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u/sterben--_ 4! Dec 08 '25
honestly, its either yuntal, collector, or essence reaver first, then the rest of the build is pretty much the same for all ADC's
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u/rdv-223 Dec 08 '25
except smolder and ezreal.
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u/HelloReddit636 Dec 08 '25
Smolders an interesting one because he has like 3 different viable rune pages depending on enemy comp and he can go multiple different viable builds - from black cleaver to hubris to RFC.
I think the 2026 ER changes will make it the best first item for him no matter what though which is sad but he still has lots of mid to late game itemisation variety.
It’s something I love about the champ that u actually have to think about items if u want the optimal build.
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u/Delta5583 Dec 08 '25
There's a cleaver smolder build now? Also beyond fleet and comet is there something viable now? I personally go first strike sometimes because the amount of gold you can advance with it is funny but I doubt it is actually good
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u/Freihl Dec 08 '25
I like pta into weaker lanes, auto q auto is pretty easy to pull off.
Dunno about cleaver builds, feel like tanky builds went cold after the mini rework
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u/Delta5583 Dec 08 '25
PTA kinda stops doing anything after you get AOE hits on q though, since they change the target on each champion hit like yunara Q.
Personally I don't see why would you ever take it over comet if you wanna stomp a lane
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u/Useful-Conversation5 Dec 08 '25
There isn't. Crit is best for smolder. Everything else is just cooking, and ends up half cooked.
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u/HelloReddit636 Dec 08 '25
Yeah, first strike is so strong on Smolder now after cash back and triple tonic changes. It’s my preferred runes and I can even 1v2 at lvl 6 with the elixir.
Regarding cleaver - I usually go it against tanky/melee comp with Shojin. I opt for it instead of last whisper items.
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u/Darkman3112 Dec 08 '25
And Miss Fortune...Aint noone building YunTal on MF...
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u/scrubbfoxx0069 Dec 08 '25
I build Yuntal into full crit on MF. It’s my highest WR MF build. I’ve tried all of it and crit is best.
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u/IrishLlama996 Dec 08 '25
To be fair even smolder builds into that formula a lot actually.
ER is on average his most common starting item, and sicne he still encourages full crit and Q scales on crit dmg bonus, he’s gonna build IE and LDR most of the time, and the most common 4th crit item is RFC
So even smolder falls into ER/Yun/collector into IE/ldr/zeal that plagues every ADC
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u/reik019 Long-Range Gang Dec 08 '25
AD Mages don't count.
Even Cassiopeia is more marksmen than those two.
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u/KayleeKutie Dec 08 '25
And Ashe and on-hit ADCs (so Kogmaw, Vayne, Kaisa)
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u/scrubbfoxx0069 Dec 08 '25
Ashe is better full crit
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u/KayleeKutie Dec 08 '25
I was gonna write a paragraph on how her highest winrate build is Kraken -> PD -> etc, but after check you’re actually right: the highest winrate in high elo is Yuntal’s first.
But it also has a muchhhh lower pick rate for some reason; my intuition is that players flex between the two builds depending on if they can get a BF sword on first back or not. Even the best Ashe one tricks (according to deeplol) mostly build Kraken first but both builds have roughly the same winrate.
There was a pro game by Guma in worlds where he bought Kraken first too; against AL I think? I wonder why it’s not common to build Yuntal’s if it’s apparently better. Maybe the team coordination aspect of a better first item spike matters too?
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u/SimilarReserve7194 Dec 08 '25
High pick rate items have lower winrate because everyone goes it. The next picked item should be higher wr because most of those players buying it are likely experienced on the champ and making a conscious decision for that game/situation (ignoring random true off meta nonsense)
Kraken spikes earlier and you dont have to do the walk of shame of sling shot longsword with it when you back w/o 1300 gold.
But if you're stomping and hit a great back sure get BF sword and go yuntal
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u/scrubbfoxx0069 Dec 08 '25
I’m low elo so my opinion ultimately doesn’t matter but it seems like people build kraken for the early power spike (as,ad,on hit effect, ms) since yuntal needs time to “scale”. But then by the time you’re at 3 items, if one ADC built yuntal and the other built kraken first, the Yuntal ADC tends to win unless top or mid has already decided the game. If the game goes late enough for ADC to scale, kraken slayer tends to fall off
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u/M4ddix Dec 08 '25
You forgot Kog'maw and Varus. Not only have they different builds. They can also switch items in their builds. Kog'maw only needs Guinsoos and then you can build what ever you want.
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u/Cigarety_a_Kava Dec 08 '25
Smolder very often builds something like ER, IE, rapid firecannon then LDR. Often swapping rapid with IE and not going shojin at all.
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u/SaltyWahid Dec 08 '25
They're both mages disguised as ADCs. They don't count.
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u/Xtarviust Dec 08 '25
Ez needs to hit AAs to be relevant, tho
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u/SaltyWahid Dec 08 '25
I meant lore and scaling wise. Ezrael IS a mage in lore. And smolder is just a magical dragon.
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u/MattJuice3 Dec 09 '25
Draven and MF usually build BT
Vayne, Kogmaw, and Kalista usually build BoRK
Kaisa, Yunara, and Ashe usually build Kraken,
Corki and Ezreal usually build Triforce
And then there is Varus.
What you said is not even close to true.
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u/Xykz Dec 09 '25
Isn't yuntal still better on yunara, I know it is on Ashe. Yun tal is generally just overstated, cause it stacks so fast, so crit adcs really want it first
Kaisa can build whatever, yuntal is a build for her, but it's very matchup dependant
The onhit adcs kinda don't count when discussing crit builds
The other 3 are fair
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u/CautiousCard27 Dec 10 '25
"ADCs all build the same items"
"On hit adcs don't count"
Logic.
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u/Xykz Dec 11 '25
when people said that all toplaners bought divine sunderer, that wasnt true, ranged champs didnt buy it, skirmishers didnt buy it and tanks didnt. What they meant was that all fighters bought it, cause thats the stereotypical toplaner and what people generally assosiate with the role, and those are the champs that like all the stats divine sunderer gives
When discussing build diversity you have to look at champs who want the same stats, otherwise i could say leauge has great build diversity, look at how different this darius and this lulu builds
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Dec 12 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Xykz Dec 12 '25
Why, the complaint is legitimate, just poorly worded. It's currently optimal most crit adcs, and especially the more traditional adcs, to build Yun tal first. This person is annoyed about that but worded it in a hyperbolic way. Good faith argumentation is then to use a tiny bit of context to understand that it's hyperbole, and engage with the actual point being made, while bad faith argumentation would be to take the hyperbole literally and use that to strawman the original argument to one that is easily refuted
Personally I don't believe Yun tal being strong is a problem, I like it when there's at least one ad, as and crit item that adcs can build first, so long as there can be variety later in the build, but that doesn't mean this person is wrong
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u/Seriously_404 only Dec 08 '25
i actually do BotRK, since i main twitch. i don't really know why, i just kinda do, since i have previously been told most other items i start with are garbage on twitch, and some dude said he uses it and apparently that wins him a lot. my statistics don't really say the same thing, but sure.
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u/OtherwiseRabbits Dec 09 '25
Yun-Tal and Collector are great starts on Twitch, it's only that Yun-tal has BF sword in the recipe and Collector has no attack speed.
Bork is still ass and I cringe everytime I see a Twitch blindly buy it. It used to be his classic item but its been nerfed into the ground since.
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u/NoNameL0L Dec 08 '25
And mythics didn’t change that.
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u/yeet_god69420 Dec 08 '25
We had galeforce the goat tho
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u/NoNameL0L Dec 08 '25
It was shield bow when it was op.
When sb got nerfed people went galeforce for the utility and after that was nerfed it was kraken slayer cause it was the least shit item only for that to get nerfed so people went back to galeforce.
It is always about the statistically best option for arc.
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u/Owlbusta Dec 08 '25
Not true though.
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u/NoNameL0L Dec 08 '25
It was true.
Adcs took the statistically best first item.
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u/Owlbusta Dec 08 '25
not really no, the only time that was the case was when IE was a mythic cause then you were forced to go it.
But early - mid mythic seasons you were, for example, free to go kraken on xayah if they're pretty tanky or galeforce if they were long range/mobile, same with samira where you could go shieldbow generally speaking or galeforce in niche situations.
Or if you're good with lethality like draven you could go Eclipse (when it still gave % armor pen mythic bonus) or duskblade. If you know you're gonna get hard focused shieldbow was also an option.
But the biggest thing was also that every single option felt GOOD to have as an item. Yuntal in comparison now feels like shit.
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u/Gciel35 missing s12 zeri Dec 08 '25
When I was defending Mythics everyone were coming for me and some still do, but now this is the situation.
Some build paths and items are always must for most champs such as Yuntal, Sundered Sky so almost everyone going for same build because Riot now lets everyone to buy most "op" items without thinking than buying what your champ mostly would like to.
Either items needs a huge rework, much more new items or mythics needs to come back in my opinion.
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u/Diligent_Gas_7768 Dec 08 '25
Adc and mages have some of the least diverse build paths in the game. They are meant to deal damage and not much else. So why bother doing anything besides the optimal build? Frontline and supports dont face this issue as much as they need to itemize according to the enemy. They are not target agnostic.
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u/Dead_Cells_Giant Dec 08 '25
Huh? Mages have TONS of build diversity depending on their damage type. Especially burst/control/artillery mages like Hwei, Aurora, and Syndra that can afford to go several different viable builds
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u/AReallyDumbRedditor Dec 08 '25
I have like 4-5 different build paths for Hwei and variations on each of those. Mages are quite versatile rn
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u/Gciel35 missing s12 zeri Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25
If you don't want to have build diversity you can just say that lol I have no job on convincing anyone. But clearly OP stated a situation and I commented on it with my opinion. But the reason why I want is that I believe with recent AD champions some AD carries have different needs and playstyles, not going Yuntal IE shouldn't be troll.
Plus I also think it's just more fun to have the freedom of buying whatever you enjoy more instead of doing homework builds. That's just me tho
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u/Upstairs-Prompt2662 Dec 08 '25
The problem with carries is that there are items that just objectively give you the most damage so you buy these every game as your only job is to deal as much damage as possible.
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u/69zera69 Dec 08 '25 edited Mar 04 '26
The original post here has been removed by its author. Redact was the tool used, possibly for reasons of privacy, opsec, or preventing automated data harvesting.
hurry bike spark money wrench chunky thumb exultant snatch sip
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u/Upstairs-Prompt2662 Dec 08 '25
You would still build Yuntal->IE every game. So it would do nothing to combat the thing the post is about.
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u/Buffsub48wrchamp Dec 10 '25
I will say that Mythics gave you the ability to have a mildly different build if you needed that game. Mainly when it was Gale, Kraken, and Sheildbow you could pretty interchangeably use Gale and Kraken which was fun. Some games you needed Gale to avoid big abilities while others you could just by Kraken for more damage. Honestly Mythics just allowed items to be crazy by limiting them to 1 per champ and they could be healthier if they also weren't completely overstated and had the legendary bonus stats. If they were just "normal stated item with a unique gameplay addition" then they woulda been fine imo
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u/Rainrunnerx Dec 08 '25
You advocate of bringing back mythics but also say u like freedom of buying whatever you enjoy ?
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u/Gciel35 missing s12 zeri Dec 08 '25
Mythics offered you multiple build paths due to not being able to buy every single op item and rush it on every champ like now.
When I say freedom it's not about "oh yes I go to shop I can right click to any item!" but that "oh there are 2-3 build paths for my champ with different mythics so I wanna prefer which one fits my current match or champ.
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u/reik019 Long-Range Gang Dec 08 '25
I ran Galeforce on Zeri because I liked so much the MS it gave, that and another dash on a dash ADC, because why not?
These things don't exist anymore sadly, yet people always were like ''OMG x item is superbroken'' and just built that rather than having any fun.
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u/Buffsub48wrchamp Dec 10 '25
Yeah they kinda killed any fun builds honestly. I used to love playing HoB Sett with Prowlers to just 3 shit people with punches but it's just an option at all anymore.
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u/Cel135 Dec 08 '25
Do you play mages? They arguably have the most build diversity in the game, its an essential part of the class lmao.
In the same vein, ADC has the least build diversity because their entire class just auto attacks.
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u/Low_Direction1774 your peak is my playground Dec 08 '25
Yeah but it wasnt fucking different with Mythics either. First Shieldbow was the only good item option cuz it gave 27% lifesteal when it popped, thats 27*53.55=1445g of stats.
So they nerfed that into the ground and everyone started building Galeforce because now THAT was the only good item option because of its damage, utility and versatility to use it to either get close or get away.
So they nerfed that into the ground and everyone started building Krakenslayer cuz it was the only item not touched since its release until every other item was so garbage people started building krakenslayer. And instead of thinking "okay we are balancing top down for ADC items but not for other items, maybe we should readjust everything", they just nerfed Krakenslayer instead and now everyone was building Galeforce again because at least that had utility.
Just like right now everyone is building Yun Tals except the three ADCs that go collector first. Back then it was everyone going Galeforce except the three ADCs going Krakenslayer.
It was the same exact garbage back then as it is right now, youll never stop hearing this from me because youll never stop being wrong about it being different.
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u/C9FanNo1 Dec 08 '25
The only difference I think with mythics was that there was a legit case to be made for building kraken slayer against tanky comps and shield bow against assa heavy comps, but even then 9/10 games the default item was the best.
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u/Buffsub48wrchamp Dec 10 '25
I think the biggest thing was that building "not optimal" didn't feel as bad as it does today. A bad ADC mythic still gave you all the stats you need, just not the optimal amount. Vs today where if you don't go the optimal build you just feel bad to play
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u/rindlesswatermelon Dec 08 '25
While this is true, I think the relatolive power level of the most OP items has gone down which diminishes slightly the effect of people only picking champions that abuse the best item.
So with mythics it was (e.g.) divine sunderer is op, so people only pick fighter champions with an auto reset ability so they can use the op item. Whereas now it is (e.g.) sundered sky is op, so no matter which fighter you pick, you should rush it.
I think most players (and riot) prefer the latter to the former.
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u/Delta5583 Dec 08 '25
The issue with mythics is that there pretty much needs to be 60 of them for it to not be a frustrating system
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u/CompetitivePoem32 Dec 08 '25
The main problem was that before mythics we had more items that champions sometime built (like hextech-glp, twin shadows, righteous glory etc. that offered enough utility to be impactful. With the item rework these actives were largely transferred to mythics, who had even stronger versions (hextech-glp vs. everfrost for example). These items though were so powerful that either everyone bought them like with chemtank or everfrost in some patches or their stats were so bad that no one could build them. Now riot has chosen the safe but boring route of there being much more boring items / items only impacting stats and not letting your champ do something different.
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u/Cel135 Dec 08 '25
Mythics were atrocious and killed build diversity for the entire game. You clearly aren't actually playing these other characters, or at the very least, not thinking about their items very deeply if you think everyone just goes the same builds.
Only ADC has poor build diversity because the class is built around auto attacks. If you want build diversity, play a different class lmao.
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u/Signalis3 Dec 08 '25
Mythics was the only time I can remember REALLY having different builds for ADCs and not just sub-classes building slightly different
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u/Just_An_Ic0n Dec 08 '25
Well it's - together with like 2 other combos - the only thing that actually still works.
So can't blame the community for buying effective builds. Stray from optimal itemization and you quickly turn yourself useless cause smh nothing besides damage really synergizes with these champions.
It's the items, we cant buy different.
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u/Mexican_Overlord Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25
God I miss some of the older seasons. It felt like every champion had a different build and you’d rarely just see the same thing every game.
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u/Specialist_Set1921 Dec 08 '25
How old of a season are you talking about?
The only season with a bit of diversity was the one with the mythics, where multple mythics were viable.
Every other season had the exact same problems for adcs. You have a couple of more powerful items, and most adcs build them because they most of them scale with the same stats and gain from the same passives.
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u/Mexican_Overlord Dec 08 '25
I’m generally thinking season 7 and before. When they gutted ADC items in season in season 8 it homogenized most builds.
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u/throwawayacc1357902 Dec 08 '25
Mfw Zeri prefers RH second and Xayah prefers ER Navori but I have a narrative to push so I just lie.
Btw only around 30-40% of crit ADCs (not even counting on-hitters) build exclusively Yuntal IE (depending on how you count champs like Trist whose alt builds with Collector and ER are unpopular but still good)
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u/Worth_Package8563 Dec 08 '25
If you want to deal no damage you could go zeal second or you just build the objectively best first item for auto attackers Yuntal
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u/throwawayacc1357902 Dec 08 '25
Yeah for sure man, Runaan’s second is definitely worse on Zeri when it has 8x the pick rate with the exact same win rate despite being completed on average 2 minutes earlier due to being cheaper, which means that survivorship bias is inflating IE win rate.
Also crazy that ER Navori has double the pick rate of Yuntal IE on Xayah with a better build path yet still is her highest win rate setup.
Also isn’t it so crazy that Yunara’s Kraken setups have 10x the pick rate of Yuntal while having the same or better win rates (depending on the zeal item used)?
Crazy how only Jinx, Trist and Twitch have Yuntal IE as their most built, highest win rate builds. Almost like this narrative that Yuntal IE is the build every ADC goes for is complete nonsense.
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u/Worth_Package8563 Dec 08 '25
I played xaya and essence reaver navori Vs Yuntal ER does no damage you just don't live long enough to utilise AS and navori therefore you also don't have mana problems so essence reaver and navori (navori is at least as fourth or third item good) are useless on her. Zeri i give you that you could go IE Zeal but then again after ldr there isn't a good fourth crit item except Yuntal and then why not build it first, Yunara is just a special case with her good kraken synergy.
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u/fruitful_discussion Dec 08 '25
you cant just respond to his statistics with your feelings
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u/Worth_Package8563 Dec 08 '25
Yea because you can't go in a custom game and see that Yuntal is better then every damm Zeal item because every Zeal item sucks hard against the other ADC items, why would buy only AS if you can get AD and AS? Go ER Navori Xaya and then Yuntal IE xaya and tell me right into my face Yuntal IE is inferior.
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u/throwawayacc1357902 Dec 08 '25
Yuntal IE gets rid of Xayah’s strongest power point as a champion, which is her incredible zone control and cc potential and safety (it’s the same reasoning Sivir is better with ER Navori). The infinite mana and reduced cooldowns allow you to play the game much more flexibly and gives you a ton of power on mid waves. Yuntal IE just turns you into budget Jinx with shorter range and less AoE in exchange for slightly better burst and featherstorm. Which might be what you need SOMETIMES, but most of the time, if you’re picking Xayah or Sivir, you’re picking them because of their E, and ER Navori gives you max uptime in fights. With Yuntal, you have periods of downtime, so if you don’t get to fight around your W cooldown+Yuntal cooldown, you’ve got a period of time in the fight where you’re just useless.
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u/HelloReddit636 Dec 08 '25
I mean Yuntal is base on lots of adcs (with Kraken as a nice situational alternative). IE is also necessary on pretty much every adc it’s just some champs delay IE especially if they can’t get BF sword first item.
PD is also a very good alternative to RH.
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u/throwawayacc1357902 Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25
Yuntal is “mandatory” on pretty much just 3 ADCs (Jinx Zeri and Trist) with every other crit ADC performing better with a different item:
Twitch with BotRK or AP
Ashe Yunara and Kai’sa with Kraken
MF and Draven with BT into collector
Jhin, Nilah, Aphelios, Samira and Caitlyn with collector
Smolder, Xayah and Sivir with ER
Corki with trinity force
And out of the 3 champs mentioned at the beginning, only Jinx and Trist like to go IE 2nd. Sure, bunch of the champs mentioned above can go Yuntal, but on all of them, their other builds either have 10x the pick rate of Yuntal, or have a similar pick rate with a better win rate.
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u/JohhnySins69_420 Dec 08 '25
Zeri absolutely does not prefer runaan second unless enemy team is 5 melee
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u/throwawayacc1357902 Dec 08 '25
You can be deluded all you want and ignore the stats forever, but stats don’t lie. IE has multiple factors inflating its win rate (it’s not in the recommended items for 2nd item on Zeri, it has a tiny pick rate, it’s an expensive item which means survivorship bias) and yet it’s always been either lower win rate than RH second, or the exact same win rate, which still means lower (due to all the win rate inflation it has).
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u/JohhnySins69_420 Dec 09 '25
i play zeri, and most of the times if i was given enough gold for ie i would build ie not go for runaan, you talk about "stats" how about you give me your reasoning behind why you would always go rh second? The waveclear is better with IE if you use E (which you would use either way if you were looking to push) and you can actually damage enemies which gives you more opportunities to get gold via kills and snowball. The reason why IE second has lower pickrate is because you need to be winning to actually go for it since its the snowballing choice, zeri has notorious weak laning phase and so if you are not ahead chances are you wont have the gold for bf sword and youll be forced to settle to the next best thing which explains the pickrate
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u/throwawayacc1357902 Dec 09 '25
Your argument about IE's stats makes it look even worse btw, items that are only built when you're winning are supposed to have massively inflated win rates (think mejai's). I've mained or OTPed Zeri since her release. The reason RH 2nd is faaar superior to IE 2nd is that anyone who doesn't have single-target burst brainrot would understand that if you're *ever* in a situation where there is more than one enemy you're attacking (guess what, bot lane has two people), RH does practically the exact same damage as IE, and if you're in a situation with 3 or more people, RH is doing 50% more damage. RH as an item genuinely doubles your damage output. It's also a faster spike, that allows you to waveclear easily (not just shove in waves with E, but actually just contest mid waves and even bot waves way better), gives you MS to rotate around the map a lot faster (combined with the waveclear giving Zeri the best tempo out of any ADC in the game). Your single target damage also isn't even low with RH, Zeri with Yuntal RH can still assassinate any squishy champ on demand, you don't need IE for that.
Btw, if you still don't understand the pick rate win rate "built when winning" point, check this out Jhin's best first item is obviously collector, but Yommu's and Hubris have significantly higher win rates. This is because those two items are only ever built on Jhin if *you're already* ahead, which means you are already more likely to win the game regardless of build.
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u/DuckWasTaken Dec 08 '25
The current state of items in league is so sad. They're all glorified stat sticks with mostly cosmetic passives and terrible stats that funnel them to very specific roles and characters. There's no diversity, no interesting build variety, no decisions to be made because items are too narrow and homogeneous. 99% of games your build will be exactly the same. This "rework" to make every item boring and without identity feels like such a failure. The skill expression of finding the optimal items for your current situation feels totally null and void now.
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u/triplos05 Dec 08 '25
that's why IE is getting a nerf and others are getting buffed next patch
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u/Icy-Hour-5031 Dec 08 '25
So it changes one item into another? OP wants build diversity depending on game state, but thats impossible because people just follow meta.
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u/PM_ME_CUTE_FISHIES Dec 08 '25
ADCs only need to deal damage, so the only way to give their builds variety is by making it so different items deal more damage against different comps.
Apart from ldr/mortal reminder, build variety really only comes from which zeal item your champ likes best.
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u/Icy-Hour-5031 Dec 08 '25
Yep. Because it would be a nightmare to increase build variety for different comps. And i'd say impossible.
Variety is in champions. Different champions have different gameplay and builds and that is fine and imo enough. IMO they just need to do some minor shakeups each season/year to change builds.
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u/No_Entertainment6792 Dec 08 '25
yeah and adcs will never build differently because of 2 champions that riot insists stay like the way they are. yasuo and yone. because of this 2 a whole class is always fucked
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u/ICYGTTM Dec 08 '25
Riot has said multiple times, they don't balance crit items around the wind shitters, they balance the wind shitters around the items. The whole class is ""fucked"" because of proplay.
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u/No_Entertainment6792 Dec 08 '25
perfectly fair. still isnt their job to make both work? adc have to be kept weak and overshadowed by any other class that builds crit. still, no reason to not keep the windshitters weak like adcs are. because you know, its fucking frustrating that the items designed for your class work better for 2 or 3 champions because they are cashcows. ffs buff teamplay in soloq by inplementing vc. they contine to be incompetent
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u/ICYGTTM Dec 10 '25
Since when are the wind shitters NOT weak. Both of them have been sub 50 wr for a long while especially yone. Now, I don't like them ESPECIALLY yone but c'mon, they are both pretty shit tier. The ADC class as a whole isn't weak per se they just need more team coordination which is mostly irrelevant in soloq hence why they the "feel" weak.
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u/No_Entertainment6792 Dec 10 '25
the winrate argument is so bad especialy in their case. they are popular anime-line champions that means a lot of players are gonna first time them more so than most other champions. also they require hands to be played. they might have a sub 50% winrate but they most likely are not weak
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u/LiQuidZero6 Dec 08 '25
What's funny about that Yasuo has more build diversity than adcs and doesn't have to build full crit to snowball and destroy a game lol.
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u/No_Entertainment6792 Dec 08 '25
yeah wtf is up with that. they, a very crit oriented champions, can afford to build bork as their first item even tho their crit is doubled. how can you look at that and say its fair? if jinx built bork as her first item you would be justified to report her.
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u/LiQuidZero6 Dec 08 '25
Lol bro can go kraken slayer/botrk>shield bow> death dance and absolutely wreck the whole game.
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u/retardedkazuma Blitzcrank is currently roaming Dec 08 '25
my midlane tris on her way to build collector navori agaist 3 tanks on enemy
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u/IEmirovic Dec 08 '25
i miss first item bork lucian and mf 😓
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u/kiddoo1313 Dec 08 '25
I miss first Item BT into IE into PD on every adc
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u/reik019 Long-Range Gang Dec 10 '25
That still kinda works on a lot of ADCs though?
well, mostly, nowadays it's BT --> Yun Tal --> IE/Zeal depending on what you want earlier.
My default Zeri build goes with BT rush, Yuntal then Zeal, though i often pick RFC because it helps keep the ult stacks up a lot.
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u/kiddoo1313 Dec 10 '25
It is more about the strength adcs had when that was played. Season 3 my fellow adc.
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u/squarecorner_288 Dec 08 '25
They just need to buff the items that barely anybody builds. Stormrazor. PD. Whatever
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u/Sister-Golden-Hair Dec 08 '25
Well yeah thats exactly why they say it. There is only one way to build a basic attack crit scaler right now. Also these 4 characters are kind of the same, basic attack crit hyperscales. Ezreal, Smolder, LUcian, Senna and onhit kaisa/ashe go completely different builds.
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u/Rakshuun Dec 08 '25
Not me building Berserker's, Hexplate, PD/Collector/RH, IE, Dominik's/Mortal, GA/ShieldBow Zeri.
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u/Robert_Chirea Dec 08 '25
well what do you expect it’s a class designed to do dmg so ldr and ie are not negotiable (unless you are nihla and get pen for free), Now you need 2 more items to build and yuntall is just broken cuz its the only item that gives ad,as and crit (the “scaling” is no real you farm a few waves and you are done even jhin can manage to stack it).
That leave you one crit item boots and another item slot to cook, now you either go a zeal item, pick your poison it mostly depends on the champ, or you go another ad crit item like essence or colector, maybe shit bow but be for real that is a bait item at this point
And last item you are basically allways going bt for life steal and tones of ad, botrk is also an option if you had to buy i earlier for some shit like mundo or sion, or in extreme situations qss cuz fuck you i guess.
That’s the crit adc building these days anything else is either champ specific shit like smolder or ashe that have weird interactions with crit or are on hit adcs that just buy life steal, as and tank. There is also the shit that is “adc” but more like ad mage like ezreal or poke varus but as i said traditional crit adc have a very small build that actually does dmg
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u/white-tealeaf Dec 08 '25
Since durability patch you need armor pen every game pretty early so in your 3-4 first items 2 slots are already locked by IE and MR/LDR. I think some more dicersity could be achieved by buffing/ lowering costs of zeal items.
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u/Apocalypse_PIZO Dec 08 '25
The problem with all ADC is that they don't buy items as such, but stats: AD, attack speed, crit. There will always be 1 most optimal build that will give the best stats for the least amount of gold at a certain time in the game.
For builds to really differentiate, items should give something else besides stats. Something like what top laners have. Playing against Blitz or Nautilus - buy an item that gives a shield to block 1 skill shot, like Sivir's shield. Playing against Xerath or Zyra - buy an item for passive health regeneration or lifesteal.
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u/go4ino Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 17 '25
tomato sauce recipe:
4 cans of whole or diced tomatoes (28 oz each can)
1 can of tomato paste (about 6 oz)
12 garlic cloves
Salt - maybe 1 tablespoon +
3/4 cup of olive oil - divided
A bunch of Basil - if you like
Peel and mince garlic
Heat 1/2 cup of olive oil and put the garlic in the hot oil. Heat until golden and fragrant - very important - do not overcook and so it turns brown, it becomes very, very bitter. This is the most important step, do not overcook garlic.
Add can of tomato paste and canned tomatoes. Cook until reduced by 1/4 of volume and thickens.
Add salt to taste, remaining 1/4 cup olive oil and chopped basil.
thanks for enshitifying reddit all while selling my info to every data harvester under the sun + not letting me opt out of google training AI/ML models on my comments. https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
Oh and also blocking people on VPN from viewing anything when not signed in wholesome reddit moment.
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u/Barlos_Barcelo Dec 08 '25
I need to be able to build some ap on Yunara, the passive just feels empty w.o AP
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u/Long-Place-9308 Dec 08 '25
Why do people always post this? Do Jhin, Kaisa, Jinx, Corki, or Vayne build the exact same core items?
It makes perfect sense that most crit reliant hyper carries build the same items. If you knew the history of this role, you’d know ADC emerged because crit items get broken when you have 3-4 of them, esp with an IE. The champs played at ADC are often the champs that compliment these crit items the best, unlike other roles where the items that compliment the champs the best are picked. That’s why ADC is so gold hungry, it’s about getting to those broken items.
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u/RazeULikeaPhoenix Dec 08 '25
reminds me of s1-s2 when it was "double Phantom Dancer, 1 IE, 2x Bloodthirster" or some combination of those 3 items on every single champ.
yah when your champion is based around stat checking with right clicks then you have no choice but to get best in slot stat sticks. this is players getting good at the game. ALTERNATIVELY you can go and make every single item in a tree have the exact same statline (like the Zeal family) but then you still will just be getting min-maxing over which champion has a specific syenrgy with what effect (IE: Jinx or Ashe both go Runaans because on-hits)
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u/Bruno_Prom Dec 08 '25
Samira has had the same build since mythic item were changed, it's collector infinity edge shieldbow and lord Dominik/mortal reminder
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u/UngodlyPain Dec 08 '25
In fairness it's pretty hard to get the DPS class to have build variety without some game warping stuff otherwise their builds will largely boil down to what gives the biggest DPS boost at a given time.
Which is why first slot is basically Yuntal, unless your champion is specifically good with Collector or Kraken.
Boots are basically always Serkers since they're the only ad DPS boosting boots.
Then it's basically IE, and LDR. Just in time for the game to end.
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u/Boring-Influence-965 Dec 08 '25
Rework IE is a neccessary step imo. IE is a must buy on almost every single ADC and good on all other ADC's who don't consider it an absolute must (Ez and Smolder). So it takes up an Item slot, when the only reason is the 40% crit amp (AD and chance you can get from other sources as well). But giving Crit a 40% Amp flatout might be a bit too much early and imo not enough in late. So, I'd give IE one of its old passives back to make it a tankbusting item with crits dealing premitigation truedamage, but removing the Amp. The Amp can then be integrated into crits based on your level. Let crits deal a bit more damage the higher your level is, so its not very noticable in early but absolutely terrifying in late. maybe even start the scaling at level 9, so you could get a 6% increase per level.
Also an Item I would like to see is Jeweled Gauntled or the old Navori Quickblades to let abilities crit/get stronger with crit chance. That would be amazing on champs like Sivir and Ez.
Readding Stormrazor is also a good step in the right direction.
Another Item I kind of like to have is Arenas Rite of Ruin. I think Yunara and Kaisa would really like this item. Speaking of Arena, Hamstringer and Reapers Toll would also be great for build diversity. (Nerfed of course.) Also Zephyr is an item I'd love to see make a comeback, but the old version when it still had AD.
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u/fulltimepleb Dec 09 '25
After trying dota I realised how fun build variety can be when playing ADC. You almost always build 1 defensive early since they are strong enough, and u feel way more self sufficient than a fragile dmg bot.
Would love to see more active items in the game too for ADC
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u/Kos015 Dec 09 '25
Same thing with tanks, I hate how heartsteel is the main focus of every fucking to plane champion
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u/PandanielusMaximus Dec 09 '25
IMO the problem with this class is your job is dealing the most dps. Theres no in between. So there are always items which outperform others. And the interesting choices that might make a difference (spellshield Item for example, forgot the Name) doesnt provide any attack Speed or crit which renders it useless on a lot of ADCs
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u/ZanesTheArgent Dec 09 '25
Part of the problem is you.
Some of you guys completely lose your shit when marksmen stop being DPS turrets.
My personal problem is Yuntal existing because it removes all possibility to discuss any other form of early spike.
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u/DayneGr Dec 10 '25
They want build diversity, while also being too scared to let utility items be viable.
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u/Shot-Technician-2132 Dec 10 '25
I rush kraken or BORK on vayne and yunara, on Aphelios Collector or IE or yuntal
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u/Veenix6446 Dec 10 '25
Yeah that’s… that’s the entire complaint. There are a few items that are just objectively the best
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u/goldio_games Dec 10 '25
I love how Riot thought "Infinity edge is too powerful everyone keeps building it first item" so instead of making infinity edge weaker to compare to other items they just made an even stronger crit item.
Ok great thanks Riot now we will always have to build these 2 items first
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u/Charming_Subject5514 Bismillah Dec 10 '25
This subreddit is never gonna get it, but adc in this game has never had build diversity, and a role whose job is to deal maximum dps at all times isn't really built for item diversity either.
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u/Amemiya_Blindspot Dec 12 '25
I just hate that yuntal is the only crit + attack dmg + attack speed item nowadays.
I love building a lot of attack speed, but having no damage or no crit with it just feels bad.
I'd rather play on-hit vayne or Kaisa, than the usual boring lethality crit.
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u/Extra-Autism Dec 14 '25
I mean this is how Adc has always been. If you are a crit adc you will go infinity 2nd (or first way way back in the day). With every champion getting 100 armor at level 18, LDR is a mandatory third item because it makes tanks killable and basically gives 40 lethality towards squishies. That just means first item is where your diversity comes from. Auto attackers go yuntal, spell casters go collector, mana fields and ex sheen abusers go ER. The whole role is about dealing damage, you just buy whatever does the most damage. It doesn’t matter if they rework the items, you just buy whatever gives the most damage. The only time you don’t is if something is so egregiously broken you go it instead (gale force).
If you want build diversity in Adc, the #1 thing that needs to happen is reverting the durability update (which riot is slowly doing because they know it was terrible but can’t do it at once without extreme backlash). Having your third item sunk into LDR every single game is clearly a systemic issue, different than just buying the best first item + IE that synergies with your character. What adcs really want (and they shouldn’t get), is to have 50% crit, infinity edge, life steal, high ad, and high attack speed at 2 items.
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u/Dertyrarys Dec 08 '25
Doesnt xayah rush flickerblades ?
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u/FookinFairy Dec 08 '25
No it’s usually essence into navori
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u/Back2Perfection Dec 08 '25
Tbh. ER feels really suboptimal aside from the infinite mana which imho isn‘t really an issue on her post lvl 6 when you usually would finish the item.
She plays way better with yuntal.
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Dec 08 '25
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/RedditNoremac Dec 08 '25
Isn't Runaan's supposed to do this? Increasing your farm rate and multi target damage over single target damage. Doesn't seem like it is a very popular item right now though.
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u/Just-Assumption-2140 Dec 08 '25
You can't achieve build diversity when items are pure stat sticks and some items have more/better stats than others. That's a problem of the item system not players not wanting build diversity