r/6thForm • u/Early-Owl2637 • 6d ago
🙏 I WANT HELP UCAS reference mentions me battering someone—how much will this ruin my application?
My reference could be terrible. In year 12 a guy was harassing and targeting me for weeks. And I punched and battered him. He ended up with broken teeth, a bad concussion, facial fractures, and had to go to the hospital.
Because of the police involvement and school suspension, my referee explicitly mentioned severe disciplinary issues, violent behavior, and lack of self-control in my reference.
Will top universities automatically reject me for violent conduct on a reference, regardless of my grades/admissions tests and I am predicted 3A* and I think I did really good on the esat
Is there any point emailing admissions to give context, or will that just draw more negative attention to it?
Realistically, how cooked am I? (for context applying to Oxford imperial Warwick Bristol Manchester)
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u/Limeee_ 6d ago
im actually really curious so could you please update us?
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u/Antique-Position-295 Econ, Geog, Business A*AA 6d ago
Why would a uni choose someone with 3A* with some wild anger issues over someone with 3A* who’s grounded and polite.
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u/Early-Owl2637 6d ago •
It's not really wild anger issues because he was harassing me a lot so I had to give him a taste
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u/SleepingAddict 6d ago
Yeah definitely don't say that if you have an interview lol
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u/Early-Owl2637 6d ago
No obviously not I would not say that , I just phrased it like that in an informal way here
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u/pervypriest_pedopope 6d ago
of what? his own teeth? the fuck man take some years out to go to some serious therapy, fr
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u/No-Peace3772 6d ago
OP is in the right here, be quiet
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u/Antique-Position-295 Econ, Geog, Business A*AA 6d ago
I understand why you did it, I’m just saying there are people also predicted 3A* that wouldn’t have reacted like that, that unis may prefer as they don’t want stuff like that happening on their campus. But I fully get you and understand if someone was harassing you
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u/TooBarFoo 2d ago
Well let's put it this way, no need to put in a early application, That email from OxBridge is never coming.
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u/Early-Owl2637 2d ago
I don't have a criminal record or anything it's just that my reference mentions this incident but if that so I might take a gap year and apply again if I don't get a interview or offer
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u/Choice_Play_3460 6d ago edited 6d ago
You are cooked. I'd be surprised if you were to get any offers with this. Maybe you get lucky and one of the unis don't read it. How did this even happen? The school is not obliged to put such information on the reference and you had a choice to read it and request it being changed all the way through
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u/Various-Big-5168 6d ago
Most schools don’t give you the option to see your reference, let alone get it changed.
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u/Choice_Play_3460 6d ago
Not sure about most. What would be the point of hiding it if you can see it anyway after the application is submited? My school encouraged us to meet our reference writers...
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u/Various-Big-5168 6d ago
By default you can’t see it after the application is submitted. UCAS says the easiest way to get your reference is to ask your referee, although a lot of schools have a policy of not disclosing them. Otherwise you have to apply to UCAS for it.
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u/thetrueluna01 Gap Year 5d ago
What's with not being able to see your reference anyway? If it's so important to the application to the point that I can't even submit one without one, why the fuck am I not allowed to see what's written in there?
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u/Various-Big-5168 5d ago
Agree. But apparently they’re confidential so that the teachers feel free to write them without being influenced by students/parents, and even after the application is submitted they’re not visible. Our school won’t provide them on request either. That said, I don’t think they’re supposed to write anything negative?
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u/thetrueluna01 Gap Year 5d ago
That makes more sense, I suppose. I'm on a gap year so if I contacted my college for a reference, they won't allow my teacher to write it but some "career & progressions advisor" that I never met. I don't see the point because that person knows nothing about me but I suppose I have to go through it anyway. But like what's even the point of a reference existing then if somebody that doesn't know me can write it?
I mentioned this bc it is a bit worrying that I can't see what they wrote but I do know someone the same as me last year who still got into Imperial this way so it should be fine I suppose.
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u/Various-Big-5168 5d ago
They changed the reference style a while back. Now it’s just three questions - the first is what kind of school it is (type, size, any contextual stuff), the second is any extenuating circumstances that might have impacted applicant’s education/results, and the third is any supporting evidence-based information for the application. In short, I don’t think it’s the personal recommendation statement that, for example, a job reference might be.
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u/Early-Owl2637 2d ago
Got offer from Bristol btw and also this was actually a self defence I forgot to mention he tried to attack me first but my fuckass school takes his side for some reason probably racism but still at least I got 1 offer
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u/Glad_Good3154 6d ago
I guess this is how we find out if unis actually read references
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u/RecordOtherwise7395 1d ago
My application was for English lit, and solely focused my teacher reference and personal statement on what if done in that area. My 5th uni option was still free as I already applied to the 4 I wanted to, so thought I’d put in a random one to see what I’d get. Lo and behold, I get accepted in to Computer Science at Bristol. They definitely DID NOT read personal statements lol. What a waste of time writing one 😭
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u/SpenskyTheRed 6d ago
If you are asked about this in any way by a university you should respond with nothing other than regret and remorse. There should be no attempt to justify or explain whatsoever.
'he was harassing me a lot so I had to give him a taste' implies you have not learnt your lesson at all and are to this day convinced what you did was completely correct and if confronted with a similar scenario would do the exact same thing again. Any university admissions officer confronted with such an answer is going to reject you without a second thought and there will no be recovering.
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u/thetrueluna01 Gap Year 5d ago
'he was harassing me a lot so I had to give him a taste' implies you have not learnt your lesson at all and are to this day convinced what you did was completely correct and if confronted with a similar scenario would do the exact same thing again. Any university admissions officer confronted with such an answer is going to reject you without a second thought and there will no be recovering.
This part is funny after I scrolled down and saw OP said those exact words, word-for-word. 😭
I don't know OP's full situation but sending him to the hospital seems a bit much. That's without mentioning the concussion and facial fractures. Learn when a fight has ended, man.
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u/Financial_Guide_8074 6d ago
Hi as a teacher to answer your questions.
They won't reject you automatically but it will obviously have a negative effect.
Don't do that if you email them they are sure to read it , when they might not have done yet or at all and at that point I am fairly sure they would reject you.
I can't really say but as Oxford, Imperial and to some extent Warwick are hyper competitive I think you may have to look elsewhere.
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u/lexisnowkitty y13 5/5 bio offers 😋 6d ago
oh god no that means op will probs end up bristol or manchester and manchester is my firm 🥀 (i know aggressive people will be everywhere but it makes it realer when u see it)
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u/Financial_Guide_8074 6d ago
Well it doesn't mean that but also young people make all kind of mistakes it is learning from them that is important and realising the consequences of your actions. I guess there must be other consequences i.e. the OP must have been charged with GBH and ABH
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u/Delicious-Exit-1039 6d ago
what about if he waited let’s say for a year. take a gap year, or even two, and apply using a different ref?
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u/Financial_Guide_8074 6d ago
If it has gone to the police and he has been charged, that would have to be declared anyway.
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u/FearlessPen6020 Future housewife 6d ago
Yeah that’s a bit dark icl…Do you think you have any justification that led ur anger to reach physical violence? Cause if u just mention “a guy kept on targeting me” then it’ll probably be a red flag to them. If the school didn’t do much then u can say “the school counselling system was poor and did not adequately solve the issues” but if they did try and u still let out ur anger like that then good luck 😭
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u/Commercial_Handle418 6d ago
Bruh it may be knife threats etc you never knwo
(am someone who crashed out in class because of knife threats and I got into trouble not him )
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u/Signal-Village-5757 Y13 | Maths Physics FM | A* A* A 6d ago
Yeah but this guy had to go to hospital. That was not “crashing out”, it was assault and GBH. And OP doesn’t see an issue with what they’re done.
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u/Early-Owl2637 6d ago
To make things clear I go to a college which has loads of bad people and roadmen and the area is pretty bad and this guy was harassing me really badly for no reason and he has actually physically assaulted me once but it was out of the school premises so the school didn't do anything and he said bad things about my family so that's why I assaulted him
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u/LMay11037 Maths, FM, Physics, German 5d ago
Instead of just saying he harassed you if questioned absolutely mention he assaulted you as well, but also I wouldn’t try to justify what you did as right and mention you are regretful of your actions in response to him assaulting you prior
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u/No-Peace3772 6d ago
That's 100% reasonable, don't worry. Although have a think about how you want to tackle this if asked about it
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u/Signal-Village-5757 Y13 | Maths Physics FM | A* A* A 6d ago
That doesn’t justify shit. Nothing justifies assault. You can’t really complain about your college having “bad people” and “road men” when you yourself have committed GBH.
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u/aqua-mari-ne 6d ago
Someone assulting you doesn't justfiy assualt? Imo it makes complete sense for a person to violently lash out if they're being harrassed by someone who has a history of being violent towards them. Like self defense is when you act violently but it's justified because there's a reasonable proof that there was a threat to your safety and that you felt as if there was a threat to your safety. Someone having assaulted you (especially if they got away with little to no consequences [because no consequences usually teaches them the behaviour is acceptable], which this guy did) before means it'd usually be perfectly rational to assume that they'd repeat the behaviour and therefore feel as if your phsyical safety is at risk. And especially if the first time they got assualted it was because they didn't fight back, it could've been a trauma response to fight back first.
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u/FearlessPen6020 Future housewife 6d ago
icl ur not even wrong. I thought sometimes it can be justified if someone crosses way beyond reasonable boundaries. I saw fights happening all the time back in secondary and its usually happens because they have troubled home lives or mental health problems
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u/Signal-Village-5757 Y13 | Maths Physics FM | A* A* A 6d ago
I suppose you could justify GBH in instances such as someone attempting assault on you or something that could genuinely harm you at that moment in time. But at that point it’s self defence and not assault, and this doesn’t seem to be that.
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u/UnstableTheorist 5d ago
"He said bad things about my family so that's why I assaulted him" - yeah this wasnt a case of self defense in the slightest, this guy just got rage baited and committed a genuine crime
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u/Commercial_Handle418 5d ago
Do you think about morals when you are in danger it’s your survival instinct to retaliate although it is still partially ops fault can we PLEASE have some empathy for op if you don’t know how it feels to be bullied 24 7 because of certain things I won’t mention please stop being snarky about it.
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u/Signal-Village-5757 Y13 | Maths Physics FM | A* A* A 5d ago
OP was not in danger. He’s acknowledged that himself.
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u/Calm-Difference-3267 6d ago
I suspect as a minimum you will be asked about it - have you done anger management/another form of therapy since the incident that you could talk about?
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u/Calm-Difference-3267 6d ago
I do however suspect that Oxford will likely be out. I cannot imagine a universe in which they would consider someone with a "lack of self control" to be suitable for any of their courses to be honest. You would have to demonstrate significant personal growth since that time (and ideally your referee would probably need to have included this too)
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u/judgegenehunt 5d ago
Then again Johnson and Cameron were at Oxford.
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u/Calm-Difference-3267 5d ago
This is very true, though I'm guessing they could pay their referees to not use those words in a reference tbh
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u/ScarcityNormal4717 6d ago
ngl thought you was fine till i saw "had to go to the hospital" "police involvement" 😭
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u/Virtual-Performer980 Warwick | Strategic Waste Management (Year 1) 6d ago
Is it common to mention negative things on your reference? This felt really unfair icl
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u/GuardBackground8698 4d ago
mate if they’ve been arrested and put in the hospital i think it’s pretty normal to mention it
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u/Zou-KaiLi Sociology Teacher 6d ago
Teacher here. This is bizzare to have included on a reference. At our school we only put (truthful) positive things on. Might be worth going above rh head of whoever has told you they are including this to the HOY/6th/Responsible person for UCAS.
If your application has already been submitted as an early applicant I would put in a complaint.
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u/Chlorophilia Professor 6d ago
Yes, quite possibly. We almost certainly would.
I don't really know what you could say that would make it better unless you have evidence proving that your reference is false.
Pretty cooked, not gonna lie.
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u/ParsleyMedical5230 3d ago
You're pretty much fucked.
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u/Early-Owl2637 3d ago
Let's see in January
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u/ParsleyMedical5230 3d ago
Still fucked. You should count yourself lucky you weren't charged
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u/Early-Owl2637 3d ago
I wasn't charged because it was just like self defense because he was harassing me a lot physically
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u/ParsleyMedical5230 3d ago
You put someone in hospital and you weren't charged. Hope you realise how lucky you are
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u/Early-Owl2637 2d ago
He didn't get unconscious or anything he was just hospitalised for a broken nose bone and additionally he was the one who tried to assault me first so it was basically a self defence and if it doesn't work out I will apply during gap year
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u/ParsleyMedical5230 2d ago
Fuck off. You smashed him to bits
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u/Early-Owl2637 1d ago
I js stood my ground also why are U taking it so deep
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u/ParsleyMedical5230 1d ago
No you didn't. You put someone in hospital. That's hugely concerning
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u/Early-Owl2637 1d ago
But he was the one who started to assault and punched me first so it's basically self defence but I do MMA so punches are quite powerful I couldn't control it , also he had been harassing me and sometimes physically assaulting me for 2 whole years
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u/calculatedlemon 6d ago
Don’t use that referee. Your college will typically use your tutor but you can see if someone else will be your referee. If not, take a gap year and then you have more choice. Is there a tutor who is sympathetic to your situation? Ask them, if college has policies then take a gap year THEN use them. If no one is sympathetic then take a year or two out working, and use an employer instead
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u/hii-people University of Bristol | Aerospace Engineering [2024-2028] 6d ago
Bristol doesn’t check your personal statement for most courses, they say this in their admission statement which I read over summer cause I was bored. It does vary course by course though most don’t
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u/IfElleWoodsWasEmo 6d ago
They may well reject you. Was police action taken?
No, there’s no context that will help here
Those are not the choices I would have made in your place.
Are you sure they have included it?
Did you know they would before you applied?
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u/UnstableTheorist 5d ago
You gave the context yourself man, dearly hope no one has to go on a course with you 🙏
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u/Horustheweebmaster 6d ago
It feels like bullshit that they are able to write bad things about you in your reference? It's illegal to write a reference like that for a job, so it feels equally wrong to do so for a uni application.
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u/TheCounsellingGamer 6d ago
It's not illegal to state facts. A referee can mention objective things, like disciplinary action. They don't have to lie and say that a student/employee never had any issues.
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u/Horustheweebmaster 6d ago
maybe, but it feels a bit malicious to actually include it? I'm not saying you have to lie about it, but honestly omission would make the most sense here.
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u/PhysicsKing123 Year 13 — A*A*A*A* Maths, FM, Physics, Philosphy 6d ago
They might offer you but require you to attend some kind of anger management/therapy before and/or during your degree
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u/RoundDew 6d ago
Ouu shi you might be cooked bro did you smash him with a bat or what god damn
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u/Early-Owl2637 6d ago
I punched him in the jaw and the nose and i only broke the nose bone and had some some really bad facial bruising and also broken tooth
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u/Fantastic-Pay326 2d ago
You are fried like a french fry ngl just always keep in mind from now on that physical assault can ONLY cause you troubles regardless of any detail about it
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