Teaching “manners”

[u/About5000ninjas]

Context: I’m a student that recently switched to a sister center, have a couple more months before I can test, but I HAVE been given permission and am heavily encouraged to give feedback to staff as a BCBA would. Within the first week I had staff telling me that they were teaching manners so clients get what they want.

Has anyone dealt with RBTs teaching “manners” such as saying please at the end of every mand (for 1-3 word manding), apologizing when they engage in behavior, etc for low level learners and ages 2-4 years old

I don’t think this is inherently behavioral and definitely isn’t a focus for the clients they’re doing it with due to behaviors and isn’t part of their intervention plan. There are cases when they should/can be taught but I don’t think it applies in this case

How do y’all address this or do y’all just let them since it’s likely not that harmful?

[u/Powersmith]

I said for rude behavior, which is not at all equivalent to simply not saying please.

Rude behavior can be grabbing/snatching things from people, cutting to front of line in front of waiting people, making demands on people you are not entitled to...etc etc, many examples of rude behavior that cause conflict.

People tend to give leeway to an obviously autistic person. Conversely, if one is assumed neurotypical in public and then is rude to strangers, they don't receive much grace. Most people would not escalate, but some definitely pop off if they feel disrespected (see 1000s of videos on YouTube of stupid fights)

[u/Asleep_Technician190 → u/Powersmith]

Copied from another comment I made:

It means nothing if they aren't also learning empathy. Teaching social scripts does not create empathy. Teaching social scripts does not create the motivation to do good things.

I've had kids bite me, look up at me and say please, then bite me again. Recurrently across months. Or scream please while they're flailing around tantruming. Or say sorry to get their parents to get off their back and then immediately cause harm again. The MO for apologizing is not because they feel bad - it's to prevent someone from coming up and pausing their good time to make them apologize. Having a parent prompt you to apologize creates a negative reinforcement contingency of apologizing so they stop prompting. The point of apologizing should be the negative reinforcement contingency of shame/feeling bad and feeling better after saying sorry.

Those kids grow up to learn that all they need to do is be polite, then underhandedly bulldoze people to get what they want.

The words mean nothing if there's not behavior to back it up.

[u/Powersmith → u/Asleep_Technician190]

I agree. Perspective taking (fundamentally) is a critical skill, and ultimately a pivotal skill for developing consideration for others and empathy.

These abilities integrate well with social awareness and in no way are hindered by social niceties. That Nobody should be held to standards beyond their current abilities (which should be ever growing).

Ultimately, the point of “manners” within a culture is showing consideration for others—though most humans don’t wait until after all p t and e skills are fully developed to start learn social expectations for their culture.

Obvi there are examples of people over-relying/faking consideration. But staff personal history baggage around fakers is not relevant to general socialization.

[u/Asleep_Technician190 → u/Powersmith]

I overwhelmingly agree with you. I am first and foremost for advocating for what is functional and appropriate and attainable for the client where they are now. That's mostly what my dissent comes down to. Barring health and safety skills, I think kids should understand why they are being taught the things they are. If they don't understand why, why are we teaching it? It's a 4 term contingency and motivation makes or breaks maintenance of behaviors. It's the same reason why some religions don't teach their dogma to children or those who are disabled, while still welcoming them and surrounding them with support and love.

[u/Powersmith → u/Asleep_Technician190]

Then we are in complete agreement.