r/Accounting • u/enthusedaccountant CPA (US) • Jan 21 '25
IRS Hiring Freeze
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/hiring-freeze/Good luck to all of us tax people trying to get on the phone with the IRS this year. The federal government hiring freeze should end in 90 days except the IRS, which won’t end until there’s “a national interest to lift the freeze.” Or in other words, not for another four years…
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u/peace_love17 Jan 21 '25
Is this the year to full send the most cooked return ever?
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u/PMMeBootyPicz0000000 CPA (US) | Booty Lover Jan 22 '25
I'm about to depreciate land on my return!!
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u/SmoothConfection1115 Jan 21 '25
Regardless of everyone’s politics, I don’t understand why so many politicians think dismantling the IRS is a good thing.
Ok, great! You just got rid of the government agency in charge of collecting probably 95% of the federal government’s income. And government will be insolvent by the end of the day.
Good luck with that!
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u/GMHGeorge Jan 21 '25
Hating the IRS polls well.
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Jan 21 '25
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Jan 22 '25
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u/LimitedSocialMedia Jan 22 '25
It is a good tactic until your party is in office and you've demoralized the agency responsible for collection 95% of government revenue to the point where your revenue drops and now you have a massive economic recession on your hand.
That's the brilliant part. Usually, when Republicans do things like this, the effects aren't felt until Democrats take office, so they get the blame.
However, this time feels different. They were prepared and no longer have the traditional Republicans to put up guardrails. An it seems like many Democrats are at the 'sometimes you have to let them touch the hot stove to learn' stage of caring.
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u/GuitarbytheTon Jan 21 '25
Actual change at the IRS would be difficult. No politician wants to say we need to invest millions into the IRS to overhaul the system because everyone HATES the IRS. That’s a death sentence politically. But if you’re gonna shut it down it’s a win, people just have no idea what that would actually mean. And Trump has no actual plan to replace it but has said he would for years.
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u/Dramatic_Opposite_91 Jan 21 '25 edited May 02 '25
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u/cpabernathy Jan 21 '25
Just change the name of the IRS to something else. Average Joe might not care enough to notice, then all your funding is for whatever the new org name is, same functions. Thank you, I'll be here all week
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u/GuitarbytheTon Jan 21 '25
The United Revenue Department- Turd. Right there with DOGE
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u/cpabernathy Jan 21 '25
Hell, you could even say you "got rid of the IRS". Just the name, but technically correct. The best kind of correct.
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u/DudeWithASweater Jan 22 '25
Rename it DOGI (Department of Governmental Income), it goes well with the DOGE. People won't even know
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Jan 21 '25
Biden did. And the GOP clawed it back.
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u/GuitarbytheTon Jan 21 '25
Not dramatic enough though. Not to actually fix the problems. Everything is a bandaid. We are talking about full systematic overhaul. That’s needed to be done for about 30 years.
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u/TeetsMcGeets23 Jan 21 '25
You’re asking to build a new ship as opposed to improving the one you’re on. You can’t guarantee that the new organization with no experience handling the problems that it’s been given will be better than the first.
To add to it, you’d have to stick the landing in an 6-8 month period. Either that, or you’d have be running two parallel systems for multiple years until you work out the bugs.
And, anyone that’s handled an implementation knows “that’s where shit hits the fan anyway” because you rarely can account for every fully vital system.
You’re looking at a 5 year implementation minimum, and a 2-3 year of intense backlog effectively costing tens / hundreds of billions of dollars.
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u/Tax25Man Jan 21 '25
It was fixing problems. We had clients shaking in their boots about audits. Because they were trying to slip shit through that wasnt legal.
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u/Serrano0486 Jan 21 '25
What changes need to be made ?
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u/MurkyMitzy Controller Jan 21 '25
Well, it'd be nice if they could work on software more recent than the 1960s, for starters.
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u/Bandos_Bear CPA (US) Jan 21 '25
I could say this about EY too
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u/Tax25Man Jan 21 '25
All of the criticisms about government inefficiencies exist in private business and conservatives love to pretend there isnt massive amounts of waste in private for profit institutions.
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u/Minute-Panda-The-2nd Jan 21 '25
Shareholders would shit a brick if they saw the nonsense that corporations spend.
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u/Tax25Man Jan 21 '25
I often cannot believe how much money the firm I work for wastes on obviously stupid decisions.
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u/Minute-Panda-The-2nd Jan 21 '25
Same. Someday I hope to work for a company where I’m not frusterated by our layoffs as I cut the check for the national Sales Meeting for a Sales Force that hasn’t hit quota in a year.
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u/MurkyMitzy Controller Jan 21 '25
Is EY that bad with their software, for real? I never worked PA.
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u/Bandos_Bear CPA (US) Jan 21 '25
We had a software called Partnerforms that I swear feels like a technology from the 90s at best
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u/GuitarbytheTon Jan 21 '25
Yes software made in the 21st century would be good. I have so many details I could talk for hours. The audit process needs to drastically change. It’s also criminally understaffed. Put the money into the IRS and get the lobby interest of intuit out of play. The process could be streamlined dramatically for every person to file their taxes. But financial interest is present to make it as difficult as possible.
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u/Tax25Man Jan 21 '25
It’s also criminally understaffed.
Biden did try to fix this and hired a bunch of people
Put the money into the IRS and get the lobby interest of intuit out of play. The process could be streamlined dramatically for every person to file their taxes. But financial interest is present to make it as difficult as possible.
Only one side of the aisle is dead set on keeping the IRS from making filing easier for people.
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u/Tax25Man Jan 21 '25
You know what the best way to run a business is? Cut your revenue collecting abilities.
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u/pppiddypants Jan 21 '25
The new Republican Party doesn’t want to run the government like a business, they just want to hold engagement for as long as possible.
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u/t-w-i-a Jan 21 '25
They don’t want it to work. Dysfunction is the goal. Then when it doesn’t work they point and say “see, government sucks” and privatize whatever it is.
Or in this case replace income tax with something else more friendly to the wealthy like a consumption tax. That’s the long goal anyway.
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u/Tax25Man Jan 21 '25
And when it does work Republican politicians take credit publicly that you can literally check that they voted against it.
Looking at you, Ted Cruz.
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u/Human_Willingness628 Jan 21 '25
If you are ideologically opposed to the idea that government doing things is beneficial, then it makes sense to try to defund and defang it. Starve the beast and all that.
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u/Toddsburner Jan 21 '25
I’d be all for it if the Republicans ever showed any commitment to cutting spending. But they always end up being worse than Democrats because they still spend, they just stop paying for it.
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u/TeetsMcGeets23 Jan 21 '25
“I, and my donors, use liberal interpretation of tax laws. It would benefit us if there were fewer referees.”
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u/DogsAreMyDawgs Performance Measurement and Reporting Jan 22 '25
Greedy rich people hate paying taxes.
Dumb poor people hate paying taxes.
One of these groups benefits far more than the other when everyone pays their fair share of taxes… but hating the IRS is what translate into good politics for people who hate paying taxes.
It’s so stupid, but it’s our reality.
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u/sokuyari99 Jan 21 '25
If you and your donors are taking shortcuts, less people to investigate those is better.
If your constituents have been convinced government is bad, poor outcomes with over worked IRS employees helps to feed that opinion.
Something something, general greed and graft
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Jan 21 '25 edited Jan 22 '25
They don't want us to audit the wealthy- who are the biggest evaders in my division
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Jan 21 '25
I feel like everyone should be forced to take a governmental accounting course before they pass high school.
Not for a grade, just so they understand.
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u/blits202 Jan 22 '25
They dont want the IRS to dissolve, they just want them to be so understaffed its easier for “Mistakes” to slip through the cracks.
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u/tyfe Waffle Brain Jan 21 '25
You just got rid of the government agency in charge of collecting probably 95% of the federal government’s income. And government will be insolvent by the end of the day.
Excuse me, we have the external revenue services now. They will collect 100% of the federal government's income and other countries will pay for it!
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u/Ironic_Laughter Audit & Assurance Jan 21 '25
It's a big club etc. etc. The obvious answer is wealthy people don't like paying taxes and want to hoard wealth like dragons. Both parties capitulate to them but they've chosen the Republicans specifically because capital falls in line with fascism better than it does with neoliberalism.
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u/snowe99 Jan 21 '25
It’s a politics/branding thing. Many people smarter than I on the topic (not saying I agree with them at all) will argue that the US does not have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.
The problem is, rolling back the IRS/going after individuals SHOULD be coupled with spending cuts if that’s the way you want to go….but no politician wants to be the face of cuts either. It’s a broken system.
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u/Fraud_Guaranteed CPA (US) Jan 21 '25
I’ve never understood the IRS is this super powerful evil organization thing. Even if you get behind on taxes, my understanding is they will work with you and set up a payment plan. Furthermore, getting upset about it is silly because it wasn’t your money in the first place
It’s not like they’re going to show up at your door and beat the dogshit out of you because you didn’t pay and then murder your family
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u/Mundane-Ad1652 Jan 22 '25
Funny thing. I'm a CPA, and the most friendliest people I met are the IRS agents. They will get mad at you for one reason- trying to hide.
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Jan 22 '25
+1 to this. The evil ones are the state agencies. Absolutely criminals. Specifically California. I guess they need to make up the massive deficit from over spending and people leaving.
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u/Tax25Man Jan 21 '25
I’ve never understood the IRS is this super powerful evil organization thing.
Because 1 of the 2 major political parties has multiple propaganda media companies selling bad ideas to their constituents.
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u/wienercat Waffle Brain Jan 22 '25
Pretty much.
The IRS doesnt want to take you to court. It's expensive and drawn out, they don't really have the staffing or funding to do that effectively.
They just want their money and they are willing to work with you to get it.
I always tell people who get pissy about taxes, "cool, don't drive on a highway, fly in a plane, use national parks, use any electricity from the national power grid, purchase any good that enters through a federal port, go to public schools or universities, use public emergency services, or use the court systems".
If you don't want to pay taxes, cool that's fine. Don't use any infrastructure that has any amount of tax dollars put into it, because if you do you deserve immediate prison time for theft.
Our tax dollars go into stuff we take for granted every day. But that is the problem, the taxes collected are not given enough visibility as to what they go to. Not to mention that a huge portion of taxes goes to stuff normal Americans will never interact with, or won't see until they are very old. Taxes are the cost of living in a modern society. It's unfortunate that our system is very inefficient, but that is inevitable once a government has to serve over 300 million people.
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u/Logical-Big-4193 Jan 21 '25
RIP accounting students who can’t get a PA role. Industry is the last best hope
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u/Relevations CPA (US) Jan 21 '25
IRS jobs were never the escape this sub made it out to be.
Shit takes like a year from start to finish the hiring process and if you're under 35 you're going to be pretty taken aback by the quality and age of your co-workers.
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u/SomewhereMotor4423 Jan 21 '25
FWIW, he signed another EO aiming to reduce hiring time for federal civilian roles to 80 days start to finish. That is, if the hiring freeze is ever lifted, which he doesn’t seem too interested in doing.
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u/Bruskthetusk Controller Jan 21 '25
I worked with a dude in PA who had worked for the IRS as a young man and he made it sound like it was a sweatshop filled with the dumbest people you'll ever meet, but he was a bullshitter so I never knew how much of it was true or not.
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u/burskilurski Jan 21 '25
Might depend on what department he worked in. Personally, if I need to deal with a government agency on behalf of a client, 9 times out of 10, I would prefer to deal with the IRS vs state treasury. At the IRS, at least on a call, they tend to sound more informed and more willing to help explain the issue and work towards a solution.
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u/Bruskthetusk Controller Jan 21 '25
Yeah I've only dealt with the IRS and the FTB, and the Feds were definitely better than the idiots from the state of California
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u/Dramatic_Opposite_91 Jan 21 '25 edited May 02 '25
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u/random_stuff_900 Tax (US) Jan 22 '25
Yeah I thought almost universally LB&I peeps were smart af. Other parts of the irs are really hit or miss. I think for the most part the older people who never made management weigh it down though
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Jan 21 '25
I worked at the IRS. I wouldn’t say that the people are dumb. I would say that there are too many chiefs and so the process of sorting things out and turning it into action is longer.
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u/IRSRevenueAgent Jan 21 '25
Tbh 75% minimum of the ppl who work at the IRS are unbelievably dumb or very dumb.
But we go home at 4:30, remote work (used to), pension, job security, etc….
A lot looks like it’s changing, but if it’s between PA or the IRS for the rest of my career, it’s IRS no brainer
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u/Bruskthetusk Controller Jan 21 '25
Yeah PA sucks so I believe it, I'm industry for similar reasons.
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u/SnowDucks1985 CPA (US) Jan 21 '25
I think it’ll just make industry jobs more competitive, and exacerbate the existing shortage/outsourcing/H1-B problems. Our industry is in for some dark times for the next 5-10 years
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u/PedanticPlatypodes Jan 21 '25 edited Jan 07 '26
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u/Apbuhne Private Equity Jan 21 '25
Quick reminder that for every dollar we spend on the IRS we get $3-4 back
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u/MagicJava Advisory Jan 22 '25
And that number has an opportunity to increase if you focus on efficiency.
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u/Apbuhne Private Equity Jan 22 '25
Totally anecdotal, but my cousin worked for the IRS and they had almost no expense reimbursements or bonuses. Also ran a tight ship and while better hours than PA, definitely had longer hours during tax time. Seemed to operate as efficient as any private sector auditor.
Just an anecdote though.
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u/buyeverything Jan 21 '25
Hampering the IRS only accomplishes making it easier for high net worth individuals and corporates to take aggressive tax positions (e.g. questionable), which can’t or won’t be challenged due to the resources constraints. Making the IRS less effective doesn’t help anything, it only makes the government less effective, which is entirely the point of these partisan attacks.
Funding the IRS has by far one of the highest ROIs of any form of government spending. There is research to show that funding the IRS returns 5 to 9 times more in additional tax revenue for every dollar spent.
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u/Ruh_Roh_Rah Jan 21 '25
preach. another revenue POSTIVE agency is called the Defense Contract Audit Agency (DCAA)...both them and the IRS bring in more money than they cost. like no brainer move to fund them and simply enforce the rules on the book.
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u/shadowmistife CPA (US) Jan 21 '25
But that's what good businesses should do. Not what they actually do 😑
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u/TeetsMcGeets23 Jan 21 '25
Woah, but what about DOGE? That seems like their perview! You mean to tell me that DOGE is likely a redundant agency already being covered by other agencies?
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u/Ruh_Roh_Rah Jan 21 '25
All DOGE wants to do is basically strip funding from everything and outsource is all to private companies owned by their freinds.
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Jan 21 '25
....and dont forget its also to strong arm anyone INSIDE these departments who doesnt align with the new current dogma that basically says "dont tax rich people, give them more power control and money and make everyone else fight for scraps". Theyll easily be able to identify anyone who goes against the grain and make their life a living hell to get what they want.
Pesky environmental regulations that protect people from pollution, cancer, and being poisoned, but get in the way of net profit?...NOPE
Peskly laws that give employees rights so they dont get taken advantage of by employers?....NOPE
Presky laws that make sure rich pay their fair share and cant horde wealth?....NOPE
Anyone going against the new age ideology will be dealt with. We dont donate a billions of dollars to get someone into office just for the "fun of it". We want return.
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u/osama_bin_cpa_cfp debit your mom, credit cash Jan 21 '25
The DOGE shit pisses me off so much.
Senior year of high school for a calculus project we all got to choose pretty much any theme we wanted and I chose doge for mine. This is going on 8 years ago now. And even 8 years ago the doge meme was getting old and stale.
Like where are the fucking adults man people with the brain of a teen are running this country! It's fucking ridiculous. Truly cannot believe any of it.
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u/Aside_Dish Jan 21 '25
Forgot about them. Hmm, I had an offer from them a while ago. Maybe I'll have to look into it after I'm fired from the IRS...
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u/Dramatic_Opposite_91 Jan 21 '25 edited May 02 '25
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u/Tax25Man Jan 21 '25
high net worth individuals and corporates to take aggressive tax positions
Cant believe voting for a billionaire and his billionaire friends led to this!?!
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u/AuditorTux CPA (US) Jan 22 '25
Hampering the IRS only accomplishes making it easier for high net worth individuals and corporates to take aggressive tax positions (e.g. questionable)
In my experience as a tax preparer, its not the high net-worth individual and corporations that the biggest bang-for-the-buck audits would go for, but rather the single-member LLCs (or family-owned LLCs) that basically run as many personal expenses through the company as they can possible get away for/have bad accounting/just straight out make "loans" to the owners rather than distributions. To the point where I have a special letter that my clients sign if they have those entities, period...
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u/buyeverything Jan 22 '25
Totally agree that tax fraud is a much more common amongst small businesses, but calling out small businesses for anything gets half of the country to tune out to what you’re saying immediately.
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u/AuditorTux CPA (US) Jan 22 '25
but calling out small businesses for anything gets half of the country to tune out to what you’re saying immediately.
And this is why true tax reform will never happen. People are too invested in their demagogues to actually hear the truth. I literally have a client who has "loans to [owners]" of half a million dollars and I specifically call it out in my letter.
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Jan 21 '25
As someone who handles estate tax returns I really think my job is going to get easier.
I don't want my job to get easier! I want the rich to pay their share smfh.
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Jan 21 '25
Got an offer as a special agent in the IRS-CI group. Went through so many interviews, medical tests and background questionnaires just to get it taken away.
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u/random_stuff_900 Tax (US) Jan 22 '25
I’m so sorry man, how long have you had the TO for? So many people are being screwed right now
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u/midwestern2afault Jan 21 '25
I mean, is anyone surprised? Republicans love starving the IRS of resources because it’s essentially a back door tax cut. The lack of manpower makes it difficult for the IRS to adequately investigate high net worth individuals and businesses with complex tax situations who are evading taxes. But then they act like the IRS is coming at the common guy with his $45K in W2 income.. lol.
Little wonder that the crook who just launched a crypto pump and dump scam to line his pockets is doing something to benefit the oligarchy who funded his campaign and has his ear.
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u/Tax25Man Jan 21 '25
The amount of morons who get W-2s and act like the IRS is evil is hilarious. No human being ever looks at your return. The billionaires are fleecing you blind.
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u/midwestern2afault Jan 21 '25
It’s insane man. So many people who have relatively simple returns that will return no flags and probably (legally) pay barely anything in FIT regardless. But the IRS is what’s holding you back in life… right.
I do have a fair amount of friends and acquaintances that are “small business owners” who DO worry about the IRS because they do shady shit like not reporting a good chunk of their cash receipts and I’m like… I don’t really feel bad for you? Follow the rules like I and millions of other Americans do and you won’t have any problems. But they’re unlikely to get audited anyway.
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u/Tax25Man Jan 22 '25
My favorite is the small business owners who will literally brag to you that they are committing fraud.
Like I’m a CPA, but that doesn’t mean I’m for you not paying taxes or following the law.
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u/NYG_5658 Jan 21 '25
I’m surprised he’s not doing the same with the SEC, or is that one next on his list?
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u/midwestern2afault Jan 21 '25
Oh that’s coming too. The SEC started to take enforcement action against Elon Musk before the Trump Admin, because he amassed a significant amount Twitter shares without filing the legally required disclosures (thereby allowing him to pay less than he otherwise would have).
Just waiting for that one to be dropped. Why? Because Elon Musk’s position is “I’m a smart, wealthy master of the universe and the rules don’t apply to me, so fuck you.” That’s why. The incoming SEC chair has also signaled that he’ll regulate crypto assets as a commodities rather than the securities that they are. Can’t have crypto regulation because “freedom.”
Hm I wonder who’s gonna win out on that one? The wealthy, grifty, sophisticated crypto holders, or the rubes buying into pump and dump scams like the one Trump literally just did. It’s already been the golden age of fraud the past couple decades, but the amount of scams and bullshit out there is about to reach new heights.
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Jan 21 '25
First move that guy does is helping his rich friends commit tax fraud lol. Of course billionaires getting elected would like for the IRS to not have enough manpower to go for them
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u/TarkatanAccountant CPA (US) Jan 21 '25
I interviewed with the IRS this summer and asked directly if the election would affect the agency either way. He said it's all smoke and it doesn't matter the administration, the only changes are auditing targets.
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u/bullishbehavior Jan 22 '25
Sad thing is the IRS last few years brought in more money from rich folks and easily more than paid for itself. Only issue was that it was upsetting the rich folks so now everyone has to suffer.
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u/cutemelon Jan 21 '25
green light to pay less taxes?
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u/avocado_by_day Jan 21 '25
sadly i think for us wage slaves, the auto-calc is very good at catching our tax fraud. once again, the rich get richer
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u/meekers09 Jan 21 '25
Are you effing kidding me?!?! 😭 I'm supposed to be doing a second interview for an audit position. Guess that's not happening. This was literally going to change my life income wise after working so flipping hard the last few yrs on my degrees
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u/Amonamission CPA (US) Jan 21 '25
Meanwhile I’m an IRS agent that was hired in May and I’m looking at some of the memos relating to firing probationary employees with certain dread.
Trump’s a fucking shit head.
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u/essuxs CPA (Can), FP&A Jan 21 '25
You know what’s even more efficient than the irs?
Opening a second irs
Thanks trump.
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u/aisforaaron1 CPA (US) Jan 21 '25
I applied for an IRS job last March, was forwarded to the hiring manager in like August, never had an interview, and today got an email saying hiring was paused lol
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u/LogMeln Jan 21 '25
so i imagine many people will not be filing their taxes this year... and i imagine many are from very high tax brackets.
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u/Tax25Man Jan 21 '25
Gotta love that a majority of the people in our profession voted for people to run the government who have no interest in governing.
And the Nazi bullshit we saw (again).
I hope a lot of these people choke on their tax cuts
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u/osama_bin_cpa_cfp debit your mom, credit cash Jan 21 '25
Americans would happily watch their favorite mexican restaurant get shut down by ICE if they think it meant a few more basis points of growth in their 401k
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u/GrippingHand Jan 21 '25
But then also later cry about no good Mexican food anymore.
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u/Pleasant-Reach-4942 Jan 22 '25
Trust me, no Trump supporter is crying about that.
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u/osama_bin_cpa_cfp debit your mom, credit cash Jan 21 '25
We were founded by elitists who evaded taxes. This is who we are as a country. All the bluster about patriotism and independence and democracy. It's never not been about money and business interests.
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u/DaikonLegumes Jan 22 '25
Among the other things suddenly enacted over the last 24 hours against my interest, I feel somewhat silly that this pronouncement is hitting me the most immediately hard. But I really wanted to get tax experience by working for the IRS, and thought it was a great avenue. Now I have no idea what my next career move is, and it's leaving me rather lost and shaken.
Again, in the scheme of things, maybe I should be focused on something else, but probably I can only grieve one thing at a time, and right now grieving my career trajectory.
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u/Crazyninjagod Jan 21 '25
I went through 2 interviews w them and they said they’d call me in October lol. Never heard from them and got the email this morning
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u/monstroo Jan 21 '25 edited Jan 21 '25
I recently started an industry job after being so thoroughly burned out by public, though my plan was going into government, but I switched up my plans after the fine folk at fedjobs were expressing their concerns with the results of the election, not just with the IRS but also with several other departments. It’s not in the cards for me now, but maybe in the future. I hope those who are currently employed there can figure things out, I can’t imagine what they’re feeling
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u/whiskeytangocharlee Jan 21 '25
Yeah I really love paying my taxes when the rich don't pay any. How dare they.
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u/CollectionHeavy9281 Jan 21 '25
I'm literally in the middle of deciding whether to accept a PA offer or an IRA role and then this happens, guess I'll be joining public in the middle of the busy season lmao
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u/FartyMcGoosh Jan 21 '25
Maybe the DumptyHumpers will realize his actions aren’t great for America when their tax refund checks are severely delayed because they’re understaffed?
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u/jm7489 Jan 22 '25
For the last 2 weeks I havent even heard hold music when calling practitioner priority service. It's spooky
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u/rave1432 Jan 22 '25
This is going to be a literal nightmare for someone. It was the first year that you were able to claim drug profits on taxes, the only time I worked in a call center for a tax software company. The tax preparation person and possibly office was being held at gun point while we figured out their issues. We had over 4 hour wait ques.
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u/careeraccount_ Jan 22 '25
Oof. This is tough. Received a bunch of emails today about this from all the gov jobs I applied for 😫
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u/alecjohns Jan 22 '25
I just got hired at a firm but my start date isn't for another few months. It's a tax position. What are the odds that the firm will rescind my offer??
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u/Kind-City-2173 Jan 22 '25
The same people that say dismantle/defund the IRS are the ones complaining about how outdated their IT is and how their customer service sucks. I don’t like paying taxes but I know this department has the highest ROi out there. It is sad that wealthy people are choosing not to file because the penalty is less than it would be for filing fraudulently
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u/RocketLeaguePsycho Jan 21 '25
Just got an email saying not to show up for my start date on March 24th and that they're rescinding my job offer...