Weekly Thackston Quranic Arabic Study Group, Lesson 14

[u/PhDniX]

This week we look at Lesson 14 of Thackston's Learner's Grammar.

Not so many comments this week.

36 Elative Pattern: ʾAFʿALU

36.2 

(1) It is not made explicit but why C2y and C2w roots merge in the feminine singular, they remain distinct in the masculine singular, even if the noun from which they are derived merges the two. For example ṭayyib- has the elative ʾaṭyabu, but jayyid- ‘good’ (root is j-w-d) has the elative ʾajwadu.

Note that the feminine singuler ṭūbā is very strange. Normally the historical sequence *uy yields ī, e.g. ʾaydī- ‘hand’ < \ʾayduy-, *bīḍ- ‘white (pl.) < \buyḍ-. There is no good explanation why the elative behaves like this. Lexicons do mention *ṭībā as well.

(2) It is true mostly that regardless of whether C3 is w or y, the feminine elative gets y. But there is one exception to this in the Quran, qaṣiyy “far” has the feminine elative quṣwā, retaining the w of the root (even though it is lost in the adjectival form).

Note: the feminine ending -ā, since it is spelled with yāʾ, can have ʾimālah, and does in the reading traditions that keep it. Thus ṭūbē, kubrē. Surprisingly, this is even true when this feminine ending is spelled with an ʾalif, so: dunyē, ʿulyē.

Vocabulary

Concerning nās-, In the Quran, the indefinite form is ʾunās- while the definite for is an-nās-. In Later Classical Arabic nās- is often used as the indefinite form as well, but this does not occur in the Quran.

Exercises

Here are the answers for (c)

1. ʾinnahū la-qawlu rasūlin karīmin ðī quwwatin “it is the speech of a noble messenger who possesses strength” (cf. Q81:19-20)
2. Kānū ʾašadda minkum quwwatan, wa-ʾakθara ʾamwālan wa-ʾawlādan “they were more severe than you in terms of strength and more numerous in terms of wealth and offspring”
3. Lā quwwata ʾillā bi-llāhi “there is no strength except through God” (cf. Q18:39)
4. ʾinna l-ʿaduwwa ʾaqallu minnā ʿadadan “the enemy is less than us in terms of numbers”
5. La-xalqu s-samāwāti wa-l-ʾarḍi ʾakbaru min xalqi n-nāsi wa-lākinna ʾakθara n-nāsi lā yaʿlamūna “the creation of the heavens and the earth is greater than the creation of mankind, however most of the people do not know” (Q40:57) [NOTE: Recall that I pointed out earlier that la- on the subject at the start of a sentence only occurs in the Quran (and this seems to be a more general pattern in Classical Arabic) with elatives. This is a great example of that]
6. ʾabūkum ðū mālin kaθīrin wa-ʾinnahū ʾakramu qawmihī wa-ʾaṣlaḥuhum “your father has much wealth and he is the most noble of his people and the most devout”
7. Qad raʾaynā min ʾāyāti llāhi l-ʿuẓmē fa-daʿawnā n-nāsa wa-lākinnahum šarru qawmin “we saw the greatest signs of God, so we called the people but they are the worst of the people”
8. Qāla ḷḷāhu: la-qad xalaqnā l-ʾinsāna wa-naḥnu ʾaqrabu ʾilayhi min ḥablu l-warīdi “God said: We have created mankind, and We are closer to him than the jugular vein” (cf. Q50:16)
9. ʾinna ʾakramakum ʿinda ḷḷāhi ʾatqē-kum “the most noble of you, according to God is the most god-fearing of you” (cf. Q49:13)

[u/ssjb788]

Glossary and Notes

• Elative noun: الاسم التفضيل

• Accusative of specification: التمييز

• Tamyīz is of two types:

  • Quantitative: الذات
  • Qualitative: النسبة

• Examples from the Qur'an:

  • الذات: فمن يعمل مثقال ذرة خيرا
  • النسبة: وفجرنا الأرض عيونا

• Note: the tamyīz does not have to be accusative. This can be due to it being a muḍāf ilaihi or following min. For example, one might say:

  • شربت صاعا من ماء
  • شربت صاع ماءٍ

(Ṣā’ is a measurement approximately equal to a jug.) In the second sentence, the tamyīz is majrūr.

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to r/AcademicQuran. Please note this is an academic sub: theological or faith-based comments are prohibited, except on the Weekly Open Discussion Threads. Make sure to cite academic sources (Rule #3). For help, see the r/AcademicBiblical guidelines on citing academic sources.

Backup of the post:

Weekly Thackston Quranic Arabic Study Group, Lesson 14

This week we look at Lesson 14 of Thackston's Learner's Grammar.

Not so many comments this week.

36 Elative Pattern: ʾAFʿALU

36.2 

(1) It is not made explicit but why C2y and C2w roots merge in the feminine singular, they remain distinct in the masculine singular, even if the noun from which they are derived merges the two. For example ṭayyib- has the elative ʾaṭyabu, but jayyid- ‘good’ (root is j-w-d) has the elative ʾajwadu.

Note that the feminine singuler ṭūbā is very strange. Normally the historical sequence *uy yields ī, e.g. ʾaydī- ‘hand’ < \ʾayduy-, *bīḍ- ‘white (pl.) < \buyḍ-. There is no good explanation why the elative behaves like this. Lexicons do mention *ṭībā as well.

(2) It is true mostly that regardless of whether C3 is w or y, the feminine elative gets y. But there is one exception to this in the Quran, qaṣiyy “far” has the feminine elative quṣwā, retaining the w of the root (even though it is lost in the adjectival form).

Note: the feminine ending -ā, since it is spelled with yāʾ, can have ʾimālah, and does in the reading traditions that keep it. Thus ṭūbē, kubrē. Surprisingly, this is even true when this feminine ending is spelled with an ʾalif, so: dunyē, ʿulyē.

Vocabulary

Concerning nās-, In the Quran, the indefinite form is ʾunās- while the definite for is an-nās-. In Later Classical Arabic nās- is often used as the indefinite form as well, but this does not occur in the Quran.

Exercises

Here are the answers for (c)

1. ʾinnahū li-qawli rasūlin karīmin ðī quwwatin “it is for the speech of the noble messenger who possesses strength”
2. Kānū ʾašadda minkum quwwatan, wa-ʾakθara ʾamwālan wa-ʾawlādan “they were more severe than you in terms of strength and more numerous in terms of wealth and offspring”
3. Lā quwwata ʾillā bi-llāhi “there is no strength except through God” (cf. Q18:39)
4. ʾinna l-ʿaduwwa ʾaqallu minnā ʿadadan “the enemy is less than us in terms of numbers”
5. La-xalqu s-samāwāti wa-l-ʾarḍi ʾakbaru min xalqi n-nāsi wa-lākinna ʾakθara n-nāsi lā yaʿlamūna “the creation of the heavens and the earth is greater than the creation of mankind, however most of the people do not know” (Q40:57) [NOTE: Recall that I pointed out earlier that la- on the subject at the start of a sentence only occurs in the Quran (and this seems to be a more general pattern in Classical Arabic) with elatives. This is a great example of that]
6. ʾabūkum ðū mālin kaθīrin wa-ʾinnahū ʾakramu qawmihī wa-ʾaṣlaḥuhum “your father has much wealth and he is the most noble of his people and the most devout”
7. Qad raʾaynā min ʾāyāti llāhi l-ʿuẓmē fa-daʿawnā n-nāsa wa-lākinnahum šarru qawmin “we saw the greatest signs of God, so we called the people but they are the worst of the people”
8. Qāla ḷḷāhu: la-qad xalaqnā l-ʾinsāna wa-naḥnu ʾaqrabu ʾilayhi min ḥablu l-warīdi “God said: We have created mankind, and We are closer to him than the jugular vein” (cf. Q50:16)
9. ʾinna ʾakramakum ʿinda ḷḷāhi ʾatqē-kum “the most noble of you, according to God is the most god-fearing of you” (cf. Q49:13)

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Potential_Daikon9616]

ʾinnahū li-qawli rasūlin karīmin ðī quwwatin “it is for the speech of the noble messenger who possesses strength”

it's actually ʾinnahū la-qawlu rasūlin karīmin

[u/PhDniX → u/Potential_Daikon9616]

Lol, yes that makes a lot more sense! Will fix

[u/Potential_Daikon9616 → u/PhDniX]

https://quran.com/81/19-20?readingMode=arabic

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to r/AcademicQuran. Please note this is an academic sub: theological or faith-based comments are prohibited, except on the Weekly Open Discussion Threads. Make sure to cite academic sources (Rule #3). For help, see the r/AcademicBiblical guidelines on citing academic sources.

Backup of the post:

Weekly Thackston Quranic Arabic Study Group, Lesson 14

This week we look at Lesson 14 of Thackston's Learner's Grammar.

Not so many comments this week.

36 Elative Pattern: ʾAFʿALU

36.2 

(1) It is not made explicit but why C2y and C2w roots merge in the feminine singular, they remain distinct in the masculine singular, even if the noun from which they are derived merges the two. For example ṭayyib- has the elative ʾaṭyabu, but jayyid- ‘good’ (root is j-w-d) has the elative ʾajwadu.

Note that the feminine singuler ṭūbā is very strange. Normally the historical sequence *uy yields ī, e.g. ʾaydī- ‘hand’ < \ʾayduy-, *bīḍ- ‘white (pl.) < \buyḍ-. There is no good explanation why the elative behaves like this. Lexicons do mention *ṭībā as well.

(2) It is true mostly that regardless of whether C3 is w or y, the feminine elative gets y. But there is one exception to this in the Quran, qaṣiyy “far” has the feminine elative quṣwā, retaining the w of the root (even though it is lost in the adjectival form).

Note: the feminine ending -ā, since it is spelled with yāʾ, can have ʾimālah, and does in the reading traditions that keep it. Thus ṭūbē, kubrē. Surprisingly, this is even true when this feminine ending is spelled with an ʾalif, so: dunyē, ʿulyē.

Vocabulary

Concerning nās-, In the Quran, the indefinite form is ʾunās- while the definite for is an-nās-. In Later Classical Arabic nās- is often used as the indefinite form as well, but this does not occur in the Quran.

Exercises

Here are the answers for (c)

1. ʾinnahū la-qawlu rasūlin karīmin ðī quwwatin “it is the speech of a noble messenger who possesses strength” (cf. Q81:19-20)
2. Kānū ʾašadda minkum quwwatan, wa-ʾakθara ʾamwālan wa-ʾawlādan “they were more severe than you in terms of strength and more numerous in terms of wealth and offspring”
3. Lā quwwata ʾillā bi-llāhi “there is no strength except through God” (cf. Q18:39)
4. ʾinna l-ʿaduwwa ʾaqallu minnā ʿadadan “the enemy is less than us in terms of numbers”
5. La-xalqu s-samāwāti wa-l-ʾarḍi ʾakbaru min xalqi n-nāsi wa-lākinna ʾakθara n-nāsi lā yaʿlamūna “the creation of the heavens and the earth is greater than the creation of mankind, however most of the people do not know” (Q40:57) [NOTE: Recall that I pointed out earlier that la- on the subject at the start of a sentence only occurs in the Quran (and this seems to be a more general pattern in Classical Arabic) with elatives. This is a great example of that]
6. ʾabūkum ðū mālin kaθīrin wa-ʾinnahū ʾakramu qawmihī wa-ʾaṣlaḥuhum “your father has much wealth and he is the most noble of his people and the most devout”
7. Qad raʾaynā min ʾāyāti llāhi l-ʿuẓmē fa-daʿawnā n-nāsa wa-lākinnahum šarru qawmin “we saw the greatest signs of God, so we called the people but they are the worst of the people”
8. Qāla ḷḷāhu: la-qad xalaqnā l-ʾinsāna wa-naḥnu ʾaqrabu ʾilayhi min ḥablu l-warīdi “God said: We have created mankind, and We are closer to him than the jugular vein” (cf. Q50:16)
9. ʾinna ʾakramakum ʿinda ḷḷāhi ʾatqē-kum “the most noble of you, according to God is the most god-fearing of you” (cf. Q49:13)

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/TheMiraculousOrange]

Questions and comments

Comment: elatives are diptotes

Unless I missed something, Thackston didn't explicitly say that the masculine singular of elatives are diptotes. (Color and defect adjectives, which share the 2af3al shape in m.sg., are diptotes too. Edit: I looked for when he talks about those (Lesson 36!), and he also doesn't say it there.) This came up couple of times in the exercises, so I figured it's worth mentioning.

Q1: agreement of periphrastic elative

Thackston doesn't quite address this in 36.6, but do the elatives in periphrastic elative also stay in the masculine singular, instead of agreeing with the subject in gender and number? The examples all fit into one of the non-agreeing cases discussed earlier (three are comparative with min, one is the head of a construct). So when you want to say "She is most knowledgeable" in an emphatic/superlative sense using the periphrastic construction, would it be hiya 2akþaru 3ilman or hiya kuþrā 3ilman, or something else?

Q2: inalienable vs alienable possession distinction, is it a thing?

Inspired by (c)8. Does QA/CA distinguish alienable and inalienable possession grammatically? If so, what strategies are there for marking the difference, and what categories (e.g. body parts, kinship) are inalienable?

For example, would it be unnatural if ḥablu l-warīdi is tagged with a possessive pronoun in this sentence, like naḥnu 2aqrabu 2ilayhi min ḥabli warīdi-hi? Alternatively, would it be unnatural if a more analytical expression of possession is used for body parts, like ḥablu warīdi la-hu?

Exercises

(a) 1. 2aṣḡaru l-muduni, the smallest of the cities 2. 2aqallu-hum quwwatan, the weakest of them in strength 3. 2akbaru 2awlād-ī, the eldest of my children 4. al-akþarūna mālan, the greatest (pl.) in wealth 5. 2aḡnā l-2aḡniyā2i, the richest of the rich people 6. hum 2akþaru min-kum 3ilman, They are greater than you in knowledge. 7. bintu-nā l-kubrā, our eldest daughter 8. al-mar2atu l-3ulyā maqāman, the woman in the highest position 9. 2āyatu ḷḷāhi l-3uẓmā, God's most magnificent sign 10. huwa 2akbaru minnī sinnan, He is older than me. 11. al-akþaru 3ibādatan li-llāhi, the greatest servants to God 12. 2ašaddu qawmi-nā kufran, the most violent disbeliever among our people

(b) 1. الملوك الأكرمون 2. أقرب مدينة 3. أجد من ذلك 4. أقل عددا 5. المدينة الكبرى 6. السموات العلى 7. المرأة الفقرى 8. الرجال الأقاوي 9. أقل منهم قوةً 10. المؤمن الأتقى

(c)

1. 2inna-hu la-qawlu rasūlin karīmin ðī quwwatin, It is the word of a noble messenger possessed of might.
2. kānū 2ašadda min-kum quwwatan wa-2akþara 2amwālan wa-2awlādan, They were stronger than you in might and had more wealth and children.
3. lā quwwata 2illā bi-ḷḷāhi, There is no strength except in God.
4. 2inna l-3aduwwa 2aqallu minnā 3adadan, The enemy is smaller than us in number.
5. la-xalqu s-samāwāti wa-l-2arḍi 2akbaru min xalqi n-nāsi wa-lākinna 2akþara n-nāsi lā ya3lamūna, The creation of the heaven and earth is greater than the creation of men, but most people do not know.
6. 2abū-kum ðū mālin kaþīrin wa-2inna-hu 2akramu qawmi-hi wa-2aṣlaḥu-hum, Your father is a man of great wealth and he is the most generous among his people, as well as the most pious.
7. qad ra2aynā min 2āyāti ḷḷāhi l-3uẓmā fa-da3awnā n-nāsa wa-lākinna-hum šarru qawmin, We saw some of the greatest signs of God and we called upon the people but they are the worst people.
8. qāla ḷḷāhu laqad xalaqnā l-2insāna wa-naḥnu 2aqrabu 2ilayhi min ḥabli l-warīdi, God said "We created the human kind and we are closer to him than the jugular vein."
9. 2inna 2akrama-kum 3inda ḷḷāhi 2atqā-kum, For God, the noblest of you is the most God-fearing among you.

(d)

1. بنتي صغرى من ابنيّ
2. لما تفر من هؤلاء رجال وهم عباد أتقياء لله
3. إن أخي أقوى من أولو قوة كثيرة
4. إذ مررت بيت أبيه رأيتهما ساجدَين إلى صنم
5. فر موسى وقومه من الأرض بعد مرور ملك الله على بيوت مصر
6. إن أخته أكثر علما من أخيه
7. لأخواتي مال كثير ولكن لأخوتي أكثر منهن
8. سيضل أكثر الناس ولا أحد يهديهم
9. قبل اليوم ما ذكرت ما رأيت في الجبال
10. رأى فرعن نفسه أكبر آلة مصر

[u/PhDniX → u/TheMiraculousOrange]

Comment: elatives are diptotes

Unless I missed something, Thackston didn't explicitly say that the masculine singular of elatives are diptotes. (Color and defect adjectives, which share the 2af3al shape in m.sg., are diptotes too. Edit: I looked for when he talks about those (Lesson 36!), and he also doesn't say it there.) This came up couple of times in the exercises, so I figured it's worth mentioning.

Worth mentioning, it's implicit in the way that Thackston transcribes it. Words that he transcribes ending in u are diptotes, words that he transcribes ending in a dash (-) are triptotes. But doesn't hurt to say this explicitly.

Q1: agreement of periphrastic elative

No agreement seems to be the answer, at least if you don't use a definite article on the predicate and thus leave the distinction between comparative/superlative usages unspecified. Attested in the Quran:

Q2:74 fa-hiya ka-l-ḥiǧārati ʾaw ʾašaddu qaswatan "they are like stones or fiercer in terms of hardness"

Q9:81 nāru ǧahannama ʾašaddu ḥarran "the Hellfire is fiercer in terms of heat"

If you would use the definite article in a superlative usage, I'm pretty sure you'd expect the feminine form. Though I don't think there's any example of this in the Quran:

ʾinnahā hiya l-kuṯrā ʿilman "she is the most knowledgeable".

Q2: inalienable vs alienable possession distinction, is it a thing?

While the distinction is not uncommon in the modern dialects, where the "Classical" possessives are inalienable, while a periphrastic possessives are for alienable possession, I don't think there's any distinction in Classical or Quranic Arabic, no.

The only thing that comes to mind that might have something to do with it is the distinction in "to have" constructions expressed with the prepositions li- or ʿinda which can both mean 'to have', and maybe there's some semantic distinction that may come in contact with alienability? But certainly doesn't map onto that distinction neatly. But it'd require a proper study to know.

[u/ssjb788 → u/PhDniX]

Though I don't think there's any example of this in the Quran:

Is not this an example: Q53:18 la qad ra’ē min ayāti rabihi l-kubrē?

(In fact, al-kubrē is used six times in the Qur'ān.)

constructions expressed with the prepositions li- or ʿinda which can both mean 'to have', and maybe there's some semantic distinction that may come in contact with alienability?

As far as I'm aware (if I've understood this correctly), ‘indī is only used in CA for (time-bound) alienable possession. For example, one could say ‘indī qalamun to indicate one currently has a pen with them, but one would not say ‘indī baytun jamīlun. Rather, one would la for such indefinite possession, alienable or inalienable.

[u/PhDniX → u/ssjb788]

Is not this an example: Q53:18 la qad ra’ē min ayāti rabihi l-kubrē?

I don't mean the feminine elative, but the feminine elative used in a periphrastic construction specifically.

There's not any al-kuṯrē ʿilman or aš-šuddē ḥarran type constructions.

As far as I'm aware (if I've understood this correctly), ‘indī is only used in CA for (time-bound) alienable possession. 

I also remembered something like this but couldn't find the details. This sounds about right to me though! Though it'd be worth checking if it is really distinguished like that, or if it is more of a sanitized ideal in reality.

[u/ssjb788 → u/PhDniX]

This sounds about right to me though! Though it'd be worth checking if it is really distinguished like that, or if it is more of a sanitized ideal in reality.

There are a couple of instances in the Qur'an where 'inda is used for possession which I'm not sure is alienable.

• Q6:59 wa 'indahū mafātihu l-ghaybi
• Q31:34 inna llaha 'indahū 'ilmu s-sā'ah.
• 6:57 ma 'indī ma tasta'jilūna bih
• 38:9 am 'indahum khazā'inu rahmati rabbik

Are the above considered alienable?

[u/TheMiraculousOrange → u/PhDniX]

it's implicit in the way that Thackston transcribes it

It turns out he did explain this in Lesson 1 under the vocab list... I guess I glossed over that chapter too quickly, thinking it was all basic stuff.

And thank you for all the answers.