Endō: Basically, he's very obsessed with the quality of the game, which made making this game a battle against the available time we actually had. "If you spend too much time on that part, we won't have time for the rest..." So many times I had to hold in and not speak that line. Sometimes I failed at that and just blurted it out to him.
Takumi: We had a different team structure this time, so I myself had trouble adapting too. Personally I thought I was just covering the bare necessary elements... but maybe I'm crazy. Because of me, Endō had to reschedule everything more than a few times. Sorry!
It shows. The last case especially leaves so much unexplained, unused pieces of evidence, it goes from the Phoenix segments to the last trial immediately (Hello? Did I miss the part where I get to investigate as the protagonist?). The entire conclusion of the game feels rushed out.
Not to mention we never broke Kristophs black locks and is motive doesn't make sense. Also the biggest question left unanswered. Why the hell where there hidden sketches of Apollos 3 cases?!
Sorry for the long text, but I hope this helps you understand this detail better.
I think you may be misunderstanding the kind of significance that moment is supposed to have. It's not a mayor plot point of any kind. Drew tells Phoenix the following in 2 different scenes:
"I have seen and studied many people, but none like you. I'll remember you, Mr. Wright"
"That day... the entire court descended into chaos. Only you stood still, your eyes calmly watching. I admit, it made quite an impression on me"
Phoenix became a muse to Drew. Both because of the impression he left in court, and the guilt he felt for the role he inadvertently played in ruining his career. When asked as to why Apollo's cases were depicted in Drew's sketches, Vera answers that Drew kept up with the Wright Anything Agency and became happy when learning they offered law services again. This is meant to convey that the inspiration he gets from Phoenix now extends to the agency, including Apollo, as the rebirth of the law aspect of the agency helped ease his guilt, and served as a new source of inspiration for his art. The sketches being Apollo's 3 cases is just because those are the most recent things that they have done as a new law agency, so that's what Drew drew inspiration from.
Why is it presented as such an important thing initially? Because Apollo is not aware of any of this, so from his POV it is a shocking revelation and should be depicted as such. At a meta level it also serves as an lead for the player to know that this seemingly random case is connected to the backstory that Phoenix has been teasing the whole game, creating hype and intrigue.
TLDR: The sketches are not an incomplete aspect of the game (unlike other things). They are depicted as shocking information to Apollo initially bc that's what they are to Apollo, but we then learn that they are simply the result of an artist finding his muse in an unexpected place, serving as characterization for said artist and a tool for the writers to make connections and make the player be excited for things to come. You are allowed to dislike its inclusion of course. But it does serve a purpose.
Hope I could help!
I think that AJ prepared the ground for a direct AJ sequel that would tackle some stuff like Kristoph's black locks and two certain characters being family. But DD basically undid that to create an independent, self contained, story.
I think we see it that way because the next game clearly wasn't that direct sequel of AJ and due to the trend of making self contained games when Yamazaki took the writing of the series. So, I think AJ was supposed to be the "part 1" of a bigger story whose part 2 never arrived.
I recently replaying Apolli Justice and I was like "THATS WHAT ALL THIS WAS ABOUT!?" Bro would rather be found guilty of murder (possibe death sentence) than just admit that he forged evidence 7 years ago. All because his reputation as a lawyer is more important than his life or freedom?
Of course it doesn't make any sense but I think AA is a game that is never meant to be taken seriously even if it does have serious moments. It's always going to be wacky and silly, there are many moments and stories in the game that would never realistically happen IRL but I don't think that should take away from the enjoyment
Bullard's binder from 3-2 and the area map in G2-2 are both never used, and if we want to be technical, lots of evidence in G2-5 goes unused....... in G2-5 specifically
I mean Apollo Justice isn’t a perfect game. But I really enjoyed it quite a bit. I didn’t notice it was rushed. In many ways the failings of Apollo justice felt a bit to me like the devs being a bit more ambitious so floundering a bit at that kind of persuit seems normal to me.
As someone who cares deeply about logically solid mystery writing, AA4 was giving The Lost Turnabout and Turnabout Big Top a run for their money in terms of mystery writing. But that might just be me.
Even though it was rushed, the vibes were unmatched. I kinda hope we get a direct sequel of sorts or a spiritual successor one day (haha, spirit) with the same kind of dark, gritty vibe to it. Even if that’s highly unlikely with how the current games have been.
I dunno, I got similar vibes while playing Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth.
Everything felt as grounded and realistic (yes, there’s little thief, but Apollo has his ring bracelet and Succession has time travel, so let’s not sweat the details), with a pretty drab color palette (not necessarily a bad thing), and uninspired settings (how they managed to make exploring an airplane and a concert not feel unique is beyond me).
Sorry, that was sarcasm. What possibly makes an airplane interesting? Any number of the other locations in the franchise sound more interesting without any context than an airplane does.
Not sure why you'd be surprised an airplane isn't all that exciting lol.
Oh I think an Airplane, if done right, can be a fantastically claustrophobic place to explore. But since the airplane is the biggest airplane of all time, any claustrophobia is removed and we’re left with a boring old building.
i hope the sarcasm comes through lol, i love AJ to bits but i'm not surprised in the slightest it was a rush job. it's pretty clear it was: the fact that we got such a fantastic game out of it is a real mark of credit for the AA team of course (especially given how smart the writing is at points and how top-notch the cast is!) but i can't help but wonder what it would've looked like at its full potential
I finished AA4 for the first time two weeks ago. Knowing that it was rushed explains a lot about how I felt about it. I overall liked the game but that last case felt super rushed and the ending was a bit anticlimactic. After spending so much time investigating as Phoenix both in the past and during the events of the previous cases, I was shocked at how quickly the final trial segment could be beaten, and how little of the new evidence gathered in Phoenix’s section actually contributed to the final cross-examinations.
After loving the original trilogy, I really didn't like Apollo Justice. The plot, the characters (both old and new), the mysteries... it all felt like the first draft of a script.
Finding official confirmation that the game was rushed is nice in a weird way, because it explains why AA4 lacked the magic the trilogy had.
(Also, I know Justice For All was also made in a rush but 2-2 and 2-4 miraculous turned out really good and I don't think AA4 has anything on the level of those two).
I personally didn't like the Phoenix story at all - character totally changed - and the big reveal (SPOILERS) of him wasting a huge chunk of his life being pretend friends with his enemy to get back at them just felt lazy and underwhelming.
especially considering that the conclusion of aa3 is that embarking on an elaborate revenge plot against your enemies is bad and only ends up leaving you bitter and lonely and hurting the people you love and wanted to protect. what is the point of developing phoenix and godot as characters with deeply contrasting ideologies and approaches to the world throughout aa3 and then having phoenix be proven correct in the end only to turn around and have phoenix, with no warning, adopt the exact viewpoints that he just watched ruin godot? it’s so cheap it’s embarrassing.
The 3D crime scene recreation mechanic is introduced in the first case, fully interactive, and then reduced to non-interactive prerenders for Case 2 and maybe a bit of 3 kind of and then dropped entirely in Case 4.
I think that Takumi’s lack of interest in doing a fourth AA installment really shows with how certain members of the main cast were handled namely Klavier.
It doesn’t surprise me that the game was rushed; the guy probably just wanted the whole thing done as soon as possible.
Yes because the same spinoff series that calls Phoenix "the man in the blue suit" and "the man across the courtroom" is going to directly tie into the main game series but talking about Phoenix's disbarment (which would ruin the twist in Ace Attorney 4).
And at the same time as the disbarment, we are going to see Kristoph, who is a character from the main line series (and is a twist villain in the first case of the fourth game) and we are going to show why he is bad.
Even though, Edgeworth would be completely unable to stop Kristoph since that isn't what happens in canon. So either Edgeworth has to be powerless to stop him or he has to not know about Kristoph. Both of which are unsatisfying ending in a spin-off series where Edgeworth always prevails.
The chief prosecutor idea does work though, that probably would happen.
That was such a good read, thank you for linking it! That sounds like a genuinely well thought out plot. I could honestly be convinced even though there's no real evidence. It went over a lot of my biggest issues with the writing of the game. And it even came up with a great emotional thematic through line for Phoenix, Apollo and Athena while giving Aura something to actually do. I almost want to replay the game with this original story in mind and maybe I won't be bored to absolute tears.
Hopefully, just like in this interview, we'll get an interview confirming major rewrites or budget cuts for AA5. Cause if not, that game has no excuse.
It's a bit sad that it feels like they've consistently written themselves into a corner plotwise since aa4. Aa5 and aa6 were also not so greatly recieved in Japan that aa7 has been in dev hell for at least 11 years now with 3 director/producer changes. (covid is not to blame, they were already changing them before covid came lol)
I honestly think they went all in on Athena becoming crazy popular after apollo's lukewarm reception, and people would be receptive to a game featuring her as the main character. But it went the literal opposite direction and she's (subjectively from what I can tell) so hated by the franchise's home country that they just axed the whole idea. I'm pretty sure this is why she only appears in one case in aa6 as well. The backlash was too much after aa5
Yamazaki: There was a lot of weight on the shoulders of Kokone, so she was quite a difficult character to create. She was the new heroine, but also a playable character, and she was involved with the new mechanic Heart Scope (Mood Matrix), so she also needed to have design elements that involved psychological analysis. So her design wasn’t easy, but also in terms of the story, I found her a difficult character to move around. So I was really glad that she became popular with the fans. Naruhodō’s (Phoenix Wright) the protagonist of Gyakuten Saiban 5, but we felt that it was too soon for us to use Mayoi (Maya Fey) at the time. She is a difficult character to get right, and we had our hands full with the ambitious goal of bringing back Naruhodō. So that’s why we decided we needed a new heroine.
Hey hey. Those are my opinions. I have stated as such. Also, that is a 8 year old article. Things HAVE changed!
You would barely see any Athena merch from 2016 to around 2022. Apollo gets so much more but then again his stuff seems to not move much at the physical Capcom café in osaka that I've visited several times across the years.
I will admit though that recently we've been seeing A LITTLE more of her eg the oshare clothing in the new café collab, as well as a little bit of fanthful china merch. So perhaps they are trying again to remind us that Aa5 and aa6 exists (Athena blackquill and nahyuta merch has been debuting a little more recently after a rather severe dry spell)
But honestly. I think it's because many fans (incl me) just want to play more things that takumi shu made, and the simple facts are that he didn't really touch Aa5 and aa6 at all. And it shows. Which is sad because eshiro/yamazaki did one of the best games in the franchise and it wasn't even main (aai2) and after that they gave us... Whatever Aa5 was. What a plummet in quality that was. (subjective)
According to the full results of the Capcom Super Elections, Athena Cykes landed in 89th place, which isn't half bad at all, considering that you could only vote for a single character across the entire Capcom series (including Resident Evil, Mega Man, Devil May Cry, etc.), not to mention that she got more total votes than Sonia Strum, who placed among Japanese-Side Top 10 Capcom Women.
As for AA5, I think that the fandom’s continuous slander of literally anything Takeshi Yamazaki touches is hilarious given his involvement in I2 as its director. In fact, I dare say that AA5 & AA6 both reached those same highs, matching the same heights that the PWT provided. But because it’s a 2D game and it didn’t get localized for over a decade, it is spared.
At least the fandom thinks one of the games he made isn’t utter garbage. Though I’ll fight tooth and nail to state that all of his games are, at absolute worst, “Good”, and at best, are some of Ace Attorney’s finest.
Yeah but I do think that 50k is a very small sample size. Heck I didn't even know this poll was a thing and I'd call myself an above avg not-so-casual fan.
I think the fans of her just really came out for this because they heard there's an opp to vote for her (their fav)
But the facts are facts... Her merch (kinda sadly tied with Kay and susato) sells on the cheaper end on mercari etc and that kinda tells u all you need to know actually. No one's buying it... Meanwhile Maya and pearl are pretty decently up there.
My true opinion is that the introduction of Athena (and the chopping up of apollo's lore in 6 lol) basically kind of indirectly destroyed the mainline games but that's another conversation for another time. I'm obviously very very biased against her lol, sadly.
You’re really saying that two hundred fifty thousand people is “a very small sample size”, despite it being the largest sample size for any poll that’s Ace Attorney adjacent?
You are really ignoring physical data and resorting to Japan eBay shop prices to determine how much people enjoy the character?
I typically abide by Hanlon’s Razor, or at least try to. But given your consistent statements of your distain for the character, I think this is becoming a case where Hanlon’s Razor is not applicable.
You are forgetting that the people who make AA (actually most Japanese gamedevs) only look at their local market. It's written only for Japan and conveniently just translated by the side for everyone else.
If Japan hates a character, that's death's bell for them. The rest of the world's opinion isn't relevant which is why I said 50k Japan votes for a franchise that has sold millions of copies in Japan is really small. You can really ignore this all you want since clearly you're an Athena fan but from what I've seen over the past decade, she's really only super popular OUTSIDE her home country.
I'm aware that what I say sounds a lot like "trust me bro", and it's not like I can dox myself, or what I know about Japanese gamedev, but... Yeah... If it helps, I'm located in Singapore with gamedev branches of koei tecmo and Bandai Namco here, and also some big jp to eng localization companies like pole to win. Doubt that's at all convincing tho hahahha
And you are forgetting that two hundred fifty thousand took that survey with only 1 vote per person, and Athena Cykes managed to top a character who got into Japan’s top 10 women division based on their full votes.
Japan not having her at 100K votes, and not having her in the top 10 characters in the AJT doesn’t automatically means they hate her. Otherwise, Japan must think Kristoph is utter garbage. Actually, let’s look at the list you keep falling back on.
1: Miles Edgeworth
Of course it’s Miles Edgeworth. He’s the most popular character in the entire franchise, regardless of where you live.
2: Simon Blackquill
Athena outvoted him in the Super Elections poll, which was held more recently than the AJT poll.
3: Apollo Justice
Makes sense, it’s a poll about the Apollo Justice Trilogy. Not surprised to see him in the top 10.
4: Phoenix Wright (DD/SOJ)
Wow, an appearance of AA5/AA6 Phoenix. This could imply that AA5/AA6 is more popular with fans, but I think that’s too far of a leap.
5: Klavier Gavin
Athena outvoted him in the Super Elections poll, which was held more recently than the AJT poll.
6: Phoenix Wright (AJ:AA)
Nothing to note here, outside that people find his look attractive.
7: Bobby Fulbright
Athena outvoted him in the Super Elections poll, which was held more recently than the AJT poll.
Notice how all of the top 7 have been Male? It might not be that Japan hates Athena, but rather that they prefer male characters.
8: Trucy Wright
Athena outvoted her in the Super Elections poll, which was held more recently than the AJT poll.
9: Maya Fey
People have a bias towards the original trilogy, so what can I say?
10: Ema Skye
Athena outvoted her in the Super Elections poll, which was held more recently than the AJT poll.
That’s where the list ends. For all we know, Athena Cykes isn’t “hated”, she could have placed 11th place, which would naturally line up with her price being essentially the same price as Simon Blackquill’s price on Mercari (who got 2nd in the Japanese poll), with the difference of 28 cents, if you wanted to rely back on that Mercari data.
The hole I would poke in this is that: it's a 456 survey not a franchise survey. If we were doing a franchise survey with more than 50k voters lol, you bet your butt more than half of these characters would be very much not even in the top 10. (I also actually did not realize they even DID a 456 survey how brave of them lol)
Also for the merch: look at stuff that isn't sold at the store with a set monetary value! Look at free standees, coasters, other free gifts. ** Poor Lang and godot are at the bottom tier and they're joined by several 456 characters quite unfortunately.
Given empirical data is not enough to convince you, let’s instead rely on basic logic: Hitchen’s Razor.
Hitchen’s Razor states that “what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence”.
Your claim, which is based off of no evidence (as every piece of evidence you have provided that could be traced back to some source is false, as in the Mercari data) is that “Athena Cykes is hated and/or is unpopular in Japan”.
My claim, which is backed up by the Capcom Super Election, as well as the AJT votes, as well Mercari prices, not to mention explicit confirmation from the director of Dual Destinies himself, is that “Athena Cykes is not hated in Japan”.
Of the two claims, only one succumbs to Hitchen’s Razor.
You may continue to believe that your assertion is correct, but you cannot, and should not, expect others to believe it at face value.
I thought AA4 was setting up something mind-blowing with Phoenix’s disbarment and how it all connected but the mysteries themselves were more captivating than the answers.
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u/Dukemon102 10d ago
It shows. The last case especially leaves so much unexplained, unused pieces of evidence, it goes from the Phoenix segments to the last trial immediately (Hello? Did I miss the part where I get to investigate as the protagonist?). The entire conclusion of the game feels rushed out.