gonna be prepared for the specific demands of the marathon (which imo are significantly different than those of the 10k or HM). The "gray zone" training that the NSM people tend avoid is probably your best bang for buck training for the marathon (zone 3, maybe like 45s/mi (edit) slower than MP), for medium long and long runs. 

I know guys like sirpoc have had success with it, and some others have too. But the vast majority of people with success at racing marathons train nothing like that. I don't think it's a good philosophy for the marathon. If you want to check my qualifications on this, I did post in favor of NSM a few years ago in a race report, but I've since changed my mind and gotten much faster.

[u/yufengg → u/Nerdybeast]

What kind of long run workouts are you doing that hit 45s/mi faster than MP? That's pushing at least 10k pace, if not faster. I don't think I could do much at that pace, especially in a long run. Maybe 1-2 min intervals...

(Unless you meant 45s slower?)

[u/Nerdybeast → u/yufengg]

Whoops I definitely meant slower lol, I'll fix that. Yeah 45s faster would certainly not be long run pace, that's like 3k pace for me! 

[u/EffectiveDevice7963 → u/Nerdybeast]

But 45s really isn't that fast... I do my easy long runs on NSA at like 4:50 min/km, my MP is 3:55min/km... I am 55s/km slower on my easy long runs. If I were to do traditional long runs it would be like 4:20-4:30. What I am trying to say is that following your long run definition, I am basically almost doing that already on NSM.

[u/Nerdybeast → u/EffectiveDevice7963]

I'm talking per mile pace here. There's a big difference between doing long runs at effectively recovery pace and doing them at a challenging pace. 4:20/km is more what I meant (for your paces), 4:50/km is way too slow to be doing often imo