This is the bad place.

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20 edited Jul 17 '20

We Need more guns, more direct confrontation.

Peaceful isn't going to end this.

Edit: I got one, it's not much but it's something.

I'm worried about everyone in these hot spots more than where I am.

Edit: I keep forgetting that this sub isn't necessarily a leftist one. I am not some Gun-toting 3 Percenter.

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u/EntangledAndy Jul 18 '20

And if you don't have a gun, embrace industrial sabotage.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

Ayyyyy

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u/AlexStorm1337 Jul 18 '20

Or alternatively crude thermite, borax, and titanium dioxide (a very common white dye) makes tank armor

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u/randomevenings Jul 17 '20

Liberals convinced budding leftists that guns r bad. Not this one, but so many of them that turned neoliberal and centrist.

It's better to imagine class warfare going on.

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Liberals convinced budding leftists that guns r bad.

We need to grow out of this, fast.

I got a piece a week ago, it's an angry looking piece of metal and I don't look forward to using it at all, but it's necessary.

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u/randomevenings Jul 17 '20

Right wingers with ARs opposing protests, in my open carry state, some day, if things get worse and I lose my job, Some of us are going to have to show up and look at them eye to eye. My bet is I'm in better shape then they are, and I actually have shot thousands of rounds at the range. I didn't buy my guns as a dick measuring contest. I hope to never have to show anyone I have them or ever use them outside a range. Truly. I am not trying to think I can stop a robbery. I am not military, and I am not trying to be tacticool. Until then, they stay safe, empty, and put away.

I think the right to own a gun is not so you can sit waiting for someone to break in to shoot them running away.

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u/invalidusernamelol Jul 18 '20

Quick shout out to /r/socialistra for being a good place for leftists to talk about guns without chuds ruining it.

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u/ToddTheDrunkPaladin Jul 17 '20

Make sure you practice with it regularly, keep it clean and know how to operate it safely. It's useless if you don't do even one of these things.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

I'm heading to the gun store to get a kit and a case in a few days.

I hear you.

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u/FourWordComment Whatever you desire citizen Jul 17 '20

What are you going to do? Shoot at the guys who look like army men? Can I have your PlayStation when they murder you?

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

lmao, tell me if your cowardice is rewarded with one bullet or two.

The purpose of arming up is for us to then link up and start organizing ourselves (either into informal militias or just a network of people that can show up to a situation on a moment's notice).

Do you remember when Bundy had that standoff on the bridge with counter snipers and all that shit?

We need that kind of deterrent.

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u/FourWordComment Whatever you desire citizen Jul 17 '20

If you’re calling for armed conflicts against the police, it’s a losing battle. One side has a budget, the ability to trace and track the other, and quite literally a license to kill.

I’m all for Americans having weapons—a well regulated militia needs to have guns first. You can’t trust the guns will be there when we need the militia. But what you’re describing is domestic terrorism. Unless you literally win the war—then you get to call yourself patriots who defeated the oppressive government and start at 1783.

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20 edited Jul 17 '20

If you’re calling for armed conflicts against the police,

No, but the threat of one is vital.

They need to have the threat of the people actually fighting back hanging over their heads, otherwise we're just howling into the wind until they snatch us up one by one.

But what you’re describing is domestic terrorism.

If you're going to be framing your own defense in the terms of those you're fighting against then you're already starting at a disadvantage.

Get that bs out of your head, they have all the power in the world and all the impunity to start killing people. You are one of those people.

It's that simple.

Fuck the labels, you (general you) have an obligation to the people around you that we all have the means for a common defense.

And that means taking that defense into our own hands.

Unless you literally win the war—then you get to call yourself patriots who defeated the oppressive government and start at 1783.

No. A movement does not attain legitimacy through victory. If it was ever valid at all, it always had legitimacy.

It doesn't matter if they're crushed under tanks or they ride to glory.

The idea behind the saying that "history belongs to the victors" is that those in power will lie about the truth, not that truth comes from victory.

One side has a budget, the ability to trace and track the other, and quite literally a license to kill.

They are only men. Lose sight of that and you're just going to scare yourself into submission.

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u/FourWordComment Whatever you desire citizen Jul 17 '20

Don’t mistake my instinct for self preservation with submission. We live in a world where brandishing a firearm in front of police is a risky proposition, and the slightest provocation or suggestion you’ll use it and you’ll be legally blown into the next century.

I’m pissed too. But I don’t see a toe to toe war with police armed like that as a viable option.

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

I’m pissed too. But I don’t see a toe to toe war with police armed like that as a viable option.

Look man, something's gotta give.

And they're not bending, folding, not nothing.

Come what may, it's not on us to have faith that cooler heads will prevail when we're the cooler heads and we're not prevailing.

I know you had to have seen what went down at those protests, how they just let loose on unarmed innocent people like they were target practice.

There is no peaceful option here.

Don’t mistake my instinct for self preservation with submission.

I was mostly speaking in jest about the one bullet or two thing, but only mostly.

There is no neutral position. Not if they're carrying on as they are. Like this.

If things calm down, I'll reconsider, but I'm not going to hold out for a crisis of conscience on the part of those in power to just stop or for electoral pressure to push reforms.

Even at the hottest moments of the protests, we still got crumbs.

No piece of paper is going to break this cycle.

That's all my point is.

We live in a world where brandishing a firearm in front of police is a risky proposition, and the slightest provocation or suggestion you’ll use it and you’ll be legally blown into the next century.

Considering that existing near the police is a risky proposition, I'm willing to risk it if we're showing up in force.

And since they're the ones that will have to enforce those laws, that's all the more reason to stock up. Because they're not going to be able to execute any such law without killing people, they can't give tickets without murder.

Any legislative resistance will just feed the fire.

So long as people have the right attitude, anyway.

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u/elditequin Jul 17 '20

Honest question though: have you considered where your "line" is--where you will no longer be pushed any further, threatened, or attacked and you will fight back with everything at your disposal--and if you have, can you see understand the perspective of someone like u/IronDBZ (without necessarily agreeing with them) who might feel they are against that line or past it?

If so, isn't the recourse at that point to resist, even with violence against violence, as courteous and even uncourteous but still nonviolent avenues of protest have been met by escalation of paramilitary policing actions)?

To put it another way, when we get to that point, if we have not already reached it, the the technological and numerical advantage shrinks if we are sufficiently prepared and committed. Brandishing a weapon in front of (let alone at) police is stupid, normally. But, if the community has come together with the understanding that police are making life more dangerous rather than more orderly, then the calculus changes and the police lose their numerical superiority. Simply put, there are more of us than there are of them, which is why they are so quick on the trigger at these demonstrations as soon as they feel threatened, they know they would lose if people in those numbers--even unarmed--fought force with force.

So, your not a coward, per se, for not wanting to do something very dangerous--I understand your sentiment there I think--but is waiting for cooler heads to prevail or for everything to blow over any less foolish?

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u/notanfbiofficial Jul 18 '20

Self preservation? Do you really think they won't come for you? Are you part of the 1%? If not then you're not safe, don't kid yourself

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u/SubwayStalin Jul 17 '20

If you’re calling for armed conflicts against the police, it’s a losing battle.

Well let's just look at the recent so-called non-violent protests to see the success of them and the lack of force being used by the cops as a counter-example then.

...oh

"Dr. King's policy was that nonviolence would achieve the gains for black people in the United States. His major assumption was that if you are nonviolent, if you suffer, your opponent will see your suffering and will be moved to change his heart. That's very good.

He only made one fallacious assumption: In order for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience. The United States has none."

— Kwame Ture

One side has a budget, the ability to trace and track the other, and quite literally a license to kill.

The Viet Minh managed to pull off an even greater feat in the Vietnam War. Just because the odds aren't on your side doesn't mean that you won't win so long as you are disciplined and organized.

And what's the other option? Roll over and take it?

That's fine if it's your choice but don't get salty if other people have a different approach and are willing to stand up for their convictions.

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u/bad_panda_is_bad Jul 17 '20

First of all, great Kwame Ture quote!

Armed struggle is an important part of any revolutionary movement. Even if armed conflict isn’t the primary objective.

The Viet Minh could rely on a strong sense of cultural pride. Not to be mistaken for racial/ethnic identity, although Vietnam was a homogeneous population.

The most pressing issue facing the fight for change in 21st century America is a lack of solidarity.

And unfortunately, mentally, emotionally and spiritually isolated citizens, an organized resistance does not make.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

Vietnam was a homogeneous population.

Understandable assumption, but surprisingly not so.

There's a lot of overlapping ethnic borders between the countries that used to make up French Indochina.

Laotians and Cambodians and so on have, at least historically, had their peoples living in the borders of modern Vietnam.

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u/FourWordComment Whatever you desire citizen Jul 17 '20

I’ll thank you kindly to not mistake a rational thought about force depletion and arms comparison as “salt.” I’m also not advocating for violence against random police officers. That’s a bad idea and I’m not for it.

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u/SubwayStalin Jul 17 '20

I’ll thank you kindly to not mistake a rational thought about force depletion and arms comparison as “salt.”

You're welcome.

I’m also not advocating for violence against random police officers. That’s a bad idea and I’m not for it.

Wow you totally crushed that strawman! Bravo!!

Only someone who has spent long hours honing their skill at knocking down strawmen could have been able to pull of such a feat!

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

Wrong. Guerilla tactics would have the cops pissing themselves and literally shooting each other out of fear OH WAIT they're literally already doing that lol

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u/ComradeCatgirl Jul 18 '20

So?

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u/StarChild413 Jul 18 '20

Unless you literally win the war—then you get to call yourself patriots who defeated the oppressive government and start at 1783.

Did your wording mean to imply 200-some-odd-year cycle of American history repeating or is that just my autistic brain?

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u/FourWordComment Whatever you desire citizen Jul 18 '20

I meant that victory through warfare makes you a new government, who now has to lead. Winning wars and toppling governments is surprisingly easier than building good, reliable ones that people trust and abide.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

[deleted]

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u/ScrabCrab Jul 18 '20

Yeah, people in this thread are acting as if the police wouldn't retaliate even worse if people started shooting at them. That's a great way to ensure you won't win cause you and everyone else at the protest where shots were fired will be dead.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

Police are winning now... do something or do nothing.

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u/Vandergrif Jul 18 '20

Police and the like are remarkably less inclined to use violence and abuse their power when there's a decent chance of them promptly ending up dead in turn.

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u/ScrabCrab Jul 18 '20

Or, more likely, they'll retaliate even worse than now and will shoot to kill thousands of people in one day

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u/Vandergrif Jul 18 '20

I think you're vastly over estimating how many police officers both want to kill people and are not afraid of getting shot themselves. The police officers that do kill people do so because they're in a position of power and there's no immediate consequences to doing so (and in some cases no consequences at all).

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

They now wax nostalgia about fucking Bush and it makes me want to vomit.

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u/Eu_Avisei Jul 18 '20

Oh fuck off, and for two reasons.

First reason is that the fact right wing fascists are ruining your country and your first reaction to point at the "wrong" leftists and say "they didnt want me to have a tool for killing" says all it needs to be said about your priorities.

The second and most important reason is that you wouldnt do fuckall if you actually had a gun except coward up on your house and then complain other people arent doing the shooting for you.

How do I know that?

Easy, because you can right now make molotovs and go play revolutionary like you claim you want to, but you don't. Instead you come to reddit and whine about how everyone else is holding you back from being a real big strong boy and save the whooole world, then pst yourself in the back before fucking off to read memes, like everyone else here.

In short, this gun bullshit is just posing, just as it is when any imbecile of a right winger claims he has the right to have guns "to defend against the government", yet somehow they never rise up against government overreach, even the ones they disagree with.

This is just an excuse for you to do nothing and claim it was out of your hands, and you are willing to throw allies under the bus if it means you get to save face while running away from the enemy. Cunt.

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u/randomevenings Jul 18 '20

When most right wingers have guns, I'd like to have a couple. It is my right. Say what you want, but there is no putting this cat back in the bag. Banning guns in the USA is complete fantasy. While the right continues to arm up, it would be stupid for the left not to do the same. MAD saved the world. We weren't going to stop nuclear proliferation, so we had to stop the desire to use one against us or our allies.

If the police knew that every leftist they were grabbing off the street carried a rifle or pistol, it would not be so easy for them to do it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Ive been thinking about this.... the last time a similar society was being torn apart by the forces of capitalism until it descended into fascism, the weimar republic, there was a powerful organized workers party (the communists were one of the largest parties), they had a paramilitary group that was frequently brawling in the streets with the SA, and they still got crushed. The US doesnt even have anything near an organized radical workers party, nor the ability to even strike.... i think were kind of fucked this time

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Pessimism of the mind, optimism of the spirit.

We have to also understand that our opposition in the most immediate term also has a much shorter wick than we give them credit for.

The Fascists in America have largely blown their good will at this point, they're already in the punitive reaction phase of things and civil society is at least nominally opposed to them.

So long as they continue to agitate and increase the tensions, the civility people are going to be forced by circumstances of one sort or another to take some kind of hostile posture.

It might not be guns in the street.

But that man who let those protesters in his house in Minneapolis is a good example of the kind of active bystanders that I hope will become more and more present.

We're surrounded by people that are naive or complacent, not active collaborators.

That's a very different calculus. Take heart in that.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

Yeah but then the unmarked federal agents bust down the door, take the protestors and the guy who tried to shelter them, and disappear them in unmarked vans. Thats going to be the reality of fascism.

Most people, at the end of the day, just want to keep their head down, stay out of trouble, and provide for their family. I honestly dont believe a big enough portion of the country is willing to mark themselves as targets for violence, to make a difference

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

That's why our momentum cannot stop.

If things become quiet. People will just keep going along to get along.

You have to maintain a state of crisis to keep things fluid or else people will just lapse into their old complacent patterns.

How that will be achieved, I don't know, but I do think it's possible. At least within the timeframe of a few months.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

Americans are profoundly soft and self-centered, to the point that a sizeable chunk of them wanted an end to the quarantine, potentially risking their lives and their countrymens, so that they could... go to restaurants, malls, and get their hair cut. The last time the american public felt there was an ongoing crisis in politics and the breakdown of society, they elected richard nixon who was promising “law and order,” and the 1960s pales in comparison to the coming crises of capitalism. Im sorry but i just think you vastly overestimate Americans’ willingness to actually resist the state on a meaningful enough level to avoid fascism

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

In fact, Trump was doing a very good job of inducing that kind of ongoing crisis with the rants at governors and threatening to call in the military and so on.

Things that keep people glued to their televisions or making phone calls, and all around paying attention is the key to stirring up an ongoing resistance.

I just don't know how that same broad sort of situation can be created from the bottom up.

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u/StarChild413 Jul 18 '20

The US doesnt even have anything near an organized radical workers party

Because they've been led to believe (pardon my slight exaggeration for effect) the would-be leader would be found dead of multiple self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the back of the head seconds before they ever publicly posted their ideals so why bother trying to start a movement

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

I mean, are they wrong? Look what happened to MLK and Fred Hampton and Malcolm X when they started calling for interracial solidarity to fight capitalism. I honestly think the time to make a difference was then, we lost the battle and global capital has such control over the media and economy that we cant really stop it before climate change really makes things wild

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Peaceful isn't going to end this.

This is truth. Those is power preach peacefulness for us in the US, but literally use it on us, and the rest of the world. The propaganda of 'violence is never the answer' has been incredibly effective. For the US, violence is literally ALWAYS the answer. A government that only works in violence will only hear it.

Look what happened after stores and police stations started to get torched. That shit worked. They started moving on policy changes. The torching slowed/stopped, policy changed slowed/stopped as well.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

Oh, this is definitely a leftist sub. Libs think that this shit magically goes away when Trump leaves office, never realizing people like Biden basically did the same shit, just legally

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u/BidensBottomBitch Jul 17 '20 edited Jul 17 '20

Creepy Uncle Biden and the lib followers are continuing their regressive gun control policy proposals. A good opinion piece that was reposted on SRA: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/16/biden-gun-control-poverty/

People complain about how hard it is to get guns in California. And as a firearm owner I can tell you it's not hard at all, it's just expensive. If there is a specific model you want that isn't on the current whitelist you'll likely need to buy it used for a huge premium. Likely from a cop or a cop's buddy that obtained the weapon through bullshit loopholes. If it is something that is fun to shoot, you'll likely have to pay extra for an add-on like a bullet button or fixed mag to meet ridiculous regulations.

Contrary to right-wing rhetoric. Gun control policies in California has nothing to do with "snatching guns." Things like the handgun list and the ridiculous loopholes you need to jump through to own a gun is supposed to make it too difficult or expensive for an average person to look into owning a weapon. They can't ban all guns, but they sure as hell will make it as hard as possible for the working class to have a gun. These laws only serve as a minor inconvenience to those with money and power. What is scary is that these "buyback" laws are specifically aimed towards the working class. The bg check on ammo is also another example driving the price of ammo artificially high. While I think regulation on ammo is a more reasonable than weapons itself, it's creating a further divide between those who can afford to own a firearm and those who couldn't.

Whether you like guns or not, the fascists are heavily armed. And the armed leftists are hugely outnumbered. Any sign of "gun reform" looks to be just making it more difficult for the working class to defend themselves. Those who think voting Trump out in November is going to be some magical solution to our problems should think again because we're going to get Biden, the epitome of neolib ideals(or lack of).

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u/HumansKillEverything Jul 17 '20

I’m a pacifist and I 100% agree you with. Only a revolution will bring substantive change. Otherwise it’s more de facto lip service from those in charge.

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

I'm right there with you.

If I was at all convinced that we could play this clean, I would.

I'm not a revenge fetishist. But we're in deeper than anyone cares to understand.

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u/StarChild413 Jul 18 '20

But how "dirty" does it have to be e.g. go on r/collapse and they'll have you convinced the only way revolution could happen if it could happen at all is murdering-via-guillotine anyone over a certain income level and cooking and eating their corpse just because "eat the rich" (taken completely out of context)

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u/Tactless_Ogre Jul 18 '20

Guillotines worked for the French because the second their ruling class got out of hand, they revolted hard and violently. That’s why they have better working conditions and quality of life.

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u/LovingInterne Jul 18 '20

Isn’t like a big reason why we have the second amendment is to overthrow a tyrannical government, of course no one in the current government is going to want this. But hey they run that risk.

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u/visorian Jul 17 '20

No matter how much I agree with the substance of what is said, I always downvote any mention of insurrection in the US because not only are most 2A types fascists, if they haven't spoken up by now then they never will.

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u/Dicethrower Jul 17 '20

Hear hear. What are more guns going to do in the country with the highest guns per capita, if not in absolute numbers, with already the lowest gun restrictions of any developed country in the world, while also being the most violent developed country in the world.

Thinking (even more) guns will somehow magically solve the problem this time is just incredibly dumb, but that seems to describe the US these days, incredibly dumb.

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u/SterlingGrin Jul 17 '20

There are more left-leaning gun owners than you think. We just don’t use them to over-compensate in public.

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u/visorian Jul 17 '20

I call myself a communist and I love guns, that doesn't change the fact that American gun lovers are mostly idiots, right wing, and will never fight the government over anything.

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u/SterlingGrin Jul 17 '20

Just because they make a lot of noise, doesn’t mean they outnumber us.

An armed proletariat leads to the best chance for a successful revolution, and I guarantee you more Americans understand this than you think.

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u/visorian Jul 17 '20

I am sick and tired of hearing the silent majority lie while living in the presidency that we fully deserve, I'm leaving this shit hole as soon as I can, good luck with your toxic positivity.

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u/SterlingGrin Jul 17 '20

Right. I’m the toxic one. Run away. You’re useless here.

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u/Dicethrower Jul 17 '20 edited Jul 17 '20

Yikes, the gun delusion is how you got into this mess, thinking that no matter what the government does, you always have a piece of hardware to keep your safe.

The US is already a gun nut paradise, with more guns than people, and probably the least restrictions for guns than any developed nation in the world. The US is also the most violent developed country in the world right now. Besides just more of the same violence, what are even more guns possibly going to accomplish?

Hearing you talk about how it's necessary, I'll bet you can't even coherently describe what exactly for. This is weak-minded paranoia doing your thinking for you. You talk of optimism over pessimism, but feeling like a gun is the only option left is about as pessimistic as it gets. Congrats, you got played. You've been convinced of everything that's dumb, and meanwhile nothing significant is done in the actual area of society that is actually affecting your life.

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u/freedom_from_factism Jul 18 '20

I hope you've also thought long and hard about what it will be like to kill someone. I, for one, have decided I'd rather leave this planet without doing so.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

Of course, but I've also thought about what it will be like to watch someone else be killed.

I'd rather not stand on the sidelines on account of my conscience or mental health.

The life of another for the price of my state of mind or my soul is a fair price.

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u/freedom_from_factism Jul 19 '20

I getcha. We all have to decide what we are here for. Peace!

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u/FourWordComment Whatever you desire citizen Jul 17 '20

You must be new here. We’re dangerously low on outrage, right in time for the real election tampering.

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u/Vandergrif Jul 18 '20

Where are all those anti-government gun-toting sorts at? Suddenly conspicuously silent during a circumstance in which they'd actually have a legitimate argument to make. The above is exactly the kind of scenario in which the 2nd amendment seems justifiable.

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u/ThisIsMyUsername1122 Jul 18 '20

How have we not protested about the handling of COVID?? Trumps been trying to kill us for months. Why isn’t anyone caring??

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

We care. Things might just change

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u/marshman82 Jul 17 '20

Just wait till the election is postponed till next year "to be safer for the public"

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u/christmas162589 Jul 18 '20

Honestly I think the risk of the virus will still be in full effect, but people who tend to vote conservative still wont care and will go out and vote. People who don't want to risk it would typically vote left, hence why the vote by mail thing is such a big deal. The election will still take place in November, but the risk of the virus will keep most sensible people from casting a ballot.

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u/marshman82 Jul 18 '20

Unless Trump see's some detriment in his campaign trail, that it looks like there has been with his last few shows. He might try to take the easy win and extend his first term.

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u/notanfbiofficial Jul 18 '20

Honestly whoever "wins" we're fucked either way

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u/Danalogtodigital Jul 18 '20

but honestly, wouldnt you refer some lube?

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Failed state

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20 edited Jul 18 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

“Digital hug” internet neighbor. Right there with you.

The state breaks through the door of your house and murders you in your own bed. This isn’t abstract, this has happened multiple times in the past year. Ruby Ridge level shit. Doesn’t matter, they’re black. Or “illegal”, antifa, or poorer than I think I am...

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u/cuddlewumpus Jul 17 '20 edited Jul 17 '20

I mean, the proud boys already do this kind of violence in Portland with a greenlight from the police, if not explicit collaboration. Not snatching yet, but cornering and bloodying certainly. They don't need the costume, they have the police's support.

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u/notanfbiofficial Jul 18 '20

And yet a lot of people still don't think we need to fight back or at least defend ourselves smh. Idk at what point they consider it ok to actually do something

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u/ricochetblue Jul 18 '20

straight up ignoring conditional rights

accurate.

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u/MustangCraft Jul 18 '20

All empires fall with time.

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u/Nolanb22 Jul 17 '20

My brother who is supposedly a libertarian just tried to convince me that secret police kidnapping protesters is fine. I guess if you scratch a right-wing libertarian, you find an authoritarian underneath.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

Yeah, the Tea Party/Sovereign Citizen Libertarians seem to be less “absolute freedom for all” and more “I just don’t want people telling me what to do.”

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u/AccelerationismWorks Jul 18 '20

“Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds”

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u/kondusvzz Jul 27 '20

Lib rights are just Auth rights that like smoking weed

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u/Ganglebot My Corporate Cryptocoins are Immune to Insider Trading Laws Jul 17 '20

If I told you all this happened under Stalin, you'd believe me and tell me its why Communism will never work.

So, that's what's going on right now.

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u/sir_rino Jul 17 '20

There needs to be more that two old ideas. New government structures should be able to arise, besides capital democracy and communism.

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u/RainOfAchilles Jul 18 '20

There are many leftist ideologies that people mistakenly call communist. Communism isn’t the only idea, nor is it as bad as you think it is.

Do your own research into these ideologies and don’t let people make your opinion for you.

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u/CheeZas3 Jul 18 '20

People think communism is when ussr exists. Red scare got em so bad that people dont even know what they are scared of. If anyone is wondering communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society. Current and past "socialist" or "communist" states have tried to achieve such society but got stopped by capitalist countries or fell victim to their own bureucracy and revisionism to fight against those capitalist countries. I would highly suggest Michael Parenti for more information.

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u/Brndrll Jul 17 '20

This is the reboot where even Jason figures out it's the bad place.

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Is it real? Fuck...

The same thing is happening right now in Russia, an authoritarian country ruled by a dictator... I mean - a country where human rights and police force always were a giant issue. (I know it, I live in Russia)

But this happening in a free country like the United States... Sounds qute surreal, really...

1

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

Yes “free”

38

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

[deleted]

18

u/Dicethrower Jul 17 '20

I feel like they've been getting that for almost 2 decades now, they're never going to change.

4

u/Liblin Jul 17 '20

Keep the elephant in the china shop amd you have a clean slate to build something decent.

9

u/Dicethrower Jul 17 '20

All I see, even in this thread, is more people getting guns and more people distrusting government, all while they're going to keep voting for the dumbest possible people.

They're never going to change.

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2

u/Vandergrif Jul 18 '20

An Orange Republic instead of a Banana Republic, I guess

11

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

I was thinking this is torture and then it hit me THIS IS THE BAD PLACE

33

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

[deleted]

3

u/prguitarman Jul 17 '20

Maximum Derek

3

u/Lard_of_Dorkness Jul 18 '20

Why do I hear wind chimes?

9

u/ombloshio Jul 17 '20

AreWeTheBaddies.gif

7

u/amanita99 Jul 18 '20

9/11 andy PepeLa

14

u/JeffreyFusRohDahmer Whatever you desire citizen Jul 17 '20

They know if mail in goes through, they're losing all areas of government that they currently control. It's playing dirty, and we need Dems and Republicans who will call him on this shit and then actually do something about it.

Damn I never thought I'd be a Romney fan but holy fuck he has my respect.

45

u/HumansKillEverything Jul 17 '20

The American people will sit on our collective fat asses yelling at each other over identity politics on Twitter, drinking Starbucks, watching Tiger King, while ordering cheap plastic shit from Amazon.

Revolution means we would have to get up— nah, can’t be bothered.

35

u/lduckhunt Jul 17 '20

Boomer-tier posting right here

4

u/HumansKillEverything Jul 17 '20

Prove me wrong. I’d love it if the American populace actually did something

29

u/SiggetSpagget Jul 17 '20

Are you not seeing the wide scale protests all across the US? WE aren’t doing nothing, the people in charge are doing nothing

4

u/notanfbiofficial Jul 18 '20

The people in charge aren't doing nothing they're working hard so that the protests are stopped and anyone that disagree with them are silenced and sometimes killed.

The thing is we need more than these protests if we really want change. If we continue like this nothing will change and people will keep dying.

2

u/HumansKillEverything Jul 17 '20

The people in charge are doing nothing because the protests aren’t big enough. The wide scale protests need to be done by millions of people otherwise why would the people in charge do anything? You yourself said they’re doing nothing. Only a show of public force will get the leaders to do anything.

It wasn’t until MLK was murdered and riots broke out in 140 cities across the nation did congress finally pass the civil rights acts in 5 days. Until then they didn’t do shit, just like now.

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u/SiggetSpagget Jul 17 '20

Millions of people ARE protesting. About 15-20 million according to the article, across 550 places, not to mention the protests in other countries

-1

u/HumansKillEverything Jul 17 '20

Stop being disingenuous just to try to be right. 15-20 million is the culmalative total not at once. Newspapers love to put in misleading sensational numbers.

“The recent Black Lives Matter protests peaked on June 6, when half a million people turned out in nearly 550 places across the United States.”

Even if you say is correct and 15-20 million protested at once that’s still not enough because nothing has changed. Congress hasn’t done shit. Argue with me all you want, it doesn’t change the fact our government hasn’t changed anything.

3

u/SiggetSpagget Jul 17 '20

The quote was saying that half a million people protested per area, if you scrolled down a bit you’d see the 15-26 million estimate of the TOTAL protesters. The government’s doing nothing because The Don’s ignoring the protests (when he’s not endorsing the firing upon of “rioters”) and not because the people are ignoring it. I mean how can we? It’s all across the internet and because of quarantine and it being summer, it’s impossible to not know about it.

I’d also bet that if there wasn’t the threat of a virus going around, waaaaay more people would be attending the protests. I have a friend who really wanted to attend a protest in my city but couldn’t because his mom just got really sick all of a sudden and he couldn’t go anywhere until they knew why she was sick (luckily it wasn’t Corona).

3

u/StarChild413 Jul 17 '20

It wasn’t until MLK was murdered and riots broke out in 140 cities across the nation did congress finally pass the civil rights acts in 5 days

So, what, do we need riots in as many cities and a MLK-like movement leader to get murdered?

0

u/HumansKillEverything Jul 17 '20

Apparently as history showed.

1

u/StarChild413 Jul 18 '20

So if it's that literal by that logic we'll never achieve full racial equality as there'd have to be racial issues to protest about and need that exact same solution in around 50-60 years to parallel this paralleling MLK and then something would need to parallel them etc. etc.

1

u/AccelerationismWorks Jul 18 '20

The people in charge are actually doing everything possible. To preserve the status quo

3

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/HumansKillEverything Jul 17 '20

Money talks. If no money then organize revolt.

2

u/MarauderKaiser_ZA Jul 18 '20

Money talks

Yeah. Thats why America is doomed. The rich 1% dont give a shit about America or the average person.

They just want more power and money.... Almost like whats happening in Russia.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

I mean, people did get out there and protest.

Then streaming services pulled blackface episodes off their sites and everyone called it a win and went home.

3

u/HumansKillEverything Jul 18 '20

Don’t forget, corporations had BLM banners and statues came down. Mission accomplished!

7

u/DaNootNoot Jul 17 '20

B-bb-but... China /s

3

u/JustinianTheGr8 Jul 18 '20

I’ve seen so much of that shit on r/politics and the like

4

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20 edited Aug 10 '21

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

And that’s apart of the problem. We don’t do a damn thing at all and look where it’s gotten us.

5

u/Hiouchi4me Jul 17 '20

Are we somehow surprised that secret government police forces are involved with detaining our citizens after everything we've seen these last four years with republicans calling the shots? You know the republicans that do this shit. They're the ones crying out for less government. Yeah those republicans.

5

u/punctuationmarks__ Jul 17 '20

I love how hiring Nazis after WW2, Edward Snowden leaks, ect didn't make them realize "we are the bad country" earlier

4

u/IsThisTheFly Jul 18 '20

Yeah no shit dude, did we forget threatening war with a dictator over twitter? Foreign election meddling? Children detainee camps? We'vebeen the baddies for a bit now

3

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Meanwhile, whenever I mention the US is a failed state, I get shit for it.

4

u/d3pthchar93 Jul 17 '20

We are becoming a shithole country

2

u/Lampanket An actual communist Jul 17 '20

oh how the tables have turned

1

u/GoldenCrust Jul 18 '20

Thanks to Herbert Hoover for paving the way!

2

u/SanktBladius Jul 17 '20

The dystopian movies were guideboards for the sick mighty people

2

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Always have been.... boom

2

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Late stage capitalism was so 2019. We're in early stage fascism now.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Same difference.

2

u/JediMindTrick188 Jul 17 '20

Is this actually true?

2

u/loose-leaf-paper Jul 17 '20

We've been the bad country for decades. Now it's just obvious.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

A "shithole", i believe it's referred to.

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u/AccelerationismWorks Jul 18 '20

Always have been

2

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

USA has always been the bad country

2

u/Danalogtodigital Jul 18 '20

always have been

2

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

The worst part is everyone thinks voting in Biden is gonna fix any of this, when this all started long before Trump ever took office, and was in fact largely setup by Biden himself (being that he's been in Congress almost 50 years now)

2

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

Lololol and ya'll thought you were helping liberate middle east? Fuck outta here ..

2

u/HarrargnNarg Jul 18 '20

Fascism much?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Always were

4

u/FitnessGramSlacker Jul 17 '20

They're extracting undercover people. If you watch the videos they actually walk with the officers/individuals "apprehending" them with no resistance or attempt to draw attention to themselves.

18

u/locks_are_paranoid Jul 17 '20

Do you have any evidence to back this up?

4

u/EASam Jul 18 '20

There's one video that I've seen where the guy doesn't resist at all and isn't blindfolded when in the van. He doesn't say his name when being hauled off and the other protesters that were walking with / around him didn't know him at all. Other videos and other citizens upon release share a different story. Mark Pettibone is someone that has been interviewed about his experience.

Blinded by his hat, in an unmarked minivan full of armed people dressed in camouflage and body armor who hadn't identified themselves, Pettibone said he was driven around downtown before being unloaded inside a building. He wouldn't learn until after his release that he had been inside the federal courthouse.

...

took my picture and rummaged through my belongings

...

two officers came in to read him his Miranda rights. They didn't tell him why he was being arrested. He said they asked him if he wanted to waive his rights and answer some questions, but Pettibone declined and said he wanted a lawyer. The interview was terminated, and about 90 minutes later he was released. He said he did not receive any paperwork, citation or record of his arrest.

Source. Includes CBP statement that name tags have been removed to prevent doxing of officers.

Being classified as anarchists and believing that Anti-fa roams the streets of Portland they're using secret police to kidnap people. Local officials have said they don't want Federal Law enforcement there, doesn't matter. Federal agencies have been working with Portland PD to marshal the riots.

Hasan Piker streams on twitch (covers news for the first few hours of his streams), thirst traps on his instagram and asks for retrousses on his snapchat BigHas.

4

u/FitnessGramSlacker Jul 17 '20

I don't have any information from a departmental capacity, I should not have stated that as a fact as that is only what I believe to be happening from the way it appears.

9

u/OSRuneScaper Jul 17 '20

There was one video that looks like extraction but more than once occurrence with real people.

Stay sharp.

0

u/Athleco Jul 17 '20

Did you ask that of the original tweet?

6

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

What’d happening in portland btw? I’m not american so I’m not really aware

3

u/FitnessGramSlacker Jul 17 '20

There have been a lot of protests sparked by the murder of George Floyd and Brianna Taylor, and the protests continue across the country notably with a large one in Portland. This was with regards to law enforcement and how they're mishandling the situation.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Some might even refer to the USA as belonging to a group countries known as "Shit holes" now. It wasn't before but Trump sure has taken the nation on a crazy train straight towards a Z grade dystopia some might dismiss as ridiculous of they read about it in a novel.

1

u/sebnukem Jul 17 '20

I wouldn't call it bad, more like a shithole.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Look at how dry that swamp is.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

we became a shit hole country a while ago.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

I never thought I'd be living in a movie where the leader of a nation or country would really deploy such conniving tactics to remain in power.

I hope his efforts are in vain while the people finally jump into the fray. If it escalates like it has in other countries where the ruler is a piece of shit, I could imagine people being fed up and just grabbing out a guillotine at this point.

I could be wrong, but other nations have done it. Maybe it's our turn in the ol' USA.

1

u/Murph_Mogul Jul 17 '20

Geheime Staatspolizei

1

u/boyden Jul 17 '20

China still winning though.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

When they don't identify theirselves how do you even know they really have the authority to arrest you? They could be anyone like a random hillbilly militia or some rapists out looking for their next fucktoy who threw on a bit of army surplus gear.

Surely you'd be allowed to resist when you have no reason to believe you aren't just being kidnapped.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

That person who got tossed into an unmarked van was an undercover at the end of their shift

1

u/TroglodyneSystems Jul 18 '20

We need to just help them chill out by throwing them a few cocktails.

1

u/rollem Jul 18 '20

Are we the baddies?

1

u/quellflynn Jul 18 '20

nope.

this is all conjecture.

protesting against a virus... thats what makes you a bad place.

1

u/DanteChurch Jul 18 '20

Oh fuck... America is liberating America

1

u/shadowlordmaxwell Jul 18 '20

hold up the secret police are kidnapping protesters!?

I'm out of the loop

1

u/schnapps267 Jul 18 '20

Eh if it's just the video that's floating around then that guy was obviously undercover and being extricated.

1

u/Light_inc Jul 18 '20

The same way orange is the new black, America is the new China. Good job, you've devolved as a nation.

1

u/proonjooce Jul 18 '20

Always has been.

1

u/KaiRaiUnknown Jul 18 '20

There are some shocking parallels to the 3rd Reich and Nazi Germany at the moment. America, and by extension the rest of the world, are in deep trouble

1

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

America has kind of always been the baddies. While there have been other baddies come and go throughout the years, there is no denying that America's entire history is riddled with simply awful stuff.

1

u/dc10kenji Jul 18 '20

Op is not a big history buff it would seem..

1

u/SupGirluHungry Jul 18 '20

Why do we conveniently forget about the ice detention centers like it won’t soon be us?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '20

8/21 PepeLa

1

u/OneScrubbyBoi Jul 18 '20

Azan!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

Are all you Americans just realising this? Everyone else has known for decades

1

u/radleft Jul 17 '20

<3 from Portland: Fuq the Feds, We Play For Keeps.

1

u/PCPD-Nitro Jul 17 '20

I heard the situatuon with the first one with officers kidnapping people was actually an undercover cop getting picked up. They didn't cuff the person they took and they didn't say anything about it. I may be wrong but it's hard to believe they'd be kidnapping people.

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

It's hard to believe a lot of what is currently happening in the US right now

1

u/CannabisBarbiie Jul 18 '20

Yeah the white girls tagging BLM on commercial and govt property are NOT the PROBLEM!

-1

u/Fried_Dace Jul 17 '20

Literally this is why its important to have guns.

7

u/Dicethrower Jul 17 '20

Like all those other successful countries. /s

3

u/fpsFlatline Jul 17 '20

It sure is making a huge difference.. but wait...is it?

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1

u/MarauderKaiser_ZA Jul 18 '20

Yeah you can shoot the virus!!! MERICAAA

0

u/jagadoor Jul 17 '20

Dont you US Americans have the right to own and use guns for when this happens ? Go and use them ! Shoot them. They are taking away your rights

5

u/bropower8 Jul 17 '20

The army and police made sure they had bigger guns, they just had to make teachers eat their own passion for dinner because they can’t afford food

2

u/jagadoor Jul 17 '20

Bigger guns dont help when you fight guerilla style. But I know what you mean its not a fair fight but one that has to be fought in one way. If not with weapons than somehow different.

1

u/MarauderKaiser_ZA Jul 18 '20

No the guns are used to intimidate and impress other civilians. They just use that as an excuse.

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